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Official HSU ULS-15 Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 2712
The PB13 in sealed mode and the ULS-15 will sound fairly different. The ULS is internally eq'd for anechoic flatness down to 15hz while the PB13 is not and is allowed to naturally rolloff at 12db/octave, similar to the Submersive. Also like the Submersive, it would depend on the sort of room gain you get in a sealed room to give a flat response down into the teens.

The sub that should be most comparable to the ULS-15 would most likely be a Rythmik 15.
post #152 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone215 View Post

So how would these two subs compare, one HSU and one SVS PB 13 ultra in sealed mode? Sound similar, any distinct advantage between one and the other?
I am presently using the SVS (one) and must admit I am intrigued with dual HSU, but just curious about sound quality etc. The SVS is rather large and having two of them in the room would be a stretch, two of the HSU might fit better.
My preferences are clean low distortion accurate. I listen to jazz, classical, electronic and watch blue ray movies at about 50%-50% ratio.
Thank you.
Happy Holidays.

I have the dual drive and the best thing I can say is that with music you don't hear it them it just blends in. With home theater it has great impact.
post #153 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The PB13 in sealed mode and the ULS-15 will sound fairly different. The ULS is internally eq'd for anechoic flatness down to 15hz while the PB13 is not and is allowed to naturally rolloff at 12db/octave, similar to the Submersive. Also like the Submersive, it would depend on the sort of room gain you get in a sealed room to give a flat response down into the teens.

The sub that should be most comparable to the ULS-15 would most likely be a Rythmik 15.

Doesn't EQ'ing typically add distortion?

As for the Rythmik, too bad they don't have nicer boxes/finishes. Surprised it would compare that well to the HSU given the significant amp difference.
post #154 of 2712
It sounds like the HSU is quite a nice set up. I have tried my SVS in all modes and recently have been running it sealed. My room is only 1900 cubic feet, but opens to the kitchen. All of the different settings on the SVS make the sub sound different. I am surprised at the deep base from the sealed mode. Must be room gain.
I can't imaging how nice it might be to have either dual HSU or dual SVS ultras.
Thanks for the input, I wasn't trying to veer this thread off course. I will go back to lurking.
Happy Holidays everyone.
post #155 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Doesn't EQ'ing typically add distortion?

As for the Rythmik, too bad they don't have nicer boxes/finishes. Surprised it would compare that well to the HSU given the significant amp difference.

Eq'ing doesn't literally add distortion, but if the deep bass is boosted, it eats up headroom when those boosted frequencies are played. The higher excursions needed to play those frequencies at high volume can result in distortion as the woofer or amp reaches it's limits. Nevertheless, almost all sealed subs are eq'ed to some extent or another. If not, most would show a rolloff under 40 or 50hz at a 12db/octave slope.

As far as HSU vs Rythmik, the amp differences are not really that much. The 1000w HSU rating is a short-term output rating. It's actually continuous output is 500w vs Rythmik's 370w.
post #156 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Eq'ing doesn't literally add distortion, but if the deep bass is boosted, it eats up headroom when those boosted frequencies are played. The higher excursions needed to play those frequencies at high volume can result in distortion as the woofer or amp reaches it's limits. Nevertheless, almost all sealed subs are eq'ed to some extent or another. If not, most would show a rolloff under 40 or 50hz at a 12db/octave slope.

As far as HSU vs Rythmik, the amp differences are not really that much. The 1000w HSU rating is a short-term output rating. It's actually continuous output is 500w vs Rythmik's 370w.

Interesting. Given the amp rating and box size, there must be a considerable use of EQ below 30ish hz. I'd definitely be interested in seeing subjective measurements of this sub as I find a hard time believing the claims of 20hz and 100db at 5% THD. Based on the results of the Shacks' review and looking at the F113 (larger enclosure, one of the best drivers in the business, and some serious amp power), I highly doubt the ULS would come that close to it, or for that matter, the much larger PB13 in sealed mode which also scored incredibly well.

