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post #2941 of 3452
7/30/12 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

T is for Television.
- Trip

TY trip, I kinda figured redundancy here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

The Canadian switch to digital mainly occurred at the end of August last year, except for some smaller markets which were allowed to continue analog for an undefined amount of time. That's really a separate issue from the fact that CBC is actually completely shutting down 607 of their OTA TV transmitters across Canada. There won't be anything to replace them. Many people with antennas will be out of luck. The London Ontario market is one of them, surprisingly. The CBC is blaming the fact that most people receive the CBC through cable or satellite and that OTA is outdated. The CBC in Windsor will remain on OTA channel 9.

My bad from the description of the pdf I thought it was an analog shutdown, I knew Canada was behind us in transition.

Probably a move the Cable industry was hoping for! Most people I know really rather would pay for something that could ideally get for free anyway.
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post #2942 of 3452
7/30/12 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

So that is strictly a UHF setup? In my experiments with indoor antennas only would bring in the big 3 , 3 & 5 could be a problem depending on where the antenna was positioned.

UHF only... a few inches can make a big difference at UHF frequencies... I had some success on VHF with a combined pair of amplified "rabbit ear" antennas...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Lones View Post

With an old Terk indoor antenna (broken VHF) positioned just right with a converter box (either RCA or Dish) I usually get 17, 23, 27, 39, 45, 47, and 49..

You're pretty low there in south Canton... using a little 7" Haier portable TV that has a very sensitive front end and outperforms the old DTV boxes (it's on par with or better than a Vizio TV)... Marcs closed them out at $22, wish I had bought a couple of them... -Ed
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post #2943 of 3452
7/30/12 at 3:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

It looks like Canada is having a big shutdown of 607 of their analog CBC OTA channels across the country beginning July 31st (tomorrow). That's a shutdown with no replacement. Here's a list... http://cbc.radio-canada.ca/_files/cbcrc/documents/analogue-tv/analogue-transmitters-emetteurs-analogiques.pdf
The list includes CBC channels in London, Chatham, and Sarnia, which I know some have received along the lake.

I may be wrong but after a quick look at the list, I would guess that most or maybe all of these are analog translators. I also read that the TVO network in Canada is doing the same thing 7/31/12. http://about.tvo.org/who-we-are/digital-over-air-transition.

CBC, TVO, Global and CHCH stations are all on the same tower in several instances according to what I've read and apparently there is some controversy regarding this general shutdown. This link has much more info on all of this: http://www.broadcastermagazine.com/news/crtc-approves-cbc-application-to-remove-all-analog-transmitters/1001548989/

Sorry about some earlier erroneous info that I posted and removed. I was thinking of Shaw not Rogers systems.
Edited by rluyster - 7/30/12 at 4:08pm
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post #2944 of 3452
7/30/12 at 8:40pm
was just on rabbit ears and noticed that W35AX is really close to CHWI-TV in WHEATLEY, ON like 63-64 miles away on channel 16 and also noticed there has been no letter sent to industry canada like there was with WRAP-LP ( http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=23350 ) is it starting to look like its going to be denied
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post #2945 of 3452
7/30/12 at 9:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoniez View Post

was just on rabbit ears and noticed that W35AX is really close to CHWI-TV in WHEATLEY, ON like 63-64 miles away on channel 16

NP, they can null 16 to the North/Northeast, with LP shouldn't be a issue. WSEE is also on 16 RF.

Was there a target date for W35AX to go digital?
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post #2946 of 3452
7/30/12 at 9:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoniez View Post

was just on rabbit ears and noticed that W35AX is really close to CHWI-TV in WHEATLEY, ON like 63-64 miles away on channel 16

NP, they can null 16 to the North/Northeast, with LP shouldn't be a issue. WSEE is also on 16 RF.

