2009 Mitsubishi Owners Thread (C9/737/837) - Page 206

This is what I need also. Question how do i program the code for HDMI-2?

K...Remote Control fixed.

Here's what happened. My replacement 65737 came in and it wouldn't respond to the remote or my Harmony which was programmed for my 733. (It worked great with my last 737 without reprogramming).

The back of the manual says to hold down the power button on the TV for ten seconds to reset it. Nothing. After ten seconds the power would kick on.

I called Mitsubishi, who acted like I was an idiot. I told them up front the problem was with the set, not remote. So the idiot questions came...

...Are you sure the batteries are in correctly.
Yes you moron.

...Is the middle indicator light that says TV on?
Yes...do you think I am a moron?

...Are you sure the TV indicator is on? Yes.
It was on before...and its still on.

...Let's try resetting the remote can I put you on hold.
Its not the remote idiot...but sure.

...Hold down the power button for ten seconds on the remote. Then enter 00935. Now try and turn on the TV.
Yeah...did that. Nothing happened.

...Okay lets try that again.
#*@%...ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? IT'S NOT THE DAMN REMOTE!!!!

...Okay...I'm going to transfer you level 2 tech support. Before you go is there anything else I can help you with today.
Are you kidding??? YOU HAVE YET TO HELP!!

Level 2 gets on the phone.

...Okay sir you seem to be having problems with the remote?
You freakin' think???

I run through everything we have done and this guys response is.

...Well I cannot help you with this problem. We will need to schedule a service tech to come out and help you.
#*@% Me.

So I started fiddling with it. I reset the set several times manually. Nothing.

I went back to trying to reset the remote control and while holding the power button down for ten seconds...boom the set turns on and magically the remote and my Harmony works.

Go #*@% yourself Mitsubishi.

On a side note...I immediately noticed this replacement was a lot clearer than my previous one. The menu is much sharper with Sharp Edge turned off. I punched in my previous settings and using that as a baseline, I will tweak it tonight when all the lights are off.

The real test will come when I pop EMPIRE back in.

cool, post some pics, and how old was your tv that you had replaced. i was just wondering because i just brought an 65737 and love it, but after reading this forum i do noticed some lights bleed into the darks on the top of the screen like a reflection. its only like a month old and im debating if i should have a tech look at it. it sounds like a pretty common thing so i might just deal with it.

If you're talking about the reflection into the black bar on letterbox material, yes it is normal. I barely and rarely see it on my set and it doesn't bother me in the least if I even notice it. Don't think a tech can do anything about it but it's worth a shot if it bothers you that much.

As far as the 2:35:1 bleed...to see some of that is normal, especially in bright or high contrast scenes. The extent of which may or may not be normal. If it is unbearable, I would post some pics and we'll take a look at it.

I saw some of that on my 733...and to a much lesser extent I've seen it on the 737.

My set was only a week old.

The picture is SO much clearer. I'll post take some menu pics sometime this weekend.

As far as THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. The color processing on those frames is better...but over all I still see the same problems. Can someone with a 737 post some pics of the Carbon Freeze duel to see if those problems with Vader's lightsaber show up on others' sets??

Plus, there is a much lesser degree of bowing on the screen. I'm not even sure I'll touch the geometry on this at all!

I'm thinking you should trade the 65837 for another 65837 first. There is a good deal of variability in some of these sets. If it looks that much worse than your old 835, I'd be suspicious it is the specific set rather than the model line. Unless you've seen several 837s already and know yours is consistent with them.

Sweet. Congrats. I bet the screen was bowed on the other one. Seems to be a semi-common problem on the 65" and 73".

thanks for the info, yea i only notice the reflection at night when all the lights are off, plus im used to watching a ten year 53 hitachi crt that finally died on me. this tv blows it out of the water. if i get some time this weekend ill try to post some pics with the star wars scene, to see if it does it on my tv.

Yep, that's when it is most noticeable. I didn't notice it on mine for months until I specifically watched a letterboxed movie with all the lights off. From what I've seen reported upstream, most people either never see it or don't notice it enough to find it bothersome. But there is some degree of individual sensitivity in that. I've come around to the idea it is there on all of them. I still haven't heard an explanation that I find satisfactory for exactly what causes it.

Heck, I don't really get why some HD movies are letterboxed on one delivery platform and not on another. Or even how that is technically possible. Premium HD movie channels don't show as letterboxed on my set. We watched _The Hurt Locker_ from DirecTV On Demand as 1080p the other night. . .and it wasn't letterboxed, so 1080p doesn't seem to be the driver. How do they even have 1080p be letterboxed on the Blu-ray and not letterboxed from On Demand without some form of pan & scan?

i know , its not that bad , the only reason i noticed it is because i looked for it , and i tried looking for any kind of flaw in this tv , i'll pause a movie and ask my wife , "can you see that" , all that does is piss her off and she tells me im crazy. all that being said , i can say that im very pleased with this tv. it is awsome! i got a ps3 and a xbox 360 , so i do play alot of games on it , and watch alot of blu-rays! i do have two questions for you all , i know how to get to the geometry screen but how do you change any thing , is it in the service manuel? and the second question is , i have a 5.1 surrond system, but it only has digital optical , i bit stream all my audio to the reciever, but i was wondering if there is a real difference with audio running thru hdmi "true hd audio" ?

