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Pioneer BDP-320/BDP-23FD Owner's Thread - Page 208

post #6211 of 6384
-n my previous life I used to align laser head as a living (this is when CD burners cost $10K), even the tiniest misalignment can result in errors in following the tracking (aptly named "track following error"). From your description, it seems like the laser-mech has TFE problem. Coupled that with the cheapening of dual-layer blu-ray manufacturing, it is likely you'll need to change the laser mech (if it's still under warranty -- nobody aligns consumer-level laser heads).

If it's not under warranty, it'll cost you around $150 to $200 in parts and labour (I can change a laser mech and flash its internal firmware within 30 minutes, so actual techs can do it faster).

I'd rather forget about the older machine and just get a new one.

Another thing I dislike from the BDT-500 is the 2D to 3D conversion. It's one of the least realistic in my limited experience. I personally use KanexPro 2D to 3D converter.
post #6212 of 6384
So if I were to get rid of my Pioneer BDP-320 to go with a newer unit such as the elite series which one would I upgrade to without the 3D. As far as I am concerned 3D will go the way of "Betamax"!
post #6213 of 6384
I'd go with BDP-62FD. That's my ONLY choice for the best price vs performance ratio.
post #6214 of 6384
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I'd go with BDP-62FD. That's my ONLY choice for the best price vs performance ratio.

Thanks. But I don't a want 3D player.
post #6215 of 6384
It's not like you have to use the 3D capability. Any decent player these days will be a 3D player too
post #6216 of 6384
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX_Rocky View Post

Well, perhaps I can one-up you? Though not a blu-ray player, I had bought the Sony S7000 DVD player when DVD first came out. It cost some $$$ too, and for eons after, it was still being used as the benchmark for all DVD players to be compared to. And boy, was it a killer unit! That mechanical door that opened to insert the disk, I'd just open and close it to watch in amazement, haha. Eventually though, it too began to have problems playing newer made store bought DVD disks. I still have it too!
But in regards to you get what you pay for? I bought the 23FD, which is an ELITE model. All ELITE equipment has the longer warranties - due to the higher standard components supposedly being used, and thus should have a longer use life. I used to have both the 56 and 59 Elite DVD player (one of the earliest HDMI players too!) and receiver, and ages later they were still working! Sold on eBay for a good price yet too! If not for BD being better, and needing a receiver that had HDMI ports, I'd have still been using them.
If you look back, *I* was the first to start posting about new BD movies not playing any longer in the 23FD, with the cannot read disk error. Back then, most thought I was nuts, but now it is seen I was correct. And so sadly, I had to put the unit away, and began to use my PS3 as my disk player. Occasionally using my old Toshiba A35 HD DVD player for its better upscaling of regular DVD movies. What a waste that felt like, cause I did love the 23!
The other night, I brought the 23 out of mothballs again to try it out. It. Using all store bought (Best Buy) BD movies:
It played Expendibles 2! I was excited, perhaps it was working again?
But then it failed with
The Avengers
Prometheus
Battleship
So on a whim, I went to Best Buy yesterday, mostly out of frustration. They had the latest Elite 3D BD players on sale, the 52 and the 62. Next to them was the Panasonic BDT500, and for near $100 less. I so wanted to go Pioneer, to better match with my SC05 receiver! But being now burnt by the 23, I bought the Panasonic instead. I still keep thinking about the newer 62, but then I look at the 23 now gathering dust again. Still I was tempted, as my experience with the QDEO upscaling chip in an early dual HD/BD LG player was quite impressive. But do I want to get burned again? No!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX_Rocky View Post

Yes, that Sony was just as much a "work of art" to look at, as it was a fantastic DVD player to watch. And even today, most players don't even have half the options to tinker with.
As for the 23, it sadly will not play 90% of the latest BD movies. Even has the latest (and perhaps last ever???) firmware update installed. As I said, was tempted to get the newer 62, but went with the Panasonic BDT500 instead. And so far, I am impressed.
Perhaps soon, I may place the 23 on eBay.

Like was mentioned, I think there's something wrong with your 23. I've not had such issues with my 320 with the current firmware v3.73 (uses same firmware and SoC as the 23). While I don't have Prometheus (it's on my Netflix list) or Battleship, I was recently given The Avengers as a gift (haven't watched it yet). As a test I popped it in my 320 and it is playing fine as I type this.