Was there a target date for W35AX to go digital?
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post #2947 of 3452
7/30/12 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

... using a little 7" Haier portable TV that has a very sensitive front end and outperforms the old DTV boxes (it's on par with or better than a Vizio TV)... ... -Ed

Ouch, you say Vizio has a good tuner? ... now you tell me! .. darn!
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post #2948 of 3452
7/31/12 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rluyster View Post

I may be wrong but after a quick look at the list, I would guess that most or maybe all of these are analog translators. I also read that the TVO network in Canada is doing the same thing 7/31/12. http://about.tvo.org/who-we-are/digital-over-air-transition.

CBC, TVO, Global and CHCH stations are all on the same tower in several instances according to what I've read and apparently there is some controversy regarding this general shutdown. This link has much more info on all of this: http://www.broadcastermagazine.com/news/crtc-approves-cbc-application-to-remove-all-analog-transmitters/1001548989/
Sorry about some earlier erroneous info that I posted and removed. I was thinking of Shaw not Rogers systems.

I think these are all analog translators. But some of these cover some large markets, including London which is nearly 400,000 people. That's why I was surprised that they were getting rid of that OTA channel. This shows that fewer people are using OTA to receive their TV. The cable and satellite companies are probably excited about this. The CBC has left their channels unencrypted via free to air satellite, but you need to have a 6' dish just to get the channels. It wouldn't be so bad if they had a small Ku dish option for free to air.
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post #2949 of 3452
7/31/12 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

I think these are all analog translators. But some of these cover some large markets, including London which is nearly 400,000 people. That's why I was surprised that they were getting rid of that OTA channel..

I'm one of those folks who've picked up CBLN/40 on this side of the lake, mostly in summertime.

However, when the CBC originally announced this plan, they shut down channel 40, and moved CBLN for the year to a lower-powered analog facility on channel...23. I don't need to drive up to Geneva-on-the-Lake to know that one isn't making it across the lake, for obvious reasons smile.gif

So really, CBLN disappeared for cross-lake viewers a year ago.
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post #2950 of 3452
8/1/12 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

I'm one of those folks who've picked up CBLN/40 on this side of the lake, mostly in summertime.
However, when the CBC originally announced this plan, they shut down channel 40, and moved CBLN for the year to a lower-powered analog facility on channel...23. I don't need to drive up to Geneva-on-the-Lake to know that one isn't making it across the lake, for obvious reasons smile.gif
So really, CBLN disappeared for cross-lake viewers a year ago.

I hadn't been able to pick up that channel in years since I've moved around. I just find it odd that Canada is beginning to abandon OTA in favor of paid services. CBC and TVO are both doing this. It's surprising coming from the government funded CBC. I know the CBC broadcasts for free if you have a minimum 6' satellite dish. For most people that's not a possibility. You can receive HD broadcasts of several CBC stations across the country like Halifax, Toronto, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Vancouver. This will probably be my next project. The cost isn't too bad... about $180 for the dish.
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post #2951 of 3452
8/1/12 at 12:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

..... You can receive HD broadcasts of several CBC stations across the country like Halifax, Toronto, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Vancouver. This will probably be my next project. The cost isn't too bad... about $180 for the dish.

Can you give us a little more info on this? Thanks! smile.gif
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post #2952 of 3452
8/1/12 at 12:44pm
I am preparing to install an antenna in my attic. I just have to wrap some wiring up and then I'll be ready. Here is my TV Fool report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d99006669c6a31f

I want to get as many of the stations in the Parma area as possible plus I want the ION station out of Akron (23). My plan is to locate the antenna near and point it out of the gable on the west end of the house.

So what kind of kit would you guys suggest. All the cable runs are new (<2 years old) quad shielded RG6. I have a PCT unity amplifier that I use to distribute cable in the house right now. That sits in the basement. I figured I might need an amp up by the antenna to handle the run down to the distribution amp (which from my understanding has just enough amplification to overcome the insertion loss). There are three distribution points for the signal, and I might be adding one or two more in the next year or so.

