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Best Media Player... Excellent Interface, Sound Quality, and Blu Ray Quality Video

post #1 of 59
Thread Starter 
Hi Guys,

I am looking to buy a top of the line media player for my living room/home theatre. I am looking for something that essentially does what the Popcorn Hour A-110 does but has far better audio and video playback, along with a better interface. Cost is not an issue within reason (sub $2500).

It needs to do the following:
  • Perfect FLAC playback... as good as a Classe or Lyngdorf Cd Player
  • Excellent Video Playback... Playing Ripped Blu Rays and various media types (avi, mpeg...)
  • Excellent Interface.... Something like a Kaleidescape Interface
  • Ethernet Connectivity... to Connect to a Media Server

Your help is much appreciated!
post #2 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

Hi Guys,

I am looking to buy a top of the line media player for my living room/home theatre. I am looking for something that essentially does what the Popcorn Hour A-110 does but has far better audio and video playback, along with a better interface. Cost is not an issue within reason (sub $2500).

It needs to do the following:
  • Perfect FLAC playback... as good as a Classe or Lyngdorf Cd Player
  • Excellent Video Playback... Playing Ripped Blu Rays and various media types (avi, mpeg...)
  • Excellent Interface.... Something like a Kaleidescape Interface
  • Ethernet Connectivity... to Connect to a Media Server

Your help is much appreciated!

Farris, not to be a cynic, because lately I'm being accused of being too negative...but honestly, what you are looking for simply doesn't exist. Don't you think your expectations are WAYYY too high? You want audio playback equivalent to 4-figure CD players, a plethora of file types supported...and an interface to rival a 5-figure video streamer? And you want it for under $2500. Probably the only thing that would come remotely close is something you would build yourself.

But even then, you couldn't get the kind of audio playback you seek. IMO, the only FLAC streamers that will get you the kind of SQ you're looking for are a Squeezebox or Sonos into a good external DAC, or a Transporter. And NONE of them do video.

Just out of curiousity, what makes you think the PCH has anything less than excellent video playback, and a sexy GUI in YAMJ? My A-110 looks FLAWLESS on my Kuro, and I'm getting ready to test it on the big screen in the HT.

CD
post #3 of 59
Thread Starter 
I have read reviews of the popcorn hour and it seems to have mediocre sound quality and some smearing on HD movies.

So there is no kind of high end popcorn hour? Is there one available at any price point?

As I am spending about $50k on other equipment I want something really good quality.




Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Farris, not to be a cynic, because lately I'm being accused of being too negative...but honestly, what you are looking for simply doesn't exist. Don't you think your expectations are WAYYY too high? You want audio playback equivalent to 4-figure CD players, a plethora of file types supported...and an interface to rival a 5-figure video streamer? And you want it for under $2500. Probably the only thing that would come remotely close is something you would build yourself.

But even then, you couldn't get the kind of audio playback you seek. IMO, the only FLAC streamers that will get you the kind of SQ you're looking for are a Squeezebox or Sonos into a good external DAC, or a Transporter. And NONE of them do video.

Just out of curiousity, what makes you think the PCH has anything less than excellent video playback, and a sexy GUI in YAMJ? My A-110 looks FLAWLESS on my Kuro, and I'm getting ready to test it on the big screen in the HT.

CD
post #4 of 59
I think your better off getting something like a mac mini with plex or something.

I heard that it doesn't have problems playing 1080p blue-ray rips, but can stutter occasionally? depending on the processor you got in the mini.

Mo
post #5 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

I am looking to buy a top of the line media player for my living room/home theatre. I am looking for something that essentially does what the Popcorn Hour A-110 does but has far better audio and video playback, along with a better interface. Cost is not an issue within reason (sub $2500).
[/b]

Hi Farris,

I am in a similar boat. I have spent the past 12 years in various phases of home theater development including 3 gun CRTs (prior to digital projectors), HTPCs, video calibration, etc. One area that I haven't focused on is the content side other than renting or buying media. Media streamers are something I have recently become interested in, however, they must be on par with the rest of my system from both an audio and visual perspective.

