Best 5.1 speaker setup for around $2000?

That is a big room and bass will be a big concern.
- A pair of SVS MBS bookshelf speakers
- An SVS SCS center speaker
- A pair of SVS SBS surrounds
- And two PB12 NSD SVS subs.

This is going to be very close to your $2500 max budget. You could just get one PB12 sub for now to save some money and add a second down the road. That is a lot of room to fill with sound. I would hold off upgrading your receiver until you have speakers, and getting some bass traps and other acoustical treatments in the room should be bigger priority than upgrading your receiver IMHO.

Another option would be to go with HSU:
http://hsuresearch.com/products/ultra1.html

This would also give you a 7.1 setup (and a massive sub) to fill your room.

There are other options as well, but plan on spending at least $1000-1200 on your subwoofer(s).

Depends on your preference. But the bookshelf speakers I mentioned above are designed to rollover at around the 80hz mark and then let the subs take over. Tower speakers may give you some more midrange, but they will typically cost more and you will have to get a cheaper sub to stay in budget. I am a big fan of dedicated subs. But I use my system almost exclusively for home theater and do not really listen to much 2 channel music. If you listen to alot of 2 channel music then tower speakers would make more sense.

Either way you go, acoustical treatments are going to be a must IMHO if you really want to maximize the space and get the most out of your speakers.

Axiom Audio M50 Towers, VP 150 Center, QS4 surrounds, and 2 SVS PB10 NSD, will put you right at 2500. I don't think small sealed bookshelfs would be good for that size room. Then IMO instead of going to 7.1 later use those funds for a 3rd PB10 sub. Do the sub crawl for each sub. You'll have a fine system.

If you can over look AV123's customer service blunders, they do offer their 5.0 package for around your budget. It seems that they are in stock. Just make sure you order with Credit Card. Swan Diva at Ozhometheater.com is also around your budget as well. These are my two favorite under $2K budget.

JBL L series, Polk Lsi, Monitor Audio, Paradigm, PSB are others that you can look into as well.

Check out this site...free audition in your own home. Excellent customer service. 10 yr. warranty. Trade-up program. I have had Aperions for over a year, would never give them up. Excellent for HT/Music.

http://www.aperionaudio.com/home.aspx

Are you going to mount the TV on a wall? If so, how high off the ground do you intend to mount it?


I'm a big fan of Ascend Acoustics speakers, and I since you at least asked about larger speakers, I think the following system could be a good fit:

Front Left & Right:
Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SE

Center (or might use another mini-tower configuration if your TV is mounted high enough):
Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SEC

Surrounds:
Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE

Subwoofer:
SVS PC12-Plus - $949
--OR--
SVS PB12-NSD X 2 - $1138
--OR--
SVS PB12-Plus - $1139
--OR--
SVS PC13-Ultra - $1399

Total cost of the speakers (minus the sub and stands/mounts) is $1188 (shipped). If you don't really need the larger speakers for two-channel stereo (with no sub), then the CBM-170 SE should fill that room up just fine, leaving an additional $340 in your pocket, in your subwoofer, or in a couple of back surrounds.


It depends on which speakers you buy and how far away the seats will be. The speakers I've listed are all fairly efficient and should do fine with this receiver unless you'll be sitting all the way across the room. The speakers from SVS should be OK with regard to power, but it's a bit more marginal. Oh, by the way, how far away will the seats be?


That's an intriguing thought because depending on how much of a "bass-head" one is, even a single PB12-NSD may be able to impress in a room of this size (certainly not most people here, but it's not entirely out of the question).


Yes, it may not be louder or even as loud, but it should sound better.

A MTS 5.1 setup is worth saving up for.

Seeing's how you're gonna be saving up...take a look at the Rythmik f12/15.

The MTS fronts get rave reviews. I am not sure if the MBS rears would give you the value for your money vs just using SCS01's as rears. I love my SVS SCS-01 speakers. They replaced a set of Polk tower speakers and I cannot explain how much better these speakers sound vs the Polk towers. SVS uses very good tweeters and their speakers have excellent imaging. They are neutral, but that is not a bad thing IMHO. That is why I am not sold that two more expensive tower speakers are the way to go vs more inexpensive bookshelves and a powerful dedicated sub solution. Based on my own experience this has not been the case. But I am using my system almost exclusively for home theater.

