Actiontec MI424WR - a cheap MoCA bridge for all! - Page 25

Turned out the hardest part was figuring out which wire in the junction box was which!

I spent what felt like days (but was just several sessions of a few hours each starting yesterday or the day before) on a wild goose chase, taking the diplexers out of the path, jumpering the drop to the basement directly to the drop to my 2nd floor apartment (I thought!), until I traced the spaghetti in the junction box again and realized that what I thought was the line to my apartment was not.

The correct line determined, I put the other two floors on one 2 way splitter (improving their levels from the -7db they had been at with the 3-way jack that had been there to -3.5db now) and jumpered together my two lines, with the lines going directly to the MoCA units. That lit up the LAN Coax light on each box! Then I put the diplexer back into the circuit in the theater - the light came on anyway.

Did the same upstairs - MoCA connected fine through the diplexers.

Last step was to put my two lines onto a standard 2-way splitter fed by my drop from the pole.

I was still able to log into the box in the basement from upstairs, so - from the second floor - I turned on security on the Coax bridge connection in the theater box in the basement. I verified that, as a result, I couldn't get into it. (The coax connection on the local box was marked as "Down.")

Then I turned on the same password on the Coax bridge connection on the local box, power cycled it, and it connected to the basement again.

Typing the LAN address of the basement MoCA box into my upstairs browser brings up its login page as soon as I hit Enter.

Out of curiosity, I ran a speed test on my Comcast Xfinity connection, since the line to my apartment was now -3.5db down from what it had been - it hadn't been split at all before. No apparent slowdown - I just got 24.36 Mbps down, 3.75 Mbps up.

Time to configure my Roku's and Blu-ray player's internet connections!

Thank you xnappo for showing the way! BTW - my theory in going with cheap splitters is that they probably wouldn't have extreme isolation between the output jacks which might block the MoCA signal. (MicroCenter turned out not to have the $1 splitters, so they gave me a standard $5 splitter instead for the $1 price.)

PS Just measured download speed on my laptop plugged into the theater Actiontec, which was almost as fast as upstairs directly connected to to my main router, which hosts the cable modem's output!

Amazon Prime's 720p DD 5.1 feed of the remastered original Star Trek is rock steady. I watched most of the first half of The Menagerie (the two-parter cobbled together out of the original pilot for the show, with Spock hijacking the Enterprise to take Captain Pike back to Talos IV).

Anyone want to suggest a free 1080 DD 5.1 Roku feed for me to test out? (I don't have a Netflix subscription - and my Roku XDS isn't compatible with Netflix's DD+ feed anyway.)

PPS Finished both halves of The Menagerie. Rock-steady video and audio, and a hell of an emotional show. I'd forgotten how good it was - particularly considering that it was made by putting a frame around recycled material!

While I can download from Speakeasy.net/speedtest at about 24Mbps, doing a file transfer between my two XP Pro SP3 PCs using the ancient pcAnywhere program showed a transfer speed of 1.6 MBps (12.8 Mbps), around half of that. I'm assuming that's because pcA is doing encryption and error-checking. (When transferring updated versions of a large file back and forth using its "Turbo Transfer" feature it's blazingly fast, as it only transfers changes to the file.)

I haven't figgered out how to browse to the laptop through Windows Explorer - I went to My Network Places | Entire Network | Microsoft Windows Network | Workgroup, where I see the laptop but can't get into it.

Any networking gurus here who can show me how - or point me to where I can learn?

Last night, while watching Amazon's stream of the 1 1/2 hour debut episode of Deep Space 9, the stream froze up several times 3/4 of the way through the show, eventually making the Roku reboot itself, after which it played through without incident.

Just found the QoS page in my main router and plugged the Roku's MAC addresses for both its ethernet and wifi adapters into the Device section, giving all traffic to or from the Roku the highest priority. (My main router is an old Linksys WRT54G, so its QoS section is relatively simple and clear - the corresponding page on the Verizon Actiontecs is so complex I left it alone on those.)

I also made sure that all three boxes - the main router and the two Verizon Actiontecs - had OpenDNS' DNS server addresses plugged in, as I had gotten an email from OpenDNS touting an initiative it had entered into with Google to try to route multimedia traffic for which there are multiple mirrors to the nearest site to reduce latency.

To see whether giving the Roku priority has slowed down my main desktop while not watching the Roku (leaving it idling on a program list), I just went to http://www.speedtest.net and ran the test, using the Boston site (I'm in Cambridge). 24.99 Mbps. Not too shabby.

We'll see if I have any such problem streaming video again. Of course, I've yet to find a 1080 feed - everything I've looked at tops out at 720p

I've perused the thread (it is a great one!)