My search goes on!! Argh! Maybe in this box size I simply need to seriously compromise on the clean output down low, or stick with the one PB13 until I see how the new sealed offerings perform.
post #157 of 2712
I really think that you should call HSU and ask for Pete. He is the best person to answer all of your doubts, because the Walnut version of the ULS-15 would look great flanking your credenza. BTW nice system you have.

All of the other reviewers of this sub claim "high output and low distortion." In my room I do not detect a large amount of distortion. If these subs would have the distortion you believe they have then my wife would have no part of them being in my family room. Instead, she now uses the system more then she use to when I only had the Velodynes.

It appears to me that you are trying hard to talk yourself out of the ULS-15 DD because you live in Canada. That is understandable. I would be hesitant also.

Good luck in your research.
post #158 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

I really think that you should call HSU and ask for Pete. He is the best person to answer all of your doubts, because the Walnut version of the ULS-15 would look great flanking your credenza. BTW nice system you have.

All of the other reviewers of this sub claim "high output and low distortion." In my room I do not detect a large amount of distortion. If these subs would have the distortion you believe they have then my wife would have no part of them being in my family room. Instead, she now uses the system more then she use to when I only had the Velodynes.

It appears to me that you are trying hard to talk yourself out of the ULS-15 DD because you live in Canada. That is understandable. I would be hesitant also.

Good luck in your research.

Honestly, if I could simply purchase them and return them if I found they didn't perform as well as I thought they would "free of shipping", then I'd likely do it.

But all I can find is objective data/opinions on the sub, and I'm not one to simply take what a manufacturer tells me without a grain (or several) of salt. Heck, if I did that I'd have a Bose surround system. I.e., as I do more and more research into subs I simply can't see how the HSU would outperform the PB13 in sealed mode. But one poster does comment "I would expect the ULS-15 to have much greater performance in every respect to a sealed PB13". Or how duals would compare favorably to a single Seaton. Again, both could be true, but without subjective data, for me spending $3k on a few comments that aren't backed by measurements showing CEA2010 limits, GP Measurements/THD, etc. Owner comments all sound great, but I haven't seen any comments from people going from a F113 to a ULS15 or a PB13 to a ULS15 (or vice versa). Pete did email me and mentioned that the sub could do 20hz at 100db at 5% distortion in "their demo room".

I still recall when I tried my brothers old Mirage 12" 150 watt amp sub in my room I thought it was great. Then I went to a Mirage OM200 (dual 8") and thought it was incredible and tough to do better and most reviews I mentioned how incredibly low distortion it put out (never really mentioning what SPL/frequencies, etc), and then went to a PB13 which again was a huge step over the OM200 and I further understood what "low distortion" meant vs. "low distorion at very low frequencies at high SPLs" and this time it was actually backed up by subjective data. Just want to make sure I'm not taking a step backward and spending CDN$3k or more in doing so.

In any event, I feel like I'm hijacking the thread and don't want to detract it any further. Just wish all manufacturers would have the guts to send their woofs to a common testing facility (anechoic chamber perhaps) for testing and provide that data as my guess is they all do it anyhow. But then, none of them do.

Maybe forums like this just cause more paranoia with all HT purchases than they're worth. I recall going through the same thing when I was debating the PB13 vs. the HO vs. whatever else I was looking at at the time!! Stupid AVS.
post #159 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post


Just wish all manufacturers would have the guts to send their woofs to a common testing facility (anechoic chamber perhaps) for testing and provide that data as my guess is they all do it anyhow. But then, none of them do.

From a business perspective, there is probably no benefit for any manufacturer to do that.

Also, consider that your area will not be an anechoic chamber and the wild card in any setup will be the room and its effect it will have on what you hear and measure.


Maybe forums like this just cause more paranoia with all HT purchases than they're worth.

Yes.

Good luck in your search and Happy Holidays.
post #160 of 2712
whats does the SPL vs Freq graph for the dual drive ULS 15 look like? does anyone in here know or has it?
post #161 of 2712
Here is one graph I found:


Quote:
Originally Posted by t6902wf View Post

I did not have enough time to play with this but here is what I measured.
I may have had Audyssey enabled, not sure. Based on my experience it was not because it was cutting output below 14Hz.

