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HDMI makes music sound funny?

post #1 of 18
4/10/09 at 5:01am
Thread Starter 
Ok. This is a good one.

I have some 400GB free on the OS drive of my server. I decided to rip some CDs and use the HTPC as a juke box.

When these are played in the living room on the main HTPC system, the music sounds all "tinklely". Vocals sound like the artist is breathing helium.

When played on the server itself or another PC that uses analog out, everything is fine. This is true of both .WMA and .MP3 files. This is also true of windows sounds. Vista startup and shut down.

But NOT MC or MP videos AND recorded TV programs AND DVDs. They all play fine. Sound is great. Here's a description of the system:

Vista HP 32-bit. SP-1. Pretty much up to date.
MSI K9A2 CF MoBo
64 X2 2.2 GHz CPU
MSI 9400 GT video card. SPDIF to MoBo header. HDMI to TV. Optical to Sony SRS AV receiver.
Vid driver is probably one release back from current.
HDMI sound device driver is from MSI MoBo CD.

I noticed the tinklely windows sounds when I got this running back in December (after installing the 9400 GT video card) but figured the sound driver install changed some sound files because MC recorded TV and DVDs sound normal (meaning really good!).

The WMA and MP3 files take the amount of time they should meaning a 4 minute song takes 4 minutes to play but vocals all sound like Alvin the chipmunk.

I hate to mess with the HDMI sound driver. I fought getting HDMI sound AND video both working in MC for over a year! MC is working perfectly as a DVR or OTA receiver.

Any help greatly appreciated. Listening to our CDs with vacation pics running on the slide show is really cool-- if I could stand the sound.

Terry
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post #2 of 18
4/10/09 at 2:07pm
Thread Starter 
Bump.
No one has heard of this?
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post #3 of 18
4/10/09 at 4:26pm
Had this on both Intel G45 with Vista and Nvidia 9400M with XP. The G45 was a friend's, and it only did that in my system, not his, so it's some kind of configuration issue; the 9400M did it consistently when I moved away from the video drivers that came with the motherboard and switched to the latest and greatest (you read that right-- video drivers-- the audio drivers had no effect on the situation).

On the 9400M it was something to do with the HDMI LPCM audio rendering, as it was across all audio filters and only manifested when I was not doing Dolby Digital or DTS: LPCM only. I was able to turn off the behavior in a weird way: if I tried to play back a 6-channel 48kHz LPCM file (over only two channels, mind you) and then switched in the middle to a different (two channel) MP3 or WMV, from then onward there was no problem... until I shut down the application... then the fun started all over again.

I have since moved to Vista and it has not recurred, but I have been careful not to install more modern drivers. It might happen again.
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post #4 of 18
4/10/09 at 4:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

Had this on both Intel G45 with Vista and Nvidia 9400M with XP. The G45 was a friend's, and it only did that in my system, not his, so it's some kind of configuration issue; the 9400M did it consistently when I moved away from the video drivers that came with the motherboard and switched to the latest and greatest (you read that right-- video drivers-- the audio drivers had no effect on the situation).

On the 9400M it was something to do with the HDMI LPCM audio rendering, as it was across all audio filters and only manifested when I was not doing Dolby Digital or DTS: LPCM only. I was able to turn off the behavior in a weird way: if I tried to play back a 6-channel 48kHz LPCM file (over only two channels, mind you) and then switched in the middle to a different (two channel) MP3 or WMV, from then onward there was no problem... until I shut down the application... then the fun started all over again.

I have since moved to Vista and it has not recurred, but I have been careful not to install more modern drivers. It might happen again.

That's almost as unbelievable as the problem itself! In my case, video driver is downloaded and HDMI sound is from MoBo CD. I guess I could gut the NVIDIA driver and install the one that came with the MSI video card. I'm just really paranoid about video stuttering. Other than the chipmunk music the system is really working well. Our Sony AV receiver is getting sick. The knob won't switch it to the various input sources. I have to use the remote. Maybe a new network compatible Denon or Yamaha would be better. Honey...
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post #5 of 18
4/11/09 at 12:27am
Not sure reverting back worked. I think I blew away the hard drive and started from a scratch XP install. I hope your problem works out better than mine did.
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post #6 of 18
4/11/09 at 2:08am
HDMI sound device driver? You system does not have any kind of HDMI sound device. Realtek ALC888 onboard audio codec is the only sound playback device of your system. If you connect the internal S/PDIF connector of the mb to the internal S/PDIF connector of your video card, then it's just S/PDIF pass-through over HDMI and its audio is limited to stereo LPCM/DD/DTS. Check your Sound dialog box. It should look like this:


If you connect HDMI out of the video card to TV, then naturally sound must not be good (TV speakers). Doesn't you receiver support HDMI? Then forget about HDMI audio. Use a coaxial or TOSLINK to connect ALC888 to your receiver.

