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Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 126

post #3751 of 4189
The 50" Toshiba 50L2200U is going on sale a few places for Black Friday. Does anyone have any experience with it in regards to input lag? It doesn't seem to have problems anywhere else. I think I've read good things about the 40L2200U, but didn't know if this was just a larger version of the same TV or something all its own. The only downside I suppose is that it isn't 120Hz, but I'm not sure how important that truly is.
Edited by PogueSquadron - 11/13/12 at 8:25pm
post #3752 of 4189
Did a few tests for 40EH6030 yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQFwjFy43EM&feature=g-upl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdljqeXWspk&feature=g-upl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yWImbWPzWI&feature=g-upl

TV should be ok for 30fps games, too much lag for FG.
post #3753 of 4189
I had the idea tonight that the Wii U may allow for easy lag tests in lieu of a two monitor/clone mode setup. I used the input lag test at lagom and compared my LG 37cs560 to the gamepad:


Every photo of the 18 I took showed the same time, although a few had a slightly higher amount of ghosting in the numbers as the frames changed on the pad vs the TV. It's not clear how much display lag the gamepad has, but according to Nintendo its total time is less than 1/60th of a second. That would put this test in the 1 frame range, definitely under 2. Can anyone think of a reason why a lag test like this wouldn't be legitimate? Unless lagom's test is screwy, I think this may be a really convenient new way to test sets for input lag.
post #3754 of 4189
That's great to know that the Wii U has easy input lag! And I think it's amazing how that set you use practically has none! We're the numbers moving when you took that picture? And how was lag with the Wii (if you used one)?
post #3755 of 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by romulux View Post

I had the idea tonight that the Wii U may allow for easy lag tests in lieu of a two monitor/clone mode setup. I used the input lag test at lagom and compared my LG 37cs560 to the gamepad:

Every photo of the 18 I took showed the same time, although a few had a slightly higher amount of ghosting in the numbers as the frames changed on the pad vs the TV. It's not clear how much display lag the gamepad has, but according to Nintendo its total time is less than 1/60th of a second. That would put this test in the 1 frame range, definitely under 2. Can anyone think of a reason why a lag test like this wouldn't be legitimate? Unless lagom's test is screwy, I think this may be a really convenient new way to test sets for input lag.

That's actually not a bad idea, assuming that Nintendo's measurement of the Gamepad's lag is accurate (or if you can find anywhere online that has more accurate testing of the Gamepad's lag).
post #3756 of 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssetta View Post

That's great to know that the Wii U has easy input lag! And I think it's amazing how that set you use practically has none! We're the numbers moving when you took that picture? And how was lag with the Wii (if you used one)?

of course the numbers were moving! i was surprised that it synced up that well, i expected the CS560 to have 1 extra frame of lag in some of the shots. according to the tests here, most recent LGs in this price range test between the upper teens-mid twenty milliseconds range, this test seems to confirm that.

I've used a wii in 480p since the CS560 came out this spring and never had lag problems, but upscaling 480 to 1080 probably would have created more lag than i'm getting with the Wii U at 1080p. what's nice is that the Wii U upscales Wii and virtual console games to 1080, so every game benefits from less processing.



As far as the gamepad lag goes, that would actually be really easy to test. all i'd have to do is just hook the wii u up to a CRT and do the test again. i don't really want to move the system or lug an old TV around right now, but maybe in a day or two i'll try it. does anyone know of any other online lag tests I could use? i trust that lagom's test is fine, but it'd be nice to corroborate it with another. the only other browser test i found required flash and the Wii U couldn't load it.
post #3757 of 4189
hey guys!

It's been 2 years since i posted and im back again in search of the perfect 42 inch PC gaming tv.

I still have my lg 42ld450 and it has been PERFECT. Of course i have to modify my nvidia drivers with he EDID code every time a new driver comes out but im ok with that. I am now building a mame cabinet and i wanted to use the same tv since i knew how well this tv works with input lag and resolution and the whole 9 yards however it is impossible to find now.

