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Samsung PN5xB650 Owner Thread - Page 161

post #4801 of 5062
Same here. I only become aware of it if I sit at exactly the right height and position (which for me is my coffee table ) or am right in front of the set such as when calibrating, etc. On mine, it still emanates louder from the upper right side and less from the upper left. So I still hear it at certain times...but nothing like the level of the original buzzing. I'm approaching 1K hours now.
post #4802 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeBar View Post

Same here. I only become aware of it if I sit at exactly the right height and position (which for me is my coffee table ) or am right in front of the set such as when calibrating, etc. On mine, it still emanates louder from the upper right side and less from the upper left. So I still hear it at certain times...but nothing like the level of the original buzzing. I'm approaching 1K hours now.

puttin' your hours in i see! although, if i was rockin' the 58" i'd prob be around 1k myself . anyway nice to know I'm not crazy, buzz playing tricks on my noggin. having followed your posts, it seems our sets are similar, buzz-wise. If anyone else has noticed this, dont hesitate to chime in. I remember PENDRAGOON mentioned the same thing about C450 some time back.
post #4803 of 5062
58b650
Anyone know if this is normal. Horizontal banding(almost like a really high ratio IE 3.50:1 letterbox) close to the middle.


Also a pink hue on the middle-right on white screens.

Also a darker band on the right third of most solid screens.




I have 100+ hours on it and one more week to return. Barely noticeable unless viewing an almost completely white screen.
LL
post #4804 of 5062
I have inputed milians(sp?) game mode picture settings since I've put a decent amount of time into the set. It looks so much better than the standard default mode and pretty close to huffmans settings. The only thing is certain colours are desaturated ( blue, yellow). I only want to slightly tweak it, anyone care to share their game mode?

Ah, I'm just happy that clinical blue tint is gone.
post #4805 of 5062
The horizontal band in the middle is normal...everything else....don't think so. Especially the pink.
post #4806 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1080pee View Post

The horizontal band in the middle is normal...everything else....don't think so. Especially the pink.

Weird...my old samsung 5084 didn't have any of these issues. 3 years later it's still perfect. Not one issue.
post #4807 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeBar View Post

No, that very dark screen, as you already know, is not 0 IRE. That is no signal display below set threshold of Brightness, in common parlance. You can adjust it so that 0 IRE stays onscreen by putting a 0 IRE screen up and adjusting Brightness 1 click at a time to test. This is something you have to check for continually when calibrating as Contrast, Brightness, Gamma and Color temp changes can all have an effect. I recommend the AVS HD disc available on this site for free download. It has many useful screens and a section that contains near black in 1% increments.

When using calibration software, on the greyscale or RGB graph, when RGB lines enter straight vertically from top or bottom at 10 IRE instead of angling in from the 0 IRE position, it usually means the 0 IRE screen was below threshold and the true verification if that is the case will be the Y reading of 0's for that value of IRE. I have seen many graphs like this on this site and often wonder if the people that recorded them even took notice.

ClarkeBar - I'm not really sure what you mean by "No, that very dark screen, as you already know, is not 0 IRE" and "That is no signal display below set threshold of Brightness, in common parlance. " When I view the 0 IRE slide from the break in slides the screen is extremely black. But I almost never see that level of black when watching programs on the aspect bars or even when there is a black screen before the real content starts or when changing channels. It is always a much lighter grey-black. Except occasionally like when I was watching the Hurt Locker DVD today. On one scene in particular it was totally black and all of a sudden the TV decided to "turn off" the picture and it became that very black that I see on the 0 IRE slide.

Is this a problem with my set or something everyone has?
post #4808 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by claymanhb View Post

58b650
Anyone know if this is normal. Horizontal banding(almost like a really high ratio IE 3.50:1 letterbox) close to the middle.

Also a pink hue on the middle-right on white screens.

Also a darker band on the right third of most solid screens.

I have 100+ hours on it and one more week to return. Barely noticeable unless viewing an almost completely white screen.

I have the same horizontal band in the middle of white screens and the vertical darker band on the right side of dark screens. I never notice the horizontal band with programs but I do notice the dark band on very dark scenes. I have not seen the pink hue.
post #4809 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gib View Post

ClarkeBar - I'm not really sure what you mean by "No, that very dark screen, as you already know, is not 0 IRE" and "That is no signal display below set threshold of Brightness, in common parlance. " When I view the 0 IRE slide from the break in slides the screen is extremely black. But I almost never see that level of black when watching programs on the aspect bars or even when there is a black screen before the real content starts or when changing channels. It is always a much lighter grey-black. Except occasionally like when I was watching the Hurt Locker DVD today. On one scene in particular it was totally black and all of a sudden the TV decided to "turn off" the picture and it became that very black that I see on the 0 IRE slide.

