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Cleveland, OH - HDTV - Page 111

post #3301 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

Two AM stations in Cleveland broadcast in HD. They are WTAM 1100 and WWMK 1260. WARF 1350 from Akron also broadcasts in HD. I imagine that that you have to be within the red contour service area in order to reliably receive a HD signal on AM according to the coverage maps found at radio-locator.com

Lately I've been trying to pick up an HD AM signal with absolutely no luck. I had no problems last year listening to WTAM, WWMK and WARF HD... but NOTHING now!! Are these stations even using HD anymore? Or is HD dying a slow death? 2006 seemed to be the peak of new HD stations, but since then, it's been downhill. I even noticed WAPS lost its 3 HD side channels.
post #3302 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

Lately I've been trying to pick up an HD AM signal with absolutely no luck. I had no problems last year listening to WTAM, WWMK and WARF HD... but NOTHING now!! Are these stations even using HD anymore? Or is HD dying a slow death? 2006 seemed to be the peak of new HD stations, but since then, it's been downhill. I even noticed WAPS lost its 3 HD side channels.
It appears that both WTAM and WWMK turned off their HD broadcast sometime around the beginning of 2013. I use to get sideband interference on both stations, which was the result of the HD signal. When tuning to an adjacent channel of a station that is broadcasting a HD signal, you should hear what sounds like Niagara Falls, a constant waterfall-like sound effect. So if your radio is on 1090 or 1110, you should be hearing that sound. Due to the low demand and awareness of HD Radio, the AM stations probably shut off their HD transmitters for now. I think that HD on AM is a failure and a big waste of money.

WWMK still mentions HD1 in their hourly ID. I also noticed that WWMK's sound quality is much better now than it was when they were transmitting the HD signal. The frequency response is better and the audio glitching went away.
post #3303 of 3985
Some interesting insights into HD radio and it's continuing problems.

http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/

http://www.current.org/2012/11/slow-growth-for-hd-radio/
post #3304 of 3985
If they decide to cut off analog radio broadcasts like they did to TV, HD Radios will then be mass produced and be selling like hotcakes. biggrin.gif
post #3305 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

If they decide to cut off analog radio broadcasts like they did to TV, HD Radios will then be mass produced and be selling like hotcakes. biggrin.gif

Sure, if/when that happens. Not likely any time soon. wink.gif

Very interesting part of the link I provided was the situation in Canada. The govt provided a simpler "fast track" program for licensing to encourage Canadian broadcasters to offer HD radio programing. Yet, at the time that article was written, not a single Canadian broadcaster even applied for such licensing. Translation: there is no interest in doing so. I'd guess a big part of the lack of interest is they see the abysmal consumer usage and interest in the US and figure "why bother".
post #3306 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

If they decide to cut off analog radio broadcasts like they did to TV, HD Radios will then be mass produced and be selling like hotcakes. biggrin.gif

No

Sirius/XM radios will be selling relativity well.

The rest will be getting their music from iPods and their news from the internet as they have been doing for a few years,
post #3307 of 3985
I just purchased a new MKZ. I got the base car with no additional options. It came with the Sync system which has Sirius but no HD radio!mad.gif

I had no idea that the HD option was just that, an option, and I'd have to spend $2,000 more in a "package" just to get HD radio. It has Sirius (with the resolution of a 64k mp3 tongue.gif). It also cannot tune to 87.7 (the tuner starts at 87.9 tongue.giftongue.gifmad.gif). I would have hoped that HD would be standard and Sirius/XM be an option, but no.

HD radio is failing because it's not mandated by the FCC to be included like UHF was in the early 60's on TV's or FM on radios.
post #3308 of 3985
I just got rid of my SiriusXM subscription on my Ford. I had to jump through hoops when I called to cancel. When I chose the "Cancel my Subscription" option on the phone, they had me on hold for 30 minutes then hung up on me. So next time I called, I chose a different option and got through right away. Then they had to go through their whole script about the great deals they could offer me. I just told them to not waste their time and cancel the subscription. I don't like their business practices anyways. I was speaking with someone in who knows what country... I had a hard time understanding them. I just wish HD radio would have caught on more with the public, but it's all about money in the end. I'm sure satellite radio fought HD radio.