So I need high VHF and UHF, it looks like it should be pretty easy except that the ION network is about 90 degrees off from Parma, so I didn't know if that would be a tall order for a single antenna. I would really like to avoid an antenna rotor.

Thanks,

Mark
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post #2953 of 3452
8/1/12 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rluyster View Post

Can you give us a little more info on this? Thanks! smile.gif

Yes, I'm referring to an FTA C-band satellite dish... you know the big ugly dishes you may see. You buy the dish, receiver, LNB, and coaxial cable, and you're set. A 6' diameter dish is the minimum to begin receiving C-band channels that are unencrypted. The CBC has had a few unencrypted channels for about a year now.

Here's a picture of the type of dish I'm referring to...
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post #2954 of 3452
8/1/12 at 3:40pm
A CBC official noted on another forum that those services will be encrypted in the foreseeable future.

- Trip
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post #2955 of 3452
8/1/12 at 11:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahnnum View Post

I want to get as many of the stations in the Parma area as possible plus I want the ION station out of Akron (23). My plan is to locate the antenna near and point it out of the gable on the west end of the house.
So what kind of kit would you guys suggest. I would really like to avoid an antenna rotor.
Thanks,
Mark

You may want to just try a smaller beam yagi like the Antennacraft 33. I would think you are close enough for the Akron farm anyway. If not try duplexing a small UHF beamed toward Akron. If you can consider a rotor in an attic you are doing much better than me biggrin.gif I don't know how I even got than monster beam up there in my application, let alone correctly orienting it, I'm a few degrees more south than I should be wich pulls some off the wall DX at times. I'll have to cut it up[ to remove it I imagine.

They really should update the TV fool Database, they have both of WVIZ's repeaters working on 38 & 39 respectevely (I guess they gave the Conneaut repeater assignment of 39). A lot of that report was errant.
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post #2956 of 3452
8/2/12 at 5:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahnnum View Post

I am preparing to install an antenna in my attic. I just have to wrap some wiring up and then I'll be ready. Here is my TV Fool report.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d99006669c6a31f
I want to get as many of the stations in the Parma area as possible plus I want the ION station out of Akron (23). My plan is to locate the antenna near and point it out of the gable on the west end of the house.
So what kind of kit would you guys suggest. All the cable runs are new (<2 years old) quad shielded RG6. I have a PCT unity amplifier that I use to distribute cable in the house right now. That sits in the basement. I figured I might need an amp up by the antenna to handle the run down to the distribution amp (which from my understanding has just enough amplification to overcome the insertion loss). There are three distribution points for the signal, and I might be adding one or two more in the next year or so.
So I need high VHF and UHF, it looks like it should be pretty easy except that the ION network is about 90 degrees off from Parma, so I didn't know if that would be a tall order for a single antenna. I would really like to avoid an antenna rotor.
Thanks,
Mark

Directional antennas are always the best performing. Perhaps you can point one in between Parma and Akron and get everything. I also recommend the Antennacraft HBU33.
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post #2957 of 3452
8/2/12 at 7:05am
Ok, I looked at the Antennacraft HBU33, From the specs I can certainly see why that is a good choice. I was browsing a bit more, and from a specification perspective, the Winegard HD7694P appears to also be a good choice with a bit better gain (according to the specs). Looking at the beamwidth (for either the HBU33 or the HD7694P) I think I'll probably need a small UHF only antenna (preferably with a narrow beam, also hopefully inexpensive) to get the ION station out of Akron. Do you guys have any recommendation for that antenna?

To couple two antennas together do I use Winegard CC-7870 Antenna Coupler? Is there a better device that I should use for that?

Finally the amplifier for up by the antenna(s), there are lots of them out there, can anyone recommend a good low noise one? I probably have about 70-100 foot of cable between the attic and the central distribution point in the basement, maybe I don't need an amplifier, but I feel like I do. I have a PCT-VC-9U amplifier at the central distribution point that I am using with TWC in my house right now. I am not sure if that distribution amplifier is appropriate for an antenna signal, so if I need something different, what should I use?