Is this a problem with my set or something everyone has?

I'm sorry for not being more clear. Sometimes when you run test screens that include 0 IRE, it is possible to not have actual 0 IRE appear onscreen. You simply get a black screen representing no visible input. It is deceptive because you see black onscreen where you expect to see 0 IRE. But, if you were to measure that screen it would not give a value. Actual 0 IRE can fail to show because Brightness needs adjusting. Usually 1-2 clicks upwards will solve the issue, unless your Brightness is seriously low. It sounds to me from your post that is what is being described. I don't know if the slides you are using have IRE in consecutive 1 or 5 or 10% gradients or not. If not, here is a simple test: simply put up the 0 IRE screen from your slide and let it settle for a few seconds. Then hit the Mute button putting the icon onscreen and see if it changes the level of background black. If it does, then you need to adjust your Brightness in order to see 0 IRE properly. When Brightness is properly set, even pulling up the full menu will not affect background black. While the break-in slides may be fine, I still recommend getting a proper test disc because some issues are hard to catch without the right material.

The black aspect ratio bars are the true display of MLL. On the B650 they will darken over a normal 2 hour movie to .008. This is about as dark as black can get on this set with signal. Anything blacker than that does not represent visible signal.

FYI, my 2 favorite commercials for black right now are the Lincoln MKS at the crossroads and the new one by Direct TV. Both are soooooooooooooo black.
post #4810 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gib View Post

I have the same horizontal band in the middle of white screens and the vertical darker band on the right side of dark screens. I never notice the horizontal band with programs but I do notice the dark band on very dark scenes. I have not seen the pink hue.

I went to the store today and popped in my flash drive on the demo and it had the same horizontal band as well as the vertical band. No pink hue though. The pink is the least noticeable of the three so I think I'll keep it and if it gets worse, I'll call samsung.
post #4811 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by claymanhb View Post

I went to the store today and popped in my flash drive on the demo and it had the same horizontal band as well as the vertical band. No pink hue though. The pink is the least noticeable of the three so I think I'll keep it and if it gets worse, I'll call samsung.

The pink you're seeing is probably the glare coating.
post #4812 of 5062
Here is my WIP...
58B650 is perfect!
Work
In
Progress
;-p
LL
post #4813 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22v10 View Post

Here is my WIP...
58B650 is perfect!
Work
In
Progress
;-p

once you take care of that stain on the floor in front of the center speaker stand you'll be good to go
post #4814 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22v10 View Post

Here is my WIP...
58B650 is perfect!
Work
In
Progress
;-p

Do you seriously have your XBOX 360 sitting on a subwoofer?
post #4815 of 5062
when i adjust my contrast i notice a lot of discoloration, whatever test pattern im using turns yellow, i know most people on here have their contrast in the 90's but the yellowing seems to go away when i set mine in the 70s. anyone have any info about this???
post #4816 of 5062
Are you using any level of Dynamic Contrast in your settings?

If so, it does introduce a color shift somewhat yellowish. I use it with Standard mode but only with TV viewing and offset it with reduced regular Contrast anywhere from 65-85.

Warm2 also will give a yellowish tint which is why I often use Warm 1 with reworked color.
post #4817 of 5062
What I have been trying to figure out is what is the difference between the normal black and the extremely dark black where the screen almost seems to turn off. The normal black that I see most of the time on all black screens is really dark gray in a dark room and gives off enough light that I can read if I go close to the screen. That extremelly dark black only occurs sometimes like when viewing the 000000 slide from the break in slides that many people use on this forum.

After reading some more about IRE, is the normal black actually 7.5 IRE which is black for NTSE and the extremely dark black is 0 IRE (or blank)? Why doesn't the TV use the extremely dark black for "black" all of the time.
post #4818 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22v10 View Post

Here is my WIP...
58B650 is perfect!
Work
In
Progress
;-p

How high is your set mounted on the wall? How long have you had it there, and has it caused any eye or neck strain watching at that level?

I just mounted mine, and its a little bit higher than I'd prefer (for childproofing and b/c there were electrical wires running in my prefered location). When I'm seated the bottom of the bezel is about at eye height. I'm trying to get used to it, but I keep thinking about trying to lower it approx. 6".

The tradeoff would be that at the current height my center channel would be perfectly at ear level.
post #4819 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeBar View Post

Are you using any level of Dynamic Contrast in your settings?

