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Official HSU ULS-15 Thread - Page 87

post #2581 of 2712
Thanks
post #2582 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post


Have you tried the subwoofer crawl yet?

Are you still sitting in the middle of the room?

Did you follow the Audyssey calibration guide?

What are the settings on the sub and AVR?

How big is your room with contiguous area?

Cant't put sub where i sit as cable not long enough and wireless not reliable. But crawling around where i put my sub, where i sit around the middle has the best bass! (despite what the textbook says)

Yes did another calibration following the audyssesy guide and the extreme sub bass boost is gone.

Sub at 11 o clock, crossover out(off), ulf 9 o clock.

Volumes from calibration: front L +6.5 C +8.5 R +6.5 SW +7 SR +7 SL +5 dB
Crossovers at 80Hz throughout.
Input -12dB to minimise dynamic EQ on, dynamic volume LOW

Room 17' wide 19' deep. Height is a 30deg gradient lowest at front highest at rear midpoint height 10'. No contiguous room but there is a lot of glass (80% right wall covered by curtain, 30% L wall no cover)

Waiting for long sub cable, spl meter to check everything
Edited by joker97 - 8/23/13 at 3:17pm
post #2583 of 2712
Most shows are ok inc oblivion. But transformers 2 is a struggle.
post #2584 of 2712

Just a quick note on ULF Trim settings and the Audyssey calibration.  First, here are measurements showing the effect of three settings of the ULF Trim dial:

 

 

It is important that you set ULF Trim properly before you run Audyssey, and the setting depends on what you want to do with the bass response after the Audyssey calibration has completed.

 

Regardless of the ULF Trim setting, Audyssey will measure your sub's response and create filters to try and achieve the flattest response possible.  So, if you set ULF=50 before running Audyssey, you will end up with a flat response with this setting.  Then, if you want to increase the low end bass response after the calibration, you can adjust the ULF control to a lower value, and get the results shown in the graph above.

 

If, however, you want to be able to tone down the lower end bass response, e.g. if your room tends to be boomy, then start with ULF=16, run the calibration, and then you can adjust ULF to a higher value in order to reduce the bass.

 

So, once you know how it works, and you have decided what the post-calibration objective is, the ULF setting becomes a powerful tool to dial in the right bass response!

post #2585 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Just a quick note on ULF Trim settings and the Audyssey calibration.  First, here are measurements showing the effect of three settings of the ULF Trim dial:




It is important that you set ULF Trim properly before you run Audyssey, and the setting depends on what you want to do with the bass response after the Audyssey calibration has completed.

Regardless of the ULF Trim setting, Audyssey will measure your sub's response and create filters to try and achieve the flattest response possible.  So, if you set ULF=50 before running Audyssey, you will end up with a flat response with this setting.  Then, if you want to increase the low end bass response after the calibration, you can adjust the ULF control to a lower value, and get the results shown in the graph above.

If, however, you want to be able to tone down the lower end bass response, e.g. if your room tends to be boomy, then start with ULF=16, run the calibration, and then you can adjust ULF to a higher value in order to reduce the bass.

So, once you know how it works, and you have decided what the post-calibration objective is, the ULF setting becomes a powerful tool to dial in the right bass response!

Jerry - just to follow up, is the curve with ULS=50 run with the ULS setting @ 50 when you made your Audyssey cal, and kept at 50 after the call? And likewise for the ULS=16 curve?
post #2586 of 2712
Thanks, Stuart, I should have been more clear. The example graph shows the post-calibration measurements when the ULF Trim was set to 50 before the calibration. As the ULF is adjusted to "mid-point" and then 16, the low bass is boosted. Kind of like a "house curve".
post #2587 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Thanks, Stuart, I should have been more clear. The example graph shows the post-calibration measurements when the ULF Trim was set to 50 before the calibration. As the ULF is adjusted to "mid-point" and then 16, the low bass is boosted. Kind of like a "house curve".

For Audyssey users, that's a clever way of deriving one. Maybe even a better slope than you can get with the Target Curve Editor in some circumstances.
post #2588 of 2712
Yes, it is. Different subs have other ways of doing something similar. For example, Keith described how he calibrates his Submersives with a switch on EQ1, and changes it to EQ2 after the calibration has completed in order to get a similar low-end boost. Preference land....
post #2589 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by joker97 View Post

Cant't put sub where i sit as cable not long enough and wireless not reliable. But crawling around where i put my sub, where i sit around the middle has the best bass! (despite what the textbook says)

Yes did another calibration following the audyssesy guide and the extreme sub bass boost is gone.

Sub at 11 o clock, crossover out(off), ulf 9 o clock.

Volumes from calibration: front L +6.5 C +8.5 R +6.5 SW +7 SR +7 SL +5 dB
Crossovers at 80Hz throughout.

Your trim settings appear to be boosted pretty high.

Input -12dB to minimise dynamic EQ on, dynamic volume LOW

I would try to minimize the attenuation on this input, turn Dynamic EQ and Volume OFF. Rerun Audyssey.

