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Samsung PN5xB650 Owner Thread - Page 165

post #4921 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

I think your remote is on the fritz. Take the batteries out so it can't possibly interfere with the tv, then try using just the controls on the lower right of the television for a day and see how it goes.

If I take my batteries out, it keeps acting up.
post #4922 of 5062
I am currently with Time Warner cable but would like to switch to satellite. I have split the cable so that I have a cable coming directly from the wall into the TV. This allows me to use the PIP function while watching a blu-ray via HDMI. Can I maintain this PIP function with a satellite box?
post #4923 of 5062
Like you, I can only get PIP to work with either antenna or cable in. I have Comcast. Luckily I get well over a hundred digital band channels simply using the cable as antenna so PIP can be quite workable at times. Making a channel listing is a big pain though and I still haven't done it. But unless your satellite box has an RF out I don't know if it will work.
post #4924 of 5062
I've been an owner of a PN50B650 since last September. Overall it's been great, but there are a few issues that still bother me a bit and I thought I'd ask before my warranty expires next month.

1) When watching football games, the green grass sometimes "shifts" in tone, like it can't decide what color of green to settle on. it's only occasionally and usually only when the camera is still, like before a play begins. This effect can be seen on a variety of channels/broadcasts. It is also is noticeable when watching certain animated shows, usually a pale skin tone might shift in tone a bit before settling. I actually had a service man come look at this a few days ago but really wasn't able to replicate it when I tried to (though I only tried with one game), but they had already ordered a new main board and just swapped it out for the hell of it. When he left I immediately found it to still be happening, so I tried disconnecting the cable box (was hooked up via HDMI) and tried it with component cables which seemed to lessen the effect, but not 100% eliminate it. However, it is much better than it was. I have the color settings on custom, though changing it between auto or custom or native never seemed to fix it before. It is a problem that bothers me but others tend to not notice.

2) I noticed when the service man was here that the model number on the service menu was listed at PN55b650 instead of pn50b650. I didn't say anything at the time (should have), but is that normal? I admit when I first purchased the TV I accessed the service menu but I don't think I changed anything at all, it freaked me out so I just got out of the menu. To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a pn55b650, just 50 and 58. Could I have accidentally switched this (or maybe this error was built in)?

3) This is probably related to the first issue, but when cinema smooth is on, in addition to the increased brightness (the CS "glitch") that everyone seems to experience, certain dark scenes fluctuate rapidly in brightness levels. turning off CS stops the rapid fluctuations, but even in normal mode I sometimes encounter this (albeit on a much more subtle scale) when watching dark blu rays. I have all the extra "enhancement" features turned off and it is in Movie mode.

I have searched much of this thread but I admit I haven't been able to read all 150+ pages, so I apologize if this was already covered. I'm curious if maybe the problems with #1 are just due to the HDMI cable, it wasn't very expensive but I was under the impression that all HDMI cables pretty much transmit the same quality of signal. Or maybe even the service menu listing the model as pn55 instead of pn50. I don't want to go back into the service menu and try to "switch it" (if it's even possible) without checking to see first. I really appreciate the help!
post #4925 of 5062
I think the color field settling you see is related to detail resolution of the processing. Anything with grain to it like grass or even astroturf has both a uniform and non-uniform pattern depending on view. The processing shows one and when a camera angle changes or shifts with movement it can change...so you can see slight color shifting. I see this kind of thing all the time with all sets, even Pios. You may also have your color setting too high as some of this artifacting can be related to that. Color field noise has different ways of artifacting besides swirling dots.

I think you may have misread the model type as it is either listed improperly as an LCD model (not PN) if the 55 part is correct or you misread that part. It would be worth a trip back to the service menu just to verify. It is very easy to navigate and nothing will change unless you toggle it and then exit the SM without toggling it back.

If you search this thread for 'Service manual' you will find websites that list it online. Download a copy and you never have to fear SM entry again. Just be sure to make a copy of your User settings before entering the SM as it will change them to factory defaults when you leave. Why Sammy and others do this is beyond me? My 2005 42" Zenith ED has better menu access and doesn't reset User settings every time you enter/exit. Just stupid.

EDIT: Here you go---

http://www.4shared.com/document/tB4t...ChassisF6.html

It covers both 50" and 58" sizes.
post #4926 of 5062
Thanks so much for the link - I'll check this out this weekend and let you know what it says! Appreciate the help!
post #4927 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamesPlissken View Post

I've been an owner of a PN50B650 since last September. Overall it's been great, but there are a few issues that still bother me a bit and I thought I'd ask before my warranty expires next month.