If so, it does introduce a color shift somewhat yellowish. I use it with Standard mode but only with TV viewing and offset it with reduced regular Contrast anywhere from 65-85.

Warm2 also will give a yellowish tint which is why I often use Warm 1 with reworked color.

i dont have dynamic contrast on, but i do use warm2. i ll give your warm1 option a try. oh, and i also i wanted to ask you about the collective settings chart. is it just various settings by various forum members? and how do you calibrate custom color and or white balance?
post #4820 of 5062
Any reason a laptop with HDMI out connected to the television would show darker blacks consistently and without rise, where as with any other device such as a PS3 it would take an hour or two to reach those levels JUST on the black bars?

It's weird, but I've been using my laptop to run Netflix the past few nights and immediately upon connecting it, on a 0 IRE slide the blacks are as dark as my black bars when watching the PS3 for a couple hours.
post #4821 of 5062
Even though keeping contrast out of the 90's seems to keep my blacks from rising to terrible levels, I'm still seeing nights where my black levels are better than others for no good reason. Take tonight, for example. My black levels appear noticeably better, and I've changed nothing. If black levels are normally a .012, then I'd say they look like .008 tonight, all night.
post #4822 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

Even though keeping contrast out of the 90's seems to keep my blacks from rising to terrible levels, I'm still seeing nights where my black levels are better than others for no good reason. Take tonight, for example. My black levels appear noticeably better, and I've changed nothing. If black levels are normally a .012, then I'd say they look like .008 tonight, all night.

Maybe it's temperature related?
post #4823 of 5062
I had the same issue with my first plasma, a Zenith EDTV. To get anything black looking I had to keep Contrast low (scale 1-100, I used 65-75) and Brightness (same scale, I used 35-40) as well. Doing this helped to cut down on the residual Luminance level of black. This was for TV viewing through Cablecard (tuner) only. Every other input had it's own calibrated levels, usually somewhat higher.

I am finding that, with TV viewing, the same applies with the B650, at least through Component input, which I prefer over HDMI for this. Brightness is somewhat higher (always in the low-mid 40s) for better shadow detail but Contrast looks very good, no higher than 75-88 or so, sometimes even down to 65 depending on input and other settings like DC, which I use on Low with Standard for some TV.

I have also verified another thing. Luminance fade is roughly .00075fL per 5 minutes onscreen with constant content like ratio bars, at least for the first 1/2 hour or so. If I slap a meter on a 0 IRE screen with no warm up for either piece of equipment and no resting period of luminance fade, I am likely to get a black level around .015-.016fL depending on previous screens. So take that as an average starting BL with most usage. Normally I use a 1/2 hour warm up and the level is pretty constant at .0115-.012fL. after that for 0 IRE. If I then set the meter to infinite readings the drop in level slows considerably to .008fL over roughly 2 hours. I haven't taken it beyond this point but should just out of curiousity. Perhaps I'll do that today, although it will still only be applicable to the bars. It seems to me though that the rate of stabilization is improving with usage and is less affected by previous luminance.

I think some folks misunderstand that Black level is constantly changing with signal, though not wildly so. The .012 at 0 IRE that I measure follows a warm-up protocol but does not include any black tenting to shut out ambient light. People can measure without a warm-up protocol but the readings can be all over the map depending on previous content onscreen, if not using a direct signal generator. So the MLL that is stated for any set is really only indicative of the best case scenario for such a measurement and is really highly dependent on protocol, as well as meter sensitivity. It may in fact not be the lowest or absolute MLL the set is capable of but you have to start somewhere. The moving average of Black level however for any set will not be anything near the given MLL. So even Pioneer owners have grey blacks at times, although their ratio bars will always be the blackest you will likely ever see. Anything at .001fL or lower will blend into the bezel in short order.

I am approaching 1K hours. This may be integral to the changes I am seeing onscreen with Blacks appearing more Black overall and less gray. It may also be indicative of Spanbauer's observations, as he is likely to also have reached a milestone or two in hours usage having been an owner a good bit longer than me, I suspect.
post #4824 of 5062
Aeonus,

Sounds like the PS3 is not sending the right level of black and the laptop is. I don't own a PS3 so am unfamiliar with it's settings.
post #4825 of 5062
ceaverill,

I believe the charts are indicative of informal settings but a few may be the results of calibrations. Without notations it is an unknown.

