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post #3241 of 3986
hello all,
i would greatly appreciate your help.

recently installed a sony bravia hdtv in basement without a cable box and i am picking up all those channels with strange channel numbers - 84.3, 104.3, etc.

at the same time, i can enter channel 12 and it takes me right there. but if i hit the "channel up" button on the remote, it goes directly to 84.3.

after much digging around on the net, i think it has something to do with a QAM Tuner and all clear channels, but i'm not sure.

could you please let me know what you think and if there is any type of listing of channels that i could get my hands on. thank you very much. very confused here.
post #3242 of 3986
Did you select OTA in the TV menus then do a complete scan?
post #3243 of 3986
Are you trying to get off the air reception? If so you can't use the cable TV feed. You need a separate antenna.

OTOH since you have cable (you did not say which system) you can get certain channels in HD, but without an external cable box most of what you get will be analog SD. The channels that look like FM radio channels (104.3) are QAM. The cable box translates these to numbers you would recognize (i.e. 3, 5 & 8). Some HDTV sets also translates these but the fact you are seeing the QAM numbers tells me your TV is not one of those sets or your cable system is trying to hide the QAM channels in order for you to pay for another box. BTW: without a box all you get are analog and perhaps a few "in the clear" QAM channels. The majority of QAM channels are "scrambled", but at least for a little while longer the FCC makes cable systems put the local stations in the clear on QAM. You may have to learn what 104.3 is (i.e. 3, 5, 8, 19, 43 etc.) also the locals may show up twice - digital SD and a separate digital HD. The subchannels will also be in the clear as SD channels. There are quire a few in the clear QAM channels, all of them are the same channels you could get with an antenna. Keep in mind I live in the COX system area so YMMV.

If your cable system is Time Warner there is a separate forum here just for you.
post #3244 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

Did you select OTA in the TV menus then do a complete scan?
Most flat screen TV automatically scan for both at the same time. Some even translate the QAM channels to their proper channel number (i.e.3.1 for WKYC HD) right next to 3.0 WKYC analog off cable)
post #3245 of 3986
Good stuff from everyone. Thank you.

I have Armstrong Cable by the way.

However, I have a "regular" TV in bedroom that picks up all the standard "non-HD" channels just fine (2-60?). Therefore, why won't the Sondy HDTV get the same? Additionally, when going thru the autoprogram before, it deliniated between "digital" and "analog" channels...ending with 38 digital and 0 analog.

I'm not sure what OTA means, but I plan on re-running the autoprogram again and pay attention to any settings I did not notice before. maybe i missed something.
post #3246 of 3986
OTA = Over The Air (TV antenna)
post #3247 of 3986
OTA = Off The Air. If you did not have cable this would be how you would receive your local stations.

I'm not familiar with how Armstrong does their digital cable, however it appears that your TV did not scan the analog "cable channels" (channels 14-125) and skipped right up to the QAM digital channels.

How does channels 2 - 13 appear? Are there channels like "3.1 and 3.2"? If so those are the digital channels for WKYC (3.0 would be analog). Here in COX land ch 19 is analog ch 4, so any directly connected HDTV that puts the correct digital channels next to the analogs would not get the digital WOIO next to analog 4. Instead it places it at "19.1" next to analog 19.0 which is ABC Family.

NOTE: Normally you would not get any digital versions of "cable networks" unless you subscribed to the digital tier and had a cable box to decode those channels. But you shuld still get all the analogs that are not scrambled. COX has been dropping analog versions of many popular cable networks in order to make more subscribers get the "advanced" cable. Ch 60 may be the highest analog channel but there are a lot of vacated channels between 14 - 60.
post #3248 of 3986
Might be worth checking if there is an option in the menu to scan for 'digital only' and change it to scan both analog and digital. My Panasonic has this and when I do a channel scan it asks if I want to scan analog, digital, or both.
post #3249 of 3986
You're right. I re-scanned last night and did both digital and analog. It picked up all the analog channels I was missing before. I guess I will have to go through the QAM channels and write down each one to make my own "guide" to follow. Some look great, others ok, some poor and I noticed many "repeats" as I would call it. Thanks for you help.
post #3250 of 3986
Repeats could be the same ch in various formats. i.e. analog, digital, SD, HD
post #3251 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by jockey16 View Post

I guess I will have to go through the QAM channels and write down each one to make my own "guide" to follow.

