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Cleveland, OH - HDTV - Page 89

post #2641 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

My reception of 23 & 49 was lousy from 7Hills. There was a bar down the middle of the analog picture that would not go away no matter where I moved my antenna. This is an indication of terrain obstruction.

That terrain you're talking about is obvious when you're driving down I-77 into Akron from Cleveland. Right around Bath Township, you can look down on channel 49's tower from the higher ground.
post #2642 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

That terrain you're talking about is obvious when you're driving down I-77 into Akron from Cleveland. Right around Bath Township, you can look down on channel 49's tower from the higher ground.

The location of Akron's antenna farm was decided when the only station was WAKR-49. It was an ABC affiliate and they had to "protect" WEWS exclusive ABC programming in Cuyahoga County. Unfortunately when WAKR moved to 23 and ch 49 became PBS WEAO the tower location remained on the west end in the shadow of Bath/Richfield. Ch 67 (47 analog predecessor) moved from Stark county to Portage County and is unaffected by the "shadow". 29 is near there too. Too bad 23 & 49 could not join 47 in Portage County, they could have covered Cuyahoga County better.
post #2643 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

The location of Akron's antenna farm was decided when the only station was WAKR-49. It was an ABC affiliate and they had to "protect" WEWS exclusive ABC programming in Cuyahoga County. Unfortunately when WAKR moved to 23 and ch 49 became PBS WEAO the tower location remained on the west end in the shadow of Bath/Richfield. Ch 67 (47 analog predecessor) moved from Stark county to Portage County and is unaffected by the "shadow". 29 is near there too. Too bad 23 & 49 could not join 47 in Portage County, they could have covered Cuyahoga County better.

Or Not... wait I'm not in Cuyahoga County!

I remember 23 WAKR being an ABC affiliate, not sure when 49 became PBS, When I lived in Maple Heights I would get 23, then later 21, but never 49.
post #2644 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I was talking about the analog 55 when they first went on the air. I would later find out that their first tower was Carl Smith's stick on Snowville RD. In Brecksville near the Turnpike & 77. Technically in Cuyahoga County but not high enough up, and farther south than the rest of the Cleveland transmitters, to reach over some terrain obstructions. Ironically I saw ch 55 on a small TV in a Midas Muffler Shop on Lake Shore Blvd. in Willowick (even further away from Brecksville). Today's digital 55 is much closer to Euclid on W. Ridgewood DR. in Parma between WOIO and WQHS.

Ooops! Sorry, my bad

I only moved to Ohio in 2005, so I am not familiar with the old days of Cleveland tv, just the old days of Denver tv.
post #2645 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTA Newbie View Post

Ooops! Sorry, my bad

I only moved to Ohio in 2005, so I am not familiar with the old days of Cleveland tv, just the old days of Denver tv.

55 that old?? .. has it been that long?

I know I didn't get 55 out here untill they did some kind ogf a major power bump or antenna height change even after it was on the farm.... Surprised it was even receivable in Willowick/Wickliffe at that time because of the ridge.
post #2646 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

55 that old?? .. has it been that long?

I know I didn't get 55 out here untill they did some kind ogf a major power bump or antenna height change even after it was on the farm.... Surprised it was even receivable in Willowick/Wickliffe at that time because of the ridge.

WBNX started in 1985 (I was only 2 at the time, so I don't remember) and broadcasted from a tower in Brecksville, but the tower is not that tall for a TV station. Right now, that tower is used for 93.1 WZAK, 96.5 Kiss FM, and WTAM 1100. The tower works fine for radio stations, but TV stations must be higher.

I remember having reception issues a lot back in the '90's with their analog signal. I always had problems with ghosting in the Akron area. WBNX used to be among the weaker channels. In 2000, they switched to the tallest tower at the Parma antenna farm. And today, they have the most power of all the Cleveland locals.
post #2647 of 3985
I could very well be wrong but I have this memory of the WAKR-49 tower being located on top the First National Bank building in downtown Akron. I believe the switch to 23 occurred when the Rolling Acres tower complex was built.
post #2648 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

WBNX started in 1985 (I was only 2 at the time, so I don't remember) and broadcasted from a tower in Brecksville, but the tower is not that tall for a TV station. Right now, that tower is used for 93.1 WZAK, 96.5 Kiss FM, and WTAM 1100. The tower works fine for radio stations, but TV stations must be higher.

I remember having reception issues a lot back in the '90's with their analog signal. I always had problems with ghosting in the Akron area. WBNX used to be among the weaker channels. In 2000, they switched to the tallest tower at the Parma antenna farm. And today, they have the most power of all the Cleveland locals.