BTW 9400M archibael is talking about is completely different. 9400M has its own HD audio controller supporting multichannel LPCM.
LL
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post #7 of 18
4/11/09 at 3:37am
Thread Starter 
Hey Renethx,

Comments embedded in message below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

HDMI sound device driver? You system does not have any kind of HDMI sound device. Realtek ALC888 onboard audio codec is the only sound playback device of your system. If you connect the internal S/PDIF connector of the mb to the internal S/PDIF connector of your video card, then it's just S/PDIF pass-through over HDMI and its audio is limited to stereo LPCM/DD/DTS. Check your Sound dialog box. It should look like this:

-- Sorry. I stated it wrong. It is exactly as you say and the sound dialog does look just like the pic.


If you connect HDMI out of the video card to TV, then naturally sound must not be good (TV speakers).

-- We're not talking low quality. Honest. It sounds like the old chipmunk songs. For .WMA, .MP2, .MPG, and .WMV (so far). Live TV, .DVR-MS and DVDs are fine. TV sound is not as good as when played through the receiver of course but both have the same issue. The problem is in the PC.

-- Oh yeah. "Windows sounds" (sounds outside of media center) and media center sounds (other than live TV, Recorded TV, and DVDs) sound wrong too.

Doesn't you receiver support HDMI?

-- No it is too old. Only Coax and TOSLINK.

Then forget about HDMI audio. Use a coaxial or TOSLINK to connect ALC888 to your receiver.

-- I have the TV connected to the Sony with TOSLINK. It passes the sound through. The TV and the receiver have exactly the same issues. The sound must be "processed" in the TV. If I have both the TV AND receiver volume up, there is an echo.

BTW 9400M archibael is talking about is completely different. 9400M has its own HD audio controller supporting multichannel LPCM.

-- Yes. Mine is just a video card.

This is got me pretty frustrated! Thanks for the comments.
Terry
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post #8 of 18
4/11/09 at 3:52am
I recommend you to connect onboard audio codec ALC888 to the receiver directly via a coaxial or optical cable. Then at least you can eliminate the possible unwanted "processing" inside TV. HDMI audio is simply meaningless (no support for multichannel LPCM, let alone bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA) except for the physical convenience of single cable for video/audio.

You can build your own coaxial S/PDIF bracket: buy RCA COMPOSITE VIDEO 2.5' - PANEL F TO 1X3 F, $6.30, from FRONTX and attach it to an empty PCI bracket by drilling a hole.


You may also be able to find ASUS S/PDIF module (that can be used with any motherboard of any brand).
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post #9 of 18
4/11/09 at 4:07am
Thread Starter 
A little more information.

1. Real (not ripped) CD's also play with chipmunk sound where DVDs play normal as stated earlier.

2. Besides the PC connected via HDMI, the TV also has a DirecTV HD DVR and a Panasonic Blu Ray player. These work correctly. No sound issues with either. A CD played on the BD player sounds normal. Both on TV or passed through to Sony AV receiver (other than obvious reduced fidelity on TV). But no chipmunks!

It seems the problem is in the PC. Driver, or CODEC or something.
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post #10 of 18
4/11/09 at 4:20am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I recommend you to connect onboard audio codec ALC888 to the receiver directly via a coaxial or optical cable. Then at least you can eliminate the possible unwanted "processing" inside TV.

-- I may just do this.

HDMI audio is simply meaningless (no support for multichannel LPCM, let alone bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA) except for the physical convenience of single cable for video/audio.

-- agreed on convenience.

You can build your own coaxial S/PDIF bracket: buy RCA COMPOSITE VIDEO 2.5' - PANEL F TO 1X3 F, $6.30, from FRONTX and attach it to an empty PCI bracket by drilling a hole.

-- Since there is no reason to do this permanently, I can take a standard RCA cable. Cut one end off and solder the 2-pin SPDIF connector to it.
:
:
:

You may also be able to find ASUS S/PDIF module (that can be used with any motherboard of any brand).

Here's an idea. My "workstation" PC has a different version 9400 card (EVGA vs. MSI). This was the first 9400 card I bought. When I tested the HDMI sound with VMC back last year it behaved a little differently. The MC remote controlled the sound where with the MSI card, the media center sound setting does not affect the sound. 0-50 is all the same. They are both using the same NV video driver package. But the motherboards are not the same. They are similar MSI boards but not the same. Sound driver is from MoBo CD.

I may swap systems to see if this one does the same thing or not. If it doesn't, then I'll swap video cards. Both cards work with VMC for stutter-free video and HDMI sound. Maybe the chipmunks are unique to the MSI video card or that particular sound controller.

Thanks again.
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post #11 of 18
4/11/09 at 4:59am
Music CD is stereo LPCM and is processed by Windows Audio Engine, while audio from DVD and MC recorded TV is either AC3 or DTS and bypassing Windows Audio Engine. You may want to try WASAPI exclusive mode to bypass Windows Audio Engine (so-called "bit perfect" audio). A couple of music players support WASAPI Exclusive mode. For example, ReClock with any DirectShow media player, foobar2000 and J. River Media Center.