Fair warning, QAM channel assignments tend to change without notice.
post #3252 of 3986
LPTV Canton (WIVM ) is mentioned in this article on TV spectrum repacking:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/nab-to-fcc-repack-is-no-excuse-to-reallocate-/218247
post #3253 of 3986
Jockey, the Cable Company seemed to play musical chairs with these channels while telling consumers they would need a converter box (at additional EZ Monthlies of course) I kept having to find the HD versions for the one neighbor several years back. Occasionally the cable company was showing a newer movie on test channels when I was searching.
post #3254 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

LPTV Canton (WIVM ) is mentioned in this article on TV spectrum repacking:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/nab-to-fcc-repack-is-no-excuse-to-reallocate-/218247

It seems it would make more sense for these lower power stations not broadcasting in HD to band together on one channel (using the subs) anyway, perhaps on a bit higher power, freeing up more allocations. If this selloff occurs, less channels would have an impact on larger metro areas, how is cities like NYC, LA & Miami going to sustain? Remembering back, most cities had more allocations than Cleveland in the past. Aside of Analog 6, I cant pick up any independents where I am at.

Of course we all can just give in & subscribe to cable. ... that's going to be the evident end soloution, & what is being pushed. rolleyes.gif
post #3255 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

It seems it would make more sense for these lower power stations not broadcasting in HD to band together on one channel (using the subs) anyway, perhaps on a bit higher power, freeing up more allocations. If this selloff occurs, less channels would have an impact on larger metro areas, how is cities like NYC, LA & Miami going to sustain? Remembering back, most cities had more allocations than Cleveland in the past. Aside of Analog 6, I cant pick up any independents where I am at.

Of course we all can just give in & subscribe to cable. ... that's going to be the evident end soloution, & what is being pushed. rolleyes.gif
That would be nice, seeing that LPTV stations probably won't use sub channels to air additional programming anyway. WRAP 32 seems to have a good coverage area for their digital application. If it ever makes it on the air, WRAP would be a nice channel to carry the other low power stations here in Cleveland. WCDN could also ditch their RF 7 channel in favor for a stronger, more reliable signal on one of WRAP's subs. WLFM could even simulcast on one of their sub channels also.

32.1 - WRAP
32.2 - W35AX
32.3 - WCDN
32.4 - WLFM

Of course, if this repacking takes place, WRAP would have to relocate off of RF 32.
post #3256 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

That would be nice, seeing that LPTV stations probably won't use sub channels to air additional programming anyway. WRAP 32 seems to have a good coverage area for their digital application. If it ever makes it on the air, WRAP would be a nice channel to carry the other low power stations here in Cleveland. WCDN could also ditch their RF 7 channel in favor for a stronger, more reliable signal on one of WRAP's subs. WLFM could even simulcast on one of their sub channels also.

32.1 - WRAP
32.2 - W35AX
32.3 - WCDN
32.4 - WLFM

Of course, if this repacking takes place, WRAP would have to relocate off of RF 32.
WLFM would never go for this - they are for all intents and purposes a radio station. They would have to cut a deal to get an "HD2" channel from one of the current FM stations.
post #3257 of 3986
Don't forget that more and more people are using their WIFI to watch TV now. It's not just cable that's making OTA less and less popular. Cable is getting to be ridiculously expensive and being replaced by cheaper options like Netflix. I have a Roku box, and it looks like more and more channels are being added. I can watch local news in other cities, and I sometimes watch CBC News too. All I have to do is pay for the internet.
post #3258 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

WLFM would never go for this - they are for all intents and purposes a radio station. They would have to cut a deal to get an "HD2" channel from one of the current FM stations.
I included WLFM since they use to be LP station on 65, and also because WLFM uses analog 6 to broadcast video. There are some TV stations that simulcast radio stations on their sub channels. Around here, WMFD 68.2 uses their own 106.1 WVNO in the background of their weather radar/slide show.
post #3259 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

Don't forget that more and more people are using their WIFI to watch TV now..