So my question is.. is there a 42" tv that is currently available in stores that can compare with the lg 42ld450 as a computer monitor?
post #3758 of 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by romulux View Post

of course the numbers were moving! i was surprised that it synced up that well, i expected the CS560 to have 1 extra frame of lag in some of the shots. according to the tests here, most recent LGs in this price range test between the upper teens-mid twenty milliseconds range, this test seems to confirm that.
I've used a wii in 480p since the CS560 came out this spring and never had lag problems, but upscaling 480 to 1080 probably would have created more lag than i'm getting with the Wii U at 1080p. what's nice is that the Wii U upscales Wii and virtual console games to 1080, so every game benefits from less processing.
As far as the gamepad lag goes, that would actually be really easy to test. all i'd have to do is just hook the wii u up to a CRT and do the test again. i don't really want to move the system or lug an old TV around right now, but maybe in a day or two i'll try it. does anyone know of any other online lag tests I could use? i trust that lagom's test is fine, but it'd be nice to corroborate it with another. the only other browser test i found required flash and the Wii U couldn't load it.

Does your TV actually say it's running at 1080p when playing Wii/VC games? As far as I know, any legacy game you play is hardware emulated - the WiiU essentially acts like it's a Wii (much like the Wii would act like a Gamecube when playing a Gamecube game). If that's true, then it should probably still be outputting 480p (but over HDMI instead of component).
post #3759 of 4189
^The input is listed as 1080p, and as further proof I can also use just scan mode (just scan isn't available for 480p on the CS560). someone on gamefaqs got some screencaps from guitar hero on Wii at 480p and Wii U at 720p that confirm the difference. the games are still rendered at 480p, though. they're just upscaled, not up-rez'ed.
post #3760 of 4189
I was an owner of last years 42" LG LK450 60hz 1080p LCD and the 37" LG LD450 the year before that. They were both VA Panels,
and DID 1 frame via component. i also have an HDMI lag free Adapter for the Wii and HDMI was in the 3 frame territory and My PS3 via hdmi in comparison
to component was also worse. The difference was pretty shocking. Most people perform their lag test using HDMI and HDMI typically yields more input lag
than component.

@Romulux
have you tried setting the WiiU up with a pair of Wii Component cables? The set you have is basically the
bottom line 60hz 1080p replacement model of the LK450, so i suspect they perform identicle. I would of kept the
set but the lousy black levels and motion smearing eventually got to me. As for the Wii U game pad, does the input
lag only hold true to the actual lag on the game pad's screen? or is this an additional 1 frame added on top of the
HDTV's present input lag? if so....that's seriously gotta suck!

I'm about to get a 60" S30 1080p 2011 Panasonic Plasma(Known to do 1-2 frames, the 1 frame is most likely through component)
in a few days, THEN i'll unbox my Wii U. It's a shame that the Panny's 2012 panasonic lineup are all pushing past 2 frames or more, i'd
know since i also own the Panasonic 2012 720p X5. :P

I was thinking of getting a smaller LCD on the side for kicks(possibly a 32" or 37") and the LG PS460 or PS560 is basically the only
option unless i can find the Panasonic 2009 X1(does 1.5ms of lag through component and 6ms through hdmi) while the 'S1'
does a little less than 1 frame. They're IPS-ALpha panels so the viewing angles, black levels and motion handeling are top notch in comparison
to a VA panel and blah blah. XP
post #3761 of 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojan Ilic View Post

Did a few tests for 40EH6030 yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQFwjFy43EM&feature=g-upl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdljqeXWspk&feature=g-upl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yWImbWPzWI&feature=g-upl
TV should be ok for 30fps games, too much lag for FG.

Somebody I know just bought the Samsung 40" 1080p LED 120hz E6000 and said he feels no lag. I hate it when people say that because
it means jack sh**. "I feel no lag" Ya that's great....You feel no lag compared to what?" You need to have a lag free CRT Tube tv by your side so you can actually compare the sets performance wise and see for yourself.
post #3762 of 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuker43 View Post

hey guys!
It's been 2 years since i posted and im back again in search of the perfect 42 inch PC gaming tv.
I still have my lg 42ld450 and it has been PERFECT. Of course i have to modify my nvidia drivers with he EDID code every time a new driver comes out but im ok with that. I am now building a mame cabinet and i wanted to use the same tv since i knew how well this tv works with input lag and resolution and the whole 9 yards however it is impossible to find now.
So my question is.. is there a 42" tv that is currently available in stores that can compare with the lg 42ld450 as a computer monitor?

