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PJ on a high shelf

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I'm new the projector idea, but I'm in the process of building a new house and plan to have a projector in the living room. This will only happen if I can keep it out of sight, so I'm having the builder put a recessed shelf in the back wall (basically a box built into the wall for the pj) over a garden style window (window box is about 2 feet deep). The PJ will be about 8' above the floor while sitting on this shelf. My concern is if it will have enough lens shift to display the image on a screen that is lower than the projector. The screen will be in a recessed ceiling space and will lower over the front wall. Not sure yet where the center of the viewing area will be yet (newbie thing again). I thought it should be somewhere around the upper middle of the wall. The ceiling is 9'.

I don't know if I'll be able to point the projector downward, or if I should (newbie here). If it's advisable, I probably could point it some, but not much. I won't be getting a projector until next year, so who knows what will be available then. However, just for discussion's sake, let's say I buy an Epson 6500 UB. How far down will I be able to shift the lens to the screen? I haven't bought a screen yet, so I'm open to what will help there too in this situation. The room will have about 95% controlled lighting, but with a little effort I can raise that to 100%.

I'm looking at getting a 110 screen, the projector will be about 14.5' from the screen, and the seating will be about 11'.

Thanks for any help you can give!
post #2 of 18
Try not to need to aim the projector down (or up). This forces you to use digital keystone correction (costs a little in terms of picture quality) or put up with a not quite rectangular picture.

I would suggest having the shelf no higher than the top of the screen (50% lens shift). Some models of projectors have more lens shift than that but not all of them do. Also the more lens shift, the greater the chance of having some lens aberrations or other picture quality problems creep in. Zero percent lens shift stands for the projector aimed at the center of the screen. A 100% lens shift means the projector is half the screen height above the top of the screen (or half the screen height below the bottom).
post #3 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjp View Post

I'm new the projector idea, but I'm in the process of building a new house and plan to have a projector in the living room. This will only happen if I can keep it out of sight, so I'm having the builder put a recessed shelf in the back wall (basically a box built into the wall for the pj) over a garden style window (window box is about 2 feet deep).

How big is the recessed box in the wall, that you plan to put the PJ in? I would be seriously concerned with the projector overheating if the space is too small.
post #4 of 18
Mounting the projector near the TOP of the screen means hanging it upside down and inverting the image. Any image image shifting will be minimized. Make sure you mount the projector with the lens centered on the vertical centerline of the screen and the projector square to the screen.

Being able to shift the image is all well and good, and there are those that rely on that too much. A good installation starts with the projector properly positioned, thereby minimizing any adjustments which could degrade the image, however slight.
post #5 of 18
As Sheridan said, you will need to invert most, if not all, PJ's.

Most DLPs have some offset and prefer to be above the screen (when inverted). Offset numbers can be a pain to interpret as there is no standard. Hopefully, you have some clearance over your shelf.

You just need to find the units that fit your installation.
post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Jayne View Post

Try not to need to aim the projector down (or up). This forces you to use digital keystone correction (costs a little in terms of picture quality) or put up with a not quite rectangular picture.

I would suggest having the shelf no higher than the top of the screen (50% lens shift). Some models of projectors have more lens shift than that but not all of them do. Also the more lens shift, the greater the chance of having some lens aberrations or other picture quality problems creep in. Zero percent lens shift stands for the projector aimed at the center of the screen. A 100% lens shift means the projector is half the screen height above the top of the screen (or half the screen height below the bottom).

Thanks Allan! Very helpful!!! I went to a Panny showroom today in Yokohama and saw a PT-AE3000U on a 100" screen. I took measurements of their setup, including the room/ceiling/mounting position (ceiling mount) and compared it to what I am planning. The projector should point right at the top of the screen in my room, so a 50% lens shift is what I'm looking at.

I'm planning to go to a high end home theater shop soon, so I'll see what they can help me with too.

That Panny showroom was a good trip...and damn, if they didn't have an army of super hot young Japanese girls working there. They were everywhere and that made it hard to focus on the other goods.
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffKB View Post

How big is the recessed box in the wall, that you plan to put the PJ in? I would be seriously concerned with the projector overheating if the space is too small.

The space is too small and I've been very concerned with the heat issue. I'm trying to think of some ways to make this work now.

I'm going to increase the shelf space by making the wall come out in a arc above the window...the arc will point out towards the front wall and the pj will be on top of it. This will increase the depth of the shelf by about 5". The will be about 5 inches of clearance above the pj, but about 8" back from the front of the pj the box will open up to about 10" higher (this will be hidden behind the wall. The part that comes down above the front part of the pj is the wall support, so I can't move that. Air flow will be restricted because of this though.

I'm thinking of putting some quiet pc fans in the area that opens up over the back part of the pj. I'm also thinking to make the shelf under the pj have slits in the bottom to help move air. The box will be wider than the unit (this is the only area where I have some room to work with), so maybe I should put the slits on the sides so the pj doesn't cover them up.

The size of the box with the arc will be:

25" W
22" D
10" H in front
20" H in back (after first 8" with the arc)
post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan1952 View Post

Mounting the projector near the TOP of the screen means hanging it upside down and inverting the image. Any image image shifting will be minimized. Make sure you mount the projector with the lens centered on the vertical centerline of the screen and the projector square to the screen.

Being able to shift the image is all well and good, and there are those that rely on that too much. A good installation starts with the projector properly positioned, thereby minimizing any adjustments which could degrade the image, however slight.

