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Cleveland, OH - HDTV - Page 112

post #3331 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

Yes, why get something nearly as good for free, when we can get a paid subscription to a service. rolleyes.gif

I find the qualty of internet sound to be substandard & compressed... let alone unreliable, but that's probably an issue on my end.

Because for millions of listeners OTA radio is not "nearly as good" as other sources, particularly in regards to content. Hence why many choose a paid service over the free radio already in their cars and homes. HD radio suffers from the same issue, poor content and limited station choices (geography), so people are just not interested. Obviously many are willing to spend the $$$ for devices & subscriptions to avoid local radio, so if local HD radio were of any real benefit to the masses the HD capable radios would be selling very well. There is a reason most people are simply not interested in local radio, HD or not.

Sound Quality: Yes, if you listen only to rebroadcasts of AM/FM via the internet you will get very poor audio quality, commonly for three reasons.
1. Such AM/FM rebroadcasts are almost always low bitrate (low audio quality)
2. You are likely listening via your computer's built in speakers which are very small and typically very low quality
3. Just like #2, typical computer sound cards are also low quality with very low end codec processors and poor audio outs

But, when you switch to higher bitrate stations (there are MANY at 192k & 256k & 320k), and you use a dedicated streaming device of good quality (like the SqueezeBox devices mentioned earlier in this thread), the resulting audio quality is spectacular. The point of these devices is to avoid the pitfalls of computer audio.

Reliability: Yes, likely on your end. wink.gif I stream online stations 24/7 without a hiccup. It just works, assuming you have decent gear (players, router, network, internet).
post #3332 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

RTN can be seen on fuzzy low power stations WAOH/29 and W35AX/35, though some of the network's schedule is preempted for local programming and infomercials. I'm not quite sure why RTN landed on these low power ANALOG stations, but my guess is that Media-com was probably afraid that their stations would be forgotten after the digital transition. I was hoping that someone like WKYC or WBNX would pick up RTN on one of their sub-channels. Did Media-com give up on their digital application? As mentioned before, it would be nice if the LP stations team up and use a single RF channel (preferably WRAP/32) and broadcast digitally using the station's sub-channels.

If WJW drops Antenna TV after the sale, my parents are sure going to miss it. I believe these retro networks have agreements with each other and somewhere it probably says that they have to exchange some programs for ones that are on another competitor, mainly because many markets only have one retro network. I've already seen this between Antenna TV and Me-TV and it looks like it's going happen again in the near future. I've seen promos on Me-TV saying that Adam-12 and Dragnet are coming soon. (Currently on Ant TV). For Antenna TV, I just read that Bewitched and I Dream of Jeanie will be premiering sometime in 2013. (Currently on Me-TV). When that happens, it is likely that those programs on the current network will simply get removed from their line up.
I believe the same company owns more than one of these "retro" networks (Weigel Broadcasting owns MeTV & THIS).

As for RTN since the channels formerly known as "The Cat" now carry RTN I believe that blocks any other station from acquiring RTN as a digital subchannel in the Cleveland DMA. Anyway where would RTN go? Would WKYC squeeze it next to their weather channel or WEWS next to LWN? We are blessed with many subchannel choices here in the Cleveland market.
post #3333 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

Because for millions of listeners OTA radio is not "nearly as good" as other sources, particularly in regards to content. Hence why many choose a paid service over the free radio already in their cars and homes. HD radio suffers from the same issue, poor content and limited station choices (geography), so people are just not interested. Obviously many are willing to spend the $$$ for devices & subscriptions to avoid local radio, so if local HD radio were of any real benefit to the masses the HD capable radios would be selling very well. There is a reason most people are simply not interested in local radio, HD or not.
About 80% of Cleveland radio is nothing but Hot AC/Top 40/Alternate stations directed to younger listeners, and to me, they all sound alike. They don't seem care about variety or the older listeners. (At least WMJI-HD2 does). I'm in my mid 20's and don't listen to today's noisy music and untalented artists that others my age are listening to. I use to listen to WDOK when it was Soft Rock 102.1, but after the format change and the idiotic firings of Nancy Alden, Trapper Jack and Jim McIntyre, I quit listing to them. WDOK feels like it has to sound like everyone else, even like sister station Q104. Now for satellite radio, I would never think about getting it. Yes, it is commercial free and you can be almost anywhere in the US and receive the stations, but most likely I would be interested in one channel -not worth the monthly payment. My local Wendy's always has The Blend playing in their restaurant. The Blend's format is soft AC, and when I first heard it, the song selection was similar to the old Soft Rock 102.1. Then on my next visit to Wendy's, the station was still on The Blend, but they were playing more modern, hotter songs like what the current New 102 is playing. In my opinion, I don't see satellite radio having more variety than OTA radio, other then the decade specific channels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I believe the same company owns more than one of these "retro" networks (Weigel Broadcasting owns MeTV & THIS).