I didn't see any need to keep paying for something I didn't even listen to as much as AM/FM.
post #3309 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I just purchased a new MKZ. I got the base car with no additional options. It came with the Sync system which has Sirius but no HD radio!mad.gif

I had no idea that the HD option was just that, an option, and I'd have to spend $2,000 more in a "package" just to get HD radio. It has Sirius (with the resolution of a 64k mp3 tongue.gif). It also cannot tune to 87.7 (the tuner starts at 87.9 tongue.giftongue.gifmad.gif). I would have hoped that HD would be standard and Sirius/XM be an option, but no.

HD radio is failing because it's not mandated by the FCC to be included like UHF was in the early 60's on TV's or FM on radios.
My uncle just bought a 2013 Escape. Sadly, the radio that came with it doesn't receive HD Radio. If he bought one of the higher end models, it probably would have came with a Sony radio, which would have provided him with HD Radio. He does have the Sirius/XM trial, but he is unsure if he will buy a subscription- he likes the "50's on 5" channel.

I, on the other hand would not think about signing up for Sirius/XM, not when the bit rate is 64 KBPS!!! eek.gif

My portable HD Radio strangely starts at 87.5. Was that done on purpose or was that an error?

Conclusion: Hopefully the FCC won't end analog radio broadcasting, there is no reason too as it won't free up any channels like it did to TV. The only benefit would be higher bit rates and (maybe) better error correction. However every radio (especially in cars) would need to be upgraded or replaced.
post #3310 of 3985
I, too, hope they (FCC) start pushing more towards SOME form of digital terrestrial radio, whether that be something totally new or the existing IBOC system but knock some heads in at Ibiquity and get their licensing costs severely reduced or redacted altogether. Personally I love HD and it has potential. The problem is like any new technology, out of the gate nobody knows how to use it properly and that includes station engineers which explains audio quality concerns many have. Same thing went with ATSC when it first started taking a foothold. Little to no actual 'HD' and what was HD wasn't as good as what we have now. But give it some time and see where the state of digital TV is these days.

I now live in Columbus and one station here has a single HD1 feed and that is 103.5 WNND. The sound quality in HD is AMAZING to say the least. And sadly is the only station to sound this good. And they have a great music selection to boot. Apparently whoever is running the audio processing over there actually has a clue to what they are doing with the HD 'cast. Error correction and improved transmission power would improve reception but sadly you won't see that on HD1's unless things start moving in the direction of HD only broadcasts.
post #3311 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannykewl View Post

Why can't you use your "main" phone? I assume it's an AT&T landline on which you also have DSL? AT&T is supposed to supply you with special filters you put on every jack where you're using a landline phone, and you plug the phones into the filters. It's not like dial-up where you can only use one or the other, you should be able to talk'n'surf at the same time. That 3.0 mbps download speed should be at least 50X faster than dial-up. Now you can see the coverage maps, LOL.

dannykewl, it's a ''repackaged' U-Verse from what I understand with the White/Grey 2 wire modem, not through AT&T but from a 3rd party. They did provide me with plenty of filters, however they could not supply me with a Wall Jack DSL filter for both my Kitchen phone & Workshop phone...... they would have but there was no longer a demand for these & they stopped ordering them. I guess the standard wall phone is a thing of the past.