Not much has changed on that tower over the years other than the addition of 96.5 which used to be in Cuyahoga Falls and is still technically an Akron market station (in radio Cleveland and Akron are separate markets). I used to work at WRDZ AM 1260 back in '89 - '91. Their studio was on the 2nd floor of Carl Smith's building where this tower is located. We used to get crosstalk from WTAM (then still "3WE"), in fact when the humidity was just right you could hear 3WE resonate off the gutters of the house next door. How would you like to live there? On Sunday evenings at precisely 6 PM The Illuminating Co. would change generators, I could hear a loud clunk and feel a vibration in that building that was pulling 50 KW for 3WE plus whatever WZAK and WBNX was pulling off the grid. It was a cool place to be if you were a broadcast geek. They had a Faraday Cage on the first floor (a grounded enclosure where no outside radio waves could penetrate). They used the cage to test transmitter antennae. Carl Smith was a broadcasting engineer consultant. His son worked in the that shop and would be there many weekends when I was board-oping upstairs.
post #2649 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

Not much has changed on that tower over the years other than the addition of 96.5 which used to be in Cuyahoga Falls and is still technically an Akron market station (in radio Cleveland and Akron are separate markets). I used to work at WRDZ AM 1260 back in '89 - '91. Their studio was on the 2nd floor of Carl Smith's building where this tower is located. We used to get crosstalk from WTAM (then still "3WE"), in fact when the humidity was just right you could hear 3WE resonate off the gutters of the house next door. How would you like to live there? On Sunday evenings at precisely 6 PM The Illuminating Co. would change generators, I could hear a loud clunk and feel a vibration in that building that was pulling 50 KW for 3WE plus whatever WZAK and WBNX was pulling off the grid. It was a cool place to be if you were a broadcast geek. They had a Faraday Cage on the first floor (a grounded enclosure where no outside radio waves could penetrate). They used the cage to test transmitter antennae. Carl Smith was a broadcasting engineer consultant. His son worked in the that shop and would be there many weekends when I was board-oping upstairs.

No relation to Dave Smith over at WCLQ (Or WQHS) at the time? eh Smith has gotta be a common name.

In my travels this past week I found one of these for sale at a usables store...

Princeton Arcadia AR3.0CTW - 32" CRT TV

http://reviews.cnet.com/direct-view-...-30565567.html

Interesting piece of equipment, I can't find if it had a Tuner, but it's predacessor did have a ASTC tuner on board.
post #2650 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

No relation to Dave Smith over at WCLQ (Or WQHS) at the time? eh Smith has gotta be a common name.

In my travels this past week I found one of these for sale at a usables store...

Princeton Arcadia AR3.0CTW - 32" CRT TV

http://reviews.cnet.com/direct-view-...-30565567.html

Interesting piece of equipment, I can't find if it had a Tuner, but it's predacessor did have a ASTC tuner on board.

If it's described as a "monitor" chances are there is no tuner.

Why bother with this HD CRT when superior HD screens are available at reasonable prices (not to mention much lighter - those HD CRT's weigh a ton).
post #2651 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

If it's described as a "monitor" chances are there is no tuner.

Why bother with this HD CRT when superior HD screens are available at reasonable prices (not to mention much lighter - those HD CRT's weigh a ton).

The description claims it has a Tuner, & I'm assuming it's a ASTC, since that was it's predecessor had, no mention of an analog tuner on that one. It did have an antenna jack too, though since my eyesight is shot I couldn't read the details on the back.

It was $50, though more in my price range I still can't lift it, it was an unusual looking set a wide screen CRT with a parabolic tube, no projection for the picture tube in the rear, a metal cabinet, & this one had handles though so if I could get a second person to help I a lot easier to move. No, I wouldn't buy this I really need something I can move myself. Really I was curious on this sets history & manufacturer.

Still sitting looking at my cantankerous Sony, last night it only took 16 minutes to get the picture on it!!, perhaps it's getting well!

Edit .. my bad it says it has a tv tuner presence, but nothing by the tuner, though it did have a rf input, perhaps not the exact model, this was the closest I could find & looks like it.
post #2652 of 3985
The paper this morning had a full page ad for what looked like an indoor space age antennna hiping that you can get OTA stations for free without paying for cable or satellite.You have to call a phone number to get info. Sounds like another one of those "deals" to me. I assume someone will try it.
JJK
post #2653 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

We used to get crosstalk from WTAM (then still "3WE"), in fact when the humidity was just right you could hear 3WE resonate off the gutters of the house next door. How would you like to live there?

I remember hearing WTAM audio faintly in the background of a phone conversation I was having on a land line about 15 years ago. I'm not sure why.
post #2654 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

The paper this morning had a full page ad for what looked like an indoor space age antennna hiping that you can get OTA stations for free without paying for cable or satellite.You have to call a phone number to get info. Sounds like another one of those "deals" to me. I assume someone will try it.
JJK

In the Newspaper or the back of a comic book?