Thanks for all the help,

Mark
Edited by mahnnum - 8/2/12 at 8:11am
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post #2958 of 3452
8/2/12 at 7:51pm
Is 19 &/or 8 (especially 19) running on reduced power again?

No 8 or 19 off my outdoor antenna at all around 6am, no 19 & a very troubleprone 8 on my attic set at the same time.

The tropo was suppose to be good at this time, but no DX up here. possible interference form CFPL, though I saw NO blips from Canada, only on 22 & 38.
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post #2959 of 3452
8/2/12 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

The tropo was suppose to be good at this time, but no DX up here. possible interference form CFPL, though I saw NO blips from Canada, only on 22 & 38.

I logged two Erie, Pa stations this morning... WFXP on RF-22 and WSEE / WBEP on RF-16... almost 150 miles on an amplified indoor UHF antenna... -Ed
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post #2960 of 3452
8/2/12 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahnnum View Post

Finally the amplifier for up by the antenna(s), there are lots of them out there, can anyone recommend a good low noise one?

I'm having good success with a VHF/UHF Antennas Direct PA-18 preamp, 1.8dB noise figure with 15dB gain... www.kitztech.com has lower noise preamps, down to about .4dB NF with 24dB gain... -Ed
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post #2961 of 3452
8/2/12 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

I logged two Erie, Pa stations this morning... WFXP on RF-22 and WSEE / WBEP on RF-16... almost 150 miles on an amplified indoor UHF antenna... -Ed

I see the blips on 16 are getting stronger lately now but yet to lock them. The only Erie I have had sucess locking for long periods is WFXP. I had locked WJET once already, now the WOIO Akron repeater nixed that one.

WBEP.. Buffalo?
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post #2962 of 3452
8/2/12 at 11:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

WBEP.. Buffalo?

It's a subchannel on WSEE (WBEP = WB Erie Pennsylvania)...
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post #2963 of 3452
8/3/12 at 5:24am
Wd8kct:

I question that noise figure of .4 db, in fact I don't believe it. I also question the 1.8 db noise figure. That is in the range of Parametric/Ruby front end receivers used on very large parabolic antennas for radio astronamers. I can see that figure
using solid state very narrow bandwidth (4 megs) but not the bandwidth of the UHF/VHF spectrum. I have had many years experience with 10 meg bandwidth parametric amplifiers ($50,000.00 to $100,000.00 each) in the UHF range with 1.8 db noise figures.
JJK
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post #2964 of 3452
8/3/12 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

A CBC official noted on another forum that those services will be encrypted in the foreseeable future.

One of the Canadian home (small) dish companies is offering free service to customers in certain Canadian cities.

I believe the service basically consists of only the OTA networks (CTV, CBC, Global, etc. and maybe the U.S. OTA channels). You would have to buy the receiver.

It's tied to the address, so it's not available here. (I don't know if it could work through the grey market companies.)

I would LOVE to have a Canadian dish here.
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post #2965 of 3452
8/3/12 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

I question that noise figure of .4 db, in fact I don't believe it. I also question the 1.8 db noise figure.

Yep, I understand... I'm just passing along manufacturers' specs...

I remember my company paying $30,000 for a spectrum analyzer that would only reach 1.8 GHz... and paying around a thousand for 120 degree kelvin LNAs for the C band satellite dishes... I'm seeing some of the popular Mini-Circuit MAR and MAV amplifier devices listed down in the 3dB NF range...
-Ed
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post #2966 of 3452
8/3/12 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

One of the Canadian home (small) dish companies is offering free service to customers in certain Canadian cities.
I believe the service basically consists of only the OTA networks (CTV, CBC, Global, etc. and maybe the U.S. OTA channels). You would have to buy the receiver.
It's tied to the address, so it's not available here. (I don't know if it could work through the grey market companies.)
I would LOVE to have a Canadian dish here.