Bismarck. It took me a little bit to find it, but i have one of those wall mount DSL filters. Its yours if you want it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
post #3312 of 3985
Does anyone here know anything about WOW!s upcoming apps? A WOW! employee stated on dslreports that apps are being made currently but couldn't give details on functionality or release time frame. Just curious if anyone here has any info.
post #3313 of 3985
I just read that Local TV LLC is selling all their stations. The sale began on March 22, though it could take a year for the sale to finalize. (Link)

Since WJW is owned by Local TV, I'm worried that the sale could end the Antenna TV affiliation on 8.2!
post #3314 of 3985
Hello all,

I apologize if this has been discussed; I've researched this year's posts and the antenna forum, but didn't find any answers.

I cut cable last week following yet another price increase. I now use a Roku and get local channels with an indoor antenna. I live in West Akron, not far from Summit Mall, close to Fairlawn Country Club.

My antenna is the Leaf, but today I'm expecting the Ultimate version (amplified) to arrive because I cannot get the basic Leaf to pull anything but a Spanish-speaking station on the bedroom tv. That one I can live without, but my living room tv keeps breaking up with the Leaf. I've worked on the position with no luck. Channel 5 comes in with break-ups if the sky is clear, and channel 8 does not come in at all. (No Big Bang Theory repeats? Really?) After reading your posts, do I understand correctly that Fox 8 does not come in for anyone, or is it just because I'm using an indoor antenna?

I've also tried the Walltenna, but I'm sending that one back. Is there any better indoor antenna for our area? I still have the old outdoor antenna laying out behind the barn, but don't really want to put it back up. (It's big and ugly!) I researched the ANT-751R, which sounds pretty good. The house is still wired for cable and the outside antenna cable is still connected, but would rather stick with an inside, unless I can't get better results with the Leaf Ultimate.

I'm really interested in your thoughts and appreciate any comments or suggestions you may have. I've had cable for 20 years and am not up on all the antenna nomenclature. You are all very informative.

Thanks and take care,
Cate
post #3315 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catedc View Post

Hello all,

I apologize if this has been discussed; I've researched this year's posts and the antenna forum, but didn't find any answers.

I cut cable last week following yet another price increase. I now use a Roku and get local channels with an indoor antenna. I live in West Akron, not far from Summit Mall, close to Fairlawn Country Club.

My antenna is the Leaf, but today I'm expecting the Ultimate version (amplified) to arrive because I cannot get the basic Leaf to pull anything but a Spanish-speaking station on the bedroom tv. That one I can live without, but my living room tv keeps breaking up with the Leaf. I've worked on the position with no luck. Channel 5 comes in with break-ups if the sky is clear, and channel 8 does not come in at all. (No Big Bang Theory repeats? Really?) After reading your posts, do I understand correctly that Fox 8 does not come in for anyone, or is it just because I'm using an indoor antenna?

I've also tried the Walltenna, but I'm sending that one back. Is there any better indoor antenna for our area? I still have the old outdoor antenna laying out behind the barn, but don't really want to put it back up. (It's big and ugly!) I researched the ANT-751R, which sounds pretty good. The house is still wired for cable and the outside antenna cable is still connected, but would rather stick with an inside, unless I can't get better results with the Leaf Ultimate.

I'm really interested in your thoughts and appreciate any comments or suggestions you may have. I've had cable for 20 years and am not up on all the antenna nomenclature. You are all very informative.

Thanks and take care,
Cate
I believe part of the problem is the high terrain in Richfield blocking out the signals between you and the Cleveland transmitters. WJW (RF 8) and WOIO (RF 10) are both on VHF. Digital broadcasts on VHF have proven troublesome for many due to interference and sensitivity. The leaf antenna is UHF only will not receive VHF signals well (or at all). The ANT-751R will probably help with your reception issues and might allow you to receive WJW as it has VHF capabilities. It is recommended that you install a VHF/UHF antenna outside and as high up as possible for optimal reception. Indoor antennas are not going to preform at all where you are at.

