Can i connect an amplifier to onkyo reciever that has no pre-outs - Page 2

You sure you don't have any sort of dynamics compression setting turned on when using the onkyo? Otherwise what you say makes no sense, as 70dB measured using one amp vs another is still 70 dB. No one should sound louder than the other.
Though it is possible the new amps are being stressed and in turn compressing the audio, and so you feel you hear new things since all sounds, small and large, are near equal in volume. If thats the case, i'd look into actually turning on dynamic compression on your onkyo and try just using your onkyo amp.

Mebbe I don't understand what you mean, but just because you calibrate your system at "x" SPL, doesn't mean you have to listen to it at that level. Using the volume control to set a lower listening level is perfectly acceptable.

I figured it out. You are having problems balancing your various speakers, and these little amps are sort of pushing you into a different set of gain adjustements.

You're still pushing the sound through the amps in your speakers. It could be that they have forgotten how to drive speakers, but that is very rare.

I've been around the block just a few times in the past 50+ years of working with audio, and no properly-working power amp is as bad as the amps in your receivers seem to be. They are either broken or your various level settings are not right.

You previously mentioned problems hearing dialog. That's usually due to the mains being too loud and the center channel not being loud enough. For get about fancy calibration schemes, just adjust the speakers so that they sound right.

I'm not sure what you are saying here - as I understand it his speakers have no amps. And I've never heard of an amp forgetting how to drive speakers.

Lets give the OP the benefit of the doubt for now.

It is possible that the little amps he bought sound better to him than the built in onkyo amps. He does not say what Onkyo he has. But I suspect based on the description is it a cheap HTIB type of receiver. Does it have a model number?

Sure, the way he is using these little amps doesn't seem to make a lot of sense - he is after all passing the signal through the Onkyo amps, then through a cheap speaker to line level adapter (probably just a couple of resistors), then to his little amps. But it is quite possible the cheap Onkyo amps are happier driving a high impedance load (which is what the adapters provide). So maybe, just maybe, he really is getting better sound than before. Who knows, it is possible. . . maybe. . . Heck, a low end Onkyo probably doesn't have much money invested in output gain stages, and maybe they are not very good.

Output transistors can die, and maybe not making them work so hard results in better sound?

On the other hand, he is paying $50 for two channels of amplification, plus the cost of the adapters, plus the cost of the receiver. He might be better off selling everything he owns and putting that money toward a more capable receiver.

This could turn out to be a useful learning experience for him. Learning is always a good thing. You should have seen some of the crazy things I've tried over the years - learning by doing can be a very powerful method.

Or, he could be building and trying to sell these little amps and this is one of his attempts at marketing.

If he were building and selling them, he would probably know what double-blind testing is.

I certainly wouldn't buy anything audio from someone who doesn't know that term. I guess he could be playing dumb, but still...

Right, his onkyo receiver houses his origional amplifiers.


I was speaking figuratively. However it happens -various parts failures can make a power amp sound OK driving a high impedance load, but not do well driving a low impedance load. For this to happen to all of the amplifiers in a multichannel receiver would be pretty remarkable, but not impossible.



I was. If I wanted to be mean I could say that his ears are broken! ;-)


I wouldn't expect them to sound any different. However, we could have a case of "Constructor's ear" where his personal involvement with the little amps or at least the idea of using them is dominating his perceptions. But, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and not going there very seriously at this time.



Good question, but even a HTIB receiver should be able to drive speakers.



I'm not worried about the line level adaptor - I've designed and built my own version of them (I'm a degreed and experienced engineer, also very experienced with hands-on electronics and when I built my own - two resistors per channel!)

The mind-bending part is where the Onkyo amps are still in the signal path. Not that I am worried about them causing problems if in good operating condition, but because of all the potential failures that are excluded by their presence in a presumably good signal path.


Just any good power amp measures better when driving a high impedance load. However, just about any good modern power amp measures very well, as long as it is not overloaded.



Not very good by modern power amp standards is still pretty good in the cosmic scheme of things. Remember tubes? ;-) I do! :-(


Usually a bad output transistor has pretty catastrophic effects.



I bought one of those little Tripath amps a few years back. It sounded OK driving NHT super Zeroes, but it stank on the test bench.



Been there, done that.

I used to believe what I read in The Absolute Sound - I was a charter subscriber of both it and Stereophile.



Well, he picked a pretty tough house to play to, if that is his plan. BS does not do well here, I note.

At the end of the day all that really matters is if you are satisfied. And, it sounds like you mostly are now.

no

Are you answering the question of the thread?

Find a friend who is an old lab rat, open up the receiver and find some point where the preamp feeds the power amps, tap in there to new jacks. It really burns me that modern AVR's don't have the pre-out , main-in jacks of old. I have had to add them to three units now. Example, my Denon has 9 amps in it. I only use three. I could use the other 6 with an external crossover for mids and tweets if I could get to them, only needing one external bass amp.

Don't know which cheap amps he was referring to, but I tested/listened to the $9 off e-bay and found it a lot better than expected. Everyone uses the same chips, and the chips have gotten a LOT better. Is my bench 35W Rotel better, yea, but not by much.
They are only really 20W or so, not the 350 they advertise. I use it for my computer speakers. I was thinking a pile of them would make a great way to power many pairs of wall plates for whole-house background speakers. 20 channels for $100. Would I use them for my mains? No, I already have a pile of used Haflers for that