My current system:

DIY Statement speakers (replaces Magnepan 1.6QR 5.1 system) http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=29968
Parasound 2205A amp (soon to be replaced by DIY 400W Hypex Monoblocks)
Velodyne DD18 sub
Lumagen Radiance video processor
JVC RS-1 projector
DTV HDDVR
Panasonic 35(?) Blu-ray
Toshiba HD DVD XA2
B&K Reference 70 (replaces highly modified EAD TheaterMaster)
PreDAC (successor to the TADAC) on order

I am interested in the PCH provided that it doesn't impact the video quality of my Lumagen which I have used to calibrate the gray scale and remap the color coordinate system for the JVC RS1 in addition to providing excellent video processing. I have no reason to believe that it would but the PCH is doing some video processing and I am not clear yet on what that is. I have seen a couple of threads questioning the audio quality (at least for MP3s - which I don't care about). However, the TADAC (and hopefully it's successor the PreDAC) has been noted for it's ability to take a poor transport and make it sound like a high end model. So in the end, I may just buy one of these bad boys and try it out. At the price point they are selling for, it doesn't seem like a huge risk.

Mike
post #6 of 59
Take a look at the Netgear EVA9150. It just came out. I just got one, but have been too busy working to fully test it yet. It does support menus on iso's of DVD video, plays m2ts and ts files (Blu-Ray rips), supposedly can bitrstream at least some higher bitrate audio format through HDMI, and the video output can be adjusted (black level, contrast, saturation, hue). It has built in networking (wired and wireless a,b,g,n) and multi-room functionality (if you have more than one unit).

The menu structructure is somewhate convoluted and confusing, but it seems to work well.
post #7 of 59
Thread Starter 
I don't want a mac. I am a PC guy and need something that I can put in the rack and access via a pronto 9800 in the living room

The popcorn seemed perfect, but I think it might be a little bit too low end for my equipment.
post #8 of 59
dayvo,

Thanks for that.

Farris,

Setting high expectations is what drives our hobby forward

Mike
post #9 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

I have read reviews of the popcorn hour and it seems to have mediocre sound quality and some smearing on HD movies.

So there is no kind of high end popcorn hour? Is there one available at any price point?

As I am spending about $50k on other equipment I want something really good quality.

Well, I'll vouch for the mediocre SQ...like I said, for the kind of audio you're looking for, I simply don't think you can go with a one-box solution. As far as video, the PCH might not offer absolutely perfect playback, but I think it's as good as any other streamer you're going to find. One thing you have to keep in mind with some of these reviews, is a streamer is very much a garbage-in, garbage-out kind of prospect. You don't know if the review you're reading is from some 17 year-old kid, who's compressing the hell out of a file, re-muxing, re-encoding, etc., etc. Like I said, straight .m2ts rip, no touching of the original file...my PCH looks fantastic on my Kuro...and I'm not someone who takes these things lightly either. Now, whether the PQ will hold up through my PJ, on the big stage and big screen, remains to be seen.

CD
post #10 of 59
I'd be real cautious about getting the Netgear product. A little reading about the two previous Netgear streamers would prove enlightening, and I speak from experience. They will abandon the hardware when it's half finished. Given that the 9150 is the same basic hardware as a PCH, this means that the performance won't be better, and oh yeah, Netgear is at least 6 months behind on firmware updates.

Jim L
post #11 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Well, I'll vouch for the mediocre SQ...like I said, for the kind of audio you're looking for, I simply don't think you can go with a one-box solution. As far as video, the PCH might not offer absolutely perfect playback, but I think it's as good as any other streamer you're going to find. One thing you have to keep in mind with some of these reviews, is a streamer is very much a garbage-in, garbage-out kind of prospect. You don't know if the review you're reading is from some 17 year-old kid, who's compressing the hell out of a file, re-muxing, re-encoding, etc., etc. Like I said, straight .m2ts rip, no touching of the original file...my PCH looks fantastic on my Kuro...and I'm not someone who takes these things lightly either. Now, whether the PQ will hold up through my PJ, on the big stage and big screen, remains to be seen.

CD

Please let me know how it looks on the PJ. I am going to be using it with a 50 inch pioneer and a JVC HD 750 on a 110" wide screen.

Have you heard of this: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/sp...3163&cl=gb,en#

Would I need this and a popcorn hour? Is it overkill?
post #12 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

I don't want a mac. I am a PC guy and need something that I can put in the rack and access via a pronto 9800 in the living room

The popcorn seemed perfect, but I think it might be a little bit too low end for my equipment.

