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Pioneer BDP-320/BDP-23FD Owner's Thread - Page 11

post #301 of 6328
5/16/09 at 5:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Believe it can, but tell me an audio track that has the 192khz encoding and i will give it a whirl. pretty sure i have a number of players that can do this including the lg bh200 that actually lets you choose what you want to output.

Could you please try 'Akira'?
It has 192 kHz / 24-bit audio. Thanks!
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post #302 of 6328
5/16/09 at 5:44am
"sd dvd upscaling is somewhat of a touchy subject to him...."

Too bad you read but don't seem to bother to comprehend. The issue is a little credibility in terms of comparing performance AND not having to bash one product to make another look good.

Do any of you have a problem with either of those principles? If so please let me know which one of you doesn't care about credibility/accuracy or which one of you feels it is appropriate and illuminating to bash any particular product to make your product look good.

Please. No really, please let me know which one of you feels the need to misrepresent products or bash other products. It helps me sort through which posts I don't need to read rather quickly.
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post #303 of 6328
5/16/09 at 7:11am
Thread Starter 
Since I inadvertantly kicked off this esoteric debate with some rather salacious semantics - notably 'crush' - i will address the difficulty in relative comparisons and descriptions of things as subjective at times as upscaling. Seemingly objective test disks like AVIA and S&M offer reasonably objective pass/fail tests for players, but most of us really care about end use - how does a movie look. Race cars and waving flag tests are great for a cnet to provide a quick reference, but they do not provide any real measure of detail reproduction and clarity of the realworld usage of good and bad transfers. As readersof this forum, we have to listen to numerous "opinions" time and time again and filter through what offers the best information even if it is at times seen through rose tinted lenses.

In regard to the Panasonic DMP BD55K and the Pioneer BDP-320, they are both great players. I think very highly of Panasonic and it is usually the brand i recommend to friends and family as offering tremendous value, strong featureset, and reliability. Once again in my opinion. the 55 does an admirable job at sd dvd upscaling, but suffers in deinterlacing and introduces noticeable jaggies. The Pioneer offers more detail and avoids creating jaggies while deinterlacing. I am not disparaging the Panasonic - it is a great player, but it has been my experience the difference is rather noticeable, particulary on a set larger than 46" or so.
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post #304 of 6328
5/16/09 at 7:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheedoe View Post

Could you please try 'Akira'?
It has 192 kHz / 24-bit audio. Thanks!

Got another? don't have that and netflix would take a while
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post #305 of 6328
5/16/09 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Got another? don't have that and netflix would take a while

How about Dave Matthews? It has 24/96 kHz Dolby TrueHD encoding.
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post #306 of 6328
5/16/09 at 11:37am
Hi I was reading this thread and wondered how much better and what features the Pioneer 320 has over a Samsung 3600? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have a 46A650 Samsung LCD TV now that I would be hooking my first ever Blue-ray disc player to and I want to make sure I get a quality player that won't be obsolete in a year.
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post #307 of 6328
5/16/09 at 11:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheedoe View Post

How about Dave Matthews? It has 24/96 kHz Dolby TrueHD encoding.

any recent films?
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post #308 of 6328
5/16/09 at 11:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphins1lrb View Post

Hi I was reading this thread and wondered how much better and what features the Pioneer 320 has over a Samsung 3600? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have a 46A650 Samsung LCD TV now that I would be hooking my first ever Blue-ray disc player to and I want to make sure I get a quality player that won't be obsolete in a year.

I have not tested a 3600, but the three biggest changes over the 2550 (which I have) are: faster load times, wireless dongle, and drop of the reon chip. The last is disappointing - the 2500 was an excellent upconverter and probably about as good as the 320. The faster load times is a plus as is the wirelesss connection. I would guess (based upon my experience with the 2550) the dacs are better in the pioneer. If you're just using a player and tv set up, that is really irrelevant. The 3600 has great gimmicks in that it can stream netflix and pandora. The Pioneer is slghtly less expensive I believe at current amazon price.

In regards to obsolence, both have the ability to decode the hd audio codecs and are profile 2.0. I would think both would serve you well, but you need to weigh PQ and AQ relative to featureset (netflix/wireless).
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post #309 of 6328
5/16/09 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

any recent films?

Haven't come across one yet. I'd appreciate if you can rent one of the two blu-ray discs and get back with the result after a few days.
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post #310 of 6328
5/16/09 at 2:11pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaggies

Never seen a one on my Samsung 61 inch LED RPTV and by BD55 using SD-DVD. Same is true for my Pioneer DV-610 and sd-dvd and my Samsung 61 inch LED RPTV. Do you have a sd-dvd that you use that shows them clearly on your monitor Winston?

"'Jaggies' is the informal name for artifacts in raster images, most frequently from aliasing,[1] which in turn is often caused by non-linear mixing effects producing high-frequency components and/or missing or poor anti-aliasing filtering prior to sampling.