Yes the lossless audio formats over HDMI are decidedly better. You are missing something. Like all audio, the better your room is the more improvement you will see. People seem to not realize how much difference a room makes. Some are magical, some not so much. Unfortunately my living room is in the not so much category and there isn's much I can easily do to improve the situation that my wife would accept. On the other hand our bedroom is golden in comparison. Much lower end gear sounds fantastic in that room in comparison, the HD formats especially.

The service manual will explain it if you want to look at it. The biggest thing i would say is don't tweak anything unless it is really bad. Pull up the grid test pattern to review your geometry. If it doesn't need it...don't touch it. My new set is nearly perfect. I don't think I'll touch it at all.

As far as what audio quality you are losing...it really depends on your speakers. I haven't noticed a huge difference, but then again I'm using 15+ year old JBL three way book self speakers. Don't get me wrong, but they can't really handle everything my Pioneer Elite SC-05 dishes out. I did get the Klipsch synergy quartet III for my surrounds. I plan on upgrading my front set up with the RF-62s...someday...when I can get around to affording it.

Moreover, the reason I wanted the SC-05 was to use it as an HDMI switch for my BluRay, Sat, & XBox. In the future when I have speakers that can rock it...I'll be grateful for the lossless sound.

Or maybe I'll save the money and start construction on that basement theatre that will take five years.

...yeah...speakers come first.

Yes, the main difference is just the firmware, but what a difference it makes.
Yes, I will agree that 837 is a more accurate set right out of the box but its controls don't offer near the range that the 835 does. I will admit its nice to have a choice of gamma, but the other controls in the advanced interface don't have the range to correct the color errors to an acceptable level.

The 835 had a main deficiency in that it had a desaturated blue (so does the 837) but the independent gain, saturation and hue controls it offered in the service menu worked much better and with more range than the 837's advanced mode CMS, offering a more saturated and pleasing image overall.

With the 837, blue is definatly the main issue here. You can chose between having a reasonable calibration in the advanced mode with potentially better gray scale and gamma but a blue that is quite a bit to high in luminance or, have the natural mode calibrated with a much better blue luminance but more inaccurate secondary colors.

I did encounter an apparent issue in the firmware of the 835 in that almost every setting in it suddenly jumped for no apparent reason to a wildly out of range value. some of these settings took more than a week of constantly holding down a button wile it slowly crawled its way back into it proper location. Most settings couldn't get back to the original locations. This basically required me to rely on my eye-one pro to dial it in and if it weren't for having it I likely would have never been able to get it back.

This event was the catalyst for my upgrade to the wd-65837 because it had its CMS in the user menu and from a distance the controls looked promising. That and the fact that my wd-65835 had developed a stripe in the black level in the center of the screen that was causing dark seen detail to suffer. I was later to find out that my 837 is STARTING TO DO THIS TOO!!! I could go on but you get the picture.

Here's a link to an early calibration I did of my wd-65835. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...9&d=1255836460

Don't pay any mind to the low light output, I was experimenting with theater levels at the time. I was later to find that if I used a APL picture level test patterns I was getting ruler flat 2.2 gamma The inaccurate gamma and luminance appears to be an effect of the the auto iris and isn't visible in real world viewing.

The only calibration I have seen that shows good results from the x37 series is one that was done by Chad B. One thing I will note is that he apparently had a much more accurate set than mine and every other set anyone one this forum has cared to share with us at the get go. Here is the before calibration reading. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...9&d=1267317408 here's the after. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...0&d=1267317408.

Now I was just wondering, I know Chad B is a very well respected calibrator and I don't doubt his abilities one bit. I place a great deal of respect and appreciation in the value of experience and I am probably just showing my ignorance here but I noticed that he calibrated this set with calman set up expecting a 70% test pattern. I was just wondering, is it possible that he was using the more standard 75% or 100% test patterns that are normally used on test patterns and not realizing that the program was set to the non default 70% value? I have seen that these sets can differ the color saturation levels based on different luminance levels.

This is the other great point. If you have a theatre room that you've spent money sound proofing with the high end equipment...you'll certainly notice the depth that lossless provides.

The every day living room...meh. You may notice a better improvement in sound by upgrading speakers before the receiver.

Does the WS-65737 have the ability to adjust like the 837?

