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All this talk of sub 20hz I have a slightly different query. . .

post #1 of 15
5/1/09 at 1:40am
Thread Starter 
So I am in the market for a new sub. . .you get 1,000s of newbs like me everyday. I have read some very interesting and helpful information here already. . .thanks. . .on to the subject at hand. . .

My Infinity sub died (TSS-1100 sat system). I am not too heartbroken it was far from impressive anyhow. . .I do however really like the sound quality of the Satellite speakers (all 7 of them)--the highs are clear without being bright and the mids are very natural--harmonica and horns sound amazing. The problem though is that they only play down to about 120hz. . .I started to pull the trigger on a budget Cadence CSX 15 but read and read. . .and read. I then have looked at the Acoustech PL-200. and then have looked at and drooled over SVS PB10 and PB12, Ed A2-300 etc. . .Most of the graphs show a prounounced drop off around 100hz. Sooo, what does the braintrust think a good match would be so that I don't have a hole in the 90-120hz area?

Initially I was looking to spend ~$300 and then I looked and wanted something proven so I have gradually eased my conscience up to the $500-$550 mark. . .The Epik Vanquish looks pretty flat past 100hz but that is more than I am willing throw at a sub right now.

I'm running one of the ubiquitous HK AVR 254 7.1 receivers (so far so good). and the room is approx 12'w x 20'l x8.5'h, hardwood floors with too much furniture. Music is very important but I use the system for home theatre about equally. . .I really don't wanna have to wait for months though, I'm kinda an instant gratification type. . .Any thoughts are appreciated
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post #2 of 15
5/1/09 at 4:43am
Wantmore - Look into a Hsu STF-2. If you defeat the crossover, it is flat out to at least 200 Hz. It's 10 inch driver will also surprise you with the slam it can deliver. It's also pretty affordable.
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post #3 of 15
5/3/09 at 7:52pm
Thread Starter 
Craig, thanks for the advice I know that the STF-2 would be great but I have decided that I can spend a bit more money with the justification that I might avoid the inevitable upgrade sickness. Since I almost never crank music into the spl stratosphere anyhow, I reason that if I get something with some good excursion below 20hz and a good tight sound I might at least keep upgraditis at bay for awhile. (I can afford it, just didn't know if I wanted to.) Would the HSU VTF 2.3 (and 3.3) provide a flat freqency up to 120hz? (Craig, I ask specifically about it because I know you tested it.) I am kinda disappointed I couldn't find any graphs for the HSU subs. . .I almost wanna reach for the Epik Valor due to the nice demonstrated output and it doesn't hurt that it is U.S. made. . .Anybody wanna try and talk me into or out of one of these particular subs?
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post #4 of 15
5/4/09 at 3:46am
Wantmore - The VTF 2.3 and 3.3 both are flat to 200 Hz as well.

The Valor is out of production, unless Chad has some leftover inventory, but you did say Vanquish in the first post.
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post #5 of 15
5/8/09 at 4:00pm
I have similar questions about how to cover this frequency gap between 90 and 120. So what would you set the crossover for on your reciever. You'd set the speaks to 'Small', so all the lows go to the sub. So, would you have to set the cross over to 120? Everywhere I've read, they always recommend setting the crossover to 80. Are they assuming that your front speakers can handle down to 80?
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post #6 of 15
5/8/09 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainSailor View Post

I have similar questions about how to cover this frequency gap between 90 and 120. So what would you set the crossover for on your reciever. You'd set the speaks to 'Small', so all the lows go to the sub. So, would you have to set the cross over to 120? Everywhere I've read, they always recommend setting the crossover to 80. Are they assuming that your front speakers can handle down to 80?

It depends on the low frequency capability of your speakers. If they are small satellite speakers you may have to go as high as 120 and in some cases even higher.

Check the specifications for your specific speaker and start out at 1 step above, for instances if the frequency specs on your speakers are 80hz to 20khz then set the crossover at 100 which is just above the speakers low end capability of 80.

The reason 80 is recommend is because above 80 the bass can become localized. That's usually not much of an issue to most and not really much you can do about it if you have smaller speakers that require a higher setting.
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post #7 of 15
5/8/09 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WantMore View Post

Craig, thanks for the advice I know that the STF-2 would be great but I have decided that I can spend a bit more money with the justification that I might avoid the inevitable upgrade sickness. Since I almost never crank music into the spl stratosphere anyhow, I reason that if I get something with some good excursion below 20hz and a good tight sound I might at least keep upgraditis at bay for awhile. (I can afford it, just didn't know if I wanted to.) Would the HSU VTF 2.3 (and 3.3) provide a flat freqency up to 120hz? (Craig, I ask specifically about it because I know you tested it.) I am kinda disappointed I couldn't find any graphs for the HSU subs. . .I almost wanna reach for the Epik Valor due to the nice demonstrated output and it doesn't hurt that it is U.S. made. . .Anybody wanna try and talk me into or out of one of these particular subs?

