Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 107

The 37DT30 prices are high only due to short supply, because they've been selling pretty well. Places like Provantage have the 32" model for only $760 because there's a bigger supply of them.

If you have a fast camera and a CRT monitor, you're far better off just getting a set at a place with a good return policy and testing the lag yourself. Input lag tests can vary as much as personal preferences.

Yes, the Sony of course is 120Hz actual, all 3D capable TVs are.

Can anybody help me with figuring out the input lag for the new Sony Playstation 3d Display? I'm interested in getting one to use for my computer, but I already have the Samsung PX 2370 which has little to no input lag, but it's 23 inches and not 3d while the Sony is 24 inches and 3d and I hope the off angle viewing is a little better. Anyway a little bit of help figuring out input lag would be awesome if someone knows a link to the information or if someone bought one and can test it out, thanks!

has anyone tested the lag on a LG 47lw5600?

Don't have a CRT monitor unfortunately, and returning stuff is kinda problematic to me and the stores here are not too friendly with return policies. But I'll see what can be worked out.

Not to bump, but I had more info to add.

I've noiced in the reviews and instructions for a game called Rock Smith, that people are are using (told to by the game instructions) RCA cables to reduce audio lag. This makes me think that the hdmi decoding adds lag. Seems opposite of what I would have assumed.

Hello all!

In my post I will be discussing in part, or in whole, the following HDTVs:
LG 55 LW5600
Panasonic Viera 55 GT31
Samsung UN55D6000
Sony Bravia - 55 unknown model, older model with matte screen.
Sony Bravia 55 NX720

My main focus with a new HDTV was to get an LED set with low input lag for gaming. I tested each model for input lag by hooking up my Xbox 360 with Beatles: Rock Band and performed the calibration test 5-7 times on each TV. I know this isn't as accurate a method as the dual-monitor trick, but the average ms delay reading is pretty damn close to accurate.

My HDTV priorities (prior to my adventure):
- Budget under $2k
- Low input lag (until recently, I thought this was represented by the advertised MS response time)
- Picture quality

My HDTV priorities (after my adventure):
- Budget under $2k
- Low input lag
- Picture quality
- Functionality/menu options
- Heat output
- Weight
- Design

I'm an avid gamer. I don't take it too seriously, but I consider myself to be quite skillful when it comes to first-person shooters. Additionally, I edit video, edit photos, and regularly use post-production programs such as Adobe After Effects. I am one of the lucky (perhaps unlucky?) people that has a keen sense of input lag. Also, a single extra black frame in the middle of a single shot in a movie will drive me nuts - despite the majority of people that won't notice it at all. I say this because I want to give you guys an idea of how much the slightest amount of input lag bothers me; and how much I tend to obsess over small details.

It amazes me that manufacturers don't seem to care about or be interested in advertising input lag times. I would imagine that there's a big opportunity for television manufacturers to pull in the majority of gamers by making a TV designed specifically for low input lag gaming. I'm also surprised that there isn't a reliable review site for TVs in the US. The sites I can find don't seem concerned with input lag.

Prior to starting my HDTV purchasing adventure this last week, I had a 32 Samsung LCD for a few years. This had served me well for my purposes, but I never liked how muted the picture looked when I set the TV to Game Mode.
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LG 55LW5600 LED 3D - $1699.99:
I went to Best Buy and looked at TVs. From the appearance, I chose to get the LG 55LW5600. I have never had an interest in 3D from my home television until I saw this model with the passive Cinema 3D. If you want to read a good review of the movie playing abilities of this set, read this review:

(Sorry for the line break here, this is my first post and is prohibiting me from posting a URL)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...9&postcount=25

I agree with pretty much everything that Chad B says about this set; however, he doesn't mention anything about gaming on this TV. If you're looking to buy a TV solely for watching films or TV, this set is the one to choose. It is absolutely astounding, and in my opinion, the 3D from this TV is the best on the market. Anyone unsure about the quality of this TV's 3D capabilities should read this review:
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1301662476

And the corresponding follow-up review of this set's 3D abilities after the LG firmware updates:
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1313938337

Unfortunately for me and any other gamers out there, this TV is horrible when it comes to input lag. Even after sifting through the entire dedicated thread for owners of this TV, trying every suggestion in the book, I couldn't get it to anything less than a 140ms delay. Needless to say, this is completely unusable for any game in the world that requires the least amount of timing.