I was also curious if the set comes with a stand or are people buying something to put it on? I noticed on BB that the 65C9 has this in the specs:
Product Height 56" with stand (39-1/2" without)

The 837 doesn't list that way and they don't have the 737 listed at all.

I will be using HCFR at least for awhile. The grayscale calibration on my 82837 was a freebie with that was included in deal on the set. I just got a meter today and am collecting drivers, installing HCFR etc. I have a DUO on the way. It will take me sometime to sort all that out. The tech that did the BB freebie sent me some graphs and no.. nada... coordinate data. I think the graphs are pretty useless. There is no chromacity information on the graph as they didn't do colors only gray scale.

So the CIE only shows the IREs clustered near the D65 point and the red circles from pre-calibration. He did not xy provide coordinates. I could probably press him for the data the graphs came from but I don't see the point. A BB calibration is brightness, contrast, saturation and tint with a filter (stupid when the TV has blue only mode) and a grayscale setting. He never entered the service menu.

The Geek Squad freebie calibration gamma is about 2.10 at 10 IRE and is hitting 2.40 at 90 IRE... it dips at 60 to about 1.86. The average of the 11 points is 2.08. The only thing I noticed really was the dip at 60. The rest were all above 2.0. That is the only graph he sent me that really seemed like it means something and it does not look that good.

I was on a phone call when he was working so I really could not follow along with him very well. I did see the corrected data on the grayscale and the delta error was well under 5 except under 20 IRE where one of the colors fell off badly as you would expect. IRE 10 has a delta error of 9.

Nothing much to go by for you, me or anybody else. I will measure everything again with the ADV settings I am currently running. I won't bother with trying to set things up any better in in the advanced mode. I will use one of the other setting.

Sometime probably late next week. I will to the grayscale on the DUO. I don't have it yet. The I will see what that looks like in the other modes. I will set warm to D65. I am interetested to see what the non-adv mode look like with warm corrected on the DUO. If Brilliant with proper gray scale and gamma is the best you can do with these sets as some in the Display Calibration thread assert, then that will be as far as I go.

If necessary I will get the primaries set properly on the DUO, and do the luminace for primaries and secondaries in the Mits Perfect Color, and try and get the secondaries the best I can with Perfect Tint. At least that is the direction I am heading. I am a newbie at this so we shall see how long it takes me to get there.

No and no unless BB is including the factory stand. That's probably a spec taken from Mits. Not necessarily included.

Another benefit of uncompressed audio is the clarity of the dialog through the center channel. My old ears appreciate that the most.

Matt

Do the C9 and 737 series convert 2D to 3D when wearing the 3D shutter glasses? And has anyone tried the Nvidia glasses?

Well I finally got my WD60C9 and its awesome! Right out of the box the picture looked great(only had to make a few adjustments) and there are no apparent geometry issues that I've noticed. Viewing it from the floor results in a slightly darker picture but it is still very watchable. My wife absolutely does not like this set....she wants me to send it back and put the Sony LCD back up. She sits in the corner of the room in a recliner and viewing it from that angle is not so great. The picture is brighter on one 1/2 than it is the other but I sat there for a while and didn't mind it so much. I told her to sit somewhere else.

So, I do have a couple of questions and I tried to find them in the FAQ but maybe I overlooked it.

1)Is there a way to disable the TV speakers? I use my receiver for audio and I don't need the TV speakers on. Right now I'm having to mute the set every time I turn it on.

2)I use Brilliant mode with some adjustments that I made but is there a way I can turn Sharp edge off? It seems the only way I can adjust sharp edge is if I set the mode to ADV. I like the picture on brilliant with the adjustments I made, I just want sharp edge off. Didn't know if this is something that could be done in the service menu?

Probably the only thing I hate about the set is the remote control and menus. The remote is crap and navigating through the menus is very frustrating.

Can you angle the TV to a position that is equally viewable by both?


Just turn the volume all the way down. It will get to zero, which is no sound.


I use my TV as a monitor in my HT setup, so I just use a universal remote and don't need to ever see the TV menus or the original remote. The universal remote just selects the input associated with the source I want to watch and it's all good.

Ha...this is part of Mitsubishi's dumb ass Activities menu. If you set your input to AVR, then you have the option to mute the speakers and ONLY on that setting.

Another stupid thing is we are supposed to have access to a fifth picture mode, GAME. Well...you only have this option if you name your input GAME. I suppose this TV is really designed for people that don't use a receiver as their HDMI switch point.


Yes you can disable sharp edge. If you open the video menu (MORE +8) or go in through Menu>Picture>Brilliant then you can scroll through and disable all the special features.

On my 73737 I think the viewing angle is great, I have no problems at all. Horizontal angle is affected if the set is up too high. I just turn the volume to zero, yes there should have been an option for off. All the adjustments are right there in picture mode without having to get into the service menu or advanced. Yes the remote is crap but I wouldn't say frustrating. It's quite easy to navigate just a crappy remote.

