crestron programming/pricing?

well im one of those who has purchased crestron and actually continue to purchase crestron from fleabay.i used to work for a local company installing intrusion/fire alarms,cctv,home theater,access control and structured wiring.

my home of course is wired more than the wife likes.its a 2000sf single floor and i have approximately 4000' cat5e,1000' cat6,2000' rg6qs,1000' 14/4,500' 12/2,500' 22/3(IR),750' 22/4 SHLD,500' 22/2(alarm),300' 22/4 alarm,18/2 plenum SLD(fire),16/4 plenum SLD(fire),1000' siamese(cctv) and various other.

i spent quite a deal on the infrastructure and security when we first moved in as security was a priority.

ive been using x10 since i was knee high to a grasshoper and recently started using insteon.now id like to use the crestron ive been buying.the local installer wont even touch it,even asked if i had a no warranty/no callback contract drawn up but still no go.

getting an installer up from miami is way too expensive.ive tried to track down the required software but of course its hard to come by.ive only managed to secure the database and SIMPL, i even went so low as getting my nephew to find it on one of his file sharing sites,still no go.

so,im down to trying to purchase the software(probably not going to happen this century) or finding someone to program it remotely and upload myself.

my question is how much hourly is the going rate?i have the GUI i want to use,i know what i want to control and how.it would probably be 2-3hrs,so what can i expect to pay for this?

im a red headed southern irishman so im uses to getting bashed it doesnt bother me that programmers will raise a fuss honestly.im not looking to become a cert. programmer,nor want to attempt install in customer homes.i just want a decent system for myself as im a low-voltage super-freak.

up until recently i had a 10x25' storage unit filled with anything you could image,old CCTV,satellite,alarm panels,fire panels computers,servers, alot of stuff.but being the economy is in the slumps my wife made me pick thru it and whatever didnt fit on 'my' side of the garage had to go.

just like the nike/muhammed ali poster "impossible is nothing".i understand that the programming is a pain,as ive been reading up on it .in 1987 my friends said i couldnt build a apple mac clone but i did.if it takes me 6mos to a year to program a crestron system it will still be worth it IMO.i look at ebay as sort of a "low end" crestron setup(as crestron only aims at high end i.e. wealthy clients)most other companies make products for high and low consumers,so ebay is just my take on the companies low end.

ive had people suggest everything from x10(still have alot of modules(not in use)) to a server running CQC and I/O boards but its not a crestron.

to answer your question,i have currently x2 cnmsx-pro/x1 cnmsx-av/x2 stx-1550c/x1 cresnet IIms/x1 cnrfgw/x1 st-cp/x1 cnxb4a/x1 tps-3000/x1 strfgwx

software: crestron toolbox 1.12.027.02,database 19.06.010,SIMPL debugger,SIMPL scripter,TIA menu builder,VPT address book,VPTcomserver,test console,test pullers and a corrupted winDEAL IRlearner.

i have amassed all this in under a month.as well as EVERY document off the crestron site and some off-site(i love retrevo.com)

i dont plan on using everything i have, and to do what i want there are still some pieces i need to acquire.

yeah i know getting the software is the hard part,and there is going to be those who blast me for even asking im sure.but it doesnt hurt to ask.

starting off i want it to be pretty simple i guess.mainly control my simple theater,eventually control all A?V in house which is still pretty basic setup.HVAC and lighting would be nice but not necessary at the moment.i can get by with my insteon for now as im just controlling a few lights with switches and PIR's and 3 remotes.

i have never programmed any crestron,if i had i would have the software needed for this project.i know that there have been people who say that they are willing to try and have some computer language skills.i only claim to have the patience and the desire to try.if it takes me 6mos to a year to program an entry level setup it will be worth it.im one of those that always wants great products in different fields.i have 2 hp rackmount servers which i rebuilt and im in the process of configuring,and i just started with servers 2 weeks ago.if you have patience and a solid determination anything is possible

as far as the 2-3hrs it was just a estimate talking with several installers and explaining what i had and wanted.basically i just want 1 touchpanel and control over my theater setup which as i said is basic compared to those here.for now i have a sony 61" rear-proj(ive had this for over 6yrs since i bought it new for 2600.00,i take care of my electronics,dusting weekly and air dusting monthly)a sony receiver 7.1ch,a HDTV DVR,a nFusion solaris FTA.thats abut it,i would also like to control my HTPC but not if its a hassle.

currently im controlling everything with harmony 880's and xantech IR.it works,but having a GUI touchpanel and the ability to integrate everything at some point on one system would just be tits

once again if ive offended anyone by just asking for software i meant no harm.but at the same time i dont apologize either.i could have paid a local integrator $2700 to do my infrastructure wiring,but i did it for a fraction of the cost the same if not better.plus i received the satisfaction of doing it myself.

anything is possible.if one has the determination and financial backing,breaking into fort knox and stealing the gold is possible,not easy,but possible.