LG 55LW5600 RESULT:
Average input lag: 135-140ms, even Game Mode or PC mode.

OPINION:
If you want to buy a TV just for watching movies, buy this set right now. There is even a nation-wide bundle that gives you an Xbox 360, 3D glasses and Halo: Anniversary. Unfortunately, you'll have to use the Xbox on a different TV or simply sell it.
If 3D is what you'd want, you'll need to get a standalone Blu-Ray player, as PS3s have an issue with this set, where they show 3 lines of discolored pixels horizontally across the sreen. (This issue is only present when playing a 3D BR on a PS3 hooked to this TV.)
Remote control was ridiculously frustrating to use. Poor design and felt awkward in my hand. (Yes, that's what she said.)
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Panasonic Viera GT31 Pasma 3D - $1799.99:
I returned the LG to Best Buy and told the employees of my situation. They all unanimously informed me that I was a complete moron, telling me that LEDs can't have low input lag and that the only kind of TV that would work for gaming is plasma TVs. I've always hated the way that plasma TVs look, but decided I would give one a try and got the one they said was the best seller.

This TV disappointed me in so many ways:
- Any time there was movement on the screen, there would be a pixelated/fuzzy snow look to the details of the image - especially in video games.
- Any white on the screen was accompanied by major ghosting to the sides of the image.
- If there was any bit of white/brightness on the screen, the panel itself would make a buzzing noise.
- The TV emanated too much heat. I had to open my window to get some winter air into my room.
- The 3D had so much cross talk that I felt my eyes were trying to go cross-eyed.
- Deceptively heavy.
- TV mount didn't swivel at all.
- Remote lit up, but it was big and bulky.
- WiFi adapter was too big to fit in the optimal USB slot.
- Navigating the menus was a chore.
- Couldn't use this with my PC, as it would insist on scaling up the image, despite me setting it manually. Additionally, it kept getting fuzzy and then would get clear again. The only way to stop this from happening was to enable the THX mode, which made the screen too dim to use.
- This TV literally made me sick. Even when not in 3D mode, I got headaches and felt like throwing up.

The input lag on this was better than the LG, but I could still sense it was more than my 32 Samsung LCD. My tests put the input lag at an average of 30-37ms. For some people, such as my brother-in-law, this won't be a problem (he couldn't even tell). But for the price, I feel like this TV is a bit of a rip-off.

Panasonic Viera 55 GT31 RESULT:
Average input lag: 30-35ms, despite my research online and all modes.

OPINION:
This set has some of the worse picture quality I have seen in a larger HDTV. The bright parts of the screen completely washed out the dark portions, or the TV would crush detail from the darks. This completely surprised me, because even on this site, people rate it fairly well. But overall, the image was too dark. I had to close my curtains just to see what I was watching. For the money, this TV isn't worth it. This TV is too dark. The picture quality is laughable, especially with video games. The input lag was very noticeable to me. Reloading in Gears of Wars was tough. Trying to sprint around corners in CoD: MW3 was difficult, let alone attempting to aim accurately from a distance.
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Samsung UN55D6000 LED - $1499.99:
I returned the GT31 to Best Buy and trotted off to RC Willey, a local home furnishings store in the Mid-West. They agreed to let me bring my Xbox 360 into the store and test out different models of TVs to help me make a decision (something Best Buy wouldn't let me do).