1) When watching football games, the green grass sometimes "shifts" in tone, like it can't decide what color of green to settle on. it's only occasionally and usually only when the camera is still, like before a play begins. This effect can be seen on a variety of channels/broadcasts. It is also is noticeable when watching certain animated shows, usually a pale skin tone might shift in tone a bit before settling. I actually had a service man come look at this a few days ago but really wasn't able to replicate it when I tried to (though I only tried with one game), but they had already ordered a new main board and just swapped it out for the hell of it. When he left I immediately found it to still be happening, so I tried disconnecting the cable box (was hooked up via HDMI) and tried it with component cables which seemed to lessen the effect, but not 100% eliminate it. However, it is much better than it was. I have the color settings on custom, though changing it between auto or custom or native never seemed to fix it before. It is a problem that bothers me but others tend to not notice.

2) I noticed when the service man was here that the model number on the service menu was listed at PN55b650 instead of pn50b650. I didn't say anything at the time (should have), but is that normal? I admit when I first purchased the TV I accessed the service menu but I don't think I changed anything at all, it freaked me out so I just got out of the menu. To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a pn55b650, just 50 and 58. Could I have accidentally switched this (or maybe this error was built in)?

3) This is probably related to the first issue, but when cinema smooth is on, in addition to the increased brightness (the CS "glitch") that everyone seems to experience, certain dark scenes fluctuate rapidly in brightness levels. turning off CS stops the rapid fluctuations, but even in normal mode I sometimes encounter this (albeit on a much more subtle scale) when watching dark blu rays. I have all the extra "enhancement" features turned off and it is in Movie mode.

I have searched much of this thread but I admit I haven't been able to read all 150+ pages, so I apologize if this was already covered. I'm curious if maybe the problems with #1 are just due to the HDMI cable, it wasn't very expensive but I was under the impression that all HDMI cables pretty much transmit the same quality of signal. Or maybe even the service menu listing the model as pn55 instead of pn50. I don't want to go back into the service menu and try to "switch it" (if it's even possible) without checking to see first. I really appreciate the help!

I've seen #1 on my set. It used to bother me a lot more than it does now - all the other excellent picture qualities really make up for the occasional inconvenience.
post #4928 of 5062
Im running a custom color space for game mode but for movie mode I had it set on Native (by default) with Warm 2 and the rest of Toms suggestions. Is Native not optimal? When is Native ever used btw? Tom H doesnt mention color space on his website so what do you guys recommend for movie mode? Native looks significantly different from the other two options, especially in the greens.

Edit: Sorry forgot to mention. I assume every panel has those horizontal bands running through the screen right? Really, they are only visible in very light colors (whites, greys).
post #4929 of 5062
I have a vertical black band about 2-3 inches wide about 1/4 of the way from the right edge. It is obvious on all black screens since it is noticeably blacker than the rest of the screen. I also notice it with real programming when there is a very dark scene. Does anyone else have this issue? Does it sound like something Samsung would repair?

I have to say I like the picture on the tv except the black level which I expected to be better. With no lights the screen really glows when displaying black and looks gray except the darker bar. I feel the black level is worse than my a650 LCD and because of the black band has more unevenness on a black screen than my LCD, which are supposed to be plagued with clouding and flashlighting.

I am not running in dynamic or anything. I have movie mode, warm 2, 80 contrast and 45 brightness. No dynamic contrast or other auto features on.
post #4930 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1080pee View Post


Edit: Sorry forgot to mention. I assume every panel has those horizontal bands running through the screen right? Really, they are only visible in very light colors (whites, greys).

I'm assuming you are referring to line bleed. If so, yes, Samsung has more than it's share of horizontal line bleed. Pioneer is the best at reducing it.
Usually I don't see it with content but with menus it's everywhere. The only time it is really bad with content is when there is more than one superimposed onscreen logo/info image. AMC does this quite a lot with something on both sides at the bottom from time to time. Then the bleed goes right across the actual picture image.
post #4931 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gib View Post

I have a vertical black band about 2-3 inches wide about 1/4 of the way from the right edge. It is obvious on all black screens since it is noticeably blacker than the rest of the screen. I also notice it with real programming when there is a very dark scene. Does anyone else have this issue? Does it sound like something Samsung would repair?