As for RTN since the channels formerly known as "The Cat" now carry RTN I believe that blocks any other station from acquiring RTN as a digital subchannel in the Cleveland DMA. Anyway where would RTN go? Would WKYC squeeze it next to their weather channel or WEWS next to LWN? We are blessed with many subchannel choices here in the Cleveland market.
Antenna TV is owned by Tribune and RTN (RTV, RetroTV whatever the heck it is called now) is owned by Luken Communications.

RTN replaced The Cat about two months before the June 2009 analog cutoff date. If 29/35 would have kept the America One network, maybe RTN would have ended up on a sub-channel like it should.
post #3334 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

About 80% of Cleveland radio is nothing but Hot AC/Top 40/Alternate stations directed to younger listeners, and to me, they all sound alike.

Totally agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

I don't see satellite radio having more variety than OTA radio, other then the decade specific channels.

Also agree, and why I'm not a Sat radio subscriber. My car alternative to AM/FM crapola is a USB drive under my dash with my music collection of 6,000+ songs. A big part of why HD radio has failed is because we have so many other alternatives now available to us.
post #3335 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

RTN can be seen on fuzzy low power stations WAOH/29 and W35AX/35, though some of the network's schedule is preempted for local programming and infomercials. I'm not quite sure why RTN landed on these low power ANALOG stations, but my guess is that Media-com was probably afraid that their stations would be forgotten after the digital transition. I was hoping that someone like WKYC or WBNX would pick up RTN on one of their sub-channels. Did Media-com give up on their digital application? As mentioned before, it would be nice if the LP stations team up and use a single RF channel (preferably WRAP/32) and broadcast digitally using the station's sub-channels..

Doesn't Trip work for those folks now?

What did happen to WRAP, they are still listed on TV Fool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post


If WJW drops Antenna TV after the sale, my parents are sure going to miss it. I believe these retro networks have agreements with each other and somewhere it probably says that they have to exchange some programs for ones that are on another competitor, mainly because many markets only have one retro network. I've already seen this between Antenna TV and Me-TV and it looks like it's going happen again in the near future. I've seen promos on Me-TV saying that Adam-12 and Dragnet are coming soon. (Currently on Ant TV). For Antenna TV, I just read that Bewitched and I Dream of Jeanie will be premiering sometime in 2013. (Currently on Me-TV). When that happens, it is likely that those programs on the current network will simply get removed from their line up.

Thought both Antenna & Me are Chicago based, some kind of an alliance there?
post #3336 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vchat20 View Post

You'll find that many manufacturers play the 'package' game and often times (I have done 'window shopping' online for Chevy, Ford, VW, etc.. and seen the same across the board) for one particular feature you have to drop one package and pick another, losing other features you may want. These cases you probably have to talk to a dealership in person if you have specific desires. I do agree though that it is highly likely Sirius has huge incentives in place for manufacturers.. I would like to see SOME form of digital terrestrial radio take solid foothold here in the states, but I feel Internet radio in the car is going to become widespread first.

Never owned a brand new vehicle, & likely the reason why buying gobs of unwanted acessories, where I liked power locks in a 4 door (provided they can be manually operated), I still detest power windows.
Those touch screens are scary & distracting... I'd never want one, no matter how interesting the look. I really miss my HUD display, that should be a standard on EVERY vehicle.