WIFI??? is that another LP station? confused.gif

Oh I get it redface.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

It's not just cable that's making OTA less and less popular. Cable is getting to be ridiculously expensive and being replaced by cheaper options like Netflix. I have a Roku box, and it looks like more and more channels are being added. I can watch local news in other cities, and I sometimes watch CBC News too. All I have to do is pay for the internet.

Internet, I'm taking this needs to be the High Speed DSL no doubt?

Roku, is that those boxes that are selling @ the Wal*Mart?? many brands that claim 'free TV', yet it seems to be associated with the internet, since I see the You Toob on the box.... but the also say local TV?
post #3260 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

That would be nice, seeing that LPTV stations probably won't use sub channels to air additional programming anyway. WRAP 32 seems to have a good coverage area for their digital application. If it ever makes it on the air, WRAP would be a nice channel to carry the other low power stations here in Cleveland. WCDN could also ditch their RF 7 channel in favor for a stronger, more reliable signal on one of WRAP's subs. WLFM could even simulcast on one of their sub channels also.

32.1 - WRAP
32.2 - W35AX
32.3 - WCDN
32.4 - WLFM

Of course, if this repacking takes place, WRAP would have to relocate off of RF 32.

This is what I was thinking, amongsty cost savings for sharing the transmitter... is 32 still an allocation here?

I'm not sure where analog 6 is going after the elimination of Analog TV a few years down the road, this may be an option.
post #3261 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post


Internet, I'm taking this needs to be the High Speed DSL no doubt?

Roku, is that those boxes that are selling @ the Wal*Mart?? many brands that claim 'free TV', yet it seems to be associated with the internet, since I see the You Toob on the box.... but the also say local TV?

Yes, high speed internet is needed, DSL, cable, Uverse, FIOS, whatever.

www.Roku.com Local TV supported through services like Hulu. Some are free, some are paid, you get what you pay for. wink.gif
post #3262 of 3986
Hi all, I'm trying to setup our OTA antenna to lower some of our monthly out of pocket. I've already purchased this antenna based on a recommendation from my brother who lives near me and uses it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/310464020303?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649.

I'm not super impressed with it and could be talked into switching if it was necessary. After asking my brother more specific questions once I was more familiar with the setup he said he didn't really use it he streams Hulu!

Right now I'm getting
channel 3 = 25%
5= no signal
8= 50%
17= 41%
19= no signal
21= no signal
23= 80%
43= no signal

Here is a link to my report on TV fool http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d1ddabf46519d1c

So I'm not sure if I need to switch antennas, or use a preamp, or get a better distribution amplifier. I need to send the signal to 3 TVs in the house.

Any suggestions and guidance is greatly appreciated.
post #3263 of 3986
Quote:
Hi all, I'm trying to setup our OTA antenna to lower some of our monthly out of pocket. I've already purchased this antenna based on a recommendation from my brother who lives near me and uses it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/310464020303?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649.

Yet another victim of a cheap, crappy, Chinese antenna.


A small, UHF/high-HF antenna like a C2V or an ANT-751R would do fine. Do NOT use any amplifier as it will likely overload and cause to you lose channels.
post #3264 of 3986
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post


A small, UHF/high-HF antenna like a C2V or an ANT-751R would do fine. Do NOT use any amplifier as it will likely overload and cause to you lose channels.

I don't believe this should be stated categorically as it depends on the antenna, the length of attached cabling, the height of the antenna, the viewer's location, obstructions, the frequency involved etc. etc. I would suggest trying with and without a preamplifier and see which works best. A preamplifier is a must in my location even though the antenna is a fringe area model mounted on a 50' tower.
post #3265 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by rluyster View Post

I don't believe this should be stated categorically as it depends on the antenna, the length of attached cabling, the height of the antenna, the viewer's location, obstructions, the frequency involved etc. etc. I would suggest trying with and without a preamplifier and see which works best. A preamplifier is a must in my location even though the antenna is a fringe area model mounted on a 50' tower.

