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Gran Turismo 5 - Page 5

post #121 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandOG View Post

Here is another one:

http://www.wheelstandpro.us/servlet/StoreFront

I have the WSP and absolutely love it. The Fanatec is good as well so you really can't go wrong with either. I chose the WSP because it had a little more adjustability with the post. I think the Fanatec is meant to lock at 90 degrees but the WSP will lock at any angle.

the Fanatec does lock at 90 degree. it's small, but it is as stable as could be. it's a great stand for somebody that doesn't want to make something themselves and for somebody that doesn't want a full out cockpit in their room. it works perfect for me for couch racing, and i mean perfect.
post #122 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

You guys are missing the point of damage modeling. It's not to make the car look damaged It's to bring the racing closer to reality. If you want truly great times in GT, you take advantage of its weaknesses. Like riding the sides of cars to keep from going off the tracks. You can drive like you're in a derby with GT and not suffer the consequences.

And before you think I'm bashing GT, I'm not bashing GT specifically, but rather I bash all comments on all racers that these games are "so realistic" when most of these comments are made by kids who don't know what a real car feels like, much less what a car feels like at the limits.

I wish people would stop with the realism comments with Forza, GT, etc. Sign up for a BMW driving school or any other driving school that teaches you to take a car to the limit, and then come back and say these games are realistic. You won't be able to. All these games are approximations no matter how much the producers claim it's "millimeter accurate".

Sure you can make the claim that a driving school will make you better at the game and that's quite possible. But then again, you can take a kid who grew up on GT, put them in a real car and they suck a$$.

Look up GT Academy when you get the chance. Polyphony and Sony ran a Gran Turismo competition, in which the winners would be trained to race in real GT events with real GT cars. It was a sort of experiment to see if gamers good at racing games could be molded into race car drivers. Long story made short, the eventual winner of the competition ended up in dead last when he finally raced in a real GT event. While he was able to pick up the driving mechanics relatively easily, what the games didn't train him for was how physically demanding racing a real car was....the heat of the car and the g-forces thrown at your body were apparently too taxing for him.
post #123 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystik610 View Post

Look up GT Academy when you get the chance. Polyphony and Sony ran a Gran Turismo competition, in which the winners would be trained to race in real GT events with real GT cars. It was a sort of experiment to see if gamers good at racing games could be molded into race car drivers. Long story made short, the eventual winner of the competition ended up in dead last when he finally raced in a real GT event. While he was able to pick up the driving mechanics relatively easily, what the games didn't train him for was how physically demanding racing a real car was....the heat of the car and the g-forces thrown at your body were apparently too taxing for him.

Ahh..thanks for the recap. I was wondering what the results were. Pity he came in last. At least he got a chance of a lifetime (:
post #124 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomGreen321 View Post

Yup, not sure what he's is whining about, but F2 was pretty much loved by racing fans when it came out. EVERY game is made to look and play better then it actually does, it's called marketing. The makers of Gran Turismo are some of the worst offenders in this regard.

When GT5 comes out I think I'll avoid any gaming related discussion because the fanboyism is going to be out in full force, much more then it is now.

I've played through every installment of the Gran Turismo series since my imported Japanese copy of the first one, and while the core game itself is still pretty good, it hasn't changed very much since the first game. In fact, in many ways, the older installments are better than the newer ones. It seems that the makers of Gran Turismo focus too much on making the game 'bigger' and improving on the graphics, rather than making each installment substantially better. I mean c'mon...its the 5th installment and we still have to deal with a brain dead AI, a bumper car collision system, and an annoying time penalty system?

So what usually happens with each GT installment is that we're fed years of hype and are delivered essentially the same game, with minor tweaks, better graphics, and an updated roster of cars. In a lot of ways, GT5 prologue may actually work against Polyphony, as the demo has already been out for a year, we're already done gawking over the graphics, and have a feel for what the game is going to be like (again more of the same GT). Unless there are some substantial improvements to the full version of GT5, I can already tell that I'm going to be disappointed, and will grow bored of the game very quickly.

What intrigues me most about Forza is that the series really strives to improve the race-sim (for lack of a better term) genre everywhere Polyphony refuses to improve. Turn 10 strives to succeed everywhere Gran Turismo fails....and Turn 10 really manages to pull it off in a lot of ways. This is why many people who have actually spent a decent amount of time with both prefer Forza.

In the end the competition between the two franchises is a benefit to all of us, as it pushes both developers to deliver a better quality product instead of re-hashing more of the same (or so I hope, Polyphony!)
post #125 of 3784
Thread Starter 
OFFICIAL GT5 BROCHURE SAYS Q4 2009 RELEASE

Quote:


It's not written on stone, but an official brochure will do for now. Polyphony Digital has set the official release date for the long-overdue Gran Turismo 5, and you bet it's coming out on the last quarter of 2009.