As most Samsung TVs do, this set's design was cool. I felt like purchasing this TV before I even turned it on (although, I didn't end up with this one). It lacks the 3D capabilities, but I don't care because LG's passive 3D is the only one I like. I popped this TV to Game Mode and got amazing results; however, the Game Mode does the same thing that my 32 Samsung LCD - mutes all of the colors.

The input lag averaged 5-9ms! I tried CoD: MW3, Gears of War, and Skyrim. The input lag on this TV is virtually non-existent. This TV felt the most true of any TVs I had tried so far. But the muted color was a bit annoying to me.

Samsung UN55D6000 RESULTS:
Average video input lag: 5-9ms in Game Mode.
Average audio input lag: 60-65ms in Game Mode - best to use a home audio system.
This was the only set that I experienced a noticeable gap between audio and video input lag.

Opinion:
This TV played games perfectly. Unfortunately, my deciding factor was the picture quality. Obviously its LED screen was bright enough, but everything just looked lifeless in Game Mode. Additionally, when in Game Mode, you're unable to adjust any color/display settings. This TV also lacks local dimming, which I hadn't considered as a potential deciding factor, but ended up playing a major role as it made a huge difference when playing CoD: MW3 & Skyrim.
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Sony Bravia - 55 unknown model, older model with matte screen:
I tested two Sony Bravia models. I apologize for not remembering the model of this one, but it had a price point of $1499.99.

Sony Bravia - 55 unknown model RESULT:
Average input lag: 5-11ms in Game-Original Mode.

OPINION:
This TV's matte screen served one purpose, to reduce the vivid nature of the colors displayed on its screen. I typically favor a matte finish, but looking at this TV next to the NX 720 or the Samsung made me realize just how much of a disservice it was for this set.
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Sony Bravia 55 NX720 LED 3D - $1998.99:
This is the TV that I decided to keep. It was a bit more expensive than the Samsung UN55D6000 and the other Sony (unknown model), but when comparing the quality of the image to the other two TVs, this is far superior.

The average time for input lag matched the unknown Sony model, but the NX720 TV had a few more features that the others didn't.

The deciding factor for me between the NX720 and the Samsung D6000 was the glossy finish, which the salesman referred to as gorilla glass or gorilla gloss (then rapped on the screen with his knuckle - not sure why though). I actually like this finish more than the alternative matte finishes. I never thought I would like a gloss finish, but this one seems different. The blacks and colors are much more clear and vibrant than the other TVs. Additionally, when the TV is powered off, the entire front of the unit is a sleek, shiny black front with no visible border - which makes for a very cool looking TV. That said, if you're going to have a window opposite the front of the screen, the reflection may be a bit overbearing. In my opinion, screen actually reflects less light than the matte finish, in the sense that it doesn't blow out the reflection and diffuse the light to make an even bigger reflection area.

The screen is brilliantly bright. I don't feel like I'm squinting or straining to register the images. I don't have to keep my room completely dark either, which means I can now see which buttons I'm hitting on my remote control.

I also love the settings options with this TV. It actually has two different Game Modes: Standard and Original. Both of these modes still allow you to have full control over most settings such as color, contrast, sharpness, etc This results in a better looking image, while maintaining low input lag. I love the ability to have this much control.

I have my PC connected to this TV via HDMI. For this input I have the TV set to auto-detect for the video mode. The great thing about this is that it is displaying my desktop image at the perfect ratio with perfect clarity, unlike the LG LW5600 and the Panasonic Viera GT31. Additionally, when I watch videos in full screen, the TV detects the change and adjusts its settings to make the video look amazing. This results in 1080p rips of Blu-Ray films playing almost as well as they would straight from the Blu-Ray player.

The 3D on this TV is much better than the Panasonic Viera GT31, but nowhere close to the quality of the LG LW5600. But 3D isn't why I'm purchasing a TV. I'm using it mainly for games.

