Gran Turismo 5 - Page 49

What did you expect him to say "Forza 3 is ok but wait for GT5, it's going to be the bomb"?

Now the following isn't directly solely at your blackzc

Let's be real here people. PD has been touting that the physics in GT5 "have been completely reworked". You don't "completely rework" something if it's already perfect unless you intend to F' it up. I enjoyed GT5P but after playing Forza3 you can tell it needed work. And I'm not putting it down. Look how many years it's been between FM3 and GT5P so of course FM3 will have the edge. Just as I expect GT5 to blow out any console racer when it drops. I'm hoping against all hope that the game will be a masterpiece of racing for the foreseeable future. But, as is the natural course of things, something will come and top it and if it does it should be given it's due.

Flag waving is the reason why countries have wars now (well mostly in the past) and most of the time it's usually wars based on BS. So lets be above that and talk about racing games and what they have to give for our enjoyment and particularly what GT5 will give in comparison of the options we have now. Not run around needlessly bashing other games. FM3 gives PLENTY of enjoyment right now IF one can take the PD glasses off for a minute but I see GT5 giving MUCH more enjoyment when it comes out. And those who aren't running around with T10 glasses on will be able to partake in that enjoyment if it holds up. So many features they've built in (still pissed about the cockpit thing, dumb) the customization looks out of this world.

My group and I are REALLY going to enjoy this. Infact FM3 will probably wind up being put aside as we're just getting into F1 2010. That game has fun potential written all over it for our multiplayer sessions. So with that currently on the slate and GT5 just around the corner we'll be having continuous fun year round, year after year the way I see it. And we'll be having it with WHATEVER quality game that gets released no matter who releases it and we'll weigh it's pro's and con's with whatever we're running at the minute.


Now if you read all of what I wrote and only came away with ....


Then really all I can do is throw up my hands and smh.

PS: Did I mention the rain effects in GT5? Oh man I don't know why but I can't WAIT to experience that in cockpit view. I wonder if they nailed the open cockpit rain like F1 2010 did though. You guys really gotta experience that. Man if they got that in there like that boy oh boy it's gonna be a hot time at the track tonight (well tonight being November)

Your analogy is very broken. As far as the game is concerned again if the purpose of this thread is to live in lollipop land and everyone dances around with bunnies and praise GT5 for everything good and make a million excuses for what they screw up then say so and I'll GLADLY not post in here again. If seeing what the game is and what it CAN be is NOT the object of this post then say so and I'll GLADLY not post in here again. But if this is a thread for serious GT5 discussion, it's good points, bad points and how it can get better, how it relates to everything else out there then let's do that.

I just think of so many games I've seen get better because the devs welcome the feedback even if they are taking it on the chin and then I think of other franchises where the blind sheep customers have given the devs NO motivation to improve the game and how those games suck.

See what I mean. Built-in excuse mechanism. Don't give me that junk about taking months to finalize each fully designed car, it's messed up point blank. Just like I made noise that there is no night racing in FM3, sure they have their reason but I don't want to hear that junk, if another game has it then why don't you. GT5 has had MORE than enough time to get it done, it needed to be done. Everybody takes shorts these days and eat it up like it's Fillet Mignon. I'm letting it be known that there are still some of us out here that want it done and done right , the first time. But guess what man, I'm out. You want to keep this fluffy marshmallow then fine. Have at it. I'm just not that kinda guy.

EDIT: Those of you who are interested in a group of sim drivers who get together a couple times a week to enjoy some clean racing let me know through a pm. We have a small group but we do have alot of fun. Open to all but to be honest if you're not open-minded you probably wont enjoy yourself since we race 360 and PS3 and some people do race PC. Right now F1 2010 and FM3 has our attention. We'll be running GT5 once it comes out and hope to have even more fun with the larger field and neat options that have been reported in the game for multiplayer.

I'd pick delay anytime if it's what is needed to do it right.

I don't see ANY problem with comparing what's most likely going to be the king of console racers (GT5) to the current king of console racers (FM3). GT5 is way newer and we all expect it to blow FM3 out of the water.

I think it's seriously detrimental to the discussion that some people (I'm looking at you, joeblow) keep labeling anyone who makes a comparison a 'fanboy', 'troll' or anything else that they aren't (most of the time anyway).

Also, GT5 is a game for serious race game fanatics. I think there will be more people in here that DO have a 360 with Forza 3 than you think. For the simple reason that for a long time it's been the best console racing simulator.

I would certainly have wished for the standard cars to be ditched, Then PD would have had more time to devote to fully developed cars. Of course that would have dropped their car count below the competition and taken an important bullet point away. So instead we have the vast majority of cars locked in 2006 when here in 2010 everyone of their competitors has cockpit views on their cars.