Can I invert most pj's on a shelf? It looks like some of them have rounded tops, so how will this work? I looked at the PT-AE3000U and it is flat, but the controls on the unit are on the top and that would make them inaccessible. Will most pj's allow me to control all these things with the remote?
post #9 of 18
Not recommended. A projector on it's back is unstable and unadjustable. Use a readily available ceiling mount and hang it from the UPPER surface of the recess. Of course, this will increase the space necessary, but then you do NOT want close quarters, the projector HAS to be able to breathe or it will overheat and shut down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjp View Post

Can I invert most pj's on a shelf? It looks like some of them have rounded tops, so how will this work? I looked at the PT-AE3000U and it is flat, but the controls on the unit are on the top and that would make them inaccessible. Will most pj's allow me to control all these things with the remote?
post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan1952 View Post

Not recommended. A projector on it's back is unstable and unadjustable. Use a readily available ceiling mount and hang it from the UPPER surface of the recess. Of course, this will increase the space necessary, but then you do NOT want close quarters, the projector HAS to be able to breathe or it will overheat and shut down.

Thanks for your help on this Sheridan! So how about if I cut out a space for pc fans above the vent slots on the bottom of the shelf and then I have 2 or 3 of these in there to blow hot air out? I'm thinking it would be better to have air pulled out rather than in correct? With low noise fans, with noise still be problem? If this is a good solution, should I place them in back of the box or middle?
post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
I'd probably have a much easier time fitting these in....80mm rather than 120mm.
post #12 of 18
The possibilities are limitless as you are building a house. My projector is removable and mounted on a shelf about 8 ft high. I had to set it up like this because it's in my bedroom and has to be out of the way when not being used. It takes about 10 seconds to setup or remove the projector. I have been happy with this setup for 3 years now. Your setup doesn't have to be over-complicated or expensive to work well.

A simple, adjustable shelf -- cost about $15. Who cares about the cables hanging when you are watching movies in the dark.


The projector and shelf easily come off when not in use.


Just two more brackets to remove.


And a picture can be hung where the projector was. The room becomes a bedroom again.
post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjp View Post

Can I invert most pj's on a shelf? It looks like some of them have rounded tops, so how will this work? I looked at the PT-AE3000U and it is flat, but the controls on the unit are on the top and that would make them inaccessible. Will most pj's allow me to control all these things with the remote?

If you are considering the AE3000 or the Epson 6500ub (mentioned in your 1st post), you shouldn't have to worry about inverting. Those projectors supposedly allow an equally generous amount of lens shift both up and down. Do your research to verify any planned projector will work from a throw/lens shift/offset standpoint, but unless you are using a fixed offset projector (most all DLPs for example), or one in which there is a greater amount of vertical lens shift up rather than down, you don't need to invert. As others have mentioned though - avoid the extreme ranges of the shift to minimize potential artifacts.

For the cooling problem, the issues you face are not that much different than those faced when building a hush box. If you search for hush box (use +hush +box as search parameters in the advanced menu) you should be able to see what others have done to insure proper air flow. Also search the archives, since hush boxes are kinda out of vogue due to the quietness of newer projectors.

Good luck with the choices.
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Wow! Thanks for all the help guys!!! I'm feeling much better now about the heat issue. I think I found a fan that would work well for me in this box. This one moves a ton of air and comes with a grill cover. If I can spray paint the cover a similar color to the wall paper, it should be pretty well camouflaged.

The one drawback I see is it is 19 db vs. 10 db for the smaller ones. I was thinking to use 3 of the smaller ones, but with the bigger one I would only need one and still should similar airflow. 19 db still seems pretty quiet since the seating will be about 4' back and 4' up from the place where the fan will run. I could have a light switch on the wall that would turn the fan off and on.

Do you think the fan will be quiet enough to not be annoying during movie watching? Is spray painting a good option for the grill or will that plug holes?

The fan plus the power adapter they sell with it comes to about $45, which is a good deal to take care of heat issues. I still need to read some more about proper air flow, but this is what I've come up with so far.
post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidt1 View Post

The possibilities are limitless as you are building a house. My projector is removable and mounted on a shelf about 8 ft high. I had to set it up like this because it's in my bedroom and has to be out of the way when not being used. It takes about 10 seconds to setup or remove the projector. I have been happy with this setup for 3 years now. Your setup doesn't have to be over-complicated or expensive to work well.

A simple, adjustable shelf -- cost about $15. Who cares about the cables hanging when you are watching movies in the dark.


The projector and shelf easily come off when not in use.


Just two more brackets to remove.


And a picture can be hung where the projector was. The room becomes a bedroom again.

Dude! That is pretty ingenious! I don't think it will work for my living room because I won't have a place to easily store the pj out of sight.....still, very nicely done!!!
post #16 of 18
Projectors with robust lens ****? I never hang upside down anymore. High shelf even if I have to suspend from the cieling it is.
post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidt1 View Post

The possibilities are limitless as you are building a house. My projector is removable and mounted on a shelf about 8 ft high. I had to set it up like this because it's in my bedroom and has to be out of the way when not being used. It takes about 10 seconds to setup or remove the projector. I have been happy with this setup for 3 years now. Your setup doesn't have to be over-complicated or expensive to work well.

A simple, adjustable shelf -- cost about $15. Who cares about the cables hanging when you are watching movies in the dark.


The projector and shelf easily come off when not in use.


Just two more brackets to remove.


And a picture can be hung where the projector was. The room becomes a bedroom again.

There are no screw holes at the top of the HD70. How did you attach it to those 3 posts?
post #18 of 18
There is no attachment. The projector sits on this anti-skid silicon material.

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