To adjust color properly you need a decent meter and calibration software at a minimum. But even then, getting the secondaries can be somewhat tricky so I use the color listings from column 10 with pretty good results. Because I like to use both Warm 1 and 2 at times, they each need some tweaking. In the WB I basically lessen the Blue tone for Warm 1 and reduce the yellowing for Warm 2. When skin tones are proper I am usually satisfied. I also tend to reduce color to the low 40's. This is for Movie Mode and basically TV viewing through Component, which I prefer to HDMI.

For DVD/BluRay certainly, or even TV films, I don't hestitate to watch with Dynamic Contrast at some level. Heresy, I know, but being able to punch up the already stellar Avatar is just off the charts! DC on these panels is really meant for film sources and while the effect is not for everyone, I kinda like it at times, always remembering to reduce normal Contrast. YMMV.
post #4826 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeBar View Post

ceaverill,

I believe the charts are indicative of informal settings but a few may be the results of calibrations. Without notations it is an unknown.

To adjust color properly you need a decent meter and calibration software at a minimum. But even then, getting the secondaries can be somewhat tricky so I use the color listings from column 10 with pretty good results. Because I like to use both Warm 1 and 2 at times, they each need some tweaking. In the WB I basically lessen the Blue tone for Warm 1 and reduce the yellowing for Warm 2. When skin tones are proper I am usually satisfied. I also tend to reduce color to the low 40's. This is for Movie Mode and basically TV viewing through Component, which I prefer to HDMI.

For DVD/BluRay certainly, or even TV films, I don't hestitate to watch with Dynamic Contrast at some level. Heresy, I know, but being able to punch up the already stellar Avatar is just off the charts! DC on these panels is really meant for film sources and while the effect is not for everyone, I kinda like it at times, always remembering to reduce normal Contrast. YMMV.

no harm in using the flashy features once in a while, I think. For instance, I punch up the picture for football parties, etc.
post #4827 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet396 View Post

no harm in using the flashy features once in a while, I think. For instance, I punch up the picture for football parties, etc.

Ain't it the truth?

ceaverill,

Sorry I neglected to address your question more fully about how to dial in the color. I left out the budget way which is to buy a copy of DVE which has the better RGB filter card. By better I mean it is not flawed in color value like the early Avia disc filters. Or you can source the filters online. Also download and burn the AVS HD 709 disc available in the Display calibration forum on this site. It has a very nice screen of flashing bars which will let you fine tune the RGB as well as the Yellow, Cyan and Magenta using Custom. Some of the necessary color items are available in other screens on other discs and even on the DVE disc but this keeps it tidy.

Paul
post #4828 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet396 View Post

once you take care of that stain on the floor in front of the center speaker stand you'll be good to go

Oh' no,no...no
Six Lombardi's for the right to have that stain baby...

-Rhythmic
My set it wall mounted with the bottom bezel measuring 45.25 " inches from the floor. It took lots of trial and error in getting it just right The wall mount is a fully articulating type as well as very adjustable and super solid. I helped a friend mount his 65B850 on the same mount. So I knew mine would work.

-XFistsClenchedX
Relax man, My CoDMW2 Xbox360 elite was just posing for the picture...

anywho...here is another LQQK angle.. and a pic b4 I put the wall mounted shelf up and drilled the holes..I'm still shaking from the Hamm..Eer..DRr.illlL.
LL
LL
LL
LL
post #4829 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeBar View Post

Aeonus,

Sounds like the PS3 is not sending the right level of black and the laptop is. I don't own a PS3 so am unfamiliar with it's settings.

That's whats weird, it makes no sense.

My PS3 is set to RGB limited, and my television set to HDMI low.

Same with my laptop.

Oh and Spanbeauer, I've noticed the same thing in regards to inconsistent black levels. I think it may be temperature related.
post #4830 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22v10 View Post

Oh' no,no...no
Six Lombardi's for the right to have that stain baby...

-Rhythmic
My set it wall mounted with the bottom bezel measuring 45.25 " inches from the floor. It took lots of trial and error in getting it just right The wall mount is a fully articulating type as well as very adjustable and super solid. I helped a friend mount his 65B850 on the same mount. So I knew mine would work.

-XFistsClenchedX
Relax man, My CoDMW2 Xbox360 elite was just posing for the picture...

anywho...here is another LQQK angle.. and a pic b4 I put the wall mounted shelf up and drilled the holes..I'm still shaking from the Hamm..Eer..DRr.illlL.

How far away do you sit? My bottom bezel is about 38" from the floor, but I sit about 7' away. I'm starting to get adjusted to the set being higher, but I can't stop thinking that about 6" lower would be perfect. I also have a fully articulating mount. Its only been mounted for about a week though.

So, I guess yours being 42.25" high doesn't bother you at all?
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