Personally, I don't think it would be worth the expense to have your 23 repaired unless it's still under warranty.
Edited by Saturn94 - 11/25/12 at 4:35pm
post #6217 of 6384
I'll sell you my perfectly working BDP-23 (due to the kindness of Pioneer they replaced my laser mech just before my warranty ended back in July 2012) but the shipping may be insanely high from Canada to US
post #6218 of 6384
Questions regarding 'Source Direct' from the Pio 23FD bd player and the processing of my Kuro 151 for bluray 1080p/24 material.

I want my Kuro to do the processing in it's Film Mode to give a cinematic PQ. But I read that 'Source Direct' isn't what it claims to be. For example this quote is from a member at AVForum below:
Quote:
Oppo uses confusing "marketing speak" to describe source direct -

Oppo claim: "The original audio/video content on the discs is sent out with no additional processing or alteration."

This is not accurate for video because the player is required to alter the content i.e. what is output from the player is in a different video format to native Blu-ray content. There's no "bitstream" option for video.

The player HDMI settings will determine key aspects of output such as bitstream v LPCM audio, colour space, Deep Colour etc irrespective of Source Direct mode being selected. It's possible to set Source Direct as the output resolution and still have the player convert/unsample to RGB colour space, interpolate to 12 bit per pixel HDMI Deep Colour and internally decode lossless HD codecs to LPCM.


I would assume Source Direct on the Pio is the same as Source Direct on the Oppo or any other bd player that has that option. If I set my Pio 23FD to 'Source Direct' and I also have the bd player set to HDMI High Speed, 36 bit Deep Color, Video Adjust-Memory 1.......is it still 'Source Direct' then and is the bd player sending the original content off the disc straight through to the Kuro to process and is the Kuro detecting a true 'Source Direct' for it's Film Mode-Advance to convert to 1080p/72? Or should I turn off the bd player's Deep Color Support, HDMI High Speed and set the bd player to Video Adjust - PDF to sync up more purely with the Kuro?

For DVD content, which do you think produces the best PQ for where the bd player output should be set at?
Edited by oppopioneer - 11/25/12 at 8:05pm
post #6219 of 6384
Source direct only relates to resolution and frame rate. Clourspace, etc are independent of source direct mode.

I always set settings to "professional" for the least amount of mucking-about done by the video processor, turn Deep Colour off since there is no deep-colour software anyway, but set the colourspace to RGB 16-235 with colour depth to 36-bit to minimize colour banding.
post #6220 of 6384
PS: yes, Oppo marketing speak is faulty, the decoding is done within the player and just like Pioneer it only relates to resolution and framerate. Any signal WILL have to be "touched" by the video decoder and converted to (say) 24-bit colour, 4:2:2 colourspace.
post #6221 of 6384
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Source direct only relates to resolution and frame rate. Clourspace, etc are independent of source direct mode.
I always set settings to "professional" for the least amount of mucking-about done by the video processor, turn Deep Colour off since there is no deep-colour software anyway, but set the colourspace to RGB 16-235 with colour depth to 36-bit to minimize colour banding.

I was told earlier in this thread that I should set my 23FD's Video Adjust to Memory 1, white bar back one notch for my Kuro 151FD. Do you have a Kuro 151FD that you're using of a different tv? What are the differenes between Professional vs Memory1 and which works better with the Kuro's Film Mode Advance for bluray 1080p/24 and offers a more true cinematic PQ? I always leave my 23FD set to 'Source Direct'. Didn't one of the ISF Calibrators (D Nice) say that Memory 1 is superior to Professional for the Kuro 151FD?
post #6222 of 6384
I used to have the PRO 101 TV and although professional gives slight edge enhancement and white crush, for my bedroom viewing (50" Tv from 14ft away) I preferto use Professional than Memory one with a tweak.

PS: I calibrate my TV based on the Professional setting on the BDP-23.

Now by BDP-23 with a brand new laser mech (courtesy of Pioneer service cemtre) is just ssitting pretty in its original box as a PAL disc backup playe just in case my BDP-62 needs to go for servicing.
post #6223 of 6384
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I used to have the PRO 101 TV and although professional gives slight edge enhancement and white crush, for my bedroom viewing (50" Tv from 14ft away) I preferto use Professional than Memory one with a tweak.
PS: I calibrate my TV based on the Professional setting on the BDP-23.
Now by BDP-23 with a brand new laser mech (courtesy of Pioneer service cemtre) is just ssitting pretty in its original box as a PAL disc backup playe just in case my BDP-62 needs to go for servicing.

So ISF calibrators like D Nice would prefer setting the 23FD to 'Source Direct' and Memory 1 for 1080p/24 film for the 151FD's Film Mode Advance to eliminate or reduce white crush? I just want to see and know if I'm getting the true original untouched content from the bluray disc to the Kuro that the director intended for a true cinematic PQ.