I recommend calling up SVS this week and chatting with them. If you are mostly doing home theater/gaming even the MTS towers could be overkill. Talk to them and see what they think. And, obviously there are other companies as well like Ascend, Emotiva, and HSU that you should look into more.

As for 2 PB12's NSD's vs one PB13 ultra it is tough to answer. The PB13 Ultra will be more powerful and can extent lower, but having two subs can be advantageous in a larger room with tall ceilings. The nice thing about buying two less expensive subs vs one expensive sub is that it is easier on the budget, and you may simply find that one PB12 NSD is enough. Again, I would see what the experts at SVS think. I can tell you this. SVS is a very solid company and very honest (and no, I do not work there) I called them several times when I was at the same stage you are at and they were great to work with. There is a reason why so many people refer them on this forum and others. They offer great speakers at a great price and have very solid customer service.



I think most people are newbies when it comes to room acoustics. I am still learning myself. I just helped a friend build a dedicated home theater room and was amazed at what a difference acoustics played regarding AQ. I see people buy expensive speakers but then pay little to no attention (or money) towards acoustics. IMHO, they would have been better off buying cheaper speakers and spending some of their money on their room acoustics.

Enough rambling. This is a great place to start:
http://www.gikacoustics.com/index.html

You can educate yourself there and they have affordable products. I am looking at these myself:
http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_artpanel.html

along with bass traps.

Here is another good site:
http://www.realtraps.com/

Acoustically, your room isn't too bad. You have a combination of soft and hard (furniture, carpet and reflective walls). In a theater, you'd be concerned if someone sitting in a corner got good sound. But, you only need concern yourself with a smaller area in the center.

The SVS line uses dome tweets, which reflect off the walls many times. HSU uses horns, which direct the sound.

In your space, I'd choose horns. You'll get a good direct sound plus a good second bounce. If you get too much high end, add some heavy curtains or other sound dampeners.

Better run and get a new AVR if you choose the SVS as both systems are too inefficient for both the room and the Onkyo AVR at 84 and 88db respectively. Given your intended budget and room size, the HSU system with dual subs is a much more cost effective option for your space and AVR. The Enthusiast 1 package substitiute the sub for an MBM-12 and add a VTF-3 and you're set with near reference level playback from the Onkyo and all within your original budget of $2k.

I am not so sure the 606 is inefficient to drive these speakers. I have an Onkyo 605 and drive SVS SCS-01 speakers that are rated at 87db and I can barely stand to turn my volume above 65 for Blu-Ray movies (and I listen to movies pretty loud, I imagine most people would have the volume between 55-60). Anything higher than that will have my wife screaming at me to turn the volume down and would be uncomfortable. My room is smaller than the OP's (15x17x8) and my couch is about 12 ft away from my main speakers. I have cranked the volume up to around 75 and the speakers and receiver did not seem to blink an eye. I did not notice any distortion or clipping.

Obviously the OP has more space, but he is not sitting at the far end of the room away from his speakers either. I would guess that the 606 would be just fine as long as he does not try to crank the volume above 80 or so.

OP, if you are concerned about this talk to SVS. They will definitely know if your receiver will be able to handle their SCS-01, MTS, and MBS speakers with your room dimensions in mind.

I do agree with several of the last posts that you should consider the HSU speakers. But keep in mind that they have horn tweeters (some people love them, some people hate them) and are rear ported (which means placing them in cabinets or close to walls could be an issue). When I was researching HSU's HB1-MKII speakers ideal placement from the back of the wall was 27". But when I spoke to engineer he said they would be fine with around 6" or so of clearance to the back wall. In the end I decided that a sealed speaker was better for my needs.

And if you are only running a 5.1 speaker config you can bi-amp the back speaker channels to the front speaker channels on the Onkyo 606 with the MBS/MTS speakers if you want more power (this would give you one amp to drive the tweeter and another to drive the woofer). Consult your Onkyo 606 manual for more information.

