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POLL: IS SD (IE NTSC) dead?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
So after a few back and forth PM's with a vendor that is on here trying to capture some htpc business, we got into a little debate about tuner card hardware, and one of the things that came up was about NTSC and that this said vendor thinks that NTSC SD is dead and that he won't bother with it at all.

So then I question "what about SD cable tv?" that is still NTSC, and QAM only picks up a slim number of SD channels as those that are in SD are generally encrypted, and 1 - 99 is still analog NTSC. Don't know about you but I still record SD via NTSC every day, specially kids programming for my daughter.

Also what about those that do NTSC capture via svideo from cable boxes, or those with sat service and do svideo capture from their sat boxes?

Even though OTA broadcast is killing off NTSC, I still firmly believe that NTSC SD capture cards are still needed in today's htpc world, how about you?

- Josh
post #2 of 11
I don't know how to answer the poll, but for me, there are only two channels I ever actually watch, that aren't broadcast in HD. And even with those I'm seriously considering switching to one of Dish Network's HD only TurboHD packages.

I record almost nothing in SD anymore. My primary "tuners" are my HD Homerun (2x ATSC) and my Hauppauge HD PVR recording off my Dish VIP 211 HD STB.

I don't think I'd go so far as to say SD is "dead for the HTPC", it will still be functional for quite a while. But for me, SD is dead (HTPC or not) and I do believe SD is now more a fallback than a primary option.
post #3 of 11
I get most of my channels through the analog converter box supplied by Comcast. I use my analog capture card to record and watch them through the HTPC.

Why? Because the upconversion makes them look very good and I do not feel the need to pay extra for something which is only marginally better.

I have the HDHomeRun to snag the digital channels which are not encrypted.
post #4 of 11
Since the FCC requires that cable channels contiue to carry it till 2012 for local stations and since all standard DVDs ar encoded in NTSC standard 480i resolution I don't known why anyone would even think that it is dead. To think that all TVs in the US that can only play SD NTSC content are obsolete is absurb, maybe 30 years from now.
post #5 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Since the FCC requires that cable channels contiue to carry it till 2012 for local stations and since all standard DVDs ar encoded in NTSC standard 480i resolution I don't known why anyone would even think that it is dead. To think that all TVs in the US that can only play SD NTSC content are obsolete is absurb, maybe 30 years from now.

I agree, but tell that to all the people who think all the HD-DVDs suddenly disintegrated the moment the format war ended...
post #6 of 11
There's really three different (though not unrelated) question/issues here.
  1. How long will SD content be around?
  2. How long will SD be broadcast?
  3. Does it make sense to build SD only capture systems?

I think we can all agree SD content will be around for a long time. Lots of content was shot with SD cameras and thus can never be remastered to HD. Even today some stuff is still shot in SD (though that is rapidly ending).

How long SD will be broadcast is more complicated. If you look at Dish Network and DirecTV, you'll find that most every major network has a High Definition channel. I don't think it's a stretch to think that before long they'll realize it's illogical to waste bandwidth maintaining SD simulcasts of HD networks. The HD arms race is definitely on. It's to a point where you need basically everything in HD to be competitive these days. Then there's cable, where lots of MSOs are moving to all digital and SDV (with the hope being they'll transition clear analog to clear digital). Now of course boxes will be able to output SD for white a while for backwards compatibility.

Which brings us to the last question. If everything is available in HD, how long are we going to "accept" recording downconverted HD. At this point I think no, it doesn't make sense to build SD-only capture systems. At the very least I think you want hybrid analog SD/ATSC/QAM systems. And ideally I think we want to start looking for more Hauppauge HD PVR solutions.
post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I don't know how to answer the poll, but for me, there are only two channels I ever actually watch, that aren't broadcast in HD. And even with those I'm seriously considering switching to one of Dish Network's HD only TurboHD packages.

I record almost nothing in SD anymore. My primary "tuners" are my HD Homerun (2x ATSC) and my Hauppauge HD PVR recording off my Dish VIP 211 HD STB.

I don't think I'd go so far as to say SD is "dead for the HTPC", it will still be functional for quite a while. But for me, SD is dead (HTPC or not) and I do believe SD is now more a fallback than a primary option.

yes I get that you "prefer" HD, hell I doubt anyone here will deny they would rather have HD only recordings. I personally would, if I could, do HD only recordings. but for me its a matter of cost as well. I'd rather record in SD, than pay the astronomical fee's that go with HD service with any one single tv provider (cable, sat, ect...)

My point was more about that fact that users like myself, weather it due to only wanting to use Windows Media Center and not having HD capture support (HD PVR, until windows 7), or not wanting to pay for HDTV service, or any number of things.

The point was that just because one single person prefers to do something one way, doesn't mean its "dead" or none existent for everyone else.

Look at Canada for example, it is still extremely hard to get reliable, easy working ATSC service, or QAM, or cable card.

The fact is that NTSC/SD tuner cards will still be around for a while to come.

EDIT: Also when I talk about SD, what I mean is analog. Meaning tuning in NTSC analog via cable tv, or captureing NTSC analog via composit/svideo from a cable or sat or any other form of a STB.


- Josh
post #8 of 11
This morning, after more than two years, I reconnected one of my analog tuners, as my local Time Warner is encrypting more and more channels.
post #9 of 11
Well you can't capture NTSC analog today from satellite since all satellite is digital.
Cable, satellite and coupon OTA digital STBs will contiue to output analog NTSC SD content for years over their RF coax or S-video output connedtions.
Also the FCC conversion of analog OTA NTSC broadcasts only applies to High powered stations. Many low powered OTA analog broadcast stations have no plans to shutdown or convert to digital since they do not have to.
post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Well you can't capture NTSC analog today from satellite since all satellite is digital.

Sure you can, its called svideo via IR blasters. When I say NTSC analog its the same thing as an analog capture via svideo or composit or even coax.

Quote:


Many low powered OTA analog broadcast stations have no plans to shutdown or convert to digital since they do not have to.

Not true at all. They were granted extensions. but eventually they'll have to be 100% digital.

- Josh
post #11 of 11
There are devices and old video shot on NTSC we'll still want to watch. Much of it will be converted, but there will be the occasional need for good ole NTSC.

Mike
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