Handed out at the GamesCom convention in Cologne last week, the German brochure (translated) had this to say about the super-racing game:
Quote:


Developer: Polyphony - Platform: PS3

Genre: Racing - Number of Players: T.B.A. Release: 4th Quarter of 2009 THE


ULTIMATE RACING GAME RETURNS


1000 cars to race on incredible detailed racetracks and unlock PlayStation Trophies ... The new NASCAR and WRC championships improve the Gran Turismo experience. Players are challenged to fight their way up the online leaderboards against other racedrivers from all over the world.

We'll be holding on to their word now, unless of course the brochure gets wet and melts away or something.

Link

post #126 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystik610 View Post

I've played through every installment of the Gran Turismo series since my imported Japanese copy of the first one, and while the core game itself is still pretty good, it hasn't changed very much since the first game. In fact, in many ways, the older installments are better than the newer ones. It seems that the makers of Gran Turismo focus too much on making the game 'bigger' and improving on the graphics, rather than making each installment substantially better. I mean c'mon...its the 5th installment and we still have to deal with a brain dead AI, a bumper car collision system, and an annoying time penalty system?

So what usually happens with each GT installment is that we're fed years of hype and are delivered essentially the same game, with minor tweaks, better graphics, and an updated roster of cars. In a lot of ways, GT5 prologue may actually work against Polyphony, as the demo has already been out for a year, we're already done gawking over the graphics, and have a feel for what the game is going to be like (again more of the same GT). Unless there are some substantial improvements to the full version of GT5, I can already tell that I'm going to be disappointed, and will grow bored of the game very quickly.

What intrigues me most about Forza is that the series really strives to improve the race-sim (for lack of a better term) genre everywhere Polyphony refuses to improve. Turn 10 strives to succeed everywhere Gran Turismo fails....and Turn 10 really manages to pull it off in a lot of ways. This is why many people who have actually spent a decent amount of time with both prefer Forza.

In the end the competition between the two franchises is a benefit to all of us, as it pushes both developers to deliver a better quality product instead of re-hashing more of the same (or so I hope, Polyphony!)

Its not easy improving on perfect.
post #127 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystik610 View Post

What intrigues me most about Forza is that the series really strives to improve the race-sim (for lack of a better term) genre everywhere Polyphony refuses to improve. Turn 10 strives to succeed everywhere Gran Turismo fails....and Turn 10 really manages to pull it off in a lot of ways. This is why many people who have actually spent a decent amount of time with both prefer Forza.

I've spent quite a bit of time with both, and for me, the only innovative part of Forza 2 was the robust modification tools. Otherwise, it really struck me as a "me too" racing title, but without the obsessive attention to detail and polish that PD has. What else struck you as so innovative about Forza 2?

But you're absolutely right about the GT series. Not much has changed in terms of core features and mechanics over the years. Just refinements, minor physics adjustments, new manufacturer licenses, and graphical overhauls. But damn if it ain't slick and sexy as hell.
post #128 of 3784
I'll believe it when I see it. Polyphony cried wolf one too many times with GT4 release date.
post #129 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I've spent quite a bit of time with both, and for me, the only innovative part of Forza 2 was the robust modification tools. Otherwise, it really struck me as a "me too" racing title, but without the obsessive attention to detail and polish that PD has. What else struck you as so innovative about Forza 2?

Personally, I thought the online integration was the 'innovative' (and best) part of Forza 2. There are leaderboards for just about everything you can think of that are easily accessible (I really hope GT5 has a better leaderboard system than Prologue), and the online play itself is very smooth, flexible, and most importantly, balanced.

The offline portion is pretty dull (especially since they took out the autocross), but there was just something gratifying about tweaking setups to gain that extra tenth on your friends' times or to handle better during online races/leagues, which was a first for me for racing sims on a console (the original Forza was great too but I don't remember it pulling me in like Forza 2 did).
post #130 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I've spent quite a bit of time with both, and for me, the only innovative part of Forza 2 was the robust modification tools. Otherwise, it really struck me as a "me too" racing title, but without the obsessive attention to detail and polish that PD has. What else struck you as so innovative about Forza 2?

Damage Penalty System: After years of playing Gran Turismo and having to deal with bumper car collision system, the damage system in Forza was definitely a 'refreshing' aspect of the game, particularly when playing online. It isn't a system that encourages damaging your car, rather its a system that punishes making driving mistakes or driving too aggressively. No matter how good of a racer you are, if there isn't that constant margin of error looming over you and you're driving each lap perfectly, the game is flat out too easy. Being able to damage individual parts of the car in a way can affect the performance of your car and your ability to win the race, encourages you to drive better (not worse), and emulates the sense of risk and reward involved with racing.