A few other pros:
- Processed local dimming. Enabling this feature only added 1-3ms delay and helped to increase image quality when displaying brights and darks at the same time in Skyrim and CoD: MW3.
- The system menus are very likeable, after you learn where everything is.
- Very comfortable, attractive and non-intimidating remote control.
- Built-in WiFi adapter.
- Ability to turn off the glowing SONY logo at the base of the front panel.
- Doesn't run hot, even after five hours of gaming.
- Swivel base.
- Very fluid PiP and P&P modes - I haven't tested for lag while using either of these modes.
- Mute notification hides after a few seconds
- Smart apps, including Netflix, Hulu, and a built-in web browser. (I've only tested Netflix so far.)
- Lots of extras that I haven't checked out yet, like a camera/sensor to tell you if you're sitting too close to the screen crazy stuff.

Cons:
- Gorilla gloss screen may be a bit reflective for some, but it really does make everything more vibrant. I suggest going to a show room and comparing it with other sets.
- Had to sign up on a Sony website and register to get Netflix working. This was a bit obnoxious.
- 3D isn't perfect, but is better than most active 3D sets I have seen (Which has only been the GT31 and the other models on display at stores.)

Sony Bravia 55 NX720 LED 3D RESULTS:
Average input lag: 5-10ms in Game-Original Mode.
Average input lag: 6-11ms in Game-Standard Mode.
Average input lag with the local dimming feature enabled: added 1-3ms to the above modes.

OPINION:
I'm struggling to find negative things to say about this TV. I'm absolutely in love with it. I spent a few hours last night playing CoD: MW3 and Halo CE: Anniversary and all I can say is that I don't regret this decision in the slightest. The picture quality is amazing. The only downside is that I can no longer blame deaths in CoD: MW3 on input lag!

I hope this wasn't too much information to throw at you guys and I really do hope that this helps someone out with making a decision about which HDTV to purchase.

Thanks guys!

**As stated above, I paid $1989.99 for this TV. I feel the difference in picture quality - without sacrificing input lag - justifies the price difference between this and the two prior TVs listed. Also, the salesman let me know that on black Friday, this TV is going to be discounted over $300.00 and that I just have to bring in my receipt that weekend to get the difference in price refunded to me! If you have an RC Willey store in your area and are considering this TV, I say go grab it now and beat the rush. In fact, most stores have price-match guarantees. May as well guarantee your purchase by getting it now, and then get savings next week.**

Outstanding summary. You weren't clear on your lag testing methodology, but in any case, it serves to show relative differences between sets. (though the Panasonic plasma lag seems high??) A lot of what you said here lines up with many of my own conclusions about the larger sets this year.

I'll be doing some comparisons myself in the next couple weeks. Sony HX, NX and EX! I'll have all three models (not the 929!) available to me. I may even be able to get my hands on a Sharp 835u set, which I'm extremely curious about.. not a lot of feedback that I can find on Sharp sets. The blue trailing (overdrive) issue concerns me though.

Again thanks for your writeup, very helpful!

So I have a Sony KDL32EX723 on hand. If anyone could tell me the proper way to test this thing for input lag to get the most accurate results (I hear different things from different people and don't know if there's a preferred way nowadays -- the OP was last updated a year and a half ago), I'd greatly appreciate it.

The Sony 60" NX720 has 40ms of lag, DEFINITELY not 6-11ms. I don't even know of any LCD model 55" and above with lag that low.

I must admit though, I tested on Game Standard mode only. I didn't realize there was a Game Original mode. I tweaked the settings of it right now to match my G.S. setup and the image looks the same to me. I'll try to test it soon to see if there is a noticeable difference in lag.

I think the information in the OP is still correct regarding how to take input lag measurements.

I'd love to see an actual owner of EX720/723/725 give accurate input lag times. So far I've only read promising things about the input lag performance of this TV. I've almost decided for the price range (in EU) this is currently the best TV for gaming (in the 37 to 46 inch range) for 2011. The 3D performance is pretty bad but who cares for 3D in 40 inch TVs. I only need great Picture quality + input lag

A herculean effort no doubt but those input lag tests and results are flawed.

