Lag results - Samsung A750 vs B650 - Also my Opinion on them both compared - Page 2

Did you retest the VGA mode at all? That is my primary concern since it's how I'll be hooking up my Xbox. At least, I think it is. My 360 is old and doesn't have HDMI so it's either component or VGA.

Well at the very least PC mode looks better than the a series PC mode by what this guy says so using VGA will mean it won't look like crap so that should help you out a bit. Ironically people who use the VGA on the a series TVs don't complain the picture looks like crap though compared to people with HDMI and switch between PC mode and non-PC mode. Probably because one can compare the 2 so maybe that's why but still some have said VGA seems less washed out than HDMI2/PC mode so who knows.

So basically when comparing Samsung B650 VGA or either PC MODE it is at least faster than the Samsung A750 Game Mode???

May I also ask what options are available when in Game Mode with the B650 TV?

Since Game Mode on the A750 definitely has dynamic contrast and edge enhancement on I would like to know if those two options are available to be used under Game Mode in the B650 TV.

I'm just asking because that could also make a difference in comparing both Game Modes.

This is also why I believe Game Mode in the A750 could of been faster possibly similar to HDMI2/PC mode if it didn't have dynamic contrast and edge enhancement locked set to on.

I know its slower than A750 PC mode but I mean is B650 PC mode faster than A750 Game Mode.

Yea I also figured that about the improvement of picture quality in PC mode on the B650 when you said it is improved from the A series.

Like I said it was never meant for reduced lag purposes like Game Mode it was meant for PC use specifically to make text look correct as it can be.

EDIT= Ohh I see you meant they are the same Game Mode and PC mode for the B650 ok I get it...

Newbie questions,

If I'm simply just watching TV, movies, and occasional PS3 Plyaing baseball, soccer, basketball, does this LAG even matter?

I ask because this thread is starting to scare me in terms of getting the B model over A.

Thanks!

Whoa don't confuse input lag with response time buddy; a high input lag of 100-200ms won't affect people who just watch videos/movies.

Input lag is controller lag like when you press a button and it takes a 1/5th of a second to be displayed on the TV.

It has already been said that 30-60ms of input lag is not noticeable for like majority of people and in depending on the game also.

Usually its with fighting games first then first person shooters while playing online which is never 0 ping is where 60ms of input lag could affect some and the keyword here is some.

So damn all of those is available now heres one of my last questions;

when comparing Game Mode on the B650 vs A750 did you turn ON Dynamic Contrast and Edge Enhancement???

Common sense would let me to believe that turning off those 2 options should make game mode faster than A750 Game Mode since those are locked set to ON on the A750.

No in the A750 Game Mode you can't even go in the advanced settings to even see whats on or not but I know for sure it's on just like Dynamic Contrast (on what level low-high that I'm not sure on). I can tell and there is a game where one can easily tell both of those is on.

Well I believe edge enhancement shouldn't add much or if anything to cry about but dynamic contrast on the other hand could add like an average probably 10ms extra or so.

Rather strange to see that the bug initially found on the 2008 A630 series applies to the 2009 B650 series as well. I wonder how many other sets/series it applies to...

I was considering returning my A630 I bought 3 weeks ago (since i'm still in the no questions asked return policy provided by the store I purchased it from), but knowing the only suitable replacement suffers from the same bug and PC mode offering no advantage over game mode kinda kills that whole idea for me. Game mode being adjustable is cool and all, but I don't think it'd be worth the extra effort and cash to replace my set.

I'll just be happy with what i've got.

Side question related to lag: I understand how it impacts gaming, but how about audio-sync? Display lag means the picture will be behind the audio signal, which the receiver likely will be processing/broadcasting before the picture. Now, maybe this is a wash due to speed of light vs. speed of sound, but I'm curious how this plays out. Obviously receivers have delay settings to allow all channels to reach you at the same time, but has anyone ever upped these settings to accommodate display lag?

input lag can cause lip sync issues, most notably if your not using the HDMI audio stream coming from the TV, like if you have HDMI plugged directly into the TV and then use Optical digital audio out to a A/V Receiver like I do

if the audio is coming out of the TV or is being fed from the TV to the Receiver the TV SHOULD compensate for the delay, but this is not always the case

newer HDMI receivers have sound delay to correct this problem as well

also as long as the input lag is fairly small its not really an issue, Before i got my Sony 32xbr6 I had a crappy Insignia 32" It had horrible input lag I never tested it at the time because I didnt really know about the problem but i seen it with PC use big time with the mouse and also saw lip sync issues with ANYTHING except for the TV's tuner, this included routing sound though the TV first then to a Receiver!!