I'm just trying to confirm a few things. I have a MOCA network with a central MCE machine streaming to Xbox 360s. The MCE is connected to a HDHomeRun Prime unit which is working pretty well. I do have problems occasionally with streaming certain channels to the extenders. I think it is mostly cable/splitter related.

Can someone verify what kind of splitter should be coming into the house? I have a PDI 1 input 3 output. I think two of the outputs are -7 and one is -3.x.. The splitter is something like 1-1000mhz. Should this splitter be the more higher range 1-2500mhz?

I plan on adding some diplexers to separate the MOCA devices from the cable TV feeds (in this case I need a couple more db going to the HD Prime unit)

Thanks!
Skip

tronBomb,

Did you modify these registry entries?

TcpWindowSize and GlobalMaxTcpWindowSize

If so, which one? did you set TcpWindowSize to 79000 ?

Skip

Found a free 1080p feed that works with my Roku XDS: a "private channel" called 1080p Showcase. You use your computer's web browser to log in to your account at the roku website, click on the link to add a private channel and type in, as the channel code: 1080p

It then shows up on the Roku as one of your subscribed channels. It's 1080p YouTube material. If you get sound but no video, find the frame rate setting and try toggling it between 24 and 30.

It's stereo, not surround, but the sound quality is not bad, and if your AVR can apply DTS:Neo surround rechanneling it's quite servicable - I keep my AVR set to "DTS:Neo Music," which kicks in whenever the source is not true 5.1 (except for the multichannel analog input from my Blu-ray player, which is unaffected by this). DTS:Neo's "Music" setting sounds more natural to me than the "Cinema" setting, just as DTS:Neo sounds more natural to me than Dolby ProLogic. This is on my old Yamaha - your amp and taste may lead you to a different choice.

EDIT: Tonight I tried toggling between Stereo and DTS:Neo Music and found that, on several sources, the DTS:Neo sounded "pinched" compared to Stereo. Then I tried the AVR's "6 Channel Stereo" setting, which simply duplicates the left and right signals on the surround channels (like in a car stereo!), while putting the info that's the same on the two channels out through the center channel speaker. That spreads the sound around the room without "pinching" the sound, and has now become my default setting for stereo sources.

My QoS prioritizing of the Roku traffic in the master router and insertion of OpenDNS's server addresses in all three routers has worked out the kinks in my video streaming - even Hulu + is now working without hiccups.

Skipdog - I modified GlobalMaxTcpWindowSize to 1M and TcpWindowSize to 79k. I could change the Global to 79k also, I'm just too lazy.

I followed the instructions from post #1 and everything seems to work fine. The only problem I have is that I cannot login to the Verizon router. I set the IP as 192.168.1.100 but I just get a timeout page. Shouldn't I be able to access the router?

I recently learned of Steve Gibson's DNSBench, a free program that tests many domain name servers to find which respond the fastest to your machine. (Info and download link at http://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm)

Some of my own ISP's domain name servers (though not the default ones) were much faster than OpenDNS.

I revisited the website that touts the joint initiative that OpenDNS and Google are running to optimize streaming media and realized that I'm not using any of the media providers working with them, so I plugged in the faster servers from my ISP.

(I initially tried the MIT servers, which are right down the street from me, and tested slightly faster - but they've set them up to refuse to respond to a Roku, and the stream of the MIT radio station refuses access to any machine that gets to it by way of the MIT domain name servers - go figure!)

.100 may be within the DHCP address assignment range of your master router.
Log into your master router and look at its DHCP client list. See if you see the Verizon Actiontec there, and confirm whether .100 is in that range.

If it is, you should change the Verizon box's address. Disconnect the coax from the verizon, power cycle it, and plug a pc into it via ethernet. If you still can't log into it you may have to do a hard reset on it, let it assign your pc an address, log into it and reconfigure it to use an address well below the DHCP range.

For some reason the Actiontec router somehow reverted back to 192.168.1.1. This caused the main router and the Actiontec to fight for the same IP completely screwing everything up. I've rest the Actiontec IP and all is working just fine. This is pretty cool. My Tivo is actually fast now!

My network connection seems to "time out" after a while. I have the adapter connected to a Tivo. Every couple of hours, the Tivo loses it's internet connection and the adapter (router) needs to be restarted. Did I do something wrong? Is there a way to prevent this from happening?

If this is the same box that reverted to 192.168.1.1, it may need a more profound hard reset than normal.

I just finished "repurposing" an old Linksys WRT54g to work as a wireless bridge by replacing its firmware with open-source firmware from the DD-WRT project, which lets the device do lots of tricks not part of the stock firmware, including acting as a repeater or part of a mesh network.

