Official 2008 Samsung HL61A750/HL67A750 LED DLP Settings and Calibration Thread - Page 11

Lee, I have a question about your calibration process. I'm wondering if you've found a way to adjust the Y (luminance) values for each of the colors. x & y can be adjusted rather easily in the Desat menu, but there isn't an adjustment for Y values specifically. One of the ways I've been doing this is to adjust my color control... the calibration guides I've seen suggest adjusting it so that red Y is 21% of white Y... but the problem is that this changes the Y values for all of the colors at the same time. I'm wondering if you do any adjustment of the color control to change Y values, and if so, how are you setting this?

Varus had talked about adjusting the Y values for the primaries in the CCA menu. My understanding is that this is not really what these were meant for, as you're supposed to be inputting the raw color data you measure with the internal color windows and CCA off. However, it would seem as though this would be a way to have some better control of individual Y adjustments. I think he did report some success by using this method, but I thought I read where he ultimately decided not to go this route. Maybe he'll read this and give us an update.

I'm just wondering how everyone is dealing with their Y adjustments.

Lee, after I had more time to work with your settings with CCA sensor status information you sent me. I had found and corrected my issue with moving Desaturation yellow down way below yours. I posted my settings for you to look at the bottom portion of this reply.

I had to move CCA Red and Blue Y values to OEM service manual defaults, and keep your Green values untouched. Then adjusted Blue-Y to get the sensor values as close to yours as possible with out making Green go beyond 147. I then moved Red-Y to get R-145, G-146, and B-154.

As you know I get grey by getting all the RGB CCA sensor values to match equally. So I noted that when the screen flashed durring the CCA save that the white was tinted redish. I was able to then balance the Desaturation settings to the best I could with the Red and Green filters.

I noted that the CCA sensor values changed after getting done with Desaturation, and continued to manualy adjust Blue and Red Y to get the CCA sensor values to match.

After that I re-did the Desaturation values to get the best color filter settings. Again, moving Desaturation around will need to recalibrate CCA if using my method.

I now have most of your values working though I did not expect them to work as well. Since my calibrating had shown the settings would move away, not move closer.

I think the issue you wrote about (when saving a CCA value), causes the menu to go into a funky blue mode, is from pushing a color into beyond saturation mode in the CCA. As I explained before, you can move around up or down the coordinate and still get a result (I am not sure but after increments of 10 the color level becomes cyclic). That caused me to think about moving down on the Y as it affects overall gain of the primary color.



Here is my settings with CCA sensor values equal at 154 (having one color + or - 1 is ok), as you may see about 80% mirror of yours:

CCA
------------
Red-x:699
Red-y:299
*Red-Y:94.1 (moved up from Lee's setting)
**Red-Y:82.8 (moved up from OEM default)

***Red-x:701 (perfect CCA sensor setup for my TV)
***Red-Y:93.3 (perfect CCA sensor setup for my TV)

Green-x:196
Green-y:724
*Green-Y:282.2 (moved down from Lee's setting, as the last part of getting CCA correct from Desaturation adjustments)
**Green-Y:282.4 (very small tweak to get CCA sensor status near equal after Desaturation adjustments)

***Green-Y:282.1 (perfect CCA sensor setup for my TV)

Blue-x:136
Blue-y:51
**Blue-Y:29.7 (moved up from Lee's setting)
**Blue-Y:27.0 (moved up from OEM default)

***Blue-x:137 (perfect CCA sensor setup for my TV)
***Blue-y:50 (perfect CCA sensor setup for my TV)
***Blue-Y:29.0 (perfect CCA sensor setup for my TV)

Desaturation
----------------

*Red-x:640 (OEM default)
Red-y:330

*Green-x:295 (OEM default)
Green-y:595

*Blue-x:150 (OEM default)
*Blue-y:60 (OEM default)

**Cyan-x:217 (Slightly lower than Lee's)
**Cyan-y:225 ~ 230 (Slightly lower than Lee's)

**Magenta-x:343 ~ 350 (Higher than Lee's, and closer to default)
**Magenta-y:163 ~ 170 (Higher than Lee's, and closer to default)

*Yellow-x:422 (OEM default)
*Yellow-y:500 (Any higher adjustment would not effect yellow, as it is close to calibration)

**Yellow-x:450 (A little lower than Lee's)
**Yellow-y:550 (Any higher adjustment would not effect yellow, as it is close to calibration)

I think Lee has noted that he adjusts the offset and gain in the WB submenu.