Oh oh...
post #13 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

I don't want a mac. I am a PC guy and need something that I can put in the rack and access via a pronto 9800 in the living room

um, is there any special reason you wouldn't just load XP on the mini?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

The popcorn seemed perfect, but I think it might be a little bit too low end for my equipment.

well then the solution is simple...
Kaleidescape has a very nice 1080P player that will fit right in with your other equipment...
post #14 of 59
Another noobie question here, I do like the PCH but I have heard that you need to be pretty tech savvy to use it, which i am absoutely not. I have a company putting in a $25k system into my new house that is Control4 based.

Do you guys think a novice can run the PCH or do I need to be tech savvy. I just want to have my movies accessible fro mthe couch and I need some help putting them on whatever I need to put them on. Everything Ive read on the PCH seems very technical to me.

thanks for the help
post #15 of 59
Farris, as everyone else on the thread has pretty much suggested, the single box you are looking for does not exist. I was looking for the same system but ended up with three servers for multi-room audio and one for video.

For my audio, I have a transporter for my dedicated media room. For casual listening I use a PC with Xonar STX card and a digital out to a $400 DAC.

For video, I use a DVICO Tvix M-6500A which handles all the video formats I have thrown at it. I was contemplating getting a Netgear EVA9150 because it could go into my rack but since both boxes use the same chip, I decided to wait. I haven't encountered many problems with my M-6500A and use it quite extensively to watch videos of many different formats including ISO.
post #16 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

um, is there any special reason you wouldn't just load XP on the mini?

well then the solution is simple...
Kaleidescape has a very nice 1080P player that will fit right in with your other equipment...

Very Interesting!

May I ask a few questions please:

Kaleidescape:


- Will the Kaleidescape 1080p Player play both music and movies off the server?

- Will it only work with other Kaleidescape products such as the Kaleidescape server or can in work in conjunction with my own custom build server?

- Will it have the awesome Kaleidescape Interface similar to what I have seen before on the non 1080p models?

- What is the difference between this and the mini player (http://www.kaleidescape.com/products.../1080p-mini/)?

- Does it have 2 way communication with a philips pronto 9800?

Thanks for the help and the cool suggestion.
post #17 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePauper View Post

For my audio, I have a transporter for my dedicated media room. For casual listening I use a PC with Xonar STX card and a digital out to a $400 DAC.

Just curious, why not a Squeezebox SBR or Classic?

CD
post #18 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

Very Interesting!

May I ask a few questions please:

Kaleidescape:


- Will the Kaleidescape 1080p Player play both music and movies off the server?

- Will it only work with other Kaleidescape products such as the Kaleidescape server or can in work in conjunction with my own custom build server?

- Will it have the awesome Kaleidescape Interface similar to what I have seen before on the non 1080p models?

- What is the difference between this and the mini player (http://www.kaleidescape.com/products.../1080p-mini/)?

- Does it have 2 way communication with a philips pronto 9800?

Thanks for the help and the cool suggestion.

Just out of curiousity, what is it that has lead you to the conclusion that a Kaleidescape will have audio playback "as good as a Classe or Lyngdorf Cd Player"? Does it even stream FLAC??

CD
post #19 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

Very Interesting!

May I ask a few questions please:

you may ask, but I may not have the answers, as I do not have a Kaleidescape setup... its out of my price range...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

- Will the Kaleidescape 1080p Player play both music and movies off the server?

probably, but why would you want too? you will be much better off using a product that was meant for audio... like the K Music Player or the transporter...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

- Will it only work with other Kaleidescape products such as the Kaleidescape server or can in work in conjunction with my own custom build server?

the one big drawback with the ultra high end is that it is pro installed only, and I doubt a pro would even consider hooking it up to your custom server... (assuming it even could be... which I kind of doubt)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

- Will it have the awesome Kaleidescape Interface similar to what I have seen before on the non 1080p models?

yep


Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

- What is the difference between this and the mini player (http://www.kaleidescape.com/products.../1080p-mini/)?

mostly just size I think... does the mini even have the built in DVD drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

- Does it have 2 way communication with a philips pronto 9800?

its pro installed, it will have 2 way com with whatever you tell the installer to make it have 2 way com with... hence the $$,$$$ price tag...

just a couple of things to consider:
Big K is the only Legal way to stream DVD's, they are the only company that has a CSS license and all the other legal crap needed...
our Benevolent Media Overlords do not like that Big K is able to do this, so when HD DVD & Bluray came out, they made sure that loop hole was closed, so there are no legal ways to stream Bluray, and so Big K does not stream bluray...
post #20 of 59
Farris, CD,

This site is really out of control! I stopped coming here because of this kind of stuff. I picked today to see if maybe the situation had improved but it has not.