Jaggies are stairlike lines that appear where there should be smooth straight lines or curves. They can occur for a variety of reasons, the most common being that the output device (display monitor or printer) does not have enough resolution to portray a smooth line. In addition, jaggies often occur when a bit-mapped image is converted to a different resolution. This is one of the advantages that vector graphics has over bit-mapped graphics — the output looks the same regardless of the resolution of the output device. The effect of jaggies can be reduced somewhat by a graphics technique known as anti-aliasing. Anti-aliasing smooths out jagged lines by surrounding the jaggies with shaded pixels. This can be done in a computer or in a printer."
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post #311 of 6328
5/16/09 at 2:17pm
This from a reviewer of the BD60.

"There is a staggering amount of details added to the pictures, courtesy, P4HD. The clarity of each picture is astonishing. You will not be able to find even the slightest of a jaggie. The excellency of the dark scenes are obtained with the excellent contrast range which retains the visibility of the darkness."
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post #312 of 6328
5/16/09 at 2:25pm
So in setting up a straw man, as in this unit sucks so this new one is better, some facts need to be provided in demonstrating the "sucks" piece so that its not all straw man opinion.

If in fact the sd-dvd playback of the Panasonics was so crappy the Pioneer is by far and away superior, fine. Show me. I and apparently others have seen nothing to complain about. With the BD30/BD50, you bet. SD-DVD barely average and quite a head scratcher given Panasonic's sd-dvd players doing so well in general. What happened with the BD30/50? Not so with the 35 up to today's products however.

Somehow its not enough to let the Pioneer stand on its own?

How come?

Can't make one product look better with out unnecessarily bashing another? How come?

I read this site to find out how products perform. Setting up straw men tells me nothing. Does that process actually tell you practical information Winton? I mean really, does it tell you anything worthwhile?

Yet as many have implied soemthing is wrong with me for challenging that kind of post. Ok, its me. I'm goofed for wanting to spend time here and actually read something that has some kind of value.
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post #313 of 6328
5/16/09 at 4:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaggies

Never seen a one on my Samsung 61 inch LED RPTV and by BD55 using SD-DVD. Same is true for my Pioneer DV-610 and sd-dvd and my Samsung 61 inch LED RPTV. Do you have a sd-dvd that you use that shows them clearly on your monitor Winston?

"'Jaggies' is the informal name for artifacts in raster images, most frequently from aliasing,[1] which in turn is often caused by non-linear mixing effects producing high-frequency components and/or missing or poor anti-aliasing filtering prior to sampling.

Jaggies are stairlike lines that appear where there should be smooth straight lines or curves. They can occur for a variety of reasons, the most common being that the output device (display monitor or printer) does not have enough resolution to portray a smooth line. In addition, jaggies often occur when a bit-mapped image is converted to a different resolution. This is one of the advantages that vector graphics has over bit-mapped graphics the output looks the same regardless of the resolution of the output device. The effect of jaggies can be reduced somewhat by a graphics technique known as anti-aliasing. Anti-aliasing smooths out jagged lines by surrounding the jaggies with shaded pixels. This can be done in a computer or in a printer."

Zack and Miri make a porno sd dvd had a lot of jaggies. I appreciate your zeal for the Panasonic 55, but there is a thread dedicated to the 35/55 and I am sure your input would be appreciated. Let's get back to the Pioneer 320 or 23.

Anyone get a 23 yet?
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post #314 of 6328
5/16/09 at 4:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheedoe View Post

Haven't come across one yet. I'd appreciate if you can rent one of the two blu-ray discs and get back with the result after a few days.

will add it to my netflix queue
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post #315 of 6328
5/16/09 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

will add it to my netflix queue

Thanks!
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post #316 of 6328
5/16/09 at 7:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheedoe View Post

A quote from the oppo bdp-83 review @ enjoythemusic.com
"The most amazing attribute of this unit is its ability to transmit full 24-bit/192kHz7.1 channel bitstreams from both video and audio Blu-ray discs to my Integra pre-pro for decoding. My Samsung player and my home theater computer downsample them to 48 kHz. before transmission, and the difference in audio "you are there" feel is significant. An especially good discs to evaluate this is Trondheim Solisten Divertimenti (reviewed here). The box contains both an SACD and a Blu-ray copy of the music, with the Blu-ray having tracks of 24-bit/192kHz PCM, DTS Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD encoding in both surround and stereo. Using my Samsung BDP-UP5000 to the Integra, the 24-bit/192kHz signals were downsampled to 24-bit/48kHz and I had previously thought that it was the pre-pro that was the problem. Now I know that my pre-pro can receive the full 24-bit/192kHzsurround encoding and decode it, and I find these now so close to the SACD original as to be impossible to differentiate on my system."

