Official HSU ULS-15 Thread - Page 67

Originally Posted by ttusqrl

I believe it is a 15 amp (1440 watts) breaker. I might try the cheap route of upgrading it to a 20 amp (1920 watts) this weekend and see if it solves the issue. If not, then it is time for an electrician to visit or look at running a dual breaker setup for that room.

Originally Posted by toolwarrior

Good evening.
I am hoping that all the experts in here can help me figure out what is wrong with my new ULS-15 and/or my AVR setup of it. I researched the heck out of subs and landed on this one after doing my homework. However,since hooking it up, I have been very underwhelmed to the point that there must be something wrong - either with settings or with the ULS, itself. The ULS replaces an older Velodyne ULD-12. I recently upgraded my AVR to an ONKYO 809. At the time, I did not have the Hsu so I just hooked the Velodyne up. It rocked the house with no setting changes to the AVR. In other words, I was running at 0 dB on the AVR. Granted, I had the Velodyne amp box turned up to the 1 o'clock position, but is common for this unit when you want the a good punch during movies. However, when I got the ULS and hooked it up, with no setting changes on the AVR, I could not get but a wimper out of the ULS. I have been trying to figure out what is going on ever since. I have been at this a week now and I thought I would post here before calling HSU. Tonight was probably the best so far in terms of getting the thing to perform to some reasonable level. However, to get approximately 76 dB on my Radio Shack dB meter, I had to turn the Hsu volume up to the third mark and the AVR had to have the subwoofer correction bumped all the way up to +7dB (it maxes out at +9dB). I have never been able to get the Hsu to rock the house like the Velodyne does. But the worst part is that the Hsu is putting out a tone (when no content is playing through the AVR) that sounds something like an ocean far off in the distance. This is not the same as a hum or buzz from feedback. The sound starts to become hard to hear when the Hsu volume knob is at the second mark up (from the fully off position). It is the worst when the wireless is turned on and the other toggle is switched to "out" If I turn the wireless toggle to off, then the sound is significantly reduced, but not gone. Any volume level above the second mark and this tone becomes unacceptable. So if I add it all up, to get any reasonable sound out of the Hsu, I have to be on at least the third volume mark and the AVR has to be at the +7dB level. This tone and these settings just don't seem like something that I should be experiencing with the quality of a Hsu sub. Please, can anyone shed some light on what I am doing wrong? I am so frustrated. I want to love this sub like so many of you do, but as it stands, my 10 year old Velodyne is blowing this thing out of the water.

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

I read your post twice, and I'm not sure I am understanding everything you are reporting. Let's start with the suspicious sound coming from the sub. You say it is worst when the wireless switch is on. Well, assuming your sub is connected to the AVR with a wired cable, the wireless switch should never be turned on. Try this: unplug the wired connection to the AVR and then turn up the sub's gain control. Can you still hear the noise, and does it get worse at higher gain settings? If yes, the sub is the source of the noise, and could be either defective electronics, or some sort of a strong electrical disturbance in the vicinity (not very likely). If you can't hear the noise when the audio cable is unplugged, but it returns when you plug the cable back in, then the cable or the AVR is the problem.

Now for the sub level. When you play the speaker level-setting tone from the AVR for the sub channel, you should be able hold your SPL close to the sub and adjust the sub's gain so that it reads 75dB. Once that is completed, continue playing the test tone and measure the sub's output at your primary listening point. If the sub's volume is significantly lower than 75dB, then the sub or seating position is in a null, and you have a placement problem that needs fixing.

Finally, please confirm that your speakers are all set to "small". Otherwise, you aren't sending any low frequencies to the sub. Do you use any kind of room correction on your AVR (e.g. Audyssey)?

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

......Do you use any kind of room correction on your AVR (e.g. Audyssey)?

Originally Posted by toolwarrior


Sorry again, AustinJerry. I missed this quesiton first time through. The Onkyo 809 does have Audyssey MultiEQ XT, however, before letting Audyssey fiddle with the level settings and introduce yet another variable. I am changing all levels and settings manually at this point.

BTW, I went to school in Austin. Graduated from UT years ago. Best years of my life. Wish I could have stayed. Austin is a great town.

Originally Posted by Kimwyn

I think because you are using the wireless connection is the reason you are having those problems. Your dilemma seems like the signal is the problem. If you read some of the posts within this thread with regards to the wireless, it doesn't work for everyone. Have you changed the channels on the wireless hub? Try that and see what happens. The wireless connection never worked for me and I used to get the same noise that you are speaking of the only difference is, I still got the sub to do what it is supposed to.