I load rFactor I have cockpits, I load iRacing, I have cockpits, I load Forza 3 I have cockpits, I load F1 2007 by Sony themselves and I have cockpits. ( I could continue with many others but why bother)

If one is going to say it's OK to not have cockpits on most cars in 2010 then they are speaking more as a Sony fan than a racing simulation fan. If you are
Looking for a simulation there is only one view that is important and that is cockpit view.

My GT5 is paid for , my PS3 has been moved to my Obutto and connected to my Fanatec wheel and Buttkicker. There is no way I am going to be satisfied with anything less than FULLY modeled cars.

As you have pointed out multiple times something had to give. Well what gave was full cars for incomplete cars so a number could be reached. Now how many non hard core racing fans will ever touch more than 200 cars? Hell how many will touch more than 50? Probably not very many. The only people that would come close to driving most cars are serious fans, you know the exact same folks who want a cockpit view. The same folks who want a simulation... And driving from no other view is really simulating driving a car very well. If you ever have access to rFactor or Forza 3 try racing one of the Japanese super cars from the cockpit. You have a seriously restricted view and it adds to experience. Try out the various leMans cars, you will find the ones with open cockpits are FAR easier to drive than the closed ones. Once you take the real perspective away a car never drives as closely to what it should.

Not spending the time getting all those incomplete cars in the game would have added time they could have spent adding (of course a smaller number) of complete cars.

You're really persistent aren't you? Nobody is having a battle discussion. It's just YOU insisting that people are.

Not sure what all the back-and-forth is about.

First, only one console racer has designed their mechanics around the cockpit view (NFS Shift). For all the others, it just doesn't feel right. It's more of a bullet-point and visual treat than it is a real gameplay feature.

Second, GT5 has been delayed and delayed and delayed in order to perfect things like car models. Some of you are expecting perfection not parity. Unless you want to see GT5 in 2015, this is what we get. And IMO it's already got far more visual and play content than anyone conceivably has time to enjoy.

EDIT: Also, AFAIK "standard" cars will also have interiors. They just won't be as detailed as the "premium" ones. Again, not sure what the complaining is all about.

It's because of this thread that I've started playing racing games with cockpit view. I learned to appreciate the added realism of it. It makes things significantly harder because you don't see everything as well as with the hood/roof cam view. Just like when sitting in a REAL car. And I'm pretty sure in-cockpit view is going to be even more spectacular with GT5's 3D mode enabled. I for one can't wait to see that.

I also agree with the 'something has to give' sentiment. But at the same time I'm perfectly happy with 200 fully modeled cars. That sure is enough to keep me busy for quite a while.

I guess what PD COULD have done is create some sort of 'generic' interior to use when racing non-premium cars with cockpit view. But I suppose PD went with a 'do it right or don't do it at all' philosophy on that one which is understandable as well.

But there's not much realistic about it.

First of all, the physics and response times aren't optimized for cockpits in most racers so they usually feel stiff/off. Judging by the recent tech coming out of PD, I don't think GT5 will fix that.

Second, the FOV is severely limited unless you've got a multi-screen setup. Feels much more limiting, and not at all in a realistic way. Even with 3D tech, you're missing vital peripheral cues. PD designs their games with FF wheels and hood/bumber cams as the default, and it shows in the final product.

That's something I noticed about the WRC 2010 demo -- it has two cockpit views. One shows the hands/wheel, while the other is a little bit further forward in the cockpit with no hands/wheel. The former was a little prettier, but I felt it was distracting if the angle of the wheel didn't match up with the one in my hands. I found I preferred the second cockpit view.

I don't want to add fuel to the fire but I think Sony and PD have mismanaged the franchise with sidetracked projects mostly not related to GT5's development that you can see why we have such a huge disparity in quality of cars. Then throw in the crazy detail they have in those premiums and the time it takes to create them and we see why 200 have all the glory where 800 are just polished ports. I don't like it but I'm not making excuses, just pointing out the obvious. I'm not a cockpit guy and no graphics whore by any means but ALL the cars should still drive the same way, have the same modding/tuning options, be able to race with on another as it's just the visual fluff that's different and all run under the same physics engine.

Can't wait, and can't believe we're less than a month from the game actually being in my hands. Someone pinch me!!

I don't see how this is true. It's not like programmers are modelling car interiors. Artists aren't rewriting physics code. They have a finite number of artists on staff and they have spent their time making the cars and tracks. At this stage they have 200 ready to go. They could have doubled the number of artists on staff or whatever or they could have delayed it another 2 years but both of those come with obvious problems. If it would've come out earlier, it probably would have had less cars.

Both GT1 and GT3 had less than 200 cars. I suppose Polyphony could have launched without the "standard" cars, but would people have complained there's only 200 cars.

BTW have any of you guys actually seen how the "standard" cars look? They actually look really good from what I have seen - they would not look out of place in practically any other racing game this gen, including Forza.

But, but....there aren't interiors in the standard cars!! PD has screwed up GT5!

The amount of bitching over what's missing from GT5 is infuriating. PD gives us that entire list of features, which obviously took a lot of time to complete, and there's still bitching.