With regads to DVD viewing. I think the 23FD does a good job at playing dvd film based material. I use 'Source Direct' for dvd and looks very cinematic in letterbox films. But, my big concern and complaint is with dvd video based material like sports on dvd's that are in full screen. For example NTSC DVD video looks bad. It looks like a VHS tape that was made as a copy by an amatuer, like this dvd here - http://www.dukevideousa.com/World-Superbike-Review-2009-2-Disc-NTSC-DVD.aspx

Do you know what the proper settings for the 23FD and Kuro 151FD should be set at for NTSC DVD video based material?
post #6224 of 6384
Quite honestly even as an ISF and THX calibrator, I tend to use professional because the viewing distance tend to be too far to notice the edge enhancements and from afar it looks sharper that way for my clients.

Only when using projector at THX or SMPTE viewing distance I use the custom mode.

As far as DVD, i don't really like the upscaling on the displays so I change the BDP-23 output to 1080p and let the player do the upscaling.
post #6225 of 6384
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Source direct only relates to resolution and frame rate. Clourspace, etc are independent of source direct mode.
I always set settings to "professional" for the least amount of mucking-about done by the video processor, turn Deep Colour off since there is no deep-colour software anyway, but set the colourspace to RGB 16-235 with colour depth to 36-bit to minimize colour banding.

I just checked my 23FD's settings and it's set to: "HDMI Color Space-Auto". I believe I read that 'Auto' in Color Space allows the Kuro to choose which is best? Could you explain what are the differences between Auto, RGB 16-325 and 4:2:2 and which is best for PQ for the 23FD and Kuro 151FD combo? Thanks
post #6226 of 6384
No, auto means it will take anything that's being sent into it. Finally, internally, everything is converted back to RGB 16-235 for video or RGB 0-255 for PC.

Bluray and DVDs are encoded with 4:2:2. So if you want it to be as pure as possible going to your TV, set the player to 4:2:2, then set the TV to auto. However, with lesser quality display such as my rinki-dink Toshiba pile-o-crud, I set the player to RGB 16-235 so the TV no longer need to do the 4:2:2 to RGB 16-235 conversion.

Honestly I don't understand why the movies are encoded in 4:2:2 when the displays, any display, need to convert it to RGB anyway (other than for disc space savings)
post #6227 of 6384
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

No, auto means it will take anything that's being sent into it. Finally, internally, everything is converted back to RGB 16-235 for video or RGB 0-255 for PC.
Bluray and DVDs are encoded with 4:2:2. So if you want it to be as pure as possible going to your TV, set the player to 4:2:2, then set the TV to auto. However, with lesser quality display such as my rinki-dink Toshiba pile-o-crud, I set the player to RGB 16-235 so the TV no longer need to do the 4:2:2 to RGB 16-235 conversion.
Honestly I don't understand why the movies are encoded in 4:2:2 when the displays, any display, need to convert it to RGB anyway (other than for disc space savings)

Ok thanks.

I don't think my Kuro 151FD has 'Auto' in it.

This is a review and description of the 320/23FD bd player 'color space' option at HomeTheater.com below:

http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-bdp-320-blu-ray-player
Quote:
The player offers a variety of HDMI color-space options, including Auto, Y/Cb/Cr 4:4:4, Y/Cb/Cr 4:2:2, and two RGB outputs, as well as HDMI audio options for internal decoding or bitstream. Video output resolutions over HDMI include 480i, 480p, 1080i, and 1080p (24 and 60 frames per second). It also includes Source Direct mode, which outputs signals as encoded on the disc with no video processing applied. This is a great option if you have an outboard scaler. The Auto setting uses the extended display identification (EDID) information from your display and outputs the highest supported resolution. The component output supports 480i/p and 1080i/60. The Pioneer is the only one of the three players here that lets you change the player’s output resolution on the fly, while a disc is playing. With the others, you must stop the disc and make the change in an onscreen menu.

So with my 23FD hooked up to my Kuro 151FD, setting the bd player to color space-Auto will allow the 151FD to choose the best option right? The Kuro 151FD can go up to 36 bit, and says it when I press the Kuro's information button to show the tv's HDMI settings while the bd player is on playing a disc.
Edited by oppopioneer - 11/27/12 at 9:50pm
post #6228 of 6384
Hi,
I bought Celebration Day from Led Zep and it won't play on my 320. It play's on my PS3.
Does anyone have the same problem?
Is there a new firmwire comming soon?
post #6229 of 6384
Quote:
Originally Posted by berty52 View Post

Hi,
I bought Celebration Day from Led Zep and it won't play on my 320. It play's on my PS3.
Does anyone have the same problem?
Is there a new firmwire comming soon?