Are those HSU satellites requiring a minimum of 4 ohms? I am probably interpreting the specs wrong, b/c the matching center is saying 12 ohms nominal/ 8 ohms min.

If there are any 4 ohm requirements for the speakers, the 605,606,607 can not handle them.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hc-1.html

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hb-1.html

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/enthusiast1.html

Also, I will also throw out a recommendation for Paradigm speakers. If you are trying to fill the room with sound, the Monitor 11 towers are very effecient. You can probably get a pair of Monitor 11 towers, a CC290 center and Atoms for the surround....and if you get a good enough deal from a retailer, that should leave you about 500 for a sub.

How tall is the table your TV sits on?

You could do this:

- buy 3 pairs of KEF iQ3 at $320 / pr

$960 for a great sounding 6.0

Then spend $1000 on the best sub you can get:
- Epik Dragon
- Rythmik F15
- SVS PB12-Plus (slightly over budget)
- eD A7-350 (also over budget)
- HSU VTF3-mk3

You might even want to consider two subs in your space.

About how far back (ft) is your seating from your main fronts speakers? Also, what speakers are you currently driving with your Onkyo 606? Is the Onkyo powerful enough?

I also found this handy calculator for determining peak SPL's for your receiver and speakers (it is not exact because of room dimensions and accoustics):
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

In my case my receiver, using 87db sensitive speakers from 12ft away, can peak around 105db, which is somewhere between "uncomfortably loud" and "painful" and would definitely result in long term hearing loss if listened to for any extended period of time.

And I can test to my receiver being able to drive my speakers to the "uncomfortably loud" range without clipping or distortion. I suspect you would be in a similar situation. My point? Don't rush out and buy a new AVR if you get speakers that are in the 85-87db range for sensitivity. It may be more than enough. Or it may not (depending on how loud you listen to things, but realize you could be permanently damaging your hearing too). You cannot just look at specs alone. Two speakers could be rated the same but may sound different at various levels of output. The only way to truly know would be to try them out

Then I suspect the 606 will be more than enough for 85-87db sensitive speakers. Normal conversations take place in the 60-70db territory. An 87db sensitive speaker will only take 1 watt of power (your receiver is rated for 95 watts per channel for 8ohm speakers) to drive that 87db's. I doubt you would listen to sound (sustained) much higher than that so your receiver should have plenty of headroom left over (even if you wanted to listen at around 90db sustained, which could result in hearing loss over long periods of time). Also keep in mind a dedicated subwoofer has it's own amp powering it. If your speakers are placed properly and are toed in it will also help with regards to how loud you will listen.

More power is always better, but no sense in paying for something if you are not going to need it. Stepping up to a more expensive Onkyo receiver (706, 806) will not really give you much more power per channel. It will give you more features though and slightly more power.

The point i make is not overall loudness, but available headroom for dynamics....which makes a big difference. The reason your 105db level is almost painfull is distortion...plain and simple. AS mentioned earlier....in that size space the directivity of a horn is also desired. I do agree that the SVS system is a great package.....in smaller spaces. I don't know about putting ANY speaker in a cabinet and expecting good results....if that's a requirement for installation....don't waste the money on quality stand alone speakers and opt for inwalls.

All the suggestions above are very good.

If you consider used, a Definitive Technology BP2000 package is attainable in your price range, is much more efficient AANNDD has 15" Woofers in the towers with built-in 300 watt sub amps. You could probably score 4 BP2000s and a CLR 2000 or 3000 and stay in your budget.

That's 4(!!!) 15" subs, driven by 1200 watts for bass. Not to mention clean, efficient sound through the rest of the range, easily driven by your Onkyo.

Just sayin'...

