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Official HSU ULS-15 Thread - Page 66

post #1951 of 2712
I didnt actually play the test tones only the actual songs but i will keep that in mind next time i do it.

have you ever played the HSU test CD tracks?
post #1952 of 2712
Forgot to mention, i had some friends over this weekend to watch some football and decided to let them hear the system. I put on the incredible hulk and played the pulse cannon scene and everyone including myself was underwhelmed. Why is this scene so hard to replicate even with my duals? How low does the frequency in that scene go? Note: I was watching the scene at -5dB at the time. Everything else was fine except that scene so i figured its just simply to low to be properly reproduced by the duals.
post #1953 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

I didnt actually play the test tones only the actual songs but i will keep that in mind next time i do it.

have you ever played the HSU test CD tracks?

Yes, I think Hsu has a great selection of tunes on those tracks. If you want to knock someone out by showing them your setup's dynamics, let track 5 rip, the Requim by Verdi, that thing explodes right out of the box.
post #1954 of 2712
Yup, most definitely. That track is awesome but that is the primary track that they say can damage your system if you play it too loud. to be honest, i dont get much ULF from that track. To me, the drums hit in the "slam" region and i love hearing that.
post #1955 of 2712
Hold up hold up people, I just bottomed my dual drive. I was playing the beginning of Pink Floyd and at 2 parts I heard my sub bottom. In addition, I think I heard it bottom in HTTYD also but I am not too sure.
post #1956 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

Hold up hold up people, I just bottomed my dual drive. I was playing the beginning of Pink Floyd and at 2 parts I heard my sub bottom. In addition, I think I heard it bottom in HTTYD also but I am not too sure.

Hello Kimwyn, you were playing the beginning of which Pink Floyd song? I might believe you had an issue with HTTYD, even though I never did, but I find it hard to believe you had an issue with a song. We just watched Tron Legacy again at near reference and I had wonderful hard hitting bass with no hint of bottoming out including when Sam first drops into the grid from his father's office.
post #1957 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

Hold up hold up people, I just bottomed my dual drive. I was playing the beginning of Pink Floyd and at 2 parts I heard my sub bottom. In addition, I think I heard it bottom in HTTYD also but I am not too sure.

Which song? I can't think of any that would bottom out a sub unless you were stressing the sub.
post #1958 of 2712
It's the beginning of the album Dark side of the Moon, when you have the low bass getting louder and louder. I was playing it at -4dB from reference and it wasn't sounding stressed at all.

With HTTYD, that is the first time I ever heard it bottom and I have played that scene numerous times. I really don't know why because many times today I think I heard it make that "bottoming" sound.

I had a member over to my house today and we had a great time listening to stuff.

I forgot to mention, the sub that bottomed is at 12 o'clock on the volume knob. That is where the EQ1 says you need to start the sub volume at.
post #1959 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post


I forgot to mention, the sub that bottomed is at 12 o'clock on the volume knob. That is where the EQ1 says you need to start the sub volume at.

That may be where the AS-EQ1 instructions say to start, but what position on the volume knob do you end up with after completing the level-matching routine? None of my three ULS-15's are that high--they are all right around 10 o'clock.
post #1960 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

It's the beginning of the album Dark side of the Moon, when you have the low bass getting louder and louder. I was playing it at -4dB from reference and it wasn't sounding stressed at all.

With HTTYD, that is the first time I ever heard it bottom and I have played that scene numerous times. I really don't know why because many times today I think I heard it make that "bottoming" sound.

I had a member over to my house today and we had a great time listening to stuff.

I forgot to mention, the sub that bottomed is at 12 o'clock on the volume knob. That is where the EQ1 says you need to start the sub volume at.

You stated your dual drive bottomed out. Was it both subs or one sub that might not be setup correctly?
post #1961 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post


You stated your dual drive bottomed out. Was it both subs or one sub that might not be setup correctly?

One of the dangers of the level-setting routine is that if one of the subs is in a null, it might require a significantly higher gain to achieve 75dB. If that is the case, that sub should be moved to a different location so that both subs achieve 75dB with a similar gain. Otherwise, one sub could run out of steam before the other.
post #1962 of 2712
I have four the ULS-15s, and was playing something with some solid 25 Hz signals, and I heard a clicking sound in sync with each cycle. Turns out it was a little puff of air leaking from one the screw holes mounting the sub to the baffle. So I dropped in a 25 Hz test signal to verify. Yup.

Brought out the hex wrenches and indeed that screw was barely hand tight. Turns out every screw on all 4 units (except one) was just as weakly tightened. I did not overdo it so as to not warp the basket, just another half turn was all it took to feel secure. All better.
post #1963 of 2712
Roger,

I have a question, do you get useable 10Hz output with your quad drive? Has you ever measured your system? What type of output do you get with your quad drive?
post #1964 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

It's the beginning of the album Dark side of the Moon, when you have the low bass getting louder and louder. I was playing it at -4dB from reference and it wasn't sounding stressed at all.