Artificial Intelligence: The AI system in Forza is better than Gran Turismo's aritifial un-intelligence system by leaps and bounds. Polyphony has boasted about improving the AI system with each installment, but it doesn't seem like the AI reacts to driving conditions other than to avoid hitting you. In Forza the AI will block your line aggressively to keep you from passing, and will pressure you from behind without managing to hit you if they're behind you. The AI in Forza also adapts to how you're driving as well....drive amiacably and avoid collisions and the AI will do the same. If you start bumping them and driving aggressively, they'll return the favor. The AI controlled opponents in Gran Turismo Prologue still feel like mere obstacles to be passed as you approach the finish...in Forza you can sense that you're actually competing with the computer controlled cars.

Performance Index: Winning races in Gran Turismo often is often more a matter of having the fastest car, than being able to out-drive your opponents. The performance index system gives you performance limitations to deal with when entering a race, which makes winning the races more a matter of your driving ability and how well you've tuned your car. Given the limitations you're dealt, there's a constant compromise between the vehicles power and speed vs it's cornering ability...this accentuates the impact properly tuning your car for each given track and race. This system keeps the competition tight in the single player races, but also works very well in appropriately match-making games when playing online.
post #131 of 3784
It's been so long since I played Forza online that I forgot about some of that stuff. Totally right. But all you'd have to say is that Forza has online. The GT series hasn't really gone online yet (Prologue is pretty rudimentary online).

My biggest problem with Forza is just the feeling of driving. Regardless of the settings or car, it always feels more arcadey to me. Very forgiving and overly accessible. I've never worried much about AI in sim racing games because I've always focused on course times rather than beating other drivers. That may be another reason why I prefer the GT series. I'm a time trial junky (hence my obsessions with Mirror's Edge and Trials HD). As far as Permance Index goes, though, GT5P introduced a very similar and well-balanced performance rating system for its online racing. It's one of the few things GT5P's online mode does do well.

I'll definitely be picking up Forza 3 (and probably every other major console racer due out in the next few months). And since they've already made the jump to online racing, I wouldn't be surprised if it's got better online features than GT5 (whenever it finally arrives). But so long as GT has time trials leaderboards, I'll be happy.
post #132 of 3784
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystik610 View Post

Damage Penalty System: After years of playing Gran Turismo and having to deal with bumper car collision system, the damage system in Forza was definitely a 'refreshing' aspect of the game, particularly when playing online. It isn't a system that encourages damaging your car, rather its a system that punishes making driving mistakes or driving too aggressively. No matter how good of a racer you are, if there isn't that constant margin of error looming over you and you're driving each lap perfectly, the game is flat out too easy. Being able to damage individual parts of the car in a way can affect the performance of your car and your ability to win the race, encourages you to drive better (not worse), and emulates the sense of risk and reward involved with racing.

Bumper car collision system.

There's no such thing as a perfect sim since no one would play it. However, if you like the franchise for another system, go right ahead and enjoy it.
post #133 of 3784
Once again, neither damage model looks particularly good. The guy in the video above hit a wall at 70 mph and barely dented the bumper! Come on...
post #134 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Bumper car collision system.

There's no such thing as a perfect sim since no one would play it. However, if you like the franchise for another system, go right ahead and enjoy it.

So you chose a video that has the option to turn off damage which by the way the developers have yet to show us a full preview of damage for the new version vs a game just now starting to add the feature in.
post #135 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Avarice_ View Post

Once again, neither damage model looks particularly good. The guy in the video above hit a wall at 70 mph and barely dented the bumper! Come on...

Because the damage was turned off . Forza 3 gives you the option to have no damage, cosmetic damage that doesn't affect perfomance and full simulated damage. Same thing with the you tube video you posted a couple of days ago it seems you are unaware that Forza 2 offers the same settings when it comes to damage. You posted a video that showed cosmetic damage that didn't affect performance. If that car in the video had full damage on when hitting the wall at 70mph he would have been out of the race.
post #136 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Bumper car collision system.

Ok. I take back some of the things I just said above. Watching that video, two things become immediately apparent:

1) The pre-race menus and camera work is almost identical to GT5P. Seriously. I wish I had a link to show a side-by-side comparison. Even the pre-race Forza logo loadscreen is ripped off from GT5P.

2) The driving looks identical to Forza 2. From that, I'd say that the Forza devs have been focusing on only two things during development: graphics and their video editor. Everything else is either the same as in Forza 2 or GT5P.

It remains to be seen what they do to their online features. Anyone have a link to video or interviews detailing any new online features?
post #137 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Because the damage was turned off . Forza 3 gives you the option to have no damage, cosmetic damage that doesn't affect perfomance and full simulated damage. Same thing with the you tube video you posted a couple of days ago it seems you are unaware that Forza 2 offers the same settings when it comes to damage. You posted a video that showed cosmetic damage that didn't affect performance. If that car in the video had full damage on when hitting the wall at 70mph he would have been out of the race.

