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When will IDE go away?

post #1 of 29
3/23/09 at 2:00pm
Thread Starter 
I need to pick up a new DVD drive. They had the LG ATA on sale for $20 shipped and the SATA on sale for $24 shipped.

I was going to go with the cheaper, but I started wondering how long it will still be around. My mobo has 4 satas onboard, I have two filled so this would only leave me one spare for expansion (new build).

SATA came out around 2000, I believe and have read on some forums that it will completely replace IDE. Then again, it is 9 years later and you would be hard pressed to find a motherboard without atleast 1 ATA connection. I get my HDDs with SATA for the faster data transfer rate (theoretically), but a 22x DVD is only going to be able to transfer at most 30mbs/sec at probably about half that in reality so even an ATA133 cable hook up to two drives wouldn't touch its bandwidth cap, would it? And even then how often is optical used escept for burning or load a new program. And I Always underburn at 4-8x to prevent coasters anyway.
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post #2 of 29
3/23/09 at 2:51pm
Just go with the ATA IDE if you want to leave the SATA ports open for HD expandability. If future MBs stop creating ATA, then you can just purchase an ATA to SATA adapter.
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post #3 of 29
3/23/09 at 3:21pm
That's an option. Or for cheaper money, but one of these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrwalte View Post

Just go with the ATA IDE if you want to leave the SATA ports open for HD expandability. If future MBs stop creating ATA, then you can just purchase an ATA to SATA adapter.
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post #4 of 29
3/23/09 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by butters2006 View Post

That's an option. Or for cheaper money, but one of these.

That's if PCI still exists by the time IDE is removed from MBs as well I'm sure a PCIe x1 would be made, if not already, which is another good option. Then you still don't have to use up a SATA slot for IDE.
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post #5 of 29
3/23/09 at 3:42pm
By the time motherboards ship with SATA only slots (no PATA), it's likely Blu-ray drives would be in the $20 range, too. If I were you, I'd go with PATA now and preserve the SATA for future hard drive upgrades.
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post #6 of 29
3/23/09 at 3:49pm
I dunno, PCI came out in 93 and you could still get boards with ISA slots in 98/99.

You're wrong about when SATA hit though, it was more like 2004
http://www.intel.com/technology/serialata/index.htm

I'd guess you'll be buyin mobo's with no ATA in maybe another 2-3 years.
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post #7 of 29
3/23/09 at 3:53pm
Also ATA 133 is still more than any HD(ssd doesn't count) can do for a maxium sequential read (wich is the best case scenario for transfer rates).
http://www.storagereview.com/php/ben...bench_sort.php

Of course burst rates are higher if it's in the cache, but reality is that perfomance delta is pretty small between PATA and SATA versions of the same drives.
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post #8 of 29
3/23/09 at 4:55pm
Why not get a sata drive now and if you need more buy a pci sata controller.

IMO better than buying a adapter. Plus if your case is small having sata is much nicer than ide.
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post #9 of 29
3/23/09 at 4:58pm
In my experience, the component most prone to failure is the optical drive. I've had more of these die on me than any other component in any machine (I've gone through 6 optical drives in 10 years).

Chances are the drive will die in a few years anyway, at which point you will be re-considering this same issue. Then you can buy SATA.
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post #10 of 29
3/24/09 at 8:02am
On some mainboards, the remaining IDE connectors are provided by a RAID chip and only accept hard drives. That's the case with my P5Q PRO (P45).

I'd go with the SATA (which is what I did). Just the joy of not having to deal with ribbon cables anymore makes it worthy.
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post #11 of 29
3/24/09 at 9:19am
It'll probably go away about the time the floppy does.
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post #12 of 29
3/24/09 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

It'll probably go away about the time the floppy does.

Or the parallel port! Some of the motherboard makers still insist on mounting a DB-25 parallel printer port in the I/O backplate area.

I'd much prefer another two or four USB ports in that area.

Just like I'd prefer more PCIe slots and less legacy PCI slots.

Note that Intel still has a legacy PCI port in their upcoming P55 PCH, though they eliminated the IDE port a few ICH generations back.
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post #13 of 29
3/25/09 at 5:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Or the parallel port! Some of the motherboard makers still insist on mounting a DB-25 parallel printer port in the I/O backplate area.

I'd much prefer another two or four USB ports in that area.

Just like I'd prefer more PCIe slots and less legacy PCI slots.

Note that Intel still has a legacy PCI port in their upcoming P55 PCH, though they eliminated the IDE port a few ICH generations back.