With HTTYD, that is the first time I ever heard it bottom and I have played that scene numerous times. I really don't know why because many times today I think I heard it make that "bottoming" sound.

I had a member over to my house today and we had a great time listening to stuff.

I forgot to mention, the sub that bottomed is at 12 o'clock on the volume knob. That is where the EQ1 says you need to start the sub volume at.

Man, you've been at this for well over a year. Is there no one near you that can help?
There isn't anything on DSOTM to bottom out your subs, it has to be your settings.
post #1965 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

There isn't anything on DSOTM to bottom out your subs, it has to be your settings.

This is true, only low frequencies could bottom out your subs. I am not that familiar with DSOTM, but I can't believe there is anything there below the 30 hz range let alone the 20s.
post #1966 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

Roger,

I have a question, do you get useable 10Hz output with your quad drive? Has you ever measured your system? What type of output do you get with your quad drive?

I sort of think "usable 10 Hz" is an oxymoron. As I recall, the response did extend down into that range, slowly rolling off. But I started to feel that the subs were occasionally wasting their effort down there so I shifted the ULF Trim control from "16 Hz" to the mid point.

I'll need to do more measurements to see what's really happening.
post #1967 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

Man, you've been at this for well over a year. Is there no one near you that can help?
There isn't anything on DSOTM to bottom out your subs, it has to be your settings.

As i said, i am not sure if it was bottoming of i heard something else but i am no longer in "search" for anything more. I think what i have right now is "fine" enough for now and i am very pleased with how my system sounds at this point. as i mentioned earlier, i had another member over to my place and he said that the system sounds fairly good as it is, so i guess that was a little more reassurance for me. He is the owner of Genesis speakers and a Paradigm Sub 2
post #1968 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I sort of think "usable 10 Hz" is an oxymoron. As I recall, the response did extend down into that range, slowly rolling off. But I started to feel that the subs were occasionally wasting their effort down there so I shifted the ULF Trim control from "16 Hz" to the mid point.

I'll need to do more measurements to see what's really happening.

Thanks for your response Roger but it does bring up a bit of other questions.

1) Why do you consider useable 10Hz an oxymoron? I am not sure if you have seen some graphs of certain movies but two in particular is How to train your dragon and the Incredible Hulk. These 2 movies have very strong content below 10Hz and its only obvious that most systems cannot replicate such content appropriately. And if 20Hz is such that it goes from audible to room shaking then 10Hz can only be further to that direction. So IMO, useable 10Hz means that you can literally feel your bones shaking .

2) Did you find that the performance of your quad drive improved when you changed the ULF trim from 16Hz to the mid point? If so, in what way?
post #1969 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

Thanks for your response Roger but it does bring up a bit of other questions.

1) Why do you consider useable 10Hz an oxymoron? I am not sure if you have seen some graphs of certain movies but two in particular is How to train your dragon and the Incredible Hulk. These 2 movies have very strong content below 10Hz and its only obvious that most systems cannot replicate such content appropriately. And if 20Hz is such that it goes from audible to room shaking then 10Hz can only be further to that direction. So IMO, useable 10Hz means that you can literally feel your bones shaking .

2) Did you find that the performance of your quad drive improved when you changed the ULF trim from 16Hz to the mid point? If so, in what way?

Is a nano-second of 10hz content from a few movies you proably don't own worth the headache? My ULS was flapping during the ship crash scene in X-Men First Class and the beginning of HTTYD. I changed the trim from 16 to the maximum and the problem went away. I don't feel as if I am missing anything. Also, I do recall Pete stating that the Trim knob only shapes the frequency curve. I don't think it is a high pass filter. I could be wrong though.
post #1970 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by morrischestnut60 View Post

Is a nano-second of 10hz content from a few movies you proably don't own worth the headache? My ULS was flapping during the ship crash scene in X-Men First Class and the beginning of HTTYD. I changed the trim from 16 to the maximum and the problem went away. I don't feel as if I am missing anything. Also, I do recall Pete stating that the Trim knob only shapes the frequency curve. I don't think it is a high pass filter. I could be wrong though.

I'm with you... When I first got my duals I was getting a scratching noise during certain scenes. Namely when Sam first drops into the grid in Tron Legacy. I figured out it was 19Hz content that did it. I tried to get rid of the problem and I never could. Figure it must be something in my receiver (Audyssey related?) rather than in the subs. So I turned Audyssey off, turned the ULF Trim knob up, and everything's fine. It's not crazy ruler flat like it was the other way but I'm happy. The "Vampire Scream" scene in the new Fright Night remake shook the crap out of my couch, so that's good enough for me.