If you already receive WOIO, you may be receiving their low-power UHF repeater (RF 24) which is on the WVPX/23 tower. (The one that looks like it has a football goal at the top, north of Rolling Acres Mall). After installing an outdoor antenna, you may see two instances of WOIO.
post #3316 of 3985
Snowdog, thank you for your reply. I set up the Leaf Ultimate and guess what! I get FOX! Both 8-1 (very clear HD) and 8-2 (not HD, but good picture...watching WKRP In Cincinnati right now). Even PBS comes in crystal clear, and this is on the bedroom tv placed in the middle of the house. WOIO is good too. Now, if you have a trick to getting the Indians games, my new tv setup would be complete and I'd be one happy camper!
post #3317 of 3985
Unfortunately unless WKYC has decided to add STO as a subchannel (or even less likely a separate OTA transmitter), you'll only get the games OTA when they are showing on WKYC which is a rare occasion. That's one of the very few reasons I miss when WUAB had airing rights for the Indians.
post #3318 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catedc View Post

Snowdog, thank you for your reply. I set up the Leaf Ultimate and guess what! I get FOX! Both 8-1 (very clear HD) and 8-2 (not HD, but good picture...watching WKRP In Cincinnati right now). Even PBS comes in crystal clear, and this is on the bedroom tv placed in the middle of the house. WOIO is good too. Now, if you have a trick to getting the Indians games, my new tv setup would be complete and I'd be one happy camper!
Glad the Leaf Ultimate is working out for you. (It may support VHF, but the the majority of antennas packaged in a plastic case only support UHF). Also, check your coaxial cabling and make sure that it is rated RG-6. RG-6 cable is better and will improve reception and minimize dropouts.

Only the main channels (those ending with -1) primary broadcast in HD. The sub-channels (-2, -3, etc) are in standard definition due to bandwidth limitations. There are a few stations that may broadcast in HD on both -1 and -2, through the picture quality will suffer and have a blur effect during fast paced events. WKBN/27 in Youngstown did this for a while as they broadcast CBS on 27-1 and FOX on 27-2, both in HD. Unlike analog broadcasting, digital broadcasting always has a clear picture no matter how far away you are from the transmitters. You either get a picture or you don't.
post #3319 of 3985
It is depressing... and watch the Indians have a stellar season (one can hope!) this year, and I miss it. Even MLB.com does a black-out on local games. Still, I'm not going back to $90/month cable just to watch my team...
post #3320 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

Glad the Leaf Ultimate is working out for you. (It may support VHF, but the the majority of antennas packaged in a plastic case only support UHF). Also, check your coaxial cabling and make sure that it is rated RG-6. RG-6 cable is better and will improve reception and minimize dropouts.

Only the main channels (those ending with -1) primary broadcast in HD. The sub-channels (-2, -3, etc) are in standard definition due to bandwidth limitations. There are a few stations that may broadcast in HD on both -1 and -2, through the picture quality will suffer and have a blur effect during fast paced events. WKBN/27 in Youngstown did this for a while as they broadcast CBS on 27-1 and FOX on 27-2, both in HD. Unlike analog broadcasting, digital broadcasting always has a clear picture no matter how far away you are from the transmitters. You either get a picture or you don't.

Thanks snowdog, I'm glad too! I'll check the cable that came with it to make sure it's RG-6. My guess is that it is because I can't imagine getting a better image than what I'm getting now. The big test will come when the weather gets bad....
post #3321 of 3985
Last night, I noticed that 87.75 FM was experimenting with RDS. My car radio was displaying a song title and artist, but it didn’t match what was being played and didn’t change for the 15 minutes I listened. I can barely pick up this station at my house in the Copley area, but everywhere else is just fine. The nearby FM transmitters in Akron are just too powerful and blanket this station. Some of my home radios will not play WLFM because the frequency is actually 87.75, and 87.7 just isn’t good enough. The audio is distorted.
post #3322 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catedc View Post

It is depressing... and watch the Indians have a stellar season (one can hope!) this year, and I miss it. Even MLB.com does a black-out on local games. Still, I'm not going back to $90/month cable just to watch my team...