There are still plenty of tidbits of info on those TV sets though, you just have to take the input lag measurements with a nugget of salt.

Is there any way to drive the LCD at its native resolution and still run these input lag tests? I think I'd need a CRT that supports 1080p but those are rare and expensive, right?

Edit: Preliminarily, I'm getting roughly 35 ms input lag on average on the KDL32EX720 at 720p in Game mode. It's definitely noticeable when moving my cursor around on the TV; it feels "drunk". I'll try to do more tests using as many different cloning and splitting setups and video card and TV settings as I can stomach, and I'll report back with fuller results when I'm satisfied.

This has the best lag guys.
Panasonic VIERA TC-L32E3 32-Inch 1080p 60 Hz LED HDTV

it has a 10ms on 1080p

Shredpirate of the forum posted the test results in this link below here for this tv.
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php....55593/page-71


here is the test guys. Even at 1080p and no gamemode enable it get this low input lag result.

This is 2011 best tv to get for street fighter gamers who need 0 frame lag. It is an LED as well.


2010 best low input lag model was this tv below.
Panasonic TC-L32X - 8ms response time on input lag.

*note input lag and response time is not the same. When someone says 8ms input lag it for input lag. If they refer to response time it not counting input lag.

If anyone disagrees with me about this tv please voice out about it.

Hmmm, his camera's shutter speed is on a bad setting so we can't see his results clearly.

Interesting, not a single review of this TV has any site mentioned that it feels "drunk" or laggy. In fact they've mentioned quite the opposite (21ms lag on hdtvtest.co.uk EX723), so I'm wondering how exactly you're doing your tests.

Does anyone know the input lag on a Samsung UN60D7000 ?


Thanks!

I've got a desktop computer with this AMD Radeon HD 5770. It has two DVI ports, an HDMI port, and a DisplayPort... port... all on the back of the video card. I have these hooked up:

(top) DVI->DVI - HP zr24w LCD monitor
HDMI->HDMI - Sony KDL32EX720 LCD television
(bottom) DVI->VGA adapter->VGA - Princeton Ultra 72F CRT monitor

As far as the TV tests go, in Catalyst Control Center I cloned the image over the CRT monitor and the LCD television at 1280 x 720. The LCD monitor was disabled. I opened up this page in Chrome and clicked Start: http://tft.vanity.dk/inputlag.html

My camera is set to 1/125 shutter speed. I calculated that rough average of ~35 ms that I gave from 16 pictures. After taking the pictures, I went through them on my PC and judged how many frames behind the CRT monitor that the LCD television was. In cases where I could just barely see a new frame coming in on the LCD television, I made some rough estimates about how far it was behind the CRT, like 2.75 frames or 1.25 frames, or something like that. This is my list of frames behind the CRT in all 16 pictures:

2
1
0
2
2.75
2
3.5
1.75
3
1
2
3
1.25
3
3
2

So about 35 ms average. I want to run more tests anyway. I'm looking to get a VGA splitter to try it like that, and I'm looking for a different non-Flash-based timer to try as well.

EDIT: I just ran some more tests with the exact same setup, but this time using this tool and setting my camera shutter speed to 1/320: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/respons...p#input_lag_fr

I like this one better because it actually outputs frame numbers (0-59) making the calculation much easier. Here is how many frames behind the CRT that the KDL32EX720 TV was:

3, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 2, 4, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 2, 3

For an average of 2.8 frames, or 46.67 ms. Remember this is the TV upscaling 720p (which I might add is set to the "+1" screen size setting so as to show no overscan).

Update on Sony TV's.

I can say without a doubt the Sony HX sets WILL display full 4:4:4 color, no subsampling. Not only that but it doesn't matter what resolution it's displaying. I'm looking at a 55HX729 right now. Looks picture perfect. Suspect the NX, and EX models will do this as well. I'll be able to test for sure in a couple days.

Yep, the EX720/723/725 also do 4:4:4 color no subsampling.