Yes, the Philips 40PFL5507 has an input lag of 17ms and 4:4:4 chroma subsampling.
post #3763 of 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruudboek View Post

Yes, the Philips 40PFL5507 has an input lag of 17ms and 4:4:4 chroma subsampling.

hrmm.. nice any links where to buy?
post #3764 of 4189
It is only available in europe, where do you live?
post #3765 of 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

As for the Wii U game pad, does the input
lag only hold true to the actual lag on the game pad's screen? or is this an additional 1 frame added on top of the
HDTV's present input lag? if so....that's seriously gotta suck!

The gamepad's input lag is totally independent of the HDTV's lag.

I got my results, and they actually seem to suggest that the 1/60th second figure is just the signal's response time, not the screen response time. The photos are bad (it is not easy to photograph an interlaced screen!) but they suggest that the gamepad screen lag is between 1-2 frames. The most common result was 33ms of delay, but again, because of the interlacing it's hard to tell precisely. Sometimes the two had the same time, but the CRT was always in the middle of refreshing the frame at that point, so the TV and gamepad never displayed the same frame for long.



As you can see, the time is the same in this one but just barely. The CRT screen is already starting to display the next frame.





This last one shows some frame rate issues, so take it as you want.

Overall I'm a little disappointed that the gamepad isn't faster, but that does explain why it matched my LG so well- both of them are in the same lag range of 16-32ms. Even if that is higher than I was expecting, two frames is still too low for even the most skilled gamers to notice, so it's no big deal. Then again, without using a progressive CRT monitor, this test isn't worth much. If anyone has a CRT that accepts HDMI then they could figure it out for sure.
Edited by romulux - 11/21/12 at 3:21pm
post #3766 of 4189
That is pretty reassuring though - the Gamepad really isn't unlike any lag you would get from playing on an LCD TV. Considering that it has the video transferred from the system wirelessly...I dunno, I think that's pretty nuts.


I have a TV update as well. On a whim I went out and picked up a Toshiba 50L2200U. Yes, it's going for sale for $299 at Sears as a Doorbuster, and it's going for $399 on Best Buy on Friday morning, but honestly, I'm not interested in either a.) Missing Thanksgiving, or b.) Staying up until 4am and hope that I can get the TV online.

SO, I picked it up at BB for $549 ($539 after my BB Reward Certificate). Input lag wise? I'm very happy. I did a quick test with my computer monitor, which I always thought had awesome input lag. It is an HP
LP2475W IPS monitor. I've never had any problems with its input lag and it seemed snappy.

The Toshiba was actually clocking in at about the same, sometimes 15ms faster than my monitor. Games in generally feel snappier than they did on my 26" Insignia. Halo 4 felt more responsive, and I hopped into Super Mario Bros. 3 on Virtual Console without a hitch. I'm very happy with this TV on the input lag side of things, and I think I feel confident recommending it to anyone looking for a low lag LCD.

I can provide pics if anyone wants, but keep in mind it would only be a comparison with my 24" HP LP2475W monitor. It wouldn't be the most accurate test but it's the best I can do.
post #3767 of 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Somebody I know just bought the Samsung 40" 1080p LED 120hz E6000 and said he feels no lag. I hate it when people say that because
it means jack sh**. "I feel no lag" Ya that's great....You feel no lag compared to what?" You need to have a lag free CRT Tube tv by your side so you can actually compare the sets performance wise and see for yourself.

I don't really feel lag while playing majority of ps3/xbox360 games.
But I can feel it while playing SF and Tekken, as I played them for years.
post #3768 of 4189
For you Euros looking at the Phillips 40PFL5507, beware the bait and switch when it comes to the panel.
post #3769 of 4189
I'm back again, making my annual trip to this forum to see what the hot 37 and 40 and 42 sets are.