You can use a VPN/Proxy on a PC to make it look like you are somewhere else. Android has location spoofer apps, and on iOS you have to be jailbroken but can spoof location, I did that 2 seasons ago and it worked fine, didn't do it last season so they may have fixed it, but there are too many ways to trick location to really stop it.
post #3323 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

My uncle just bought a 2013 Escape. Sadly, the radio that came with it doesn't receive HD Radio. If he bought one of the higher end models, it probably would have came with a Sony radio, which would have provided him with HD Radio. He does have the Sirius/XM trial, but he is unsure if he will buy a subscription- he likes the "50's on 5" channel.

I, on the other hand would not think about signing up for Sirius/XM, not when the bit rate is 64 KBPS!!! eek.gif

My portable HD Radio strangely starts at 87.5. Was that done on purpose or was that an error?

Conclusion: Hopefully the FCC won't end analog radio broadcasting, there is no reason too as it won't free up any channels like it did to TV. The only benefit would be higher bit rates and (maybe) better error correction. However every radio (especially in cars) would need to be upgraded or replaced.
I don't believe Ford uses Sony radios on any of their vehicles. The radios with HD look just like mine that does not have HD. I found out the hard way that you have to play the "package" game to get HD while Sirius is on every model. I guess they get paid to push Sirius (6 months free on a new vehicle). Since HD Radio is free there is no incentive (plus iBiqiuty may charge too much for their technology). Even to day there are more radios on the market without HD Radio. I tried searching for an HD portable on Amazon. A bunch of radios came up but only Insignia had real HD product. Sangean radios also came up but HD was nowhere to be found in their descriptions. I tried to contact Amazon to point out that error on their searches but could not find a "contact us" link. mad.gif
post #3324 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I don't believe Ford uses Sony radios on any of their vehicles. The radios with HD look just like mine that does not have HD. I found out the hard way that you have to play the "package" game to get HD while Sirius is on every model. I guess they get paid to push Sirius (6 months free on a new vehicle). Since HD Radio is free there is no incentive (plus iBiqiuty may charge too much for their technology). Even to day there are more radios on the market without HD Radio. I tried searching for an HD portable on Amazon. A bunch of radios came up but only Insignia had real HD product. Sangean radios also came up but HD was nowhere to be found in their descriptions. I tried to contact Amazon to point out that error on their searches but could not find a "contact us" link. mad.gif
Newer Ford vehicles do come with Sony audio units on the higher end models. Just visit their site and select a vehicle such as the Escape or Fusion, then click on models. The Sony audio will be listed in the "equipment highlights" column.

Yes, I hate it when radios look similar but contain different features. My uncle's old 2004 Escape had a AM/FM 6-disc CD unit that supported RDS. The radio unit in my Ford looks identical to his, except that my unit supports MP3 playback and satellite radio, but no RDS. I assume that the song info would be displayed during satellite radio listening. (I don't have a subscription).
post #3325 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsthemultipath! View Post

No

Sirius/XM radios will be selling relativity well.

The rest will be getting their music from iPods and their news from the internet as they have been doing for a few years,

Yes, why get something nearly as good for free, when we can get a paid subscription to a service. rolleyes.gif

I find the qualty of internet sound to be substandard & compressed... let alone unreliable, but that's probably an issue on my end.
post #3326 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vchat20 View Post

Unfortunately unless WKYC has decided to add STO as a subchannel .

....& we all know that will never happen! wink.gif

When the Cable Monster bought up all the broadcasting rights, I didn't throw money at them, I just lost interest.
post #3327 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

My uncle just bought a 2013 Escape. Sadly, the radio that came with it doesn't receive HD Radio. If he bought one of the higher end models, it probably would have came with a Sony radio, which would have provided him with HD Radio. He does have the Sirius/XM trial, but he is unsure if he will buy a subscription- he likes the "50's on 5" channel.