Of course the internet radio will have a subscription fee no doubt.

rolleyes.gif
post #3337 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

Doesn't Trip work for those folks now?
Trip for the FCC now
Quote:
Thought both Antenna & Me are Chicago based, some kind of an alliance there?
Me is owned by Weigel
AntennaTV is owned by Tribune
post #3338 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post

Trip for the FCC now

Sentence miss words but accurate. wink.gif

- Trip
post #3339 of 3985
Congratulations Trip on your new job!
post #3340 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

Those touch screens are scary & distracting... I'd never want one, no matter how interesting the look.
Same here. They tell you not to use your phone while driving and then the motor companies put in this touch screen crap with 20 different menu screens to distract you while driving. I wonder how long it will be before that technology gets banned from vehicles. I can imagine the news stories.
post #3341 of 3985
Even on my 05 Dodge Caravan, all the radio buttons are so tiny and indistinguishable from each other and very tiny writing, you HAVE to take your eyes off the road to change the station. Can imagine touch screen only worse yet. For safety's sake, bring back the knobs, dials, and push buttons we had in the 60's!
post #3342 of 3985
Never did understand the logic of two buttons sized to one finger.
JJK
post #3343 of 3985
News Corp threatens to take Fox off the air:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/apr/08/news-corp-threatens-fox-aereo

No more OTA Fox?
post #3344 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

News Corp threatens to take Fox off the air:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/apr/08/news-corp-threatens-fox-aereo

No more OTA Fox?
Heard that today on the news. The only thing I care about on Fox is The Simpsons.

Seriously, this internet streaming to mobile devices needs to stop. Who's going to pay $12 dollars a month to watch the same channels that you can get FREE over the air? Do you really need to have TV on a 7-10 inch screen everywhere you go? Wouldn't it be better to set your DVR or VHS and record the show if you're away from the TV?
post #3345 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post

Heard that today on the news. The only thing I care about on Fox is The Simpsons.

Seriously, this internet streaming to mobile devices needs to stop. Who's going to pay $12 dollars a month to watch the same channels that you can get FREE over the air? Do you really need to have TV on a 7-10 inch screen everywhere you go? Wouldn't it be better to set your DVR or VHS and record the show if you're away from the TV?

Because for millions of viewers OTA TV is not "nearly as good" as other sources, particularly in regards to content. biggrin.gif

I agree, I can't see just what this new generations enamourment with small handheld devices, & constantly being ''connected' is.... the other day a gal stepped out from behind a parked car, I almost hit her, & guess what she was doing?

This all goes along the lines with distracted driving with the posts above, I'm sure the dash TV is not far away, i personally would find a GPS distracting.
post #3346 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

Never did understand the logic of two buttons sized to one finger.
JJK

It took me several years to realize the buttons did that... see what happens when you don't read the owners manual? smile.gif

"Let's make the buttons even smaller!!" Lewis Black
post #3347 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

Because for millions of viewers OTA TV is not "nearly as good" as other sources, particularly in regards to content. biggrin.gif
I understand why they are doing this, portable handheld sets have problems receiving DTV signals. I've used one before and the picture breaks up like crazy with the included rod antenna. You have to position the antenna in the right spot, and when you change the channel, you have to reposition it again! Still, you have to be a idiot to to pay $12 for what is really an OTA signal sent right to your phone/tablet though the internet. (Not to mention the streams eating up your monthly bandwidth.)

I don't find anything interesting on cable/satellite. Half the stuff on cable is nothing but infomercials and shopping networks, the rest of it is filth. When there is something worth watching on cable, I don't have the opportunity to see it. When I was younger, I use to beg to my parents to get cable. (At that time it was probably about $25 a month for basic cable - 1997 with Adelphia in my area). The reason was that after the syndicated cartoons had their run on broadcast TV, they would move over to cable networks such as Nick and Disney Channel. But those cartoons are long gone and some of them have ended up on DVD's. So $62.00 a month (that's what my neighbor was paying for Crime Warner) for the majority of shows/networks that I would never watch? And the annoying logos and advertisements all over the screen? Pass.
post #3348 of 3985
WJW Having Problems?

Both 8.1 and 8.2 are a pixelated mess with no sound, with the signal meter bouncing all over the place. Have an outdoor antenna, and never had an issue with 8 (it's one of the strongest signals for me, believe it or not).

No problems with any other channel (including 19).

Is anyone else seeing this?

Location is western Medina County.