Not to derail the thread but what makes you think that a 90 watt per channel receiver (at 8ohms) could not drive 85-87db rated speakers from 12ft away? Even when factoring in headroom for dynamics? Consider. For an 87db sensitive speaker:
1 watt = 87db
4 watt = 93db
10 watt = 97db
20 watt = 100db
40 watt = 103db
100 watt = 107db
200 watt = 110db

That is not taking into account his room acoustics (which are not bad), his seating distance (which is 12ft), the fact that he will be running a multichannel setup. I just want to understand how you came to the conclusion that the 606 would be underpowered for SVS speakers. Perhaps I am missing something or am not understanding something. And what receiver would you recommend to power these SVS speakers when you told him he needed to upgrade? How many watts? The 606 is rated at 90watts per channel at 8ohm. The 706 is rated at 100 watts, and the 806 is rated at 130 watts. As far as price goes, you are talking about spending double to get an extra 40 watts.

And what about biamping the back surrounds (since he is not using them) to the fronts (the Onkyo 606 allows you to do this) if power is a concern?

OP, I am sorry if I am derailing your thread, but other people read these threads too and I just want to understand the rational of having to buy another receiver for SVS speakers for your room.

And mayhem13, my concern with rear ported speakers (for me) was that I eventually want to place these speakers in a false wall behind an acoustically transparent screen. The false walls depth will be approximately 21-22" and this would not account for acoustic treatments (linacoustic) that will be going inside the wall. Based on the depth of the HSU HB1-MKIII speaker and taking into account the screen (the AT screen I am looking at recommend placing the speaker about 2-3 inches behind the screen) that would not give me very much room for flexibility with regards to a rear ported speaker. So I went with a sealed design and spoke to both HSU and SVS about what I was trying to do. I felt more comfortable with a sealed speaker design.

Obviously the OP may not have the same concerns, but I see lots of people that place speakers, (especially center channel speakers) in enclosed cabinets (front of cabinet open). For me, I recommend sealed speakers for people who are in this situation.

You do know that the best centre speaker is an identical speaker to the L/R fronts, right.

The typical centre speaker design is a compromise because most people can't do that.

yeah, your room is large enough that (if aesthetic concerns don't dictate otherwise) you could do three identical tower speakers across the front, with the Pio wall-mounted above the center tower.

shoot, with that much space you could get five towers and use them as surrounds also, as the current owner looks like he is doing in the photos.... although you'd be pushing the budget a bit with that....

To echo rick240's point there is a good writeup here discussing this:
http://www.audioholics.com/education...peaker-designs

My point wasn't for him to get a different receiver, but choose more efficient speakers to go with his receiver...the more sensible option. I don't think we should offer the OP a compromise right off the bat, considering he came here to us for advise. AS for calling the manufacturer for advice, yep that's exactly what i'd do as that's clearly the most unbiased opinion the OP will get when making a purchase ?

But how did you come to the conclusion that the 606 is not efficient enough to drive the SVS sepakers in the first place? That is all I am trying to figure out. Do you have some magic chart that says the Onkyo 606 will not work with SVS speakers? And the OP was also talking about buying the SVS MTS speakers which are rated at 91db for sensitivity.

SVS is internet direct and is very reputable. They are not some fly-by-night dealer or company. I have talked to them several times and felt they were very honest and upfront. Maybe I am naive, but I cannot imagine them trying to sell you speakers that they feel are wrong for your room and your gear just to make a quick buck. If you did your homework on them you would understand that this is not how they built their reputation or built their name. They live and die by word of mouth and forums like these.

And it is not just SVS. I would say the same for HSU and Emotiva. I was set to pull the trigger on Emotiva ERM1 speakers originally and actually placed the order. That night I realized they were 4ohm speakers and after checking my Onkyo 605 manual, I realized the Onkyo 605 does not recommend driving 4ohm speakers (just 6 and 8ohm). So I called up Emotiva first thing the next day and spoke to an engineer and he told me that it was best to stick to Onkyo's recommendations and cancel my order, even though he felt the 605 could handle the ERM-1's since they are a continuous 4ohm speaker and he has heard of other people running ERM-1's on the 605 with no issue. Believe me, Emotiva earned my respect, and I will definitely give them business in the future. I have also spoken with HSU several times over the years and they were a standup outfit. Very honest and upfront. I never once felt like they were trying to just make a sale. Again, do your homework. Not every company is dishonest and is trying to make a quick buck. And almost all of these companies have satisfaction guarantees. You may be out the shipping, but you are not stuck.