There hasn't been a firmware update in many months. I suspect that we've seen the last one we're going to get.
post #6230 of 6384
Quote:
Originally Posted by berty52 View Post

Hi,
I bought Celebration Day from Led Zep and it won't play on my 320. It play's on my PS3.
Does anyone have the same problem?
Is there a new firmwire comming soon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

There hasn't been a firmware update in many months. I suspect that we've seen the last one we're going to get.

This is the challenge with Pioneer. They wait for several discs to have playback issues before they contemplate putting out a new firmware.biggrin.gif For this reason I maintain 3 transports in my main setup. I figure one of them will play the disc.smile.gif
post #6231 of 6384
^^
I have the Pio 320 and a Samsung BD player. One or the other has played every nonscratched BD I've had.
post #6232 of 6384
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

This is the challenge with Pioneer. They wait for several discs to have playback issues before they contemplate putting out a new firmware.biggrin.gif For this reason I maintain 3 transports in my main setup. I figure one of them will play the disc.smile.gif

I have a 320 and a PS3 in my main set-up. The PS3 is 'guaranteed' to play any BD mad.gifeek.gif
post #6233 of 6384
Where should these settings be on my Pio Elite 23FD bluray player connected to my Kuro PRO-151FD pasma?

Video out - TV Aspect Ratio = 16:9 (Widescrean) or 4:3 Standard?
4:3 Video Out - Full or Normal?

HDMI High speed Transmission?
HDMI Color Space?
HDMI Audio Out?
Kuro Link?

Playback - Still Picture - Field or Frame or Auto?
Angle Secondary Indictator - On or Off?
Hybrid disc playback - BD or DVD or CD?
BDMV/BDAV playback priority = BDMV or BDAV
post #6234 of 6384
I've owned the 320 for 3 years now and sadly after reading some of the previous threads that indicated current titles that are struggling to perform I fear I have run across my first Bluray that wont even load properly "Promethius"
FYI Rocky Avengers played fine.
It could be time to look into another great player.
post #6235 of 6384
Spinal Tap,

Some shipments of the Prometheus discs (primarily some shipped to Best Buy) are known to have been defective. You might try returning the set you got for a replacement. If you got it from a local BB, you might be able to persuade them to try it on one of their display systems.
post #6236 of 6384
Thanks Seldon, but I purchased it at Target and have already replaced it with another copy. The replacement gave my 320 the same type of problem; However I went into the setup and erased some of the information it had stored from previous titles I had watched. The results were golden, it now plays fine and boy does it ever. I have yet to relax and watch this entire movie but the few minutes I spent testing out the material caused my RF-7s to get excited.
post #6237 of 6384
It's good to know that you located the problem. I would never have thought of it being a memory problem.
The visuals and sound track of Prometheus are amazing. It's too bad the quality of the script is so, umm, controversial. wink.gif
post #6238 of 6384
Well looks as if I can hold off for awhile on that new BR player. The 320 is still batting 1000.
post #6239 of 6384
Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post

Where should these settings be on my Pio Elite 23FD bluray player connected to my Kuro PRO-151FD pasma?
Video out - TV Aspect Ratio = 16:9 (Widescrean) or 4:3 Standard?
4:3 Video Out - Full or Normal?
HDMI High speed Transmission?
HDMI Color Space?
HDMI Audio Out?
Kuro Link?
Playback - Still Picture - Field or Frame or Auto?
Angle Secondary Indictator - On or Off?
Hybrid disc playback - BD or DVD or CD?
BDMV/BDAV playback priority = BDMV or BDAV

Video out - 16:9
4:3 video out - full
HDMI hi speed - on
HDMI color space - RGB 16 to 235
HDMI audio out - On if you want sound thru the tv, Off if not (I have mine set to Off)
Kuro Link - I don't use this, so I have it set to off.
Playback still picture - Auto
Angle/secondary indicator - Off
Hybrid disc playback - BD
BDMV/BDAV Playback priority - BDAV

Sorry for the delayed response. Hope this helps.
post #6240 of 6384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinal Tap View Post

Thanks Seldon, but I purchased it at Target and have already replaced it with another copy. The replacement gave my 320 the same type of problem; However I went into the setup and erased some of the information it had stored from previous titles I had watched. The results were golden, it now plays fine and boy does it ever. I have yet to relax and watch this entire movie but the few minutes I spent testing out the material caused my RF-7s to get excited.

Thanks for sharing the fix. I have this title on my Netflix list and will now know what to do if I have trouble playing it on my 320. smile.gif
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