I have played with it earier in my tweaking to kill red over-saturation, and found it better just to calibrate with the settings you use in the user menu set in the Expert Mode Calibration menus of the service menu.

Jrcorwin, the sensor status numbers helps only if your are trying to deal with Grey at the CCA level, as Lee has been dealing with Grey with in Desaturation. Lee's method is easier if you have the right tools. If not, you can do it though very tricky through the CCA.

Also you may be enquizative about why my Magenta values are way different than Lee's. As my Red is more brilliant than Lee's, though his Blue is more brilliant than mine. For example my CCA numbers are R-134, G-139, B-154 with Lee's un-touched settings in CCA and OEM defaults in Desaturation. While his numbers are almost a reversal since blue is dominant. Others may find Green their issue... it all depends on the light engine.

I did say tricky, as you need to go back and fourth doing CCA and Desaturation.

Once you got the calibration close it is harder and harder to change CCA or Desaturation without effecting the caliberation as it is very noticable with the CCA sensor status or the filters depending on where you are in the menu. Not that it throws off all colors, just you may see something change that you thought would not.

I don't think the offset and gain adjustments are used to dial in Y color values. My x & y values are nearly dead-on and my greyscale is reading very nice across the board at 6500K. Adjusting offsets and gains would throw off my greyscale tracking.

The BEST way to control Y would be at the source, which are the CCA inputs for R,B,G. If you wanted to take your time, you could get them balanced. The catch is of course, that what you take from one, you give to the others.

On the 67" set I just did last night, I left the settings that were put into the CCA menu at the factory, and adjusted around that with the Desaturation menu, and user menu. I ended up using the same user menu settings as the ones listed in the post from a user who just had his 67" calibrated, with the exception of using the sRGB Gamut instead of Normal. I also only had to adjust the grayscale on this set using the Cinema CCA control. I was able to leave the WB Gains and Offsets at the settings from the factory.

I've found that adjusting the color control is the best way to take RED down, so far. As long as it does not take much saturation out of the rest of the colors.

Got my HL61A750 (1007.4 firmware) yesterday and I've been playing with the calibration ever since.

I put in all of Lee's settings verbatim and it looks NICE. Thank you Lee! I've made a few (slight) source-specific modifications (usually using DVE), and everything looks quite amazing for the most part... but... ... ... I have one issue.

My problem is that my reds (especially the rich ones) are all looking somewhat magenta. For instance, watching the Bulls game earlier and now the Rockets (teams with very RED colors), they all look kinda magenta. The Rockets colors all kinda look like T-Mobile's colors (Try Rockets website w/ T-mobile ads for comparison: nba.com/rockets). It's not quite that drastic, but it's there.

Basically, it's like the reds just have a tad too much blue. There's a bit of "glow" to pure reds (like red uniforms) so I could probably could take color down a notch or 2, but that doesn't fix the magenta tone that's been creeping in there and into people's faces. Messing with tint just makes it more magenta-y or too green. All of my sources have about the same problem. Any suggestions service menu-wise? I don't have any professional calibration gear or anything, so I guess I'm just wondering if there's a particular control I should try to tweak to dial out some of the magenta tone and turn it back into red.

Thanks guys.

I can only tell you that I do not use the filters at all for setting color and tint. The COLOR control is all I set, to bring down the red.

Maybe I'd be getting in over my head since I've only messed with the service menu to the extent that it took to input Lee's settings, but what about the CCA settings? Could that fine tune the red to get rid of the magenta tint of it? ...or maybe it's more like the overall "blue level" that needs to come down.

Not really sure... I just feel like I'm so close to perfect that I don't want to give up now without tweaking that last little bit.

Make sure that you go to each input you use and input my settings in the service menu. I've been looking around in mine, and noticed that my HDMI1 where I performed the calibrations, did not carry over to other inputs for the Desaturation settings.

I think Varus had brought that up on the Desaturation and WB settings not carrying over unless you change it individually on each input. I have been doing this every time on my set and I can confirm those settings do not carry over.

I'm going to be less active around here in the company weeks (probably months). Just want to thank everyone for their hard work here.... When my 67A750 arrived I was not very happy with many aspects of the picture.... If not for this group (and collectively you know who you are, those dedicated to DLP xA750 series Samsungs) I would still be watching with Dynamic Contrast and Dynamic Blacks on, I would have no reference point... Thanks to many users here (especially Varus and Lee) I have a jaw dropping picture that honestly I don't believe a pro calibrator could top (I'm a guy who's spent way too much time doing comparisons)

It's a great feeling to go into a Home Theater store and to look at a really high-end display like the Pioneer Elite Kuro and not feel a slightest bit of lust...