This was -6 MV my normal listening level is -10. Beyond this level I "become concerned"

I have measured 114 db peaks in WOW, Master and commander at -10 MV.

post #162 of 2712
since there has been a flurry of activity here and on the HSU forums regarding the ULS15 i just had to stop by and say the 2 ULS 15s that I bought in September are still performing amazingly. I upgraded to dualdrive from a single VTF3.3.

The walnut finish is BEAUTIFUL and is what allowed my wife to approve
post #163 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhobrin View Post

since there has been a flurry of activity here and on the HSU forums regarding the ULS15 i just had to stop by and say the 2 ULS 15s that I bought in September are still performing amazingly. I upgraded to dualdrive from a single VTF3.3.

The walnut finish is BEAUTIFUL and is what allowed my wife to approve

Hey Seth,

We need a little more of a review then that from you. Maybe when you get time you could post your impressions of the DD system and maybe a couple of pics of the subs. What has been the best movie experience you have had since buying the DD? Do you find yourself or even your wife listening to music more?

As Dr Evil would say "throw me a frickin bone here".
post #164 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Hey Seth,

We need a little more of a review then that from you. Maybe when you get time you could post your impressions of the DD system and maybe a couple of pics of the subs. What has been the best movie experience you have had since buying the DD? Do you find yourself or even your wife listening to music more?

As Dr Evil would say "throw me a frickin bone here".

I'll try and come back with some pics. Honestly I bought these when I moved in to a new house from a small apartment. The new house is open concept so the dual drive system is open to many rooms. Layout issues prevent me from placing them in optimal locations. SO I am not getting the performance I was hoping for but I am at least not feeling like I lost something. I am certain if these were places in a non open concept room that they would bring the walls down.

Transformers and Terminator Salvation are the best movies I have seen so far bass wise but I think you all know that

We don't listen to music(other than ipods). We use the system for 100% HT.
post #165 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhobrin View Post

I'll try and come back with some pics. Honestly I bought these when I moved in to a new house from a small apartment. The new house is open concept so the dual drive system is open to many rooms. Layout issues prevent me from placing them in optimal locations. SO I am not getting the performance I was hoping for but I am at least not feeling like I lost something. I am certain if these were places in a non open concept room that they would bring the walls down.

Transformers and Terminator Salvation are the best movies I have seen so far bass wise but I think you all know that

We don't listen to music(other than ipods). We use the system for 100% HT.

Have you tried that movie "9" with your system yet. I watched it not expecting much from the soundtrack but WOW....i actually thought in some parts it hit harder than terminator salvation. I only have dual vtf 2-mk3's and it shakes my house(or townhome, which is the reason I cant get more powerful/bigger subs) I actually had to put gamma boards under them because it is quite wall shaking. I need a single home god d***it
post #166 of 2712
i am really thinking and rethinking getting these subs. the reason is i live in an apartment and there is someone below my apt, and all i keep hearing is how these shake the walls. in all honest opinion, should i judt wait until i move into my own home (which should be this time next year) or is it still feasible to get these subs now?
post #167 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

i am really thinking and rethinking getting these subs. the reason is i live in an apartment and there is someone below my apt, and all i keep hearing is how these shake the walls. in all honest opinion, should i judt wait until i move into my own home (which should be this time next year) or is it still feasible to get these subs now?

In theory, you could keep the volume low -- good luck with that.
post #168 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

i am really thinking and rethinking getting these subs. the reason is i live in an apartment and there is someone below my apt, and all i keep hearing is how these shake the walls. in all honest opinion, should i judt wait until i move into my own home (which should be this time next year) or is it still feasible to get these subs now?