Interesting about the amplifier, when I first installed the antenna, I plugged the amplifier into the antenna on the roof (using a short coax cable) and ran 1 line down to 1 TV and got all the stations I cared about. Then I moved it down into the house and hooked it to all the TVs and lost most of them. Now if I unplug the amp, I only get 61.1. I just got off the phone with my brother who said he is getting all channels. He lives in Rootstown. I have some long runs (100ft) on 2 of the TVs but the main one is shorter probably 40ft. We are both on the roof of 1 story homes.

For the preamp, do people use both a preamp and a distributor/amplifier? What would be the factors that would determine when to use which?
post #3266 of 3986
Yeah, I don't recommend those goofy looking antennas. My uncle bought one a few years ago for 20 dollars. The cable was hard wired to the unit and it was RG-59! The aluminum elements were very thin and bent easily. The one thing I liked was the built-in rotor, although it was controlled through the cable. It could also be easily turned by hand, so if used outside, a good gust of wind could probably turn it.

Hondaprlud, to further help you, may we ask which city you live in? This can help us in helping you solve reception problems and offer recommendations.

According to the eBay listing you posted, it looks like the cable can be removed. If so, it's recommended that you use RG-6 grade cabling as it is shielded better. Then move the antenna to the highest point in your house and place it in front of a window or an outside wall. See if reception improves after following these steps. If it doesn't, try shutting off the amplifier, if possible. If there is no amplifier on/off setting, you can try unplugging the amplifier, but that may result in "no signal" for every channel. If you still have problems, then you probably need to upgrade to a better antenna, preferably a good VHF/UHF combination outdoor antenna.

EDIT: Just received your latest post. The signal to your additional TV's is weaken due to cable splitters. Think of a cable splitter as a "Y" adapter for your garden hose. When in use, the flow of water is weaken. The more "Y" adapters you use, the weaker the water flow becomes. Cable splitters have a rating printed on them. (900 MHz for example). The higher the rating is, the less signal loss there is. (2.4 GHz is recommended, but cost more). A distributor amp would probably help with long cable runs. Make sure RG-6 cabling is used throughout your house to receive the strongest signal possible.
Edited by snowdog 88 - 3/17/13 at 6:05pm
post #3267 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

Yeah, I don't recommend those goofy looking antennas. My uncle bought one a few years ago for 20 dollars. The cable was hard wired to the unit and it was RG-59! The aluminum elements were very thin and bent easily. The one thing I liked was the built-in rotor, although it was controlled through the cable. It could also be easily turned by hand, so if used outside, a good gust of wind could probably turn it.

Hondaprlud, to further help you, may we ask which city you live in? This can help us in helping you solve reception problems and offer recommendations.

According to the eBay listing you posted, it looks like the cable can be removed. If so, it's recommended that you use RG-6 grade cabling as it is shielded better. Then move the antenna to the highest point in your house and place it in front of a window or an outside wall. See if reception improves after following these steps. If it doesn't, try shutting off the amplifier, if possible. If there is no amplifier on/off setting, you can try unplugging the amplifier, but that may result in "no signal" for every channel. If you still have problems, then you probably need to upgrade to a better antenna, preferably a good VHF/UHF combination outdoor antenna.

Just a little note, NO antenna is capable of receiving signals from 150 miles away, unless the antenna is like 120 feet up in the air or weather conditions are right for tropo/e-skip.

EDIT: Just received your latest post. The signal to your additional TV's is weaken due to cable splitters. Think of a cable splitter as a "Y" adapter for your garden hose. When in use, the flow of water is weaken. The move "Y" adapters you use, the weaker the water flow becomes. Cable splitters have a rating printed on them. (900 MHz for example). The higher the rating is, the less signal loss there is. (2.4 GHz is recommended, but cost more). A distributor amp would probably help with long cable runs. Make sure RG-6 cabling is used throughout your house to receive the strongest signal possible.