Well my set might be up too high. The table its sitting on his 28" off the floor. The viewing angle isn't terrible, its much better than my previous LCD I owned. The difference being, with LCD the picture would look washed out and lose color when looking at it from an angle, with DLP the picture just gets darker. I guess you would have to see the room and where the chair was situated.

Hmmm this did not work for me. When I go into picture settings I can only change the following....

Picture mode
Contrast
Brightness
Color
Tint
Sharpness
Color Temp
Video Noise

If I want to make more adjustments I have to go into Picture+ mode and go with ADV settings.

Yowza.

I get that if you use ADV modes you don't have a way to tame the blue luminance. That is why I bought DVDO DUO. I hope it ends up being the solution that I think it will be. That is not an inexpensive approach, but the 82" sets are the only really big sets that normal people can afford. The DUO is $849 from Beach Audio. Theoretically I should be able to use a combination of the controls on the DUO and the Perfect Color; Perfect Tint controls to get a good grayscale and control the blue. This keeps me out of the Service Menu altogether. I have no desire to have an event like you did. I just don't have the experience to recover from that. I need to be able to just reset user controls and start over. I can't imagine my own depression or my wife's attitude if I back myself into a corner like that, I would likely panic.


I have no way to evaluate what Chad B. achieved. I don't see anyone coming up with real solutions in the Calibration thread. I am hoping over time the CMS will get more advanced in the DUO and include secondaries. If that happens I will invest in a 4.0 version of Calman Enthusiastand make life easy. Heck I just bought my firt meter. My first pass last night, HCFR and it has me questioning either the meter or the free BB calibration that came with the 82837. I have no way to calibrate the meter, so I am kind of stuck at this point.

In the meantime I am a total newbie and I am just trying to understand all this stuff. It seems what you are saying it that a pro-calibrator would have made the 2008 look good. One of the aspects to my decision to return my 73735 was the lack of enthusiasm UMR provided on the phone when I called him about calibrating it. His public position and his private one seemed very different to me.

To me UMR said he felt the decoder errors made the Mits sets almost impossible to get right. He didn't exactly say he would not calibrate my 73735, but it did seem like he really did not want to get involved. He used to live down this way and now he only comes through occasionally. I guess he figured he might be in the 73735 all day when he was down and he might not make any money and not really make me happy.

Anyway, none of that would have solved how badly the screen bowed. At the time I would have waived money at it, to get someone to make it look decent. On all these Mits sets I have seen the blue is pretty awful out of the box, but the 2008 I had, and the 65” 2008 the neighbor has across the street are ghastly. The grayscale on my 2008 was calibrated by the senior guy with BB at the time. After the first guy they sent spent four on it and it looked worse then when he stated I blew a gasket. The senior tech had more patches on his shirt, than an eagle scout. I think he ISF and THX patches in multiple places. Now keep in mind that BB/Magnolia does not do color, they only calibrate grayscale. The 735 looked somewhat better after Mr. Geek Squad senior/expert spent 4 hours with it but it looked bad compared to how my HP 65" DLP looked out of the box and much worse than the HP looked after UMR calibrated it. The Samsung I own that followed the 735 was accurate enough out of the box, that I only set the brightness and contrast levels and said I am good for now. I was kind of tired of the whole thing at that point and my wife was beginning to question my sanity. It was kind of a good grief that horror is over kind of thing. It took about 15 months for me to get the gumption to try a Mits again. If you are wondering about the Samsung. It had great color, was nicely bright, but it had no iris, and you just could not get it very black (good for watching sports and bright movies).

So that's how I got to where I am today. I realized after 15 months that a 72inch set was not big enough for my room anyway. The Mits have the 82 inchers, they had ADV mode, which I thought was all I would need with Perfect Color and Tint, and the price was very good. I did not know when I bought the 82837 that the ADV modes precluded using the Perfect Color and Tint controls. If I can get the picture accurate even at the cost of buying the DUO then I will count myself very happy. My set actually looks good enough I could live with it the way it is, but if I can get it accurate it should be pretty spectacular. What I can't afford to do is go in the SM and make a mess of things and have to get bailed out because my wife's patience with my TV thing is still stretched a bit at this point.

If I get some good graphs, I will post them. I may take a full set of measures as a begining point. The BB stuff is here for what it is worth

here are the files that the Magnolia guy sent me after the grayscale etc a few weeks ago. I don't know what software they were using. The graphs are pretty useless, but anyway:

You have the C9 that sharp edge and deepfield imager can't be controlled from picture mode.

Yes 28" is too high, as small as an inch can make a difference. That's 5" higher than my 73" on a temp stand.

Ok, so how can I disable sharp edge for brilliant setting? Is there a way I can do this in the service menu or is my only option to use ADV mode?