Where is a site moderator when you need one?
post #21 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Agreed. Good luck with your set-up.

CD

CD,

Can you please delete the posts relating to our bickering session, as I have. It would really help get this thread back on track.
post #22 of 59
In case anyone's still reading this thread for any reason beside entertainment value of the mudslinging...the OP might look into the ReQuest line.

Above the original budget, but less so than the kaleidescape. AFAIK, neither does blu-ray at the present time (could be wrong, my wife says I always am).

Just a suggestion, no flames please.
post #23 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Just out of curiousity, what is it that has lead you to the conclusion that a Kaleidescape will have audio playback "as good as a Classe or Lyngdorf Cd Player"? Does it even stream FLAC??

CD

It has become clear that the Kaleidescape won't cut it for the following reasons:

- Won't stream blu ray rips
- Can't stream FLACs without another Kaleidescape Module
- It still probably won't be as good for audio as the Transporter you pointed out
- Probably won't work with my own custom built media server.
post #24 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

CD,

Can you please delete the posts relating to our bickering session, as I have. It would really help get this thread back on track.

Done. Should I leave a pic of the Saleen up; after all, everyone can appreciate a fine automobile.



CD
post #25 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

It has become clear that the Kaleidescape won't cut it for the following reasons:

- Won't stream blu ray rips
- Can't stream FLACs without another Kaleidescape Module
- It still probably won't be as good for audio as the Transporter you pointed out
- Probably won't work with my own custom built media server.

Seriously, if you can afford it...here's what you want http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/d...-dac?cat=audio



or in combination with this http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/d...port?cat=audio. The Transporter is no slouch, but PSA chief Paul McGowan is a digital streaming nut, and I think these units are really going to represent the current start-of-the-art, and best the Transporter by a bit.

CD
post #26 of 59
Thread Starter 
Please correct me if I am wrong.

It seems that the popcorn hour is the only hardware option currently available, except for a computer, that can stream and play video and audio.

As all my hardware is rack mounted in a closet, I need something that has an interface on my TV or on my Pronto 9800.


May I ask the following questions:


Whould it be better to go with custom built PC or Mac (someone mentioned earlier in this thread) and something like Windows Media Center with the My Movies add on (http://www.mymovies.dk/screenshots.aspx) to do the streaming and playback than a Popcorn Hour?

If so can someone recommend some good components for this purpose please?

Can someone also please let me know if there is better software available for this purpose than Media Center with My Movies?

I would really be interested in the pros and cons of the PC vs Popcorn Hour.

THANKS GUYS!
post #27 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Seriously, if you can afford it...here's what you want http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/d...-dac?cat=audio



or in combination with this http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/d...port?cat=audio. The Transporter is no slouch, but PSA chief Paul McGowan is a digital streaming nut, and I think these units are really going to represent the current start-of-the-art, and best the Transporter by a bit.

CD

Wow... This DAC is sweet! Are there any special deals available on this? Anyone know where one can buy an ex-demo?

Once I buy the tvs, projectors, amps, speakers... My budget is getting tight and this will probably need to be an upgrade later on (unless a great deal is available).

CD and Others,

May I ask for some advice:


The gear I am likely going to buy is as follows:

Video:
JVC HD750

Pioneer 6090 x2


Audio:
- Lyngdorf TDAI 2200
- Lyngdorf SDA-2175
- Lyngdorf DP-1 Speakers (Front Left and Right)
- Lyngdorf W-210 Subs x 2 (Music)
- Onkyo 906 for Center, Surrounds and Sub (Lyngdorf Subs don't go deep enough for movies but kick ass for music IMHO).
- Sunfire XT Series Center and Dipole Surrounds
- 1 Sunfire True Signature EQ sub (Movies and Games)[/i][/b]


I have about $4k left in my budget to purchase anything else I might need

Do you think a DAC like the the Perfect Wave would be necessary to do justice to my equipment? Would a Transporter be sufficient?

Is the Onkyo outclassed by the rest of the gear for what it is doing? If so what would you recommend I substitute it with (please keep in mind the budget is tapping out)?

Would you recommend any changes to my equipment and are there any other pieces of kit that would really help enhance what I am buying?