I, on the other hand would not think about signing up for Sirius/XM, not when the bit rate is 64 KBPS!!! eek.gif

Me thinks The XM & Sirius have many lobbiest in Washington keeping HD @ bay.... probably has the auto industry in their pocket too.
post #3328 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

I just read that Local TV LLC is selling all their stations. The sale began on March 22, though it could take a year for the sale to finalize. (Link)

Since WJW is owned by Local TV, I'm worried that the sale could end the Antenna TV affiliation on 8.2!

I'm sure that may happen (What happened to RTN??), though the stations being sold are in the DC/Richmond area, how does this affect WJW? (unless this is a prequil of things to come?)

Thinking the OTA band is likely at it's peak now & will soon be diminished... Where are WVIZ's new repeaters out East on 38 & 44?
post #3329 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I don't believe Ford uses Sony radios on any of their vehicles. The radios with HD look just like mine that does not have HD. I found out the hard way that you have to play the "package" game to get HD while Sirius is on every model. I guess they get paid to push Sirius (6 months free on a new vehicle). Since HD Radio is free there is no incentive (plus iBiqiuty may charge too much for their technology). Even to day there are more radios on the market without HD Radio. I tried searching for an HD portable on Amazon. A bunch of radios came up but only Insignia had real HD product. Sangean radios also came up but HD was nowhere to be found in their descriptions. I tried to contact Amazon to point out that error on their searches but could not find a "contact us" link. mad.gif

You'll find that many manufacturers play the 'package' game and often times (I have done 'window shopping' online for Chevy, Ford, VW, etc.. and seen the same across the board) for one particular feature you have to drop one package and pick another, losing other features you may want. These cases you probably have to talk to a dealership in person if you have specific desires. I do agree though that it is highly likely Sirius has huge incentives in place for manufacturers.

The problem with HD though, and as an avid supporter I will still admit, is Ibiquity has (or had, haven't looked in a while at specifics) insane licensing fees not only for broadcasters but also receiver builders as well. It is one of the primary reasons you don't see it as widespread as it could be despite the fact it has been around for many years now. As I said: I am an avid supporter of the technology. It has potential if put into use right. But Ibiquity repeatedly shoots itself in the foot time and time again. I would like to see SOME form of digital terrestrial radio take solid foothold here in the states, but I feel Internet radio in the car is going to become widespread first.
post #3330 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

I'm sure that may happen (What happened to RTN??), though the stations being sold are in the DC/Richmond area, how does this affect WJW? (unless this is a prequil of things to come?)

Thinking the OTA band is likely at it's peak now & will soon be diminished... Where are WVIZ's new repeaters out East on 38 & 44?
RTN can be seen on fuzzy low power stations WAOH/29 and W35AX/35, though some of the network's schedule is preempted for local programming and infomercials. I'm not quite sure why RTN landed on these low power ANALOG stations, but my guess is that Media-com was probably afraid that their stations would be forgotten after the digital transition. I was hoping that someone like WKYC or WBNX would pick up RTN on one of their sub-channels. Did Media-com give up on their digital application? As mentioned before, it would be nice if the LP stations team up and use a single RF channel (preferably WRAP/32) and broadcast digitally using the station's sub-channels.

If WJW drops Antenna TV after the sale, my parents are sure going to miss it. I believe these retro networks have agreements with each other and somewhere it probably says that they have to exchange some programs for ones that are on another competitor, mainly because many markets only have one retro network. I've already seen this between Antenna TV and Me-TV and it looks like it's going happen again in the near future. I've seen promos on Me-TV saying that Adam-12 and Dragnet are coming soon. (Currently on Ant TV). For Antenna TV, I just read that Bewitched and I Dream of Jeanie will be premiering sometime in 2013. (Currently on Me-TV). When that happens, it is likely that those programs on the current network will simply get removed from their line up.
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