As for the effect of the ULF trim knob... Here's a graph of what it did with my dual ULS-15's. This is with a Radio Shack meter so I'm not sure if the subsonic stuff is super accurate, but that's the only meter I have...

post #1971 of 2712
What is everyone using for power conditioning? The ULS is awesome, but it is causing brown outs on my lights in the media room. A UPS throws all sorts of lights sometimes when the sub really hits. Is there a capacitor of some kind that I could put with this?
post #1972 of 2712
Honestly, the sub's amp isn't so powerful that it should be causing brown-outs. Your circuit must already be heavily taxed if it is doing that. I would look into either spreading out your equipment onto other circuits or installing a new circuit.
post #1973 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Honestly, the sub's amp isn't so powerful that it should be causing brown-outs. Your circuit must already be heavily taxed if it is doing that. I would look into either spreading out your equipment onto other circuits or installing a new circuit.

Good advice.
post #1974 of 2712
Just out of curiousity, is putting a UPS on a subwoofer with a large potential power draw even a good idea? Subs often need to have a sudden large power draw, wouldn't a UPS limit that?
post #1975 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

Thanks for your response Roger but it does bring up a bit of other questions.

1) Why do you consider useable 10Hz an oxymoron? I am not sure if you have seen some graphs of certain movies but two in particular is How to train your dragon and the Incredible Hulk. These 2 movies have very strong content below 10Hz and its only obvious that most systems cannot replicate such content appropriately.

Including the dubbing stages on which they were mixed, and any commercial cinema. Some of that may be there, but why?

Quote:


And if 20Hz is such that it goes from audible to room shaking then 10Hz can only be further to that direction. So IMO, useable 10Hz means that you can literally feel your bones shaking .

I get that feeling when justified. Like Master & Commander on DVD.

Quote:


2) Did you find that the performance of your quad drive improved when you changed the ULF trim from 16Hz to the mid point? If so, in what way?

99.9% of the time it sounds exactly as before. It only improved by not imparting overt ULF activity which seemed unrealistic.
post #1976 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Honestly, the sub's amp isn't so powerful that it should be causing brown-outs. Your circuit must already be heavily taxed if it is doing that. I would look into either spreading out your equipment onto other circuits or installing a new circuit.

Very good point, however, the only items on that circuit are 4 lights (60 watt bulbs in sconces), fan (turned off when happening), projector, AVR, cable box, BDP, and sub.

Also, by circuit, I am referring specifically to the fuse box circuit, not a single power outlet -- I know I would get SOMEONE who would comment on that.
post #1977 of 2712
To my way of thinking, that is alot for one circuit.

When I had the electrical done for mine I had ten circuits installed for the theater room. In my system, each sub and each amp is on its own curcuit. The projector has its own circuit. The AVR, BDP, HDP, and Cable box share the same circuit. The room lights are on their own circuit.
post #1978 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Woodruff View Post

To my way of thinking, that is alot for one circuit.

When I had the electrical done for mine I had ten circuits installed for the theater room. In my system, each sub and each amp is on its own curcuit. The projector has its own circuit. The AVR, BDP, HDP, and Cable box share the same circuit. The room lights are on their own circuit.

All I have to say is WOW. It would be nice to do that on a build from scratch, but here in Texas, they usually put one circuit per room and it is not so easy to go back and fix that. I doubt putting a higher amperage breaker on it will matter since it is not flipping the breaker. Other thoughts?
post #1979 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttusqrl View Post

Very good point, however, the only items on that circuit are 4 lights (60 watt bulbs in sconces), fan (turned off when happening), projector, AVR, cable box, BDP, and sub.

Also, by circuit, I am referring specifically to the fuse box circuit, not a single power outlet -- I know I would get SOMEONE who would comment on that.

What size circuit is it? If it is only 10 amps then it is to small for the job at hand. I had two 20 Amps dedicated circuits ran to the family room that was purposely built for HT. All of the components are plugged into those two circuits then two more 15 amp circuits are also in the family room. So I have 4 subs in the same room plugged into Monster Cable MP SW 200 protectors and no lights dim even when the refrigerator turns on in the kitchen. That is 3 ULS-15s and a Velodyne sub. You should investigate getting an electrician to your home to certify the outlets in your room.
post #1980 of 2712
I believe it is a 15 amp (1440 watts) breaker. I might try the cheap route of upgrading it to a 20 amp (1920 watts) this weekend and see if it solves the issue. If not, then it is time for an electrician to visit or look at running a dual breaker setup for that room.
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