I have to say I like the picture on the tv except the black level which I expected to be better. With no lights the screen really glows when displaying black and looks gray except the darker bar. I feel the black level is worse than my a650 LCD and because of the black band has more unevenness on a black screen than my LCD, which are supposed to be plagued with clouding and flashlighting.

I am not running in dynamic or anything. I have movie mode, warm 2, 80 contrast and 45 brightness. No dynamic contrast or other auto features on.

Yes, many have the exact same band in the exact same location. Seems to be darker with some, lighter with others ... but always darker than the background level of black. If you look at the service manual, you will see it correlates to a buffer area. Whether switching out the corresponding buffer board would fix the issue I don't know. You could give them a call. If you do decide to pursue repair, please let this board know what happened as I'm sure many are interested.

As to black level, your A650 may well be blacker than your B650 as what you describe with the B650 doesn't sound right. On my set, when you turn it on, the set always goes to 0 IRE (lowest black with signal) and the band is only slightly visible and then on to content. Used to be darker when it was newer but it seems to have faded and is much more difficult to make out now unless in a completely dark room. Since the band was darker and it now blends much better, either it has faded or the background black is darker now. Flip a coin.

As to your set, perhaps your Brightness is still too high? Try lowering a click at a time to see if there's any reduction in the visibility of the band. Are you using a calibration disc or simply eyeballing it? You need a disc with 0 IRE.
post #4932 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeBar View Post

I'm assuming you are referring to line bleed. If so, yes, Samsung has more than it's share of horizontal line bleed. Pioneer is the best at reducing it.
Usually I don't see it with content but with menus it's everywhere. The only time it is really bad with content is when there is more than one superimposed onscreen logo/info image. AMC does this quite a lot with something on both sides at the bottom from time to time. Then the bleed goes right across the actual picture image.

No, not horizontal line bleed. Its hard to describe but lets say you have a completely white picture on screen, it will look a little "dirty" with discoloration. It almost looks like subtle image retention, if you were watching content with horizontal bars across the screen. Not a big deal but I've seen it on two other sets.

I don't have that vertical band that is mentioned above thankfully. But I did notice the 58 inch model has noticeably better blacks. Does that tend to happen within the same models for other manufacturers? I was a little disappointed because I was looking at the 58" at the store and was told the 50" would have the same black level. Guess I should have researched a bit more.

Oh and can someone shed some light on "Native" color space. When is it recommended to use?
post #4933 of 5062
Well, it appears the horizontal black lines on my set were not a board-related issue. The repair guys came out today and replaced the board; didn't fix it. So it looks like a panel replacement is in order. Luckily it's still under warranty, or else $1k. Ouch.
post #4934 of 5062
Bought an el cheapo colour meter and had a go at calibrating my set, always found Warm 2 way too yellow for my liking but having done the calibration on my set now, I found that it's actually really pleasing, maybe my colours were off with other peoples settings. Anyway this isn't perfect, as I said I did it myself with my own colour meter and it was my first go, but here are the settings;

Mode: Movie
Cell: 10
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 50
Sharpness: 10
Colour: 50
Tint: G53/R47

Advanced Menu

Black Tone: Off
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Gamma: 0
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off
xvYC: Off

Colour;
Red: 54 / 9 / 4
Green: 0 / 50 / 4
Blue: 0 / 5 / 50
Yellow: 29 / 20 / 7
Cyan: 40 / 50 / 46
Magenta: 30 / 12 / 59

White Balance:

R-Offset: 24
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 25
R-Gain: 19
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 29

Picture Options;

Colour Tone: Warm 2
Size: Screen Fit
Digital NR - Off

I'd take pictures but my camera is crap.
post #4935 of 5062
Warm2 is always too yellow at first because grayscale is off. Same with all of the other modes. Once any Color/Temp option is calibrated for grayscale as best you can, they look much better. Most of them still too Blue of course, except for Warm3, but better. Warm2 does remain the best and most accurate overall.

Panny had/has a THX mode that was yellow right out of the box as well. How something like that gets THX approval is beyond me. Apparently just more marketing payola. I prefer the approach Sammy has taken which is to eschew any doo-dads like that and concentrate on the innate color accuracy. Most Sammys using Warm2 will not need much tweaking in the primaries. It's the secondaries that usually throw things off.
post #4936 of 5062
Generally when I see posted settings, Im seeing cell light =10, and contrast in the 90-95 neighborhood. I keep going back and forth between cell 10/contrast 65, or cell 8/contrast 75. I tried setting contrast at 95 once, but after a few minutes had to tone it down as I felt it was searing my eyeballs. For the record, I do use Warm 1, which seems to brighten the over Warm 2(the more popular option).
post #4937 of 5062
sadmaker,

Are you fully calibrating with software and meter? Or are you tweaking to eyeball preference? Depending on input type, HDMI or Component, my Contrast is also usually lower than most postings I see on this board, although with Component, less so. And certainly any usage of DC requires a decent reduction in normal Contrast levels as well.