Does anyone really think PD didn't want to create interiors for all cars? They couldn't, even with the already far too long development time.

GT criticism is a touchy subject for Sony fans. Always has been, and continues to be. Note first and foremost that one of the main reasons why I got a PS1 and PS2 was for GT franchise. Same holds true for PS3, where GT5 was the 1 game I got it specifically for (and BD being the other reason). I've owned every GT full release to date including the mediocre GT PSP (that lack of career completely killed it for me). I've got GT5 CE on preorder already btw.

I know GT5 is going to be epic for all that's been included in a GT title. Had other titles not been around though, especially Forza, we probably wouldn't see as many additions like damage and rollovers and a better online infrastructure. That's where competition is good for the consumer. Still, a LOT of time has been spent elsewhere that could have been devoted to things like the remaining car models. I think the biggest flaw right now is that very car disparity. Forget for a second all the extra additions... the fact that 1/5 of the cars have all the polish, cockpit views, and features like different damage models while 4/5 don't and are just polished ports of older games (although really pretty ones) is blasphemy for me. Too many unknowns right now but fact is fact, there are cases where a crap-econo-box gets the glory route like a Suzuki Cappuccino while car legends like the Lambo Countach are standard . See, I'm a fan of the series, not a fanboy, and I saw throughout the development cycle all the sidetracked projects that has allowed this to happen. PD doesn't outsource any work, yet had numerous projects going on that have sidetracked the development. From 4K tech demos to numerous car related designs and demos (Citroen GT, Nissan GT-R hub, Nismo 350z aero kit, etc etc). And still a lot of the things that has been talked about never came (GTHD was supposed to be a GT4 HD release that never came, GT5P patch for damage and better online never came, etc). Then you hear how karting was added but was a GT6 feature (so then why work on karting at all for GT6 when GT5 isn't out yet and this disparity is there!?!). It's things like this that show mismanagement to a degree. And I'd throw in Sony to blame as well with their 4K tech demo, 3D inclusion, and the head tracking which was originally tooted as a MOVE feature but all it uses is the PSeye.

Still can't wait though. Got my preorder in and I'm one of those who checks gtplanet almost daily. I just don't go on defending everything Sony/PD does. Fact of the matter is the core GT fans thought GT PSP was rather blah and are still waiting for GT5 to hit even with such a huge car disparity that exists. It'll be an epic game but still one that's taken 5 years of development with all that's gone on. In the end, it is what it is and we'll see what we get come November

I assume Polyphony Digital was paid for this work with these companies, probably quite a bit of money. That money was almost certainly rolled right back into GT development.

As for 4K resolution, we are talking about a resolution here. I don't think the programmers working on a 4K engine were modeling cars otherwise.

As for GT4 HD, what happened was that Sony originally proposed a system where you would download "GT HD" for free and all the cars would be paid DLC. Fans went ape **** and they canceled it. This actually wasn't a side project as much as it was supposed to be a new delivery mechanism for GT content. It didn't work out so the developers released the demo and went back to work on GT5. I don't see how this is a distraction. Any big project at any company grows and evolves and changes over time, GT5 didn't spring from Kaz's head fully formed.

GT PSP was a bad game but remember it was first demoed in like, 2004, and didn't come out until 2009. PD got a lot of heat for the endless delays on that game, just as they did with GT5. So was GT PSP a "distraction" from GT5? I wouldn't say so. It's probably something Sony made them release for the PSP Go launch, yea, but it was announced long prior. There's no way that was under development for 5 years by a full team. And even if it was, it was announced for PSP in 2004. Since when does PD only have the right to make one game at a time?

I really think at this stage there were two options: launch with 200 cars or launch with 200 premium cars and 800 standard ones. PD chose the latter. Considering how long PD claims it takes to make a single car, a bunch of programmers working on 4K mode to show off at trade shows would not have made a big difference in the number of cars.

I never expected a lot of trolling on a sophisticated forum such as AVS. Ever since I started following this particular thread I have not seen any trolling. I have however seen a lot of accusations related to trolling, including being accused of it myself.

In my opinion cuco33 is right. GT criticism is an incredibly touchy subject. It's very similar to admirers of the Apple brand. It's just not possible to voice any criticism without being called a troll or at least being labeled as 'unconstructive', even if the criticism is entirely of a constructive nature.

I can't think of any game with more rabid fans than the GT series. It's completely beyond me why this is because as far as I know nobody is getting paid to defend the GT brand.

I love GT and I've played most of it's incarnations since the PS1 release. I don't see any reason to be completely devoid of criticism towards the franchise though.

Yes, I think GT5 is going to be epic.
No, I don't think it's going to be without flaws or without things that could have been done better. And in my opinion, those things can be discussed.

Why would you blame anyone for any of that. The head tracking is a feature some people like, and the 3D is as well. I for one am looking forward to playing in 3D, just like I'm looking forward to using the photo mode.