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

toolwarrior, are you using a Y adaptor from your LFE out of the AVR into the wireless sender?

Originally Posted by toolwarrior


Yes. I just re-used the same Y-splitter (female RCA to twin male RCA) that came with my decade old Velodyne. I then have an RCA extension cable that is about 2 feet long that plugs into the wireless hub. One question I had was on the polarity. The y-splitter cable was not marked in any way, so I was not sure which or even if there was a specific orientation that this was supposed to be in before it entered the wireless hub. The Onkyo has a specific single RCA main subwoofer out. This is what I plugged the Y-splitter into.

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

Thanks for the additional details. I suspect the unwanted noise you are hearing is some sort of wireless interference. I was never able to get the wireless connection working for my ULS-15's without static noise. Others on this thread have reported similar issues, which is unfortunate, because a reliable wireless connection would be desirable and, in your case, perhaps essential. I recommend temporarily using a wired connection to see if the problem goes away. If it does, then you can try several things, like trying different wireless channels or turning off other wireless devices (cordless phones, wireless routers) to see if you can isolate the cause.

Regarding the weak bass level, there is something I still am not understanding. There are two controls that affect the overall bass level--the gain control on the back of the sub, and the sub channel trim level in the AVR. The +7 level in the AVR is not really an issue, but if you are concerned about it, then simply raise the sub gain and lower the AVR trim. My gain controls are approx 11 o'clock on the dial. The important thing is that you establish a measured level of 75dB at the primary listening point. Once this is accomplished, I recommend running Audyssey RC. If you have room issues, Audyssey will be a step in the right direction. If you feel that the AVR trim level is still too high after running Audyssey, raise the gain level on the sub and re-run Audyssey. (Note that if the trim is +12, i.e. maxed out, then you MUST raise the sub gain and re-run the RC.). And finally, if the trim is in an acceptable range, but the bass is still weak, then it is perfectly acceptable to raise the AVR trim level to achieve levels more to your liking. Raise the AVR trim, not the sub gain.

HTG's suggestion of driving the wireless transmitter using both the left and right signals from the AVR using a Y-cable is definitely something to try as well. I believe it raises the signal level to the sub by approx 6dB, which may help your situation.

+1 on Austin being a nice town! It's never too late to come back...

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

^ How was your Velodyne hooked up? It wasn't wireless, was it? If not, why can't you connect the ULS-15 in the same way, at least long enough to determine if the strange noise is coming from the wireless connection? Eliminating the noise is key to getting the sub configured properly.

One thing to remember, and you have most likely heard it before--until you get used to it, good bass can sound like no bass at all.

Originally Posted by toolwarrior

Wow, I have to say that the guys in this thread are great. I am getting more responses to my problem here than in the Onkyo 809 thread. There, they pretty much ignore you if you are not some kind of super theatre geek. Well, I guess I am a super theatre geek, so I am not sure why no responses there.... Anyway, I have to apologize again for not being clear. However, now that you have establised the proper nomenclature, then I will use this to be more clear. As you guessed, It is the AVR sub channel trim that I had up to +7dB. It is the sub gain that I tried to keep at 2nd mark (about the 9 o'clock position) because anything higher than this would allow the "ocean off in the distance" sound to be unacceptable when a music track finished and the room got quiet. However, this was just not possible to do as the sub was just not putting much of any sound out. I think that if I can get this crazy tone to go away then I will be able to turn the sub gain up further. I curently have it set at about the same point as you, but the tone is too loud and the sub is still not nearly as affective as the old Velodyne. The concern with having the AVR sub channel trim at +7dB is that this is so close to max. The AVR will only let you go to +9dB. So, in summary, I have the sub gain at about the same position as you and I have the AVR sub trim near the max setting and still not getting good punch. I did not need to adjust the AVR sub trim for the Velodyne off of 0dB and the dishes were ready to shake off of the cabinet shelves. I just don't get this kind of deep base response from the ULS-15. I expected a high end 15 inch sub to perform better than a 10 year old 12 inch sub. Granted, Velodyne is not a low end sub, but neither is the Hsu. So I will continue the analysis and try all the suggestions I have received from you guys. If you think of anything else, let me know. Thanks again. I will keep you posted on what I find.

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

Because of the interference you are getting and you only have the sub gain at the 9:00 position that is why you are unimpressed with the ULS-15. I have been helping ppl for almost three years now on the getting the most from the ULS-15 and this is the first time I heard someone describe "ocean off in the distance" sound. So you are saying this sounds like white noise? Most of us owners seem to end up around the 10:30 to 11:00 range on the sub gain, which at this setting and after calibration, the AVR sub trim is right at the sweet spot of -2dB to 0dB setting.