Does your neighbor enjoy seismic events?
post #169 of 2712
I see where the ULSs were on sale last summer. Does anyone know how often HSU rotates the subs on sale? I see the lower models are on sale now and was wondering when the ULSs would be reduced again. (I know this is akin to if you have to ask, you can't afford it.)
post #170 of 2712
Ask away hhawk,

They have only been on sale twice so far since being introduced. They have only been reduced by $100 for the Satin Black, none on the better wood veneers. There is a built in reduction in price if you buy mutiples. Save your money and get at least a Dual Drive.
post #171 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Ask away hhawk,

They have only been on sell twice so far since being introduced. They have only been reduced by $100 for the Satin Black, none on the better wood veneers. There is a built in reduction in price if you buy mutiples. Save your money and get at least a Dual Drive.

Thanks for the info. Love the idea of the non ported model but checkbook says goes for the biggest model now on sale.
post #172 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

They have only been reduced by $100 for the Satin Black, none on the better wood veneers.

The Luxury Finishes were discounted last June.
post #173 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

The Luxury Finishes were discounted last June.

Oops. Age + canadian whiskey = memory

I will blame it on the holidays.
post #174 of 2712
I recalibrated and moved one of the subs from the front(used to be where the HTPC is now) to the side of the room kind of in the arch between the tv room and the fireplace room.

I also changed the phase of the sub in the arch of the rooms to 180 and that immediately made a HUGE difference. My bass is back and its rocking the whole first floor What a difference moving the sub and chaning the phase made.(the phase change made the greatest improvement) Terminator salvation was crazy.
LL
LL
post #175 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhobrin View Post

I recalibrated and moved one of the subs from the front(used to be where the HTPC is now) to the side of the room kind of in the arch between the tv room and the fireplace room.

I also changed the phase of the sub in the arch of the rooms to 180 and that immediately made a HUGE difference. My bass is back and its rocking the whole first floor What a difference moving the sub and chaning the phase made.(the phase change made the greatest improvement) Terminator salvation was crazy.

That sounds more like it. The new placement must now be helping some nulls you had with the other placement. I guess you got the wireless feature to work which is also a plus in your case. Nice place you have there.
post #176 of 2712
So I have my dual drive installed, and got it sounding great at louder movie levels (ie - ironman, terminator...). My only question left is whether I am getting the kind of bass I should expect from TV viewing. It is obviously less bass, but would a ported system (like Ultras.....etc) give me greater OVERALL performance that I would really want or need for movies and TV? (or just muddy up things and give me sloppy boomy noises at incorrect times) Tough for me to tell because I have no comparison. Bottom line is - would I really see a major difference in performance with Ultras or similar or not in my 16x20x10 room? If you could share your experiences where you have experimented with both sub approaches (big ported vs. tight sealed) I would appreciate it.
post #177 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtoo View Post

...is whether I am getting the kind of bass I should expect from TV viewing. It is obviously less bass...

It's not a sealed vs. ported issue. It's really more to do with the source material.
post #178 of 2712
So should I resign myself to fact that I will only really appreciate the impact of these subs with blue ray movies and maybe a little from television if decent feed from direct tv? If so, I can relax and learn to live with my duals in an imperfect world.
post #179 of 2712
I will answer the first part of your question. Any sub will only play the signal presented to it. DVD and Blu-ray discs have less compression in their audio then broadcast TV. There is less bass present on TV because of the compression they use to fit all those channels on cable or satellite. Try this for me, without changing your settings play some Food Channel material. They actually have alot of bass in their signal. You will see what I mean about how much bass is in a particular signal. I also find there is different bass levels even on the digital music channels.

If you like what you hear from the Food channel and you have an AVR that has memory settings abilities, you can then increase the sub channel setting in the AVR louder when you have the TV input selected and a different setting when you watch a movie.

It does take some getting use to accurate subs. They are not like car audio subs. They have a more refine sound.
post #180 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtoo View Post

So should I resign myself to fact that I will only really appreciate the impact of these subs with blue ray movies and maybe a little from television if decent feed from direct tv? If so, I can relax and learn to live with my duals in an imperfect world.

My advice would be to resign yourself to the fact that not all sources or source materials are created equal. It would be an unreasonable expectation to compare the impact from Terminator Salvation on Blu-ray to Judge Judy via satellite. The configuration of your source and its connection as well as your receiver and its configuration will add a mixed-bag of variables for you to sort through.

Enjoy!
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