Usually high Contrast leads to blooming but I don't see any of that with the Sammys. White level is very consistent. For me the problem with higher normal Contrast is the effect it has on Gamma. I have never been able to keep Contrast anywhere near 90-100 and not have Gamma dip precipitously past 50-60 IRE. The only way I can bring gamma in line is to reduce Contrast down to the 60's-70's, depending on other factors.

So it always intrigues me how some of the review sites achieve some of the recommended settings they post after calibration.
post #4938 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeBar View Post

sadmaker,

Are you fully calibrating with software and meter? Or are you tweaking to eyeball preference? Depending on input type, HDMI or Component, my Contrast is also usually lower than most postings I see on this board, although with Component, less so. And certainly any usage of DC requires a decent reduction in normal Contrast levels as well.

Usually high Contrast leads to blooming but I don't see any of that with the Sammys. White level is very consistent. For me the problem with higher normal Contrast is the effect it has on Gamma. I have never been able to keep Contrast anywhere near 90-100 and not have Gamma dip precipitously past 50-60 IRE. The only way I can bring bring gamma in line is to reduce Contrast down to the 60's-70's, depending on other factors.

So it always intrigues me how some of the review sites achieve some of the recommended settings they post after calibration.

I'm just eyeballing. I did have a calibrated '09 Panny S1, so I'm kind of assuming I've just gotten accustomed to a picture that isnt as bright.
post #4939 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

The optical out on the TV does not support more than 2 channels. Kinda sucks, I know.

What about if its an HD channel (from my local cable provider) using the qam tuner off of the coaxial connection? The signal is 5.1 for HD channels. Would the optical only output stereo still? I've always wondered this.

Just tested this. 5.1 sound if the channel is HD off of the coaxial connection.
post #4940 of 5062
So I just got one of these bad boys. I love it. It looks amazing. Only gripe I have is when its first on, the black areas have dancing greens speckles. I'm not sure if thats normal, but it goes away after a while. Also buzzing is noticeable, so I've got someone coming out to take a look at it for both issues.

Has anyone had good luck with the Internet@TV features? The performance is extremely sluggish so I don't even like using it. I have a 10 Mbps down connection hardwired to the TV, so I know it's not an internet speed problem. Color performance is unreal, and I was really pleasantly surprised with the black levels. I am coming from a 42" Toshiba 650U series though.

Also in case anyone is still looking for one of these, they have them on Amazon warehouse deals for a pretty good price. I was kind of weary, but I'd had good luck with it so far.
post #4941 of 5062
If you're seeing speckles then likely the Contrast/Brightness needs adjusting ... or Sharpness is too high.

Yes, the internet stuff is slow. I don't mind because I didn't buy it for this kind of application.
post #4942 of 5062
ive been using the settings from that general list (line 10) which I like for movies. are there any setting for brighter more colorful broadcast....like, say football?
post #4943 of 5062
Well, after being in the shop a couple days, my TV is now fitted with a replacement panel and working good.

Now to keep my settings toned down and break it in all over again...
post #4944 of 5062
Being a previous B650 owner i wondered if anyonenis able to assist me here with the the replacement set Samsung gave me, the PS50C6500. Noticred a couple of problems.

First off the anti glare coating looks like someones used their fingers to apply it, its very uneven.

Secondly i have an issue similar to backlight bleed lcds suffer from, effecting the top left corner of the screen, only really noticable when watching letter box movies.

Thirdly, and perhaps the most serious issue, although not obvious most of the time, is that i have very faint vertical bars, evenly spaced all across the screen. These are most apparent on light backgrounds, or when watching sports with fast panning. There are also a couple of faint horizontal bars. These bars are noticeable even when thr tv's turned off even though you really have to look for them. I read somewhere its a build fault, however because theyre not that obvious im wondering whether samsung will replace this set?

Overall, given the above do i have a valid case to return the tv? Opions appreciated, oh and by the the way the bars mentionednin point 3 are not due to burn in or ir.

Cheers people.

All the best

Neil
post #4945 of 5062
Return/exchange immediately. You do not have to put up with these issues.