How does it fare without upscaling? i.e. in it's native 1080p resolution? BTW, many thanks for testing this!

I'd love to test it in 1080p but I can't figure out a way to do so. I'd basically need a CRT capable of a 1080p input, right?

And that's not far off my guess of 30-40ms at best. In fact factoring in the scaling, it might have been closer to a 35ms overall average. Sony's have great PQ, but I think many are engaging in wishful thinking on the input lag.

As for the TC-L32E3, IMO the 32U3 is a much better deal, and should have very close to the same input lag since it's only difference is CCFL lighting vs LED.

Yeah, I only bought the EX723 because of the ridiculously low input lag (for a Sony) of 21 ms that HDTVtest.co.uk reported. Seems like it was too good to be true, though (or maybe only applies to the 40" UK version).

So what's the input lag like on the TC-L32E3 or U3?

Did you have the picture mode set to "game-original" or "game-standard"?

what are you talking about? TC-L32E3 has 0 input lag. how are you comparing it to that 32U3 it has crazy high input lag. so what if its only difference is CCFL vs LED. Read what i wrote it has 0 input lag on gamemode in 720p which is the standard for todays consoles. it also support 1080p and it has almost 0 input lag on 1080p

TC-L32E3 is the only tv in 2011 that produces this result.

Game: Original.


There's no TV that has 0 ms input lag, and if there is, it's certainly not going to be in a consumer-oriented mass marketed device.


EDIT: The Logam.nl test that I linked before is in JavaScript, so I was able to take the source code (my thanks to Han-Kwang Nienhuys of Lagom.nl for this) and implement a version that draws two timers that are synced with each other, and that places the two timers in a horizontal row, one on the left of the browser window and one on the right. Then I can extend my desktop over two monitors/TVs, and place a browser window running the timers such that one half of the browser window (i.e., one timer) is on one monitor (the CRT), and the other half of the browser window (the other timer) is on the other monitor (the LCD TV). Then I can start the timers, which are synced with each other, and therefore test the input lag of the TV at its native resolution and while still keeping the CRT at a resolution that it supports, like 1024 x 768.

So with this process, my findings were that the input lag for the KDL32EX720 was roughly 40 ms at 1080p. It's not a good TV for gaming.

This is my mistake it is not 0 input lag, it has a result of sub 1 frame input lag. that means the lag is not even noticeable. TC-L32E3 this tv input lags at 10ms - 30ms at 1080p with game mode off. Why are you interested in that sony if this has better input lag results.

I'm interested in the Sony because, well, I bought it. That said, I am also now thinking of picking up that TC-L32E3 sometime and testing it myself.

The problem with the test you linked was that the poster's camera shutter speed was too slow, so the results are virtually unreadable. He also seems to have only taken three pictures, which is not nearly enough to get a good value for the average input lag.

If you've got the TC-L32E3, though, I think we'd all really appreciate it if you could run some good tests on it.

How did hdtvtest.co.uk come up with 21ms as the input lag. Stupid site. Anyway, I'll test it out for myself soon, I don't expect it to be unplayable lag. I read about a dozen technical reviews of this TV including German and other non-english sites, none of them mention such a high input lag. Weird.

I really doubt they would botch up input lags that badly. They have tested many TVs with both high and low input lag. Usually when that test gets botched up anyway it usually ends up with HIGHER lag than it should. How its possible that a mistake is faster than the real thing. *edit* unless of course something happens that adds lag to the CRT. But what could possibly do that.

It might be that input lag varies between sizes. Maybe between firmwares too? Hopefully its not the size because I have 32" model coming next thursday and HDTVtests review, including their input lag test, was one that influenced me to buy it.

Question. Can't you enable GPU scaling with no stretching (1:1, black borders and all)? Atleast Nvidia cards can do it. From what I know this should avoid the lag caused by the TVs scaler, so you can run it in resolutiongs that CRT can understand and do the normal non-browser based stopwatch test.