Damage was clearly "on" in that video, as the guy running the demonstration asked the player to rotate the camera around with the right analog stick to show the audience said damage.
post #138 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Avarice_ View Post

Damage was clearly "on" in that video, as the guy running the demonstration asked the player to rotate the camera around with the right analog stick to show the audience said damage.

Again if it was on it was just cosmetic which is an option. Forza 2 offers the option and so will Forza 3.
post #139 of 3784
You hope so!
post #140 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Bumper car collision system.

There's no such thing as a perfect sim since no one would play it. However, if you like the franchise for another system, go right ahead and enjoy it.

The collision settings were set to cosmetic and the difficulty was set to easy in that video. That dumbs the game down quite a bit.

I'll actually be picking up both games on their respective release dates. Don't get me wrong, I've been a fan of the Gran Turismo series for a long time, but I'm not deluded enough to call the game 'perfect' and ignore the short-comings of the series.

No game will ever be perfect, but the problem with the GT series is the developers inability to substantially improve the game between installments. In fact, fans of GT (myself included) should be glad that Forza is in the market as its direct competition, as its forcing Polyphony to finally address the short-comings of the Gran Turismo series. Without Forza gunning at GT, I doubt that we would be seeing damage modelling, performance points, improved AI, and the drive-line assist in GT.
post #141 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystik610 View Post

the drive-line assist

Remember, though, that the GT series used the drive-line assist first (in training and license challenges), and I'm sure it existed in some other racing game/series prior to that. Forza was just the first to use it in regular races. Regardless, I never use it except in training runs.

But you're totally right about how this competition is driving these two development studios to do more and do it better. There aren't any other direct competitors between the two consoles. Means better games for everyone!
post #142 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Again if it was on it was just cosmetic which is an option. Forza 2 offers the option and so will Forza 3.

The actual video in the link even shows damage being set to cosmetic.
post #143 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by eatenbacktolife View Post

The actual video in the link even shows damage being set to cosmetic.

Would the car look any different if the damage was set to high? I would think that cosmetic damage would show all the damage... but not affect the driving.
post #144 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

Would the car look any different if the damage was set to high? I would think that cosmetic damage would show all the damage... but not affect the driving.

If it was set to full you would be able to bring up a view of your car parts showing you what internal parts got damage after impact. Smoke would come from the the hood and you won't be jumping back in with the pack anytime soon if it was set to full.
post #145 of 3784
I think his point was that driving head-long into a wall at 70 mph, the front end of the car should have been visually destroyed with the damage being set to only cosmetic.
post #146 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

Would the car look any different if the damage was set to high? I would think that cosmetic damage would show all the damage... but not affect the driving.

I dunno, I haven't played Forza 3.
post #147 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Avarice_ View Post

I think his point was that driving head-long into a wall at 70 mph, the front end of the car should have been visually destroyed with the damage being set to only cosmetic.

It should be noted that the video from Gamecon is also the E3 build and if you have a chance go to Neogaf and you can read up on some of the updates since the E3 build. What this means is that the damage you saw in that video has been updated. With Forza 2 the damage was cosmetic but not as visual with the same impact as when it was set to full sim.
post #148 of 3784
I'm not going to get into this argument but I would like to second something stated earlier. If you ever get the chance, take a driving class. I took the Acura high performance driving course at Mid-Ohio (present from the wife) and it was one of the best... days....ever... for this car guy. i can't wait to take the advanced course next year.

ok, carry on arguing...... lol
post #149 of 3784
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Avarice_ View Post

I think his point was that driving head-long into a wall at 70 mph, the front end of the car should have been visually destroyed with the damage being set to only cosmetic.

It looks like the front right takes the brunt of the hit, and we don't even see that section. We see about two seconds of the front left, and a front shot covered up by the lap times in horrible internet compression quality . If what we saw is indicative of the "visual" damage model, then they took a step back from forza 2, which I find hard to believe.
post #150 of 3784
the only thing i really hope they change in forza 3 are the soundeffects. the soundeffect sin forza 2 were horrible. an after seeing the gamespot demo i am not really sure it is so good either. that bumb audio sounded afwul.

anyway i will pickup forza 3, gt 5 anyway. so far GT5 looked miles a head in graphics. but graphics aint all. gameplay is were it is all at.

also i never understand the damage factor. i dont give a rats ass about it. all i want is as many cars as possible to drive with my steering wheel.

in real life when you have car damage your done. race over. so who cares about car damage?

online? can fix that easy. if you bumb into someone say with a maximum of 30 miles an hour. your simply out of the game. i always hate those people who just try to crash and burn into your race to take you over.

and the one who host th egame can set the amount of pressure someone can drive into you if he is out of the game. 10 miles and hour. 20 miles etc.
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