Last March I decided to keep a set ordered from Vanns out in Montana which had a small issue with magenta coloring at the very center bottom above the pedestal stand which only showed up on certain values of white. I believe it is associated with the internal speakers or electronics shielding and certainly not pink screen. But the issue is now virtually non-existent. Multiple issues IMO are a no-go however.
post #4946 of 5062
Right, this is getting annoying.

I noticed something right away about the new replacement panel for my TV. It acted funny...when doing screen scroll, greenish bars would show up in the white of the scroll, moving along with it.

Not to mention when I go through the menu, the otherwise yellow bars around the menu selections you make turn to green. Sometimes in bright colorful scenes it seems grainy. I chocked this up to break-in settings, low on everything.

Strange thing is, when the TV first starts up, the green is not there on menu selections or in the scrolling. After a couple minutes warm up, it appears.

Not to mention when any menu is open, it creates faded lines across the screen. Very odd indeed.

Could this be the panel, or a voltage issue, something that could be tweaked in the service menu myself, or...? Should I just call the TV place back and tell them it's messed up?
post #4947 of 5062
Anyone know how to get Samsung to repair or replace under warranty?

I've had some ongoing flakiness with my PN50B650. Starting at least 6 weeks ago it intermittently wouldn't power up properly: it clicks to come out of standby, fails to power, clicks to turn off repeats into an endless loop. Unplugging power and plugging it in doesn't help, for it has the same behavior if you try to power again. At first it sometimes operated after letting it sit for many hours or overnight. The set would immediately present store demo model if it recovered. Now it has stopped recovering at all and loops even if you try days later.

I called Samsung on 9/6 and took off work on the service date (9/10) because their service contractor didn't assign any set appointment ("we can come anytime on 9/10 and will inform you what time at 8am that day"). The service tech did call at 8am on 9/10 to set the actual time. After questioning regarding the problem, he realized he didn't get complete info from his dispatcher and didn't have the proper part: the power control board. The tech consequently didn't come to service and asked me to call local service center and reschedule.

I had to call to chase the local service center on 9/13. The tech comes back on 9/16 with an "overnighted" part and installs it. The TV powers up once but exhibits bad picture noise and grainy picture quality. After he re-inspects the internals the set won't power on again. It's clearly a bad replacement power control board.

I'm frustrated and am not convinced their third scheduled appointment, 9/18, will resolve my problem (batting 0/2 thus far). I called Samsung support, was boosted up to Executive Customer support, explained my story again and again, and was basically told they "have to" try and service again. I asked them to replace the set (let them debug) and they refused.

A supervisor to this person answered the same way. I made it clear that it wasn't acceptable to take 3 house calls to maybe resolve an issue or to begin to contemplate a replacement (their quoted policy). I straightly said that I wouldn't treat a customer in this manner, and I would contact the BBB or my credit card company. Hoped that might get them to move, but they were obstinate.

Am I unreasonable to be asking for a replacement set? I'm out almost two weeks of use and two days of work with no end in sight. Who do I need to speak with/complain to get movement?

I've posted my tribulations here, but perhaps doing the same in Cnet forums, on Samsung forums, and on Twitter is a good idea? I hear that Samsung monitors social media in particular.

All I want is a working TV without any more wasted time. This is the only set in my house and I couldn't watch the end of the US Open or now two weeks of football.
post #4948 of 5062
Sorry for your troubles. I understand the process can be a royal PITA. Most times these crapshoots work out. Sometimes they don't.

If the Sammy policy is 3 tries before resolution compensation, then that's what it is. Plenty of folks here have reported satisfactory resolutions afterwards however.
post #4949 of 5062
Well 0/3. Their repairs induced serious noise (purple pixel band near the top). Now the tech wants to replace the panel, which of course he doesn't have.

Judging by my support experience thus far, I'm going to have to fight Samsung yet again.
post #4950 of 5062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ndaa1975 View Post

There are also a couple of faint horizontal bars. These bars are noticeable even when thr tv's turned off even though you really have to look for them. I read somewhere its a build fault, however because theyre not that obvious im wondering whether samsung will replace this set?


I'm pretty sure every B650 has this problem, skimming through the jpegs in this thread, I've found two pictures of people showing this off (that I have as well obviously).



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=177252&d=1275699877


I am curious to know if the majority, minority or ANY other plasma model has these kind of imperfections on the screen. Playing a lot of NHL makes this a little distracting. My set is pretty close to those pics but has an even darker/pinkish hue line near the top.
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