Then get two STF-2s. That way you can locate one beside each main and cross them higher than 80hz and not have to worry about localization so much. This will get you more output down low, more evenness to your bass and more mid bass punch since your subs (larger driver) will be producing more of the mid bass. Set your speakers to small and crossed at 120hz. Set LFE to 120hz. After listening to that try 150hz and 180hz. I think you will be surprised with the improvement.
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post #8 of 15
5/8/09 at 4:36pm
I was thinking the same thing 2 STF 2s would be what I would do. You can always add a bigger heavier sub to fill out the deepest bass later like a VTF 3 or PB12nsd. JMO
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post #9 of 15
5/8/09 at 4:39pm
Anyone one know when the HSU MBM will be back instock its been out for awhile now?
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post #10 of 15
5/8/09 at 5:11pm
It can be a real eye opener to run testing software such as REW on your mains.

Particularly if you are going for an overall boost in the bass, the response in the 80-100 Hz range may not be what you want. A nice eq can help somewhat if you boost these frequencies, but it does put an extra load on the woofers.
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post #11 of 15
5/8/09 at 9:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

It depends on the low frequency capability of your speakers. If they are small satellite speakers you may have to go as high as 120 and in some cases even higher.

Check the specifications for your specific speaker and start out at 1 step above, for instances if the frequency specs on your speakers are 80hz to 20khz then set the crossover at 100 which is just above the speakers low end capability of 80.

The reason 80 is recommend is because above 80 the bass can become localized. That's usually not much of an issue to most and not really much you can do about it if you have smaller speakers that require a higher setting.

Thanks. That makes sense. I appreciate the response. I guess if your satelite speakers are too small, 120hz or so, and your sub is rated to be decent only up to about 100Hz, and you have your cross over set to 130hz, then you might have some poor sounds in the 100 - 150 band coming out of your sub. Correct?
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post #12 of 15
5/9/09 at 3:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainSailor View Post

Thanks. That makes sense. I appreciate the response. I guess if your satelite speakers are too small, 120hz or so, and your sub is rated to be decent only up to about 100Hz, and you have your cross over set to 130hz, then you might have some poor sounds in the 100 - 150 band coming out of your sub. Correct?

Yes the choice of subwoofers in that case would be more critical and you would want to make sure the subs built in crossover is by passable. Some subs are more capable than others in that region like the Epik Vanquish which is rated 20 - 500 Hz +/-3 dB anechoic and should be a good choice to match with speakers that fit that criteria.

Ultimately the best thing to do in that case would be to get larger more capable mains but for some that's not feasible.
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post #13 of 15
5/9/09 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

Yes the choice of subwoofers in that case would be more critical and you would want to make sure the subs built in crossover is by passable. Some subs are more capable than others in that region like the Epik Vanquish which is rated 20 - 500 Hz +/-3 dB anechoic and should be a good choice to match with speakers that fit that criteria.

Ultimately the best thing to do in that case would be to get larger more capable mains but for some that's not feasible.

Very interesting. Thanks. Ok, so to reverse the question. If my mains will go lower than I need and my sub will go higher than I need, what is the ideal crossover to set your receiver to? 80hz?
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post #14 of 15
5/9/09 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainSailor View Post

Very interesting. Thanks. Ok, so to reverse the question. If my mains will go lower than I need and my sub will go higher than I need, what is the ideal crossover to set your receiver to? 80hz?

Setting the speakers to small with and 80hz crossover in the AVR and bypassing the subs crossover in most cases is recommended even if your mains are capable of going lower the sub is designed and better equipped to handle those frequencies. Plus lower frequencies take more power and it takes a load off the AVRs amps and leaves that to the subs amp which is what it was specifically designed for.

This is a general rule and a good baseline but it can vary, some will even crossover lower if they have extremely capable mains which most of us don't.
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post #15 of 15
5/9/09 at 10:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

Setting the speakers to small with and 80hz crossover in the AVR and bypassing the subs crossover in most cases is recommended even if your mains are capable of going lower the sub is designed and better equipped to handle those frequencies. Plus lower frequencies take more power and it takes a load off the AVRs amps and leaves that to the subs amp which is what it was specifically designed for.

This is a general rule and a good baseline but it can vary, some will even crossover lower if they have extremely capable mains which most of us don't.

You really helped me with this. Thanks again. I've always wondered about these settings.
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