I live in Kent on the north side.The cable didn't come attached to the antenna. I didn't use the cable that came with the antenna, I actually reused the one that was already there from the Dish Network dish that I'm replacing. The dish coax cable is labeled RG-6 and was working fine. I just checked the amp/splitter and it's rated @ 900mhz. All of the cabling I'm using is the stuff that was in place with Dish.
post #3268 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaprlud View Post

I live in Kent on the north side.The cable didn't come attached to the antenna. I didn't use the cable that came with the antenna, I actually reused the one that was already there from the Dish Network dish that I'm replacing. The dish coax cable is labeled RG-6 and was working fine. I just checked the amp/splitter and it's rated @ 900mhz. All of the cabling I'm using is the stuff that was in place with Dish.
Ok, the cable installed by Dish is fine. When you were receiving the channels on a single TV, was that a direct connection from the antenna to the TV? (No splitters, recording units, surge protectors, etc.) IIRC, there should be a splitter that Dish installed which would have been right after the satellite dish. That splitter may need to be replaced as it is probably designed and tuned to the frequency of the satellite. I remember seeing a Dish splitter on my neighbor's house. Instead of the input being on the top of the splitter, it was on the bottom next to one of the outputs. The other output was where the input should normally be.

Looking at tvfool.com, you really don’t need the amplification, as the Cleveland/Akron stations are strong enough in your area. The amplification may overload the signal, causing interference and “no signal” messages on your TV. The amp would come in handy should you ever want to receive the Youngstown stations.
post #3269 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

Ok, the cable installed by Dish is fine. When you were receiving the channels on a single TV, was that a direct connection from the antenna to the TV? (No splitters, recording units, surge protectors, etc.) IIRC, there should be a splitter that Dish installed which would have been right after the satellite dish. That splitter may need to be replaced as it is probably designed and tuned to the frequency of the satellite. I remember seeing a Dish splitter on my neighbor's house. Instead of the input being on the top of the splitter, it was on the bottom next to one of the outputs. The other output was where the input should normally be.

Looking at tvfool.com, you really don’t need the amplification, as the Cleveland/Akron stations are strong enough in your area. The amplification may overload the signal, causing interference and “no signal” messages on your TV. The amp would come in handy should you ever want to receive the Youngstown stations.

The single TV connection from the antenna was- antenna-4 ft coax- amplifier that came with antenna- 20 ft coax- coax connector- 50 ft coax to wall plate- into TV

The "layout" of the dish cabling was different than I thought it would be, because the signal was sent separately from the dish to each TV. I assumed it came into the house and split once inside, but it wasn't. It comes off the roof and there are 3 individual connectors outside. So when I did my install I used one of the cables on the roof down to the 3 connectors outside and attached the amp/splitter there.

One of them had a splitter like you mention down line, but I moved the connection over to the side that was labeled UHF (instead of SAT) and it worked as well as the other TVs

Is there a local store that is known for this stuff? I tried Radio Shack and Lowes today and don't think I'm any better off buying there than online.
post #3270 of 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaprlud View Post

The single TV connection from the antenna was- antenna-4 ft coax- amplifier that came with antenna- 20 ft coax- coax connector- 50 ft coax to wall plate- into TV

The "layout" of the dish cabling was different than I thought it would be, because the signal was sent separately from the dish to each TV. I assumed it came into the house and split once inside, but it wasn't. It comes off the roof and there are 3 individual connectors outside. So when I did my install I used one of the cables on the roof down to the 3 connectors outside and attached the amp/splitter there.

One of them had a splitter like you mention down line, but I moved the connection over to the side that was labeled UHF (instead of SAT) and it worked as well as the other TVs

Is there a local store that is known for this stuff? I tried Radio Shack and Lowes today and don't think I'm any better off buying there than online.
I would remove the UHF/SAT splitter and replace it with a coax coupler that has a grounding screw on it. They can be found at Wal-Mart, Radio Shack or Lowes. The 900 MHz splitter that you have in your setup for the other TVs should be fine.
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