Free OTA TV? No telling who will fall for such a scam!
post #2655 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

I remember hearing WTAM audio faintly in the background of a phone conversation I was having on a land line about 15 years ago. I'm not sure why.

I used to get WHK on my landline when I lived in Seven Hills. Their transmitter was ~1 mile due south of my house.

Were either you or the other party in Brecksville or Richfield/Boston Twp.(western end)? Much like my problem with WHK I could only imagine how much farther WTAM's signal could interfere. As the tower was right on the county line, the interference could happen on either Richfield (659) or Brecksville (526) exchanges (yes I realize there are many more exchanges in those areas today).
post #2656 of 3985
I had one of those HD CRT Sony tvs. Gave it to my uncle and it is still working after 9years. It weighed 206 pounds.There were some slight linearity problems that normal people could care less about. The linearity of the LCD tvs is about 10,000% better, maybe perfect with only 2.5% overscan.
JJK
post #2657 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

I had one of those HD CRT Sony tvs. Gave it to my uncle and it is still working after 9years. It weighed 206 pounds.There were some slight linearity problems that normal people could care less about. The linearity of the LCD tvs is about 10,000% better, maybe perfect with only 2.5% overscan.
JJK

Never had seen a 16:9 CRT that was parabolic, the ones I seen are the Flat Tube. Not sure if it worked, but for $50 I would think it would had tested ok.

Just all too unusual looking, I first thought it may had come from Europe or Austrailia.
post #2658 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by HilltopStudios View Post

I could very well be wrong but I have this memory of the WAKR-49 tower being located on top the First National Bank building in downtown Akron.

Since no one else seemed to remember this I decided to do a search and managed to verify my memory wasn't faulty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WVPX-TV

Also, current 49 transmitter is not located at the Rolling Acres site but is actually 3 miles NE of it along Cleveland-Massilon road in Copley Twp.
post #2659 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by HilltopStudios View Post

I could very well be wrong but I have this memory of the WAKR-49 tower being located on top the First National Bank building in downtown Akron. ..........

I visited the transmitter room at the top of the bank building in around 1980 plus or minus. But I don't remember if they were on ch. 49 or 23.
post #2660 of 3985
Carl Smith engineering as been around forever. I believe that I met one or more of the next generation Smith's back in the 1980's.
post #2661 of 3985
When I started at AM 1260, first WDOK-AM then WIXY-1260 both the studio and transmitter were on Rockside Road. Later the studio moved to downtown Cleveland on Euclid Avenue.
post #2662 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post

When I started at AM 1260, first WDOK-AM then WIXY-1260 both the studio and transmitter were on Rockside Road. Later the studio moved to downtown Cleveland on Euclid Avenue.

By the time I worked for WRDZ (several ownerships after WIXY) the studio was Carl Smith's 2nd floor studio which was the original studio for WCRF-FM.

The daytime pattern was the Rockside Rd. transmitter, however the nighttime pattern was on Snowville Rd. along I-77 south of Miller Rd. One evening the young board op on duty turned on the nighttime transmitter without shutting off the daytime transmitter. This resulted in dueling 5K transmitters spaced ~9 miles apart. I was in Euclid driving in my car when I heard the phasey mess and called the station to warn them. That's what you get when you hire board ops fresh out of broadcasting school at minimum wage.
post #2663 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post

I visited the transmitter room at the top of the bank building in around 1980 plus or minus. But I don't remember if they were on ch. 49 or 23.

I remember WAKR always on 23, back to the early 70's, perhaps late 60's, they were an ABC affiliate then, & at times offered alternative programming to WEWS.

I thought their calls changed to WAKC for a short period right before becoming WVPX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HilltopStudios View Post

Also, current 49 transmitter is not located at the Rolling Acres site but is actually 3 miles NE of it along Cleveland-Massilon road in Copley Twp.

I imagine at a lower elevation... 3 miles closer to me, yet the hardest signal to pick up out of the 3 now.
post #2664 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

I imagine at a lower elevation... 3 miles closer to me, yet the hardest signal to pick up out of the 3 now.

I live in between the 3 Akron area TV towers. The towers are WDLI (RF Channel 49), WVPX (RF Channel 23), and WEAO (RF Channel 50)... all on different towers. WOIO's Akron transmitter on RF channel 24 is on the same tower as WVPX.

WEAO is just to the north of me about 1 mile, WDLI is about 1 mile to the east, and WVPX is about 2 miles to the east of me. Where I live, I get a lot of FM interference caused by WQMX, WONE, WKSU, and WZIP. It really causes a mess on the FM dial, and I can't receive many distant FM stations because of this. In fact, every time I drive past WEAO's tower (which is every day I drive to work), it causes static on nearly all the Cleveland FM stations on my car radio. I even get interference from 102.5, which is Air 1, on other frequencies, and that's only 10 watts.
post #2665 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

(portion snipped) In fact, every time I drive past WEAO's tower (which is every day I drive to work), it causes static on nearly all the Cleveland FM stations on my car radio. I even get interference from 102.5, which is Air 1, on other frequencies, and that's only 10 watts.