Used to enjoy watching the Olympics live on the Anik birds, even if it was in French...
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post #2967 of 3452
8/3/12 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

Used to enjoy watching the Olympics live on the Anik birds, even if it was in French...

There's a reason that CBC's coverage was always popular in Detroit (via CBET/9 Windsor).

I don't know how CTV is doing it now, and CTV is not really viewable in Detroit.

I found out today that CBC will do the next two Olympiad.
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post #2968 of 3452
8/5/12 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rluyster View Post

If you're talking about an antenna preamp (as opposed to a distribution amp), I have always understood that it should be installed right at the antenna as that is where the signal is strongest and most interference free. Installing it further down the line serves to amplify interference that may be added by various factors along the way. I know on my antenna setup the installer placed the preamp just about two feet or less below the antenna and rotator. Of course the power supply for it is inside the house near my TV.
Quote from a supplier of these amps: "The goal and purpose of a distribution amplifier is to increase the strength of received signals to a level that is greater than the signal losses associated with the distribution system. To ensure all your devices receive proper strength signals, it’s important that your distribution amplifier be centrally located (relative to distribution lines), since the longer the lines, the more signal loss there will be within the system. TV signal distribution amplifiers are typically mounted indoors, but usually are safe to use outdoors as well. They are designed to distribute signals to multiple outlets within a house, or when there are very long coaxial cable runs to TV outlets. In areas of very weak signals with an off air antenna, you may need to use a preamplifier at the antenna first to increase the signal levels to a distributable level."


I bought a Winegard ANW18700. I installed it today, and lost a bunch of channels. I put the pre-amp about 6" below the antenna, ran 50' of coax down to a 2.4GHz Dual Ground Block. from there it goes into the living room were I installed the power supply and the connection. After there I hooked up a 2-way splitter (5 MHz to 2.4 GHZ). From the splitter there is a 8' coax going into the living room TV and a 30' coax going back outside and into our bedroom TV. I looked online and and problem solved, went on to Winegards website. No luck. I Had to go back on the roof and unhook everything so I could watch TV. Hopefully Someone will have a solution.

Thanks everyone you have been very helpful!
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post #2969 of 3452
8/5/12 at 6:53pm
I think you have the splitter in the wrong location, and that is causing the problem. The splitter goes between the power supply and the preamp. Not after the power supply. And you want a splitter that only allows one port power pass,and the power port is connected to the cable going to the power supply. The power supply RF out port goes to the 1st TV. The other splitter port goes to the 2nd TV. Also, on the passive port going to the 2nd TV, you want to install a DC voltage block. See Denny's Antenna site for a diagram on how to install a splitter with a preamp and use a voltage block.
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post #2970 of 3452
8/5/12 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

I think you have the splitter in the wrong location, and that is causing the problem. The splitter goes between the power supply and the preamp. Not after the power supply. And you want a splitter that only allows one port power pass,and the power port is connected to the cable going to the power supply. The power supply RF out port goes to the 1st TV. The other splitter port goes to the 2nd TV. Also, on the passive port going to the 2nd TV, you want to install a DC voltage block. See Denny's Antenna site for a diagram on how to install a splitter with a preamp and use a voltage block.

This is what I was following. It was from Denny's web site,

Above is a Winegard preamplifier power injector and power supply. This unit is located indoors and requires an electrical outlet. It can be located just a few feet from the mast mounted preamplifier (attic installations) to as much as 150 feet away.

The coax cable on the bottom left is ran to the mast mounted preamplifier To Power Supply connection shown in the above picture on the left.

The coax cable on the bottom right is connected to the power supply and the transformer is plugged into an electrical outlet when the installation is complete. This coax cable can be lengthen to power the unit from a remote location.

The coax cable on the top is ran to the TV or it can be ran to a signal splitter to supply multiple TV's
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