My question is can the 320 bitstream full 24-bit/192 kHz 7.1 channel, or does it downsample like the samsung?

Edit: Nevermind, 24 bit/192 kHz is probably only available in SACD, but the 320 can't play that.

FYI - just checked the stats on the 51FD and it has DACs that can process up to 24bit/192khz.
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post #317 of 6328
5/16/09 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Zack and Miri make a porno sd dvd had a lot of jaggies. I appreciate your zeal for the Panasonic 55, but there is a thread dedicated to the 35/55 and I am sure your input would be appreciated. Let's get back to the Pioneer 320 or 23.

Anyone get a 23 yet?


I told you not to get him started bro
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post #318 of 6328
5/16/09 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

FYI - just checked the stats on the 51FD and it has DACs that can process up to 24bit/192khz.

Good to know. I guess this means there's a good chance that the 320 have the capability also. Thanks.
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post #319 of 6328
5/17/09 at 3:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaggies


"'Jaggies' is the informal name for artifacts in raster images, most frequently from aliasing,[1] which in turn is often caused by non-linear mixing effects producing high-frequency components and/or missing or poor anti-aliasing filtering prior to sampling.

I've seen artifacts produced on "Linear" editing systems as well. Most artifacts come from poor upscaling and deinterlacing.

CD
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post #320 of 6328
5/17/09 at 3:36am
can anyone confirm if the BDP-320 can play dvd or bluray titles form other regions?ie is it multi format out of the box?
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post #321 of 6328
5/18/09 at 5:09am
Is it fair to say that the only differances between the 320 and 51 are the addition of profile 2.0 in a smaller chassis.. Is the boot up time, and SD layer change still slow/same between the two?
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post #322 of 6328
5/18/09 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound & Vision View Post

Is it fair to say that the only differances between the 320 and 51 are the addition of profile 2.0 in a smaller chassis.. Is the boot up time, and SD layer change still slow/same between the two?

The 320 also supports DTS HD MA, and this is said to have been easier to impliment on the 320 do to it having a larger ROM for the FW to reside in.

Otherwise, layer change and boot times are the same.
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post #323 of 6328
5/18/09 at 5:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidicarus View Post

can anyone confirm if the BDP-320 can play dvd or bluray titles form other regions?ie is it multi format out of the box?

I haven't confirmed but there is no reason to believe the 320 can play anything other then DVD-1 and BD-A. These are the only regions it says it will play. (Well, other than region free or all region discs)
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post #324 of 6328
5/18/09 at 7:13am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheedoe View Post

Thanks!

don't you have a 320 by the way?
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post #325 of 6328
5/18/09 at 7:45am
Yes, but unfortunately I dont have a netflix account .
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post #326 of 6328
5/18/09 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearguy77 View Post

The 320 also supports DTS HD MA, and this is said to have been easier to impliment on the 320 do to it having a larger ROM for the FW to reside in.

Otherwise, layer change and boot times are the same.

So the 320 also offers a larger ROM size for its firmware over the 51.. How much larger is it? The 320 just arrived at my local Bestbuy store.. There currently selling them for $399.99.
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post #327 of 6328
5/18/09 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound & Vision View Post

So the 320 also offers a larger ROM size for its firmware over the 51.. How much larger is it? The 320 just arrived at my local Bestbuy store.. There currently selling them for $399.99.

I have no idea. The larger ROM was mentioned by walkamo, IIRC. It was stated that the smaller ROM on the 05/51 was making the DTS HD MA firmware update difficult.
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post #328 of 6328
5/18/09 at 8:22am
Check out vanns, just bought one for $350 they are a authorized dealer free shipping no tax hope that helps, can not wait to get my in it will be my first bluray thank you Winston for starting up this forum alot of good info and I am sure I will have some questions that you can help me with....

Thanks ciccio
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post #329 of 6328
5/18/09 at 8:25am
I added the 320 to my system a couple of weeks ago. I already had a Tosh A-35 that did an excellent job on upconversion, but the 320 looks better. I haven't tested discs through the layer change, but I will say that the Blockbuster Blu-Rays that I have rented so far have played without a hitch -- except a filthy one that wouldn't play at all until I cleaned it. Then it played perfectly. When rental HD-DVDs were available I always had problems playing them, and even after cleaning they would freeze up. I'm very happy with the 320 but I don't require speedier boot time. I can always use the A-35 for SD-DVD playback if the change gets to be a problem. I considered the Oppo, but the price difference was too steep for me (that's me not anyone else), so I think the 320 was the right choice. I am fully HDMI and have no SACD or DVD-A's in my collection. I also have not experienced the heating issue even though the unit is in a closed cabinet (albeit on its own shelf). I can't say enough about the AQ and PQ of blu-rays -- and that's what I bought it for.
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post #330 of 6328
5/18/09 at 8:29am
any 23's out in the wild yet? just curious how it performs.
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