I had hoped LG would have made a 37" version of their 42" Passive 3D sets, when set to PC mode on the correct input I was getting perfectly acceptable mouse-movement on my pc, with no perceivable lag and to me, the mouse movement test is the money shot. Can I whip that mouse around and feel no lag at all?
If so, keep set.

Problem was the 42" was just too big for my desk.....37" is perfect, and 40" is probably too big........

Panasonic makes the 37", which means a fast good-for-a-pc-monitor display....but thats kind of where the benefits end.....being able to have passive 3D, or having a super small bezel or a thin depth all come into play when using a display as a desk monitor.

Anyone with a suggestion other than the Panny 37" LED's?

If LG made a 37" version of their passive sets I think I'd go with one of those....but its 32 and 42...42 is too big and 32...well..I'd like to not have to downsize if I dont have to.

Anyone have a suggestion? Its great to see this thread getting down into the atomicity of this input lag issue.....
post #3770 of 4189
Eurogamer tested the Wii U gamepad and came up with the same 2 frame figure that I did above, so it seems like it may be a safe estimate. If anyone wants to use the Wii U to test their own set, remember to add 2 frames to whatever the difference you measured was and you'll have a good measure of your HDTVs lag.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-gamepad-latency-analysis
post #3771 of 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

I was an owner of last years 42" LG LK450 60hz 1080p LCD and the 37" LG LD450 the year before that. They were both VA Panels,
and DID 1 frame via component. i also have an HDMI lag free Adapter for the Wii and HDMI was in the 3 frame territory and My PS3 via hdmi in comparison
to component was also worse. The difference was pretty shocking. Most people perform their lag test using HDMI and HDMI typically yields more input lag
than component.

So using your theory, if I use component video cables with my PS3 instead of the HDMI cord in use currently, I should notice lower input lag then? My current LCD TV is not an LG though, in case that matters.
post #3772 of 4189
A general question r.e. input lag if I may.

If I connect directly to the panel rather than running through my reciever, would I see a reduction in overall input lag ? I have a VT50 and run my Xbox360 through the receiver ATM (all HDMI) and I'm sure I detect a difference vs m old Kuro where everything was connected direct to the panel.

1000
post #3773 of 4189
Quote:
i also have an HDMI lag free Adapter for the Wii
Quote:
So using your theory, if I use component video cables with my PS3 instead of the HDMI cord in use currently, I should notice lower input lag then? My current LCD TV is not an LG though, in case that matters.
No, that theory is not correct as it sees the cause in the used cable.

There may be a difference but this difference does not depend on the cable used, it depends on the presets inside the TV / monitor!
Analog signals (like component video) are most likely treated differently than a high quality digital signal from an HDMI source.
The manufacturer has to guess what is most likely used on these ports and how to get the best quality from the given data on the screen. Component video: Some crappy self made cam pictures from your last BBQ, maybe a DVD. Quality-loss by analog connection included (the conversion from digital YCbCr to analog YPbPr is said to be lossless but the cable itself will do the rest). Necessary to improve that imagequality? Nope, nothing to rescue here so just a plain output.
BUT: These analog signals have to be converted to digital signals before they can be displayed on a flat panel display! Don't forget that. This conversion is a non-issue for todays hardware. It can be done on the fly...
HDMI-input: It's most likely a HD-Source at the other end. Most likely something like a HD receiver, BD-Player, etc. So everything that may further improve the image quality will be used.

Some monitors and TV-Sets allow to adjust all settings in the depth of the menus to get rid of all the eye-candy that consumes some time, others don't.
But there is nothing like a "lag free adapter". No cable adds a lag. It's just the way the monitor or TV handles the signal.