*i had tried posting a reply earlier to one of the above posters but it didnt make it here for some reason.

your funny,and sarcastic i like that.3hrs, i might have something working,might not.but i dont plan to try and rush into it.if it takes me 6mos to a year to get everything working ill be happy.

ive been living with x10 and insteon so i can keep using those while i work on this.

now,if i do have something working in 3 hrs,what do i win?and if i dont what do i lose?

thanks for the advice.im getting blasted in PM's and email but unless its my wife or brother doing it it doesnt bother me a bit

with my latest purchase on ebay i think i have the ability to acquire another piece of software needed.ive spent the last 3 days 'learning' vtproe,so far i have 6 pages,not anything to brag about but being that i first used vtproe 3 days ago i think im 'not doing bad'.

as far as my system,its nothing major,yet.for crestron i have
x2 cnmsx-av(1 not verified working)
x1 cnmsx-pro(cant verify if working)
x1 st1550
x1 st1550c
x1 cnmk
x1 st-10
x1 st-cp
x1 st-vs
(plus a few other misc. pieces that i need to find in my low voltage mess)
i still need the db9-db9(does this have to be crestron made?)

equipment list,not sure exactly what i can control with what i have so far.im still 'mapping' things out.

media closet:
x2 scientific atlantic hd dvr
x2 nFusion solaris fta
x3 sony 200disc cd changers(hardly used-mainly mp3's played off HTPC)
x1 toshiba dvd player
x1 jvc 5.1ch(getting swapped to sony 7.1)used in liv rm
x1 sony 5.1ch(feeding 5.1ch into my ofc.spkrs B feeding selector)
hp proliant ml530 server(stores mp3's/dvd rips/scheduled backups)
hp proliant dl350(trying to get configured for ftp/web serving)
scientific atlanta 2100 cable modem
motorola sb5101 cable modem
3com cr870-95 VPN
linksys srw208g gigabit

living rm:
sony 61"(cctv/hd dvr/fta accessed via modulation)

my office:
sony 36"(cctv/hddvr/fta accessed via modulation)
HTPC(currently running A/V into closet to receiver.cant control in livrm)

master ste:
sony 36"(catv normal.hd dvr/fta/cctv accessed via modulation)
clg speakers from speakers 'b' thru 6ch soundcraft selector-no ir control

master ba:
clg speakers "same as above"

din rm:
clg speakers "same as above"

garage:
sony 27"(catv- hd dvr/fta/cctv accessed via modulation)
clg speakers "same as above"

porch:
sony 27" 'same as above'
speakers "same as above"

horseshoe pits:
rock speakers-2pr "same as above"

dont know if you still need more info

adding to above,i also have 2 reef tanks being monitored/controlled by a neptune systems ACpro.it uses x10 4&8 outlet power strips as well as x10 modules.i can access it via web or telnet.having the status available on a touch panel would be nice but being that the main tank is in liv rm its not a major deal,depending on price/programming dificulty.

im currently using insteon to control lighting inside and out.at some point i would like to get them configured on the crestron,but the price to swap over to crestron sw/dim isnt an option yet.

i would like to swap the speaker selector to something that i dont have to manually push buttons.im still researching this on the web.

my cctv cameras arent individually IP but the dvr has IP.viewing on a panel isnt necessary as i can switch inputs on TV

the HTPC is in my office as i also use it as my PC.its a intel P4 3.0ghx/4g ram/120g os drive/320g whatever drive.it currently has XPpro/MCE and im evaluating sageTV/beyondTV trying to decide which one to go with.

ive heard mention here and there that crestron can do security which might be an option in the future.currently im using a DSCpc5020/x3 pc5108/pc5132/4 lcd kpds.it currently has 58 zones so switching to crestron might be expensive.

thanks guys.i know lots of installers integrators try and steer DIYer's away from this but im on a mission.im not expecting to have some 'mtv cribs' type of setup but over time and with great help i think i can have a system to be proud of.

security wise,im a DSC man hands down for several years.i can almost program them in my head.i dont think that they can tie into and integrated controller but the DSC MAXXYS might as it is higher end.i have the model just below that a 5020,it can do 32 address x10 with the optional ESCORT module but thats about it.