now my sony 32xbr6 I have tested for input lag, I thought it was lag free beforehand but it is not, in video modes on any HD input its around 40ms in game mode drops it to about 30ms and SD inputs (svideo was tested) in game mode 40-50 ms never tested svideo out of game mode but its prolly about 10 ms higher.

now i have my PC, PS3 and xb360 plugged into my Receiver directly via optical so I can get DD and DTS sound from movies, and my SD cable box is connected to the TV (composite video, analog audio its a crap STB) and I never see lip sync issues on any input, I think the cable box plugged into composite would be the most likely to cause lip sync issues due to this being the highest lag input on the TV but because i route the sound through my TV then into my Receiver the TV is most likely delaying the sound to compensate for the lag and on other inputs the TV is lag free enough for it to be a non issue

could this thread be merged with frito's input lag wars one to make it easier for people to look and compare results like urs kvw?

That would be a good idea, though i did already take it upon myself to cross post his test results, er well his first round of them at least

Unfortunately, I have an older receiver (Denon 3803 that I have no intention of replacing at this time) that doesn't have HDMI. So my TivoHD will be hooked up with HDMI to the TV and optical from the Tivo to the receiver for sound. I know that these TVs have optical out, but from what I understand it strips out 5.1, so this isn't an option. I'll have to take a look at how much delay I can add on top of what it's already set to.

Yeah i'm in the same boat, both of my a/v receivers are older ones, I use a Sony in my room with my 32" lcd (its a pc setup mainly and HT/TV secondarily) the sony even has a busted rear surround channel but i dont care much lol ill prolly replace it sooner or later

my other one is a good old Onkyo 777 THX receiver i use with my 46" phillips CRT RPTV 1080i TV, its in our family room and ever sense getting my LCD i never even want to look at that old beast of a RPTV again lol, I live with my sister and her husband so they mainly use it anyways lol

anyways back on topic, yeah pretty much all TV's afaik will downmix a DD signal to DD 2.0 on the optical output, what is interesting though is that when i fed the crappy insignia a DTS signal is just did nothing didn't pass it though or anything no sound on my receiver, My sony actually DOES pass the DTS audio out though Optical untouched for my receiver to decode in 5.1!! course as most things are in DD this is of little impact on the problem lol

still though IMHO MOST TV's are not laggy enough to make it a major problem unless your using Crappy composite inputs on your STB and then Digital audio out to your receiver

I found some audio-delay boxes that are available to solve this problem. The cheapest one I've found is the Felston DD740. $250. I've noticed in the past that I'm pretty sensitive for lip-syncing issues, so I may have to pick one of these up.

You guys have lag with HDMI to tv and Optical from box to receiver? I'm on my second Samsung DLP and NEVER had any lag connected this way, my receiver is a 4 year old NAD and I never needed to adjust the delay. I find it hard to believe there would be any lag, both out puts from the box are digital (HDMI for video & Optical for sound).. What's even more discouraging is the optical out from the B650/A750 Tvs still does not send 5.1 to your receiver... Why is this?

Most LCD's seem to downmix any Dolby Digital signal to stereo Dolby Digital for output on their internal speakers and as a result the optical out is only sending out this signal on HDMI inputs, whats funny is if you use the tuner it outputs full 5.1 Dolby digital. but on HDMI inputs out goes DD stereo

i've yet to find a setting in my sony at least that would change this

KVW,

What app are you using to test lag with? Thanks!

What mode for the 52" a750 would be the best for picture quality and gaming?? I'm not too worried about lag. I got an elite 360 hooked up to my onkyo 876, hdmi takes care of audio and picture. Anyone have any good callibration gaming settings for the A750?

Wow seriously depressing thread here ;-) I've been researching hdtvs starting from scratch for about 3 months now & I'd finally narrowed it down to a few models which arent even close to the high end sammys being mentioned here.

sammy LNxxA450
toshiba xxAV502U
sharp LC-xxSB24U

This tv's sole purpose is for my xbox on which i play a lot of Cod free for all. A fast paced FPS as im sure a lot of you know where even the slightest bit of lag as someone else eloquently pointed out about two people coming around the corner at the same time can make the differnce between kill or be killed.

Also like someone else had mentioned I had ventured over to the plasma board because i heard mentions of no response times and other stuff but by the time i got done reading about breaking in, IR, and everything else i had a headache.

Is there any lag test info on some of these older models? Maybe I should just get an lcd for single player games and leave online gaming to my hulking sony crt which still has a pretty decent picture. Any thoughts?