If you do have to go wired you know that you could place a Y adapter near the Velodyne and then run a single wire over to the ULS-15 since the ULS-15 does not need a Y adapter into the inputs of the sub like most Velodyne do.

Keep us updated.

Originally Posted by toolwarrior

Thank you, hometheatergeek. After seeing posts from a number of folks here, I would now agree that the 9 o'clock position is too low, but I don't see how the AVR will ever be able to get to the -2dB to 0. Even with the sub gain turned up to the 11 position, The AVR still needs to be in the +4.5dB range just to be detectable to my ear. But even at these settings, the ULS is not performing as well as the Velodyne. The sweet spot for the Velodyne was at 0dB on the AVR. Since the Onkyo 809 does not allow you to adjust two subs individually, I now have a scenerio where the ULS wants high AVR gain settings and the Velodyne does not. The Velodyne completely dominates the sound so it is as if the ULS is not even there.

To your question about the "far off ocean" sound. Yes, I guess it is quite similar to white noise. I was struggling to find a way to describe it, but wanted to make sure that folks understood that it was not a buzz or hum like you would experience if there was some kind of feedback or interference. But white noise does describe it pretty well. It is much worse when the wirless toggle is engaged. It does not completely disappear, though, when the wireless is shut off, so a wired solution will not completely solve this. If none of you get this white noise on your ULS, I have to wonder if something is wrong with the Sub.

I think I follow what you are saying on the cable issue. If a wired solution was the ultimate solution, I think my approach would be a y-splitter connected to the AVR RCA sub out. I can then run a single RCA to both the subs. However, as you stated, the Velodyne wants twin inputs into the controller, so I would need another y-splitter to then connect to the Velodyne. As I look at the back of the ULS, it also wants twin RCA inputs. So if I am not mistaken, I will also have to use another y splitter to make the final connection to the ULS. I am not an electrical guy, so I don't quite follow why both subs want twin RCA inputs, but most AVR's have only a single RCA out. Why all the Y-splitting to two? Why not just have one RCA out of the AVR to one RCA on the subs? I am sure there is a reason.

Thanks again for all the great support. I will continue the analysis today.

Originally Posted by toolwarrior


Since the Onkyo 809 does not allow you to adjust two subs individually, I now have a scenerio where the ULS wants high AVR gain settings and the Velodyne does not. The Velodyne completely dominates the sound so it is as if the ULS is not even there.

Originally Posted by Kimwyn

just to let you guys know, i think i will be a quad owner by mid year . just cant get enough of teh goodness.

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

OK, now we are getting somewhere. If you are going to continue using the Velodyne (which was not clear to me in the beginning), then you need to gain-match the two subs. This will ensure that they are playing at the same level so that the trim setting in the AVR drives both subs equally. Here is an outline of the gain-matching procedure:

1. Pick a spot in the center of your room away from the walls.
2. Move the first sub to that spot, and connect the audio and power cables.
3. Place the SPL meter immediately in front of the sub's cone, at a distance of 1-2 inches, centered on the cone.
4. Mark the position of the sub (using masking tape is a good way).
5. Run the sub channel level-setting tone from the AVR and adjust the sub's gain to the desired level (I use 90 dB).
6. Being very careful not to disturb the SPL meter's position, remove the first sub and replace it with the second sub. Make sure it is lined up exactly as the first sub with respect to the SPL.
7. Running the AVR test tone, adjust the second sub's gain to match the first sub's (90 dB).
8. Place the two subs back in the position you want them to be.
9. Run Audyssey room correction (a critical step, IMO, otherwise you aren't correcting for room issues).
10. Observe what trim level Audyssey sets in the AVR. Ideally, it should be in the -3 to +3 dB range. If it is too far towards either limit, go back to step 5 and use either a lower or higher target gain level, depending on your final results.

By using this procedure, you will ensure that both subs are outputting at the same level. Want to give it a try? (Obviously I like typing more than HTG...)

Originally Posted by Kimwyn

just to let you guys know, i think i will be a quad owner by mid year . just cant get enough of teh goodness.

Originally Posted by Kimwyn

I definitely understand what you are saying but i just simply crave more and more bass it has nothing to do with anything i feel is lacking.....since the AS-EQ1, i dont think i am really lacking anything, it sounds quite fine to me but i just want more.

Originally Posted by sputter1

but, but, but, you're not getting it man. There is more in midbass. More than you think. Are you crossing over your subs in 100hz range?

Originally Posted by Kimwyn

My DD is crossed at 100Hz.

Originally Posted by Kimwyn

What subs do you have and what mains are you using?