Well I have had reservations on posting this but with the large following and PM's here we go.

First to all those who said I was wasting my time,wouldnt get anything working and it is too hard of a system to DIY,now is the time where I say... bow down!bow down you self righteous,thinking your high and mighty ghost of a shell, (insert remark here).

Im not saying that I could go out and do what you certified programmers can do by any means,Im just sad that you think you have the right to blast those that want to try a Crestron DIY project because they cant justify spending $8k on a system.

In two months I went from having nothing but a desire to have a Crestron setup to having one SELF PROGRAMMED and FUNCTIONAL.I did have assistance from a generous person who was in my shoes 3 years ago.I admit the logic is tricky at times.The problem I was having was I was looking to deep into the logic,making it harder to understand.After some advice and taking a step back and looking at it in simpler aspect it started to become a lot easier.

once again Ill state that Im not some expert yet,but going from zero to functional in 2 months is a great start,it is possible.One thing that didnt help was from the certified programmers hyping the programming up to be so hard that there was why I was looking into it too deeply.Its not easy at all,but once you commit yourself(and have someone to answer questions) you can do it.

here is where Ill get some more bashing aimed at me(as if Im not already immune by now).my system is pretty basic but I will be upgrading soon.Another thing I cant stress enough is the initial purchases of equipment.Dont rush out like I did and end up with equipment that isnt compatible or is outdated fro what you want to accomplish.Take you time,look at the products,have a game plan for A)what you want to accomplish control wise at the start and B)what you might want in the future.

my first mistake in purchasing was with a st1550 and a cnmsx-av.I received the items and downloaded the PDF's from crestron to find out I couldnt use them without a gateway for the panel to communicate with the processor.Then realized that the st1550 is only 1way communication which wasnt going to work for what i needed(but i did find a use for it as Ill explain later).

so,after purchasing a second gateway(first one was 418mhz and st1550 was 433mhz) i had the basic components to start my project.

Software,this is the biggest most soul crushing part od the whole project,getting copies of it.After getting bashed and receiving several non-inspiring emails about even asking for the software on forums,I even tried file sharing sites with no luck.finally one night I was determined(and zeeked out of my mind on mountain dew,DO THE DEW!) I did a google search and went thru page after page of links and found a site that actually has it available for download.Now it wasnt easy and I dont know what kind of site it is but there it was,basically every crestron software available for immediate download.

Now I had to do several searches on the site itself in different fashion to get everything.searching crestron deal ended up with different results than searching crestron DEAL.Some of the sub-sites it sends you too,contain German and Duetch language,but the software is English versions and labeled as such.I now have crestron toolbox,database,DEAL,SIMPL,SIMPL+,engraver,systembuilder and some assorted others.

Now to my next mistake,obtaining the correct programming cables.I ordered 2 cables off ebay and the one supposed to be for the touchpanel was actually for a series I didnt have.I ended up making one from a 3.5mm interconnect and a phoenix adapter.The cable from the PC to the processor is just a DB9-DB9.

Ok,now it was time to do the GUI on the touchpanel.having a st1550 limits you to its appearance,no color or oblong buttons.this is actually a godsend as its easy to start learning in the most basic way,limiting you to not trying Picasso like GUI.The pages gave me a problem as I wasnt joining them I was trying to do page flips and doing it wrong anyway.after several attemts and about 5 hours I had 2 pages.Next mistake,not putting a 'home' or 'return' button on the second page allowing me to get back to the 'main' page.So finally I ended up with a 'main' page and a 2nd page for TV,now to use SIMPL to program the processor.

SIMPL is a pretty good name for this program(basically) as it allows drag and drop of devices,both crestron and user.Now to add logic,this is where I started looking to deep into things.I saw button press symbol in logic drop down and thought hey,I need to push a button to get things to work so I need one of these for every button.Big mistake(how many am I on so far),next mistake(this is getting repetitive) just dragging logic symbols over and not labeling the inputs and outputs.

Another word of advice,save each program you make,even if the end product doesnt work.I learned so much from going back and looking at my mistakes.

also,there is Help option in programs,use it.say you dont understand an 'interlock' logic symbol.Help will define it and give you an example diagram.Now not all of the help gives a diagram but usually the more intricate ones do.