Room 17' wide 19' deep. Height is a 30deg gradient lowest at front highest at rear midpoint height 10'. No contiguous room but there is a lot of glass (80% right wall covered by curtain, 30% L wall no cover)

You might consider nearfield placement. This is around the limit of one ULS, in my opinion.

Waiting for long sub cable, spl meter to check everything

Cool -- that will help. I inserted a couple of comments above, BTW.




Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Thanks, Stuart, I should have been more clear. The example graph shows the post-calibration measurements when the ULF Trim was set to 50 before the calibration. As the ULF is adjusted to "mid-point" and then 16, the low bass is boosted. Kind of like a "house curve".

Jerry: Is there any concern that Audyssey would try to boost frequencies <50Hz during calibration? Would this be similar to setting the sub's crossover to IN and adjusting the crossover to 80Hz before auto EQ (i.e., boosting attenuated frequencies?
post #2590 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

Jerry: Is there any concern that Audyssey would try to boost frequencies <50Hz during calibration? Would this be similar to setting the sub's crossover to IN and adjusting the crossover to 80Hz before auto EQ (i.e., boosting attenuated frequencies?

 

Audyssey doesn't know what any of the sub's settings are.  It simply measures the in-room response of the sub and creates filters to achieve flattest sound.  Setting the ULF Trim to 16, or 50, or somewhere in between, simply alters the in-room response for the sub, and Audyssey acts on what it hears.  I don't recommend engaging the sub's internal crossover.

post #2591 of 2712
Quote:
I don't recommend engaging the sub's internal crossover.

+1.

Leave bass management to the AVR. However, there is one scenario in which you can engage sub's internal crossover i.e. when you have a hump in xo region. By employing sub's LPF, you can achieve cascading effect of two LPF (Sub and AVR) and it will bring down the hump.
post #2592 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post


+1.

Leave bass management to the AVR. However, there is one scenario in which you can engage sub's internal crossover i.e. when you have a hump in xo region. By employing sub's LPF, you can achieve cascading effect of two LPF (Sub and AVR) and it will bring down the hump.

Actually that is not the best way to remove the hump. The better way is to use some sort of RTA program to graph the response and then use the distance setting in the AVR to fine tune the region around the xo.

post #2593 of 2712
Sorry, the sub's crossover example was only a hypothetical situation. What I'm trying to ask: Are the filters applied by Audyssey going to cause the sub's amp/driver to operate closer to its limits as the attenuated trim frequencies are boosted to try to achieve a flat response? As we know, the Audyssey software does not know the ULF trim is engaged and will simply ping and apply trim/boost to attempt to flatten the result. Thanks.
post #2594 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Actually that is not the best way to remove the hump. The better way is to use some sort of RTA program to graph the response and then use the distance setting in the AVR to fine tune the region around the xo.

Very correct, HTG. I have gotten into the habit immediately after completing a calibration of setting up REW and adjusting the sub delay settings to achieve the smoothest response at the crossover. Since the last year has been an endless journey of adding acoustic treatments to my listening room in an effort to eliminate bass resonances, I have had plenty of practice running calibrations and conducting the post-calibration "sub distance tweak". I have noticed as the room's acoustics have improved, the magnitude of the distance tweaks required to achieve the best response have become smaller and smaller. Not sure why-just mentioning an observation. And on another note, the addition of bass traps (I am up to sixteen 4'x8' panels) has produced a dramatic reduction in bass ringing, measured by the waterfall graph.
post #2595 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

Sorry, the sub's crossover example was only a hypothetical situation. What I'm trying to ask: Are the filters applied by Audyssey going to cause the sub's amp/driver to operate closer to its limits as the attenuated trim frequencies are boosted to try to achieve a flat response? As we know, the Audyssey software does not know the ULF trim is engaged and will simply ping and apply trim/boost to attempt to flatten the result. Thanks.

WTF, I'm still not sure I understand your question. Whether the ULF trim is set to 16, or 50, before the calibration, I don't think the result puts the sub any closer to its limits. At least in my experience, I haven't observed any difference.
post #2596 of 2712
Thanks. I guess i just needed to know if my sub is fine or broken and sounds like it's ok. I might even reduce dyn EQ further by reducing the line boosts. I have run audyssesy many times and it always come up wi the same result.

Just another question ... Which spl meter can do sub bass accurately? Will the radioshack one do? It says it is only rated down to 30Hz?
post #2597 of 2712

Yes, the RS SPL is good enough.

 

OK, back to your issue with the sub clipping or bottoming out.  You should determine in what circumstances the clipping occurs.  Do you have an RS SPL?  If you don't have some sort of an SPL, trouble-shooting will be next to impossible.  Trouble-shooting steps:

 

1.  Using the SPL, run the AVR's subwoofer level-setting test tone (with the sub trim set to 0), and adjust the subwoofer's gain control to achieve 75dB at the MLP.  Note:  you should be able to achieve 75dB with a sub gain setting somewhere in the 10 O'clock to 12 O'clock position on the dial.  If you need to go higher, something could be wrong.