EDIT: 8.1/8.2 OK this morning
Edited by nsa1062 - 4/10/13 at 6:44am
post #3349 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

Because for millions of viewers OTA TV is not "nearly as good" as other sources, particularly in regards to content. biggrin.gif

Yup, but there will always be a market for those satisfied with less and who think American Idol is quality programing. Not I. wink.gif
I too have no interest in watching programing on a smart phone. But I am definitely part of the growing trend of those looking for both more and better content than the drivel offered on local TV.
I watched the Smithsonian ch while American Idol was on this week. What were you watching?

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/nielsen-reports-a-decline-in-television-viewing/
"...the fact remains that Americans are not turning off. They are shifting to new technologies and devices that make it easier for them to watch the content they want whenever and wherever is most convenient for them. As such, the definition of the traditional TV home will evolve."

http://stateofthemedia.org/2013/local-tv-audience-declines-as-revenue-bounces-back/

http://broadcastengineering.com/blog/tv-viewers-declining-could-help-mobile-tv-rise
"... The total number of U.S. TV households declined by 1.37 million compared to last year.... "
post #3350 of 3985
The only thing good on cable is the Discovery and History channels according to my family which is shifting from cable to OTA. PBS eventually shows all that stuff anyway.
JJK
post #3351 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

The only thing good on cable is the Discovery and History channels according to my family which is shifting from cable to OTA. PBS eventually shows all that stuff anyway.
JJK

Definitely agree with those two ch's, often very interesting programing. I'd add History Intl, Smithsonian, National Geographic 1 & 2, Science ch, BBC to that list.
NFL, NBA, MLB ch's are also very popular in my home, though I do not watch them myself.

Curious, are you going exclusively OTA?
post #3352 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

Yup, but there will always be a market for those satisfied with less and who think American Idol is quality programing. Not I. wink.gif
I too have no interest in watching programing on a smart phone. But I am definitely part of the growing trend of those looking for both more and better content than the drivel offered on local TV.
I watched the Smithsonian ch while American Idol was on this week. What were you watching?

I was actually repeating your quote from above on the Sat radio thread, wink.gif I actually not home during prime time, though I watch very little network, I just enjoy the re-runs of Leave it to Beaver, Kojak, ect, American Idol is just way out ther for me I really don't want to be watching reality TV wannabees & such... but this isn't limited to OTA it goes on to cable. One of the things I enjoyed when I drove more & did traveling by road was the local flares from radio & TV (including AM)... I guess I'm a dying breed that detests the canned pay services they offer frown.gif In 2003 I spent 8 weeks in Miami with 96 channels of cable, @ 3am I was hard pressed to find anything on except for infomertials & this included the pay stations.... actually a local station had movies on overnight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post


http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/nielsen-reports-a-decline-in-television-viewing/
"...the fact remains that Americans are not turning off. They are shifting to new technologies and devices that make it easier for them to watch the content they want whenever and wherever is most convenient for them. As such, the definition of the traditional TV home will evolve."

http://stateofthemedia.org/2013/local-tv-audience-declines-as-revenue-bounces-back/

http://broadcastengineering.com/blog/tv-viewers-declining-could-help-mobile-tv-rise
"... The total number of U.S. TV households declined by 1.37 million compared to last year.... "

I guess I'm in a way glad I'm going by the wayside, I'll resort to watching DVD's for visual entertainment... which most of my viewing consists of now anyway.
post #3353 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post

WJW Having Problems?

Both 8.1 and 8.2 are a pixelated mess with no sound, with the signal meter bouncing all over the place. Have an outdoor antenna, and never had an issue with 8 (it's one of the strongest signals for me, believe it or not).

No problems with any other channel (including 19).

Is anyone else seeing this?

Location is western Medina County.

EDIT: 8.1/8.2 OK this morning

Tropo wasnt up, I lost 19 last night on my outdoor antenna but retained it on my attic antenna (??) One thing i don't like on my Westinghouse Tuner is when a station isn't on it gives a zero signal... I can't see if there is even a weak signal there.