This thread is an experiment and we have results to show these settings can transfer within certain parameters. A pro ISF tech may spend 6-8 hours top on a display, but here we have a passionate group of talented do-it-yourself calibrators who have spent weeks soley on these displays. Combing through these forums I'm not seeing this kind of devotion with these kind of results elsewhere (for other displays). To stop and think about that and the proven ability for these settings to transfer is pretty amazing. It's quite possible we have one of the best displays money can buy bar done.... There are times I feel like I could literally reach my hand into my set!

Thanks guys!

Off topic but I thought a good number of you might enjoy this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyfJbWbueUs

Thank you all for putting together such an informative guide. Because of this thread I've recently gotten back into calibrating my 61a750 with the EyeOne LT. I'm running into a rather odd problem though. With the following settings:

HDMI2/Movie/Warm2 (PS3)
Dynamic Contrast On
Contrast 56
Brightness 44
Black Adjust Off
LED Control Low
Gamma -3

...my gamma is somewhere between 2.15-2.19.

But I'm trying to recalibrate without Dynamic Contrast, so with these settings:

HDMI2/Movie/Warm2 (PS3)
Dynamic Contrast Off
Contrast 78
Brightness 47
Black Adjust Off
LED Control Low
Gamma -3

...the gamma jumps to 2.5.

It seems that the original settings are actually better since it's closer to the 2.2 target, even though DC is on. Or perhaps there is something I'm missing. The only adjustments I've done so far are in the user menus.

Thanks for any input.

edit: I'm thinking maybe the gamma at -3 is causing this. I haven't tried calibrating it on anything else yet.

Try going into the service menu and change the Gamma in the DDP3021 menu to (0)Film instead of (4)OEM. Then, change your user menu Gamma to 0. See how that looks.

Alright, thanks guys. I checked all of the inputs this time. Oddly enough, my desaturation settings did carry over to all inputs; however, my WB settings did not. I'll have to watch some more material to check for the magenta-y reds again.

BTW, just what do all those Xs and Ys do? ...in the desaturation menu or in the CCA? Maybe it's too complicated to explain here... is there somewhere with info on that? I'm just wondering if my color is a little off from Lee's, is there something I can do to tweak it out.

Hey guys I've been quite sick recently and getting better has taken a higher priority over tv calibration. Regarding the CCA menu, I changed my mind and have used it to alter the Y values again. Changing Overlap to 15% has made it a bit less predictable though. Red and Blue are essentially perfect while Green is still a little bright but close enough that I'm not complaining. I'm not posting the settings yet because yellow is still out of whack and I'd like to get it a little closer than it currently is...if I can ever find something which works.

Hi,

I have recently expanded my tweaking on the TV. I have found that by adjusting blue Y below 24 and keeping blue x around 143 ~ 147 and blue y around 40 ~ 46 when calibrating with color set at 50, Brightness at 45, and LED brightness at High will allow better and more predictible colors for summer viewing.

I am bending to stay this way, as I can adjust ambient light easier than having to redo TV adjustments.

Will post my new findings when I have fully calibrated.

Sorry to hear about your health... Hope you feel better soon. I'm still using your first calibration settings and I'm very happy with them.

From information gathered and my own series of tests with various setups in calibration. I have found some myths, and a suprises. One of which is that you can get nearly the same picture with various modes and different calibration setups.

The main myth is not realy a myth... It is more or less a lack of information to the LED light engine not being stable with colors in Medium Brightness and higher levels.

It due to the factory calibration being setup to work ok with all modes not just one in particular.

You can calibrate well with all modes, but Medium and Low LED Brightness levels are hardest to calibrate.

I have found Lee's calibration settings useful as my TV was not calibrated by the factory when I set it up. Though the factory service manual defaults were pretty good as no other default settings posted gave any better PQ.

Below is my settings to get a very good self calibration with a brightness close to CRT TV for every day viewing. If you have the time and understanding, you can tweak it to work with a LED Brightness of Max easier than using Lee's current settings.