I like my PCI slots

It was bad enough having to ugrade when the switch from AGP to PCI-e happened. I still remember having ISA controllers... oigh I hate them.

Though interfaces are different in my opinion. With the ATX standard, legacy ISAs, PCIs, AGP tend to eat up spaces. As most systems seem to use the MicroATX design, real estate in slots is very limited. What slots are available often has an impact on which mobo I pick. I don't know that and IDE port takes up that much more room. My one has 4 SATA and 1 IDE (which would actually be 2...and it runs optical) so I don't. I don't see what I would gain in removing it and the cost can't be more than $1-3 at this point if that.

I do agree with the parrallel port. Wish I had more USBs though not sure what I would use them for. It could make room for other things though like more audio options and such.
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post #14 of 29
3/25/09 at 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmarchini View Post

I need to pick up a new DVD drive. They had the LG ATA on sale for $20 shipped and the SATA on sale for $24 shipped.

I was going to go with the cheaper, but I started wondering how long it will still be around. My mobo has 4 satas onboard, I have two filled so this would only leave me one spare for expansion (new build).


I happily pay $4 to get rid of those nasty ATA cables!!! If your ports do run out then why not get a SATA card off ebay for a few $?

Teac
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post #15 of 29
3/26/09 at 3:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmarchini View Post

I need to pick up a new DVD drive. They had the LG ATA on sale for $20 shipped and the SATA on sale for $24 shipped.

I was going to go with the cheaper, but I started wondering how long it will still be around. My mobo has 4 satas onboard, I have two filled so this would only leave me one spare for expansion (new build).

In my mind, $24 makes it disposable. Go with the IDE and toss it out /recycle if it becomes obsoleted.
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post #16 of 29
3/26/09 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teac View Post

i happily pay $4 to get rid of those nasty ata cables!!! If your ports do run out then why not get a sata card off ebay for a few $?

Teac

+1.
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post #17 of 29
3/26/09 at 8:12am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teac View Post

I happily pay $4 to get rid of those nasty ATA cables!!! If your ports do run out then why not get a SATA card off ebay for a few $?

Teac

Am I the only person that uses this type of IDE cable?



Honestly, how often are you guys unpluggin and pluggin these in? I change them at most every 6 months if that.
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post #18 of 29
3/26/09 at 8:21am
I use that sort of cable, but that cable won't come with the DVD drive and it will likely cost more than $4. At that point, the SATA drive is actually less expensive than the IDE and even cleaner to install than the fancy cable . The real reason to use IDE is to save the SATA ports for Hard drive expansion as I do in my WHS.

P.S. related to above comments, the most recent build I have done used an Intel Motherboard with no floppy connector, no PATA(IDE) connector, no parallel port, serial port only via pin header and only 1 PCI slot, so these types of boards are already becoming mainstream. (DG45ID is one example)
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post #19 of 29
3/26/09 at 8:44am
Sorry, but how can finding one board out of the thousands (or maybe even tens of thousands) being sold make them mainstream?

BB
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post #20 of 29
3/26/09 at 11:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbird999 View Post

Sorry, but how can finding one board out of the thousands (or maybe even tens of thousands) being sold make them mainstream?

BB

+ 1

I did a quick search on AMD boards from newegg.com

Interesting. 129 boards with atleast 1 PATA, 4 with 2 PATA and 8 with no PATA. looks the "standard" for some time will be 1. So 6% without a PATA is hardly mainstream.
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post #21 of 29
3/26/09 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Also ATA 133 is still more than any HD(ssd doesn't count) can do for a maxium sequential read (wich is the best case scenario for transfer rates).
http://www.storagereview.com/php/ben...bench_sort.php

Of course burst rates are higher if it's in the cache, but reality is that perfomance delta is pretty small between PATA and SATA versions of the same drives.

Hi there

You're repeating a widespread misunderstanding of how disk drives transfer sector data. The misconception is so widespread that I don't recall ever reading an accurate description in a public forum.

The data transfer rates of PATA and SATA are the actual speeds at which the commands and data move on the cable. The transfers are between memories: memory on the PC side and memory on the disk side (actually the on-board disk controller, hence the name IDE). This memory on the drive is called the sector buffer of the controller. It's an intermediate storage for all sector data when transferring to/from the PATA/SATA interface and the disk's read/write heads. So all transfers are as fast as you mentioned like "burst rates are higher if it's in the cache". It's the dead time between the sector transfers (due to drive access delay) that reduce the average data transfer time, even though every sector is transferred at max interface speed.