That required starting by doing a deep hard reset where you hold in the reset button continuously for 90 seconds: 30 seconds with power attached, 30 seconds with the power connector detached, and then another 30 seconds with power connected again, after which you power-cycle the device one more time - this is all before going to the menu where you tell the stock firmware to load a firmware update.

The premise is that a standard hard reset may leave settings hanging around that this deeper hard reset gives the device time to clear out.

It's annoying to have to do this but it also reminds me of the behavior of my current AVR, an old Yamaha pre-HDMI unit sold to me for $200 by a neighbor who was moving away, complete with a 5.1 set of Denon speakers. The AVR was not putting any sound out through the left front speaker. I went online and found its manual, and in the back of the manual found the combination button-press to reset it to factory defaults. That brought back the missing channel. I then did all the usual setup tweaks, only to find that channel going missing again. I repeated the reset, and it has worked perfectly ever since, which has been several years now.

So try the 30-30-30 reset process. It can't hurt anything, and might make your box behave more stably.

Thanks for the advice. It's not the same device that had the problem before. It was actually stable for the entire day today. Someone in the VZ forum suggested it may be an issue with the coax speed. I checked the speed and it is "marginal" at 208.1. I ordered a better quality splitter so hopefully that will do the trick.

Are you using diplexers to connect the MOCA boxes to the line? That way, all the high frequencies that MOCA uses go out the "satellite" jack to the MOCA box while the lower frequencies go to the other video/internet/telephone devices. Diplexers look just like regular splitters except that one of the jacks is labeled "Sat" or "Satellite."

If you connect the MOCA boxes through splitters that aren't diplexers, the MOCA signal gets divided between the two branches, throwing away half of the MOCA signal by sending it to devices that don't need it.

I see plenty of 1 x 2 diplexers but I need a 1 x 3 diplexer since I need one output to go to the cable modem, one to my HDTivo and the third to the MOCA box. Does anyone have a good one to suggest? I need this ASAP since the cable guy was here and if I add my 1 x 2 diplexer to the cable my signal strength to my HDTiVo drops to a level where some stations won't play (signal strength too weak).

A diplexer is just a filter that splits a signal into two frequency bands. A tripelxer would split the signal into three frequency bands. I don't think you want one. The moca box gets the high frequency (above 1 GHz) , the Tivo and the cable modem get the low frequency (below 1 GHz). The diplexer just allows both signals to use the same cable.

Can you be more specific as to how you have them connected now? Sounds like you have the high frequency going to your tivo that would cause a weak signal.

The diplexer should be connected to the cable coming from elsewhere. You just need to connect the input of a regular splitter to the normal jack on the diplexer - the MOCA box connects to the satellite jack on the diplexer.

The outputs of the regular splitter would then go to your Tivo and cable modem.

There's nothing special about a 3-way splitter - it's either (a) a cascaded trio of splitters, with what would have been the fourth output instead terminated inside the box with a 75 ohm load - in which case each output is 7db weaker than the input - or (b) two splitters in line, with one output fed to the second splitter and the other going directly out - in which case that direct output would be only 3.5 db weaker than the input.

The setup I recommended above - putting the diplexer first and a splitter on its "normal" output - is essentially like the simpler kind of 3-way splitter, but with less loss, because a diplexer doesn't try to divide the full spectrum between two jacks, giving each a little less than half of everything. Instead, each jack gets most of its part of the spectrum. This way the MOCA box would get most of the high frequency signal, and the TiVo and the cable modem would get almost as strong a signal as if there was only a single splitter.

Comcast put a 1 x 3 splitter in. If I use the splitter the MOCA box doesn't get a signal. If I use the 1 x 2 diplexer I connect one output to the MOCA, the other to the 1 x 3 in order to get one line to the Comcast cable modem and one to the HDTivo. There must be someone who has this same set up - cable box, MOCA & cable modem need a line and the cable modem needs the 'best' cable line. When i use the diplexer and splitter the signal is too weak and several stations become too weak to display. I appreciate any/all feedback.

Put the 1x3 splitter Comcast installed in a drawer - so you can put it back when you move out - and replace it with a standard 1x2 (they're relatively cheap: $5 - $10) attached to the normal (not satellite) output from your diplexer. The loss from a 1x2 splitter is is 3.5db - translated, that means slightly less than half the signal level at each jack.

On the other hand, the loss from a 1x3 splitter is either 7db - less than one-quarter the signal level at each jack - at all three jacks (if it's a cascaded trio of splitters) or 7db at two jacks and 3.5 db at the third.