This afternoon everything back to normal too.
post #3354 of 3985
Fox needs to cancel American Idol! It's the same routine every year. Not interesting anymore since Simon left. I quit watching when Ellen DeGeneres replaced Paula Abdul. I watched 5 minutes of one episode this season and the judges all stink. How the heck did Nicki Minaj become a judge? eek.gif
post #3355 of 3985
Toby 10:
I was always on OTA but my uncle is on cable in Twinsburg. He is pretty fed up with what they provide except for those channels. I watch ME a lot and 8.2 and Josey Whales on 23.1 for about 100 times. PBS 25.3 Case Western Reserve Origins lectures by the college professors is fascinating. (9:00PM on Thursdays) It is also fascinating how Quantum Mechanics entanglement theory and Religion are starting to coincide.
JJK
post #3356 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

News Corp threatens to take Fox off the air:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/apr/08/news-corp-threatens-fox-aereo

No more OTA Fox?

It baffles me how streaming local channels over the internet would catch on in favor of OTA. I was playing around with my Roku box a few weeks ago to see if there were any apps I could add that would give me this live TV option, and I came across a couple apps that wanted to charge me around $10/month to receive the local channels I already get for FREE OTA. The main reason I wanted to research this was because I wanted to try to see if I could use a different zip code to watch out of market locals, but when I saw a monthly fee, I just gave up.
post #3357 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

It baffles me how streaming local channels over the internet would catch on in favor of OTA. I was playing around with my Roku box a few weeks ago to see if there were any apps I could add that would give me this live TV option, and I came across a couple apps that wanted to charge me around $10/month to receive the local channels I already get for FREE OTA. The main reason I wanted to research this was because I wanted to try to see if I could use a different zip code to watch out of market locals, but when I saw a monthly fee, I just gave up.

That's because your OTA networks demand a re-transmission fee to stream them. Not blaming them for doing so, just explaining why the few services that do carry them must charge something.

There are advantages for such TV viewing of local ch's/networks via 3g or internet. Whether these advantages are worth the $10 to $12 per month is up to the individual consumer. I'm with you and not interested. But I do see the attraction for others who would very much like some of the new tech ways of viewing local content and networks.

- can't get reliable OTA signal?
- prefer (or can't) put up a decent antenea?
- ability to view such programming anywhere? 3G or internet?
- turning such local programming into a VOD service in the cloud?

BTW: Both CBS and FOX in NYC have both lost the first two rounds of court cases regarding the (previously mentioned) Aereo service they are so upset about that they are threatening to end OTA all together in NYC. Bluffing or not, it's a real eye opener for future OTA battles to come.
post #3358 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

I was actually repeating your quote from above on the Sat radio thread, wink.gif .....

Yes, I'm aware. wink.gif

At 3 am you are going to get a lot of junk (like infomercials) on all forms of live TV (OTA, cable, sat). Nothing unique to cable/sat.
I'm not viewing TV at 3 am myself, so let them sell that air time to whatever new miracle product promoter they want, I say.
post #3359 of 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

That's because your OTA networks demand a re-transmission fee to stream them. Not blaming them for doing so, just explaining why the few services that do carry them must charge something.

There are advantages for such TV viewing of local ch's/networks via 3g or internet. Whether these advantages are worth the $10 to $12 per month is up to the individual consumer. I'm with you and not interested. But I do see the attraction for others who would very much like some of the new tech ways of viewing local content and networks.

- can't get reliable OTA signal?
- prefer (or can't) put up a decent antenea?
- ability to view such programming anywhere? 3G or internet?
- turning such local programming into a VOD service in the cloud?

BTW: Both CBS and FOX in NYC have both lost the first two rounds of court cases regarding the (previously mentioned) Aereo service they are so upset about that they are threatening to end OTA all together in NYC. Bluffing or not, it's a real eye opener for future OTA battles to come.

I'm surprised at the court's ruling. If the satellite and cable providers have to pay to redistribute the local channels, then how is it that the Aereo service can get arond that?
post #3360 of 3985
Because "technically" Aereo is in fact using antennas to get the free OTA signal in the first place, therefore essentially circumventing (or complying with, in a very roundabout way) the laws for OTA distribution and reception. This Forbes article seems to sum it up best:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2013/04/10/by-putting-over-the-air-online-legally-aereo-clears-the-way-for-all-tv-everywhere/?partner=yahootix

Whether this concept will survive further lawsuits and appeals is anyones guess. It's just one of many factors which will eventually make OTA TV broadcasts a thing of the past. The only question is when that day will come. Ten years? Twenty years? Fifty years? No idea.
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