Try foobar2000. Download foobar2000 and foo_out_wasapi.dll; place the latter in the folder C:\\Program Files\\foobar2000\\components. In File>Preference>Playback>Output>Output Device, select "WASAPI: Realtek Digital Output (Realtek High Definition Audio)". Set Output data format: 16-bit.

If music sounds good in the WASAPI exclusive mode, then the problem is a bad player/Windows audio settings.
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post #12 of 18
4/11/09 at 1:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Music CD is stereo LPCM and is processed by Windows Audio Engine, while audio from DVD and MC recorded TV is either AC3 or DTS and bypassing Windows Audio Engine. You may want to try WASAPI exclusive mode to bypass Windows Audio Engine (so-called "bit perfect" audio). A couple of music players support WASAPI Exclusive mode. For example, ReClock with any DirectShow media player, foobar2000 and J. River Media Center.

Try foobar2000. Download foobar2000 and foo_out_wasapi.dll; place the latter in the folder C:\\Program Files\\foobar2000\\components. In File>Preference>Playback>Output>Output Device, select "WASAPI: Realtek Digital Output (Realtek High Definition Audio)". Set Output data format: 16-bit.

If music sounds good in the WASAPI exclusive mode, then the problem is a bad player/Windows audio settings.

The primary use of this system is OTA HD recording via media center. I guess I don't want to risk breaking that. The network Yamaha receiver is looking better and better. Thanks again for your help.
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post #13 of 18
4/11/09 at 7:55pm
Sounds like your audio may be playing at a faster sample rate than your card can handle. If you play 44.1Hz (standard CD quality, most music is at this rate) at 48Hz(DVD quality) then you will get the exact results you described and it becomes more and more exaggerated as the difference in sample rates grow.

As far as fixing it, I don't know...maybe check the properties of your realtek and see if there is an option to change the sample rate and set it to 44.1Hz.
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post #14 of 18
4/12/09 at 4:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illiterature View Post

Sounds like your audio may be playing at a faster sample rate than your card can handle. If you play 44.1Hz (standard CD quality, most music is at this rate) at 48Hz(DVD quality) then you will get the exact results you described and it becomes more and more exaggerated as the difference in sample rates grow.

As far as fixing it, I don't know...maybe check the properties of your realtek and see if there is an option to change the sample rate and set it to 44.1Hz.

I think you're onto the problem. With media center running playing the ripped CD track, the only sample rate that produces any sound is 48 KHz DVD 16-bit. All other settings are silent! That doesn't make since. I've watched the countdown timer and timed it for a few seconds and a second seems like a second. I'll time a whole song and see if the run time is 44.1/48 ths of what it says.

But then how do I fix it? If I change the sample rate while media center is playing the CD track, I get an "unexpected error". I can restart the track and it still plays chipmunk still. Sounds like the problem is in the Realtek HD audio driver. But I don't want to break MC for TV. And I don't normally have a keyboard and mouse connected so it is not practical to change settings when changing "activities". I'll mess with it more.
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post #15 of 18
4/12/09 at 5:48am
The latest Realtek driver is R2.21 (April 2, 2009).

Perhaps you hardly breaks MC for TV by manipulating audio. The reason why I recommend the WASAPI exclusive mode is exactly to avoid unwanted processing done by Windows Audio Engine. Audio samples from the player are sent directly to the audio driver unmolested.
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post #16 of 18
4/12/09 at 8:48am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The latest Realtek driver is R2.21 (April 2, 2009).

Perhaps you hardly breaks MC for TV by manipulating audio. The reason why I recommend the WASAPI exclusive mode is exactly to avoid unwanted processing done by Windows Audio Engine. Audio samples from the player are sent directly to the audio driver unmolested.

Would I be able to use this WASPI exclusive solution for MC if it works? I don't really want to use another application for music since MC is controlled only be the remote (except for maintenance operations like defragging). I suppose I could try updating Realtek driver. Thanks.
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post #17 of 18
4/15/09 at 8:10pm
Did you have any luck fixing your problem?

One solution is to buy a relatively cheap sound card at Newegg that can handle the different sample rates. I think Turtle Beach sells a good low price one there for around 30 to 45 bucks.
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post #18 of 18
10/14/09 at 6:34pm
Thread Starter 
All,
I am running short of disk space on our main PC. The one with the "chipmunk" music sound problem.
I decided to do a clean install of Vista on to a 120 GB IDE drive so I would have all 4 SATA connectors for 1TB drives. The DVD burner is also IDE.

Installed it and guess what? Chipmunk sound is gone. Live TV, Recorded TV and .WMA music files all play correcty. Cool! Now I can stream music from my server and do what the $1000+ network receivers do.

I think the problem was some reminent of the HD3870, HD3450, HD 4350 and a couple of other HDMI video cards. Even though I used driver cleaner, something must have been left over. Clean install with NVIDIA 9400 driver and everything is working. I get DD 5.1 and DTS from appropriate MC sources and good old two-channel PCM 48KHz from the .WMA files. And at the right speed!

I really can't find any difference in the settings of the sound stuff. It just works now after the clean install.

Terry

Illiterature, sorry I missed your question/suggestion above. But here's the answer.
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