Now to my system as of today.x1 MC2e with a CNMSX-PRO on a COM port(actually this is a stand alone processor but its being used for its 8 Ir ports and i/o ports),x1 st1550(remember earlier I told you I found a use for this.Its next to my horseshoe pits!dont need anything fancy there),x2 stx1700's,st-vs,st-io,x1 cnrfgwa,x1 cnfrgwx.

This setup controls 3-4 TV's,3 recievers,2 cd chngers,1 bluray,2 dvd players my caddx alarm and my garage door(I hate having to get up and check to see if its shut)

Now this wouldnt be possible without the superb help of someone that was in my shoes years ago and getting me pointed in the right direction,I owe him a lot of gratitude.I hope to someday be more knowledgeable and can do the same for someone like me.

I am seriously entertaining the idea of getting an extra sever of mine up and running for a crestron DIY site,where ANY! and ALL! are welcome.If anyone is interested in this please contact me.

Please help keep the dream alive of DIYer's wanting to have Crestron systems.


DISCLAIMER's

****I will try to help anyone who asks,I will however not post nor send software to you for legal reasons,if theres a lawyer in the house give me a PM,otherwise I have no problems posting or sending examples of MY programming and such.****

****please,please if you do get equipment off ebay,realize that it is not covered by Crestron warranty and do not contact them for any reason,this is a part of why it is so hard for DIYer's to accomplish this.Crestron should not be contacted for ANY reason,not onluy are you wasting your time,but you are also wasting theirs****

****if you are a certified dealer or programmer and are offended by this,please realize that I dont care and continue to bash me and send hateful PM's as much as you like****

QQQ
AVS Special Member

Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,615

cabledawg, I hope you have thick skin because you may be about to get hit with lots of posts criticizing you for daring to ask for the software. Personally I believe it should be available and am not threatened by the idea that a small percentage of people want to try to program it themselves. Most will fail and those who don't are not in need of my services anyhow. But unfortunately I am not allowed to give it out. Good luck.


this statement is exactly what Im talking about as quoted from above

"I believe it should be available and am not threatened by the idea that a small percentage of people want to try to program it themselves. Most will fail and those who don't are not in need of my services anyhow."

thank you QQQ,I agree that there are very few and from that, it doesnt affect the delear/programmer in a catastrophic way.

Thank you very much fstsk8tr,its good to hear positive input,all the negative comments that Ive been receiving have been overwhelming.Instead of people wasting their time to post and PM negative remarks,giving positive input or none at all would be better.

And as you say,its hard to get started without any help.thats how it was for me when I was 9 years old and I wanted to learn how to install alarm systems,everyone laughed at me due to my age.I finally got some help from a tech who was swapping out a panel at my fathers business,not only did he give me the old equipment,he gave me some wire and a copy of the installation manual and programming worksheets.about 2 weeks later I had an alarm in my tree fort

thanks again for the kind comments

Its been pretty mixed as of lately,I was referring to all forum sites in general as some are members of more than one.The PM's here havent been as bad or numerous as other forums,I will admit that I hav been a time bo,b that finally timed up.Ive never understood why people will take their time to write something negative,or blast someone saying it cant be done.

Ive never used systembuilder,mainly because I couldnt find a copy anywhere to download that worked,I havent even seen screenshots of it.

I dont know the learning curve on systembuilder,SIMPL to me is still a process.I have my system working,altho its mainly touchpanel straight to IR,the COM programming for the hookup between the two processors was mainly done by a friend whos been helping me.He took the time to email me,instruct over the phone and even do a remote assistance so I could actually see what he was doing.Finding someone whos willing to help show you is really helpful getting started.Thats what I couldnt believe in all the forums,everybody wanted to help,but at a price and they wanted to do it themselves without allowing me to 'look over their shoulder' so I could learn.

I still stand by my statement that I have alot to learn about this great product,and in time I will get a better understanding.I just want to show people that it is possible to DIY crestron and that they shouldnt give up easily.

Oh and CJ dont be jealous,you couldnt even believe how many times at sat and stared at the processor wanting to hit it with a sledge-hammer,or how many times I held the touchpanel in my hands wanting to throw it.

My next step is going to be learning how to design a better GUI,the st1550 is of course just basic design and the stx1700's pretty much the same with just a splash of color.Ive done several searches for templates but all end up with needing to be purchased for $300 or more.Being that I have no intention to become a programmer,I dont want to spend the money on something just to have the rights to use it commercially.It would be just for my mediocre system.Id rather try the GUI myself and save the money for another touchpanel or device.

Thanks for the heads up CJ.this is what forums are for,helping others out.