2.  With this gain setting, run Audyssey room correction.

3.  Check the sub's trim level after Audyssey completes.  What is the trim level?  It should NEVER be -12 or +12.  Ideally, it should be somewhere in the middle, say -5 to +5.

4.  Download the RealTraps test CD (http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm), burn the files to a CD, and load it into your player.

5.  Start with a conservative AVR master volume setting, say -30, with Audyssey turned on and DEQ turned off.

6.  Play Track 4 on the CD (40-49Hz).  Do you hear clipping?

7.  If not, play Track 3 (30-39Hz).  If still no clipping, play Track 2 (20-29Hz).

8.  If you receive any clipping for any of the tracks at MV -30, report results here.

9.  If still no clipping, raise the MV to -20 and repeat steps 6-8.  Report here if you hear clipping.

10. If still no clipping, raise the MV to -10 and repeat steps 6-8.  Report here if you hear clipping.

11. If still no clipping, perhaps you don't have a problem after all.  You can try turning on DEQ and running the tests again.

 

The purpose of running these tests is to determine what frequencies and levels cause clipping or over-driving of the sub.  Depending on the results, we can determine whether your sub is defective.  Please report back here with your findings.

post #2598 of 2712
The guy didnt give me the hsu uls 15 test cd. Is there anywhere i can download it? If not i will ask him to mail it to me.
post #2599 of 2712
Why can't you use the one I provided the link for?
post #2600 of 2712
Sure can. Now to hunt down spl metre
post #2601 of 2712
Here is the tones that Hsu sends out on their CDs.
post #2602 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by joker97 View Post


Just another question ... Which spl meter can do sub bass accurately? Will the radioshack one do? It says it is only rated down to 30Hz?

It's good enough, but you need to understand the limitations, and how to properly use it (which settings). Bass will read about 3dB low in around 60~80Hz, and will read even lower in lower frequencies. So if you calibrate your speakers and sub to the same SPL level on the meter, the sub will actually be +/- 3dB hotter or louder than the speakers.
post #2603 of 2712
I am in. Ordered the dual drive on Sunday. Looking forward to the 'labor day' long weekend when I expect some muscle will be required to find the right home for the twins. smile.gif
post #2604 of 2712

^^ Well then welcome to the club. You did good starting off with the dual drive. Can you tell us the associate equipment that you will be hooking the subwoofers to?

post #2605 of 2712
^^

Thanks HTG. I have read this whole thread over the past two weeks. I have to say the reading was very entertaining besides being informative.

You can click on the 'HT' link in my signature. It is all current since I just updated them today. smile.gif

I also just ordered two Auralex SubDude II which I believe will be of great help as I have hardwood floor.
post #2606 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHadoWFoX View Post

^^

Thanks HTG. I have read this whole thread over the past two weeks. I have to say the reading was very entertaining besides being informative.

You can click on the 'HT' link in my signature. It is all current since I just updated them today. smile.gif

I also just ordered two Auralex SubDude II which I believe will be of great help as I have hardwood floor.

If there was an actual link I would click on it but all I see is Shadow Fox. confused.gif


Edited by hometheatergeek - 8/26/13 at 5:32pm
post #2607 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHadoWFoX View Post

I am in. Ordered the dual drive on Sunday. Looking forward to the 'labor day' long weekend when I expect some muscle will be required to find the right home for the twins. smile.gif

Congrats and welcome to the dual drive family you will not be disappointed.
post #2608 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

If there was an actual link I would click on it but all I see is Shadow Fox.
Try this.
post #2609 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

If there was an actual link I would click on it but all I see is Shadow Fox. confused.gif

I guess you are using mobile based browser which does not show the signature. I see Roger has provided a direct link to it. ( Thanks. Roger )

I use desktop PC most of the time and I just noticed how trimmed back the mobile version is. I guess it is always bad to assume what you see is the norm. frown.gif

The dual drive will arrive on Wednesday. Glad my son is still at home to help out.
post #2610 of 2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHadoWFoX View Post


I guess you are using mobile based browser which does not show the signature. I see Roger has provided a direct link to it. ( Thanks. Roger )

I use desktop PC most of the time and I just noticed how trimmed back the mobile version is. I guess it is always bad to assume what you see is the norm. frown.gif

The dual drive will arrive on Wednesday. Glad my son is still at home to help out.

No I am on my desktop using IE10 and if you look at my signature and Roger's signature there is a link in our sigs but all I see on yours is Shadow Fox. Anyway there are a couple of ways to move the subs around. You could pick up some furniture sliders from places like Walmart or Bed Bath and Beyond or place a large bath towel on the floor and turn the ULS-15 on it's side and then slide it along the floor. You will be surprised how heavy these subs are once they are delivered.

 

Edit: I just looked at your community profile and sure enough below your name is a link but for some odd reason does not show up in your posts.

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