Here are the settings:

Setup all Expert Settings menus with the same setup for your user menu.
The settings below are for LED brightness of High, Color at 50, Tint at 50/50, Brightness at 45 and Contrast at 76.
DB must be turned off and Overlap set at 0%

CCA
------------
Red-x:699
Red-y:296
Red-Y:91.5

Green-x:196
Green-y:724
Green-Y:292.6

Blue-x:145
Blue-y:46
Blue-Y:23.9

Desaturation
----------------

Red-x:640
Red-y:330

Green-x:295
Green-y:595

Blue-x:150
Blue-y:60

Cyan-x:220 ~ 230
Cyan-y:230 ~ 240

Magenta-x:350 ~ 360
Magenta-y:160 ~ 170

Yellow-x:415 ~ 420
Yellow-y:494 ~ 500

Much thanks to Lee Bailey for his latest and greatest service menu settings!

I've always messed with the user menu settings to try and achieve the best picture possible. Unfortunately I always found myself in there adjusting the settings because I was never happy. Last night I started looking thru the threads here on the forum and came across this one. I finally got the cahonas to go into the service menu settings and follow Lee's instructions step-by-step.

I couldn't be happier at this point. My tv looks amazing! Thanks so much Lee!

? ?

Get Well Soon

Anyone did contrast ratio measurement? I haven't found anything on the tread.

Maybe I just missed it.

Yes, these sets have a 10,000:1 Dynamic Contrast ratio. Dynamic contrast is pretty useless...

That is what is supposed to be.

I've measured close to 1700:1 (native) without the light on auto and 8800:1 (dynamique) with the the setting at auto. I was just trying to confirm my numbers.

The setting at Auto is useless for me. Way too bright in that mode.

Auto is way too bright for me, too. It does not seem to "adjust" very much. I rarely have my setting above "low." In the a.m., when the sun is hitting the screen pretty directly (lots of windows in my room), I sometimes kick it up to "medium," but turn it back down once that scenario passes. I love, love, love the way this set performs with the amount of light in my room!

I've calibrated my 61A750 several times using a Getgray DVD, Panasonic S87 DVD player (1080i out), Calman V3.3 and a Eye1 Pro. The following were in the Expert Calibrate mode.

I found that entering someone else's numbers in CCA (even your own) saving and spreading them will cause significant grayscale errors. You must recalibrate the grayscale afterward ((if using someone else's CCA values their other numbers won't work) granted they may be a big improvement over default). Also for final Service Menu values readings must be taken in the User Menu as things will change going from Service to User. That being said here are my numbers and attached charts.

Expert Settings

Calibrate on
P-Mode calibrate
Color Tone warm2
Contrast 75 (gives 48 FL)
Brightness 44
Color 50
Tint 50
Sharpness 20

Expert D-Settings

Dynamic Contrast off
Gamma 0
Flesh Tone 0
Edge Enhance off
xvYCC off
LED Control medium
White Balance 0

Expert C-Space

Color Space s-RGB

Expert Other

Size just scan
NR off
Film Mode on

CCA Control

Red-x 699
Red-y 299
Red_Y 80.6
Green-x 205
Green-y 724
Green-Y 264.3
Blue-x 137
Blue-y 51
Blue-Y 24.5

Desaturation

sRGB Red-x 638
Red-y 332
Green-x 295
Green-y 603
Blue-x 148
Blue-y 50
Cyan-x 217
Cyan-y 311
Magenta-x 291
Magenta-y 137
Yellow-x 439
Yellow-y 588

Cinima CCA

Warm2 Dwhite X 290
Dwhite Y 312

WB

(M) Sub Brightness 127
Red_Offset 518
Green_Offset 518
Blue_Offset 521
Sub Contrast 131
Red_Gain 533
Green_Gain 516
Blue_Gain 485


With the inconsistency of the I1 Pro reading all values can very +/- 1 or 2 clicks.

Guys, I'm still trying to find out if the service menu offers any hope of taming the Input options. What I'm trying to solve is a way to get inputs to change MUCH faster than possible by default. There are some settings that refer to the inputs but I'm not entirely sure what they do.

No amount of tweaking is letting me switch out of an input to another input on a cold power-up. It's taking like 10 seconds to get that done which is just way too long.

I'd like to find something that tells the set to stop scanning for a signal on start (I suspect that's part of the delay). I've seen a couple posts from people suggesting that their setups don't do this at all. How?

Can anyone out there shed some light on this? As it is now I have to turn on the TV, let it get settled and THEN use my home theater remote to bounce somewhere else. With all my other TV's I could simply hit the input macro of choice from a cold start and, presto, everything was done with no delay or hassle.