Based on the above equipment, what is the ideal candidate for a music and video player (seperate components, pc or single peice of kit)? I realize this might be a repetative question, but I thought it might change after reviewing my kit.
- The player/players need to have a TV or Pronto 9800 interface

I hope the above isn't repetative and I appreicate your help
post #28 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

It seems that the popcorn hour is the only hardware option currently available, except for a computer, that can stream and play video and audio.

well that's just not true... there are tons of options, the only issue is why??? the 'perfect' video will probably have marginal audio usability at best, they are very different things... for video you really need your TV/Projector/whatever turned on, but for audio, having the display on is distracting at best... for audio having a the ability to create and manage a play list is vital, but for video its a non issue really... its all a question of using the correct tool for the job... just curious, why do so many people just want to use one really big hammer for everything?

anyway, Vidabox looks like they have some cool toys... may be worth looking into...

Sages HD theater
thing is cool to, and it can be a PVR also... but while it can do audio, I wouldn't use it for that... its just not the right tool...
post #29 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

well that's just not true... there are tons of options, the only issue is why??? the 'perfect' video will probably have marginal audio usability at best, they are very different things... for video you really need your TV/Projector/whatever turned on, but for audio, having the display on is distracting at best... for audio having a the ability to create and manage a play list is vital, but for video its a non issue really... its all a question of using the correct tool for the job... just curious, why do so many people just want to use one really big hammer for everything?

anyway, Vidabox looks like they have some cool toys... may be worth looking into...

Sages HD theater
thing is cool to, and it can be a PVR also... but while it can do audio, I wouldn't use it for that... its just not the right tool...

How would I be able to see and select my music with a Transporter in the rack well away from my living/cinema room?

I was looking for an all in one video and audio solution because these tend to use a TV or Pronto 9800 as a display/selection device.

I am certainly not against having seperate pieces of kit for audio and video, as long as I can keep them rack mounted and access them in rooms well away fromt he rack.
post #30 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by farris View Post

wow... This dac is sweet! Are there any special deals available on this? Anyone know where one can buy an ex-demo?

These are as new as it gets; i wouldn't expect any deals or demos yet.

once i buy the tvs, projectors, amps, speakers... My budget is getting tight and this will probably need to be an upgrade later on (unless a great deal is available).

cd and others,

may i ask for some advice:

the gear i am likely going to buy is as follows:

video:
jvc hd750

pioneer 6090 x2


audio:
- lyngdorf tdai 2200
- lyngdorf sda-2175
- lyngdorf dp-1 speakers (front left and right)
- lyngdorf w-210 subs x 2 (music)
- onkyo 906 for center, surrounds and sub (lyngdorf subs don't go deep enough for movies but kick ass for music imho).
- sunfire xt series center and dipole surrounds
- 1 sunfire true signature eq sub (movies and games)[/i][/b]


i have about $4k left in my budget to purchase anything else i might need

do you think a dac like the the perfect wave would be necessary to do justice to my equipment? Would a transporter be sufficient?



is the onkyo outclassed by the rest of the gear for what it is doing? If so what would you recommend i substitute it with (please keep in mind the budget is tapping out)?

would you recommend any changes to my equipment and are there any other pieces of kit that would really help enhance what i am buying?

based on the above equipment, what is the ideal candidate for a music and video player (seperate components, pc or single peice of kit)? I realize this might be a repetative question, but i thought it might change after reviewing my kit.
- the player/players need to have a tv or pronto 9800 interface

i hope the above isn't repetative and i appreicate your help

The PW DAC is as new as it gets; I wouldn't expect any deals or demos yet. If you want to spend $1500 instead of $3k, the Transporter is more than fine. Are you planning to use the Onkyo 905 as Pre/Pro and amplification of 5 channels, Center and 4 Surrounds? If so, yes, I'd say this will be the weak spot in your system. OTOH, if you're mostly about music and HT is an after-thought then you might be fine.

As has been said several time, and I know it's not what anyone wants to hear, but there really isn't ONE box that does everything, and does everything "the best". The best streamers for music are a Squeezebox or Sonos Receiver, run through an external DAC if you're really going for very, very revealing, high-level audio...or a Transporter, and none of them do video.

As for video, I know it's hard to believe the $215 PCH can represent the best streamer right now, but I think the PQ is great...provided you know what you're doing; it's a garbage-in, garbage-out kind of device. I mean, are you into ripping BD, and up on all your HD Audio codecs and stuff...or does the Ferrari keep you too busy for all that nonsense. If so, PCH probably isn't for you...and that's probably where you get all that "the PCH is no good" talk...from those who don't know how to use it, or thought they would plug it in and press play like a DVD player.

Hope that helps,
CD
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