Sounds like it may be your car radio? I had a car some years back, every time I would even go within maybe 5 miles of the Parma antenna farm, any station I was listening to, even strong local stations would cut out, get static, mix in with another station, etc., the radio didn't handle overload well. I think that capability in a tuner is called some kind of image rejection. Especially if you're getting this from a TV station and a 10 watt FM station. I have a different car and radio now, that's normal, where I don't get any interference, except, as, I have a friend who worked at WCLV as a board-op on weekends, and I'd go see him when WCLV was at the radio ranch in Warrensville Hts. On the station's property is the stick for The Fish and what's now The Fan. I'd often listen to weaker stations at the time like 94.1 in Canton. As soon as I'd turn into the approx. half mile side street off Emery that WCLV was on, I'd notice more and more hiss covering up the weak station, and by the time I got to WCLV's driveway, the hiss was completely over-riding the weak station(s). However the strong local stations seemed mostly unaffected, and I'd park right next to the fence that said not to trespass - RF danger. In fact, the studio has a Faraday cage built in to it's design to protect the workers inside from the RF from the tower immediately outside. In fact I used to joke with my buddy, as he was the only one there at night, and he had to come and unlock the door to let me in, and sometimes he had to finish programming an event and I'd say "Hurry up, let me in, I'm getting a bad sunburn out here! In fact I smell something cooking. It's me!" and it was dark outside!
post #2666 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post

I visited the transmitter room at the top of the bank building in around 1980 plus or minus. But I don't remember if they were on ch. 49 or 23.

Channel 49 from the bank building... I believe they simulcast 23/49 for a period of time...
post #2667 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

I thought their calls changed to WAKC for a short period right before becoming WVPX.

Group One had to change the call of the TV from WAKR to WAKC after they sold off the AM/FM (WAKR/WONE)... Call changed to WVPX after the Paxson Comm takeover...
post #2668 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannykewl View Post

Sounds like it may be your car radio? I had a car some years back, every time I would even go within maybe 5 miles of the Parma antenna farm, any station I was listening to, even strong local stations would cut out, get static, mix in with another station, etc., the radio didn't handle overload well. I think that capability in a tuner is called some kind of image rejection. Especially if you're getting this from a TV station and a 10 watt FM station. I have a different car and radio now, that's normal, where I don't get any interference, except, as, I have a friend who worked at WCLV as a board-op on weekends, and I'd go see him when WCLV was at the radio ranch in Warrensville Hts. On the station's property is the stick for The Fish and what's now The Fan.

Upon returning to this area from out west with a antenna amp installed in the car (they worked great out there), I noted so much crosstalk, & distortion, especially on that stretch of I-271 near Orange/Warrensville, ironically is that where WCLV is?

I had to eventually remove the antenna amp from the car, as the bypass had the oppsite effect. The Pioneer Supertuner performed great otherwise, the antenna amp in certain areas caused overloading. 92.3 would come in all over the dial near that stretch & a few other places.
post #2669 of 3985
WAKR-TV 49 moved down the dial to 23 December 1, 1967. 23 had at one time been licensed to a WMAC-23 in Massillon. Their plans were to build a studio/tower in the Perry Drive/12th Street area (Whipple Heights) between Canton and Massillon. They never even got that far and the license was deleted in 1960.
post #2670 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

Upon returning to this area from out west with a antenna amp installed in the car (they worked great out there), I noted so much crosstalk, & distortion, especially on that stretch of I-271 near Orange/Warrensville, ironically is that where WCLV is?

I had to eventually remove the antenna amp from the car, as the bypass had the oppsite effect. The Pioneer Supertuner performed great otherwise, the antenna amp in certain areas caused overloading. 92.3 would come in all over the dial near that stretch & a few other places.

You can see the stick from I-271, maybe about a 1000 feet off the freeway to the east, and it would be just south of Harvard and north of Emery and Miles. Actually that stick carries The Fish, and The Fan. I know the Fish is 31KW ERP, the fan prolly a little less, plus there's other services on that stick. That used to be WCLV's tower until the frequency swap of 2001, when WCLV's antenna and transmitter ended out in or around Avon somewhere, but they kept their studios there for a few more years, know as the "Radio Ranch". WCLV's studio's are now downtown in the Idea Stream building along with WVIZ and WCPN. So yes, that was why you were getting all that interference in that area, and Orange starts just immediately east of that stick.
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