Quote:
If I connect directly to the panel rather than running through my reciever, would I see a reduction in overall input lag ?
That might be possible. It depends on the simple fact if your receiver just connects the input to the output or if it does some buffering or signal manipulation.
post #3774 of 4189
The receiver is set to "direct" so there is no processing, at least, on paper but the buffer you mentioned may still be at play.
post #3775 of 4189
I'm looking for a currently available flat screen tv with the lowest HDMI input lag that I can get for around $300. I've read some post that recommended tvs no longer available. I see that Panasonic no longer uses ips alpha and i think I read somewhere that LGs are a lottery if you get one with a W in the serial #. Any way, it will be used as a tv (so monitor is out) and PS3. Thanks.
post #3776 of 4189
Please help with gaming tv!

''32, 1080p, no blurring, no ghosting, low lag (16ms or low)
And please what ms lag on PANASONIC VIERA TX-LR32E5 and PHILIPS 32PFL3517T ?

Thanks for any help
post #3777 of 4189
Eurogamer claims 33ms input lag on the WiiU, though their method seems less than perfect...

I didn't think about using the browser to run tests, but did a couple snapshots w/ Mario's Boost Mode which showed it being ~1 frame ahead of my 47LH90 and 1 frame behind Dell U2412M. I swear I've read here that the 47LH90 is better than that, but I guess I can blame the monitor now for why I started to get so awful at CoD once I started playing on HDTV.

Are large format displays still the only choice for real low-lag big-screen gaming (55"+)?
Edited by muumuu - 12/10/12 at 10:07am
post #3778 of 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfs101 View Post

Please help with gaming tv!
''32, 1080p, no blurring, no ghosting, low lag (16ms or low)

Thanks for any help
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mm-08 View Post

I'm looking for a currently available flat screen tv with the lowest HDMI input lag that I can get for around $300. I see that Panasonic no longer uses ips alpha and i think I read somewhere that LGs are a lottery if you get one with a W in the serial #.

The 37cs560 I have is a great gaming TV. As I posted above, it's just as fast as the Wii U gamepad, between 1-2 frames of lag. There's very slight blur but it's not reasonable to expect any less blur from an LCD of any sort. My only problem is that the black levels aren't great, but the colors are perfect. I ordered one of the very first available and got an IPS panel, I'm not sure what the serial code trick is this year but I know it's in the cs560 thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000 View Post

If I connect directly to the panel rather than running through my reciever, would I see a reduction in overall input lag ?
1000

I'm worried about the same thing. Now that the Wii U uses HDMI I can't run audio to my analog stereo (the cs560 also has no audio outputs....). It'd be really easy to test if a digital receiver added lag by using the Wii U browser test I did above, the problem is I don't want to buy a bunch of them to find one that works.
post #3779 of 4189
Would anyone out there be able to make a recommendation for the best 37" 1080p monitor for VGA input lag? I currently have a 37" westy LVM-37w3 and when I hook my xbox 360 via VGA up to it it is NOTICABLY slower than the Acer H243H that the xbox is normally hooked up to.

I'm used to playing Halo on a CRT so any LCD feels slow to me, the combo of VGA and my acer is the closest thing Ive found so far. However, I need a second station and I cant add another monitor to my desk, so Im thinking of replacing the 37" westy that I use as my computer monitor and getting a new 37" that is dual-use.

Someone help!
Edited by FacTheory - 12/16/12 at 5:37pm
post #3780 of 4189
Good news! The portable device that Leo Bodnar was working on to test input lag and response time of any LCD screen with HDMI input is now available to purchase on his website! I just ordered mine and will update this forum on how well it works once I've gotten it. It's kind of pricey at $110.17 not including shipping from the UK but if it works as advertised I think it will be worth it to have it. It will practically fit in your pocket and uses only 2 AA batteries! It also supposedly has better than 1 millisecond accuracy. I hope it works! Here's a link to the website where you can purchase it:

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=89&products_id=212

I'm going to be using this device a lot once I get it! It will beat lugging a laptop and camera around to test TV's with!

I'll try and post as much test results I get with all the currently sold TV's in my local Best Buy, Target, and any other store I can get to. Of course I'll be testing the device's accuracy on my own TV's that I've tested against a CRT with before that to verify that it works like it should.
Edited by amisfit - 12/17/12 at 6:26am
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