I put Comcast's 1x3 in a drawer, replaced it with a 1x2, and everything works fine.

To confirm what you said - put a regular 1 x 2 splitter on the cable feed - and then add the diplexer? I need 3 outputs and your post didn't specify how to get there thus this post for clarification.

Ok. I'll see if I have a regular 1 x 2 splitter and see if that will work when I get home tonight.

xnappo is right.

(1) The cable from the street goes to a standard 1x2 splitter, the outputs of which go to the two locations you want to connect by MOCA.

(2) At each of your MOCA locations, the incoming cable goes directly to a diplexer, and the diplexer's satellite output goes to the MOCA box.

(3) At the location where you have your cable modem, the diplexer's normal output goes to the input of a standard 1x2 splitter, and the outputs of the standard 1x2 splitter go to your cable modem and cable converter (or Tivo).

(4) At any other MOCA location, the diplexer's normal output goes to whatever other devices you have. If you have more than one device needing the normal signal, use a normal splitter on the normal output of the diplexer.

You want to make sure that there's nothing on the line at either end of the MOCA link between the two MOCA boxes. Any line filtering must be placed after the normal output of the local diplexer.

PS Have fun in Mos Eisley - your theater? Mine is named "Stellar Cartography" - the interactive 3D star map (a spherical surround planetarium) used by Picard and Data in the movie Star Trek: Generations to figure out that the evil Dr. Soran (Malcolm McDowell) was intent on blowing up stars to change the course of the energy ribbon that acts as the doorway to the Nexus, so he could enter it from a planetary surface - since any ship that tries to fly into it is destroyed.

Ok - I never hooked a diplexer up to the "child" MOCA and it worked fine (before).
After swapping out coax cables, hooking up a 1 x 2 splitter etc etc it didn't work. Then I decided to connect the diplex, and directly connect my HDTIvo to the TV out just to make sure I could get a signal: nothing. So I dont' know what happened but luckily I had another diplexer so I tried that (to narrow down things) and directly connected the TIVO and the picture came through. I disconnected it and connected a 1 x 2 splitter to the TV out on the diplexer and connected the TIVO and cable modem and SUCCESS! It may be the flashing light (not full speed) but that's what I had before and I have the MOCA working again.
I'm curious as to the benefit of the diplexer on the 'child' MOCA boxes: if my HDTiVo, PS3, wii and WD Live all work fine through it (a 1 x 2 splitter) why would one need a diplexer there?
Since I don't have 100GB network at all my switches/etc I can't stream blu-ray files from upstairs to down but I can stream DVDs fine.
Thank you again for your feedback/input!

PS Huge Star Wars OT fan (hate the remakes and prequels). Always one of my favorite lines from the movie. I have no name for my Man Cave/theater room. It's eclectic and an old video is on youtube (my videos are by 'wryker'). I need to take a new vid to show the screen and projector and new 'stuff' added to the room. Suffice to say my Star Trek figures from when I was a kid are on display as well as Star Trek TOS figures etc..

The principal benefit of using a diplexer rather than a simple splitter is that there is far less loss of signal level to each device. Instead of giving half (actually less) of everything to each branch, it gives each branch most of the signal in the frequency band that branch actually uses. That was what xnappo's 12:44pm post put numbers on: a level loss of -1db to each branch (-3db is half strength). That means -1db to the MOCA box, and -4db to each of the outputs of the secondary splitter feeding the cable modem and Tivo.

If you used a pair of normal splitters hooked up exactly the same way, with the MOCA box on the open jack on the first splitter, the numbers would be -3.5db to the MOCA box, -7db (these are actually exponents, so -6db is half of -3db: one-quarter strength) to the cable modem, and -7db to the Tivo.

I'm put in mind of the story of how Solomon got his reputation for brilliance: by proposing to act as a 1x2 splitter to divide the baby between the two women claiming to be its mother, he found out who was the real mother (the one who cried "Let her have the baby, so it can live!"), enabling him to diplex instead, giving the whole baby to the real mother.

PS I gave out candy to the trick-or-treaters last night in my customary Spock costume: blue (licensed) original series shirt, black pants and shoes, and unlicensed pointy ears from a costume shop. One girl about 10 years old breathed "Spock!" when she saw me, others asked if I was someone from Star Trek (or Star Wars). One couple ushering their kids around were split between the two - I pointed out, as Spock, that the principle of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations meant it was unnecessary to choose between the two series - and then said, "May the midichlorians be with you." (I hope you don't mind the first prequel reference - the farce is strong in this one.)

I keep my sideburns trimmed diagonally year-round anyway.

Didn't have time to work on the eyebrows this year.

Do you play trombone like your namesake on Next Gen?