In case you're wondering, I have written firmware for a disk drive controller, and have first-hand knowledge relating to the sector buffer.

Regards
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post #22 of 29
3/26/09 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_z View Post

Hi there

You're repeating a widespread misunderstanding of how disk drives transfer sector data. The misconception is so widespread that I don't recall ever reading an accurate description in a public forum.

The data transfer rates of PATA and SATA are the actual speeds at which the commands and data move on the cable. The transfers are between memories: memory on the PC side and memory on the disk side (actually the on-board disk controller, hence the name IDE). This memory on the drive is called the sector buffer of the controller. It's an intermediate storage for all sector data when transferring to/from the PATA/SATA interface and the disk's read/write heads. So all transfers are as fast as you mentioned like "burst rates are higher if it's in the cache". It's the dead time between the sector transfers (due to drive access delay) that reduce the average data transfer time, even though every sector is transferred at max interface speed.

In case you're wondering, I have written firmware for a disk drive controller, and have first-hand knowledge relating to the sector buffer.

Regards

That is actually my understanding of how it works, but the net-net is that over any length of time (greater than 1 or 2 seconds) the seek time + wait time far out weighs maximum interface speed.

My point was that when you go and look at comparable drives with PATA and SATA the overall performance delta on a native SATA drive is pretty small.

When you start using something like a SSD drive or even a drive that has a bigger buffer and NCQ then the transfer rate begins to be more valuable.
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post #23 of 29
3/26/09 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwstnsko View Post

I use that sort of cable, but that cable won't come with the DVD drive and it will likely cost more than $4. At that point, the SATA drive is actually less expensive than the IDE and even cleaner to install than the fancy cable . The real reason to use IDE is to save the SATA ports for Hard drive expansion as I do in my WHS.

P.S. related to above comments, the most recent build I have done used an Intel Motherboard with no floppy connector, no PATA(IDE) connector, no parallel port, serial port only via pin header and only 1 PCI slot, so these types of boards are already becoming mainstream. (DG45ID is one example)

Yes, that's because Intel s the lead company for determining PC evolution. Intel is slowly eliminating legacy PCI by adding more PCIex1 ports and decreasing the amount of PCI slots supported (by reducing the amount of REQ/GNT bus arbitraton pairs).

I have an Intel-branded P35 ATX from ~2 years ago and it has no PS2 kybd/mouse but still has a PATA. My OS and optical drive are PATA, saving the six SATA ports for RAID arrays in my usage.
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post #24 of 29
3/26/09 at 9:35pm
I would just get the SATA model. IDE is such a pain in the butt, but I can see the point about saving SATA ports for expansion. Then again, if you are the type to use more than 3 hard drives, it begs the question of why are you using a board with 4 SATA ports?

Since this is a disposable DVD drive, either is fine. There's no way I'd buy an IDE BD drive, though.
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post #25 of 29
3/27/09 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven975 View Post

There's no way I'd buy an IDE BD drive, though.

I don't think you can find any for sale.
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post #26 of 29
3/27/09 at 11:37am
You know that drive is only $20? It would make sense to ask that question if it were say $100+, but for something that inexpensive?


Either way, just get the SATA drive assuming you have any connectors left on your board. Even if you don't you can still buy an adapter that will convert your drive to IDE (with the old school power even) for about $5 on eBay.

For a 5.25" drive, that interface difference will mean nothing. The connector speed difference only really means anything if you look at HD cache.
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post #27 of 29
3/27/09 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmarchini View Post

+ 1

I did a quick search on AMD boards from newegg.com

Interesting. 129 boards with atleast 1 PATA, 4 with 2 PATA and 8 with no PATA. looks the "standard" for some time will be 1. So 6% without a PATA is hardly mainstream.

I wouldn't call buying bare motherboards mainstream. Almost all the Dell's desktops and towers I've seen since last year do not come with any IDE connectors.

But then again, what does it matter?
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post #28 of 29
3/27/09 at 1:20pm
:-) it's all a matter of perspective I guess, I consider anything I can by over the counter in a local store to be mainstream. It's gotten to the point where I even include Fry's Electronics in that category. If I have to order it from a catalog or the internet, I consider it to be a specialty item. In the HTPC realm, my Intel MB is one of the few components I was able to buy locally. Seems like all the good stuff comes from the e-tailers
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post #29 of 29
3/27/09 at 2:12pm
when i say so


but really soon as technology is changing really fast so id suggest you get it now but then never get it again
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