Actiontec MI424WR - a cheap MoCA bridge for all! - Page 30

Guys,

I've got a problem. This is not directly related to the Actiontec MI424WR router; but rather a MoCA issue. However, someone advised me to ask here as someone might be able to give me a solution to my problem.

I just bought the NetGear MCAB1001 Kit & installed it yesterday. One adapter downstairs in the family room with my Cable Modem/Router & all ... and the 2nd adapter upstairs in my master bedroom. The idea was simply to provide my Dune Smart D1 with enough bandwidth to stream Blu-ray ISO's.

It worked! The 2 MoCA Adapters connected and I was able to stream Blu-ray flawlessly. BUT - It killed my Cable TV - Completely!!

It was so bad that as soon as I had both MoCA Adapters connected and they passed data between each other - my Cable TV died!! And as soon as I unplugged the main MoCA Adapter -- Cable came back on!! Tested couple of times to make sure.

Let me give some details of my setup.

I have Comcast Digital Cable Service. The way my family room is setup is this ...

A Coax cable comes out from the Coax Outlet.
This cable connects to a 3-Way Splitter (Brand New / Recently Installed).
- One end goes to a TV in the adjacent room
- One end goes to the TV in the family room
- One end goes to my Cable Modem for Internet

Per the instructions, I connected the first MoCA Adapter with my Internet Cable Modem. It is here that if I plug in & turn on thej MoCA Adapter - the 2 televisions that are connected to the same splitter STOP recieving Cable TV. If I unplug it, Cable TV comes back on.

This is the 3-Way Splitter Installed:
PCT-NGNII-3SB
Genesys II
3-Way Balanced Splitter
5-1000MHz -130db RFI
Prduct details: http://www.pctstore.com/3_way_splitt...ctngnii3sb.htm


I had read in many places that if you have such & such splitter or amplifier - this product won't work! Well - In my case the EXACT OPPOSITE is happening. This product is working just fine - it's my Cable TV that's dying.

While I was streaming Blu-ray or simply transferring even basic data over this MoCA Network - my Cable was dead behind.

Per the manual & instructions that came with the NetGear MCAB1001, I checked and made sure under Coax setup, I had the Diplexer Mode set to "Moca D Band" and not "ALL PASS" (Which does apparently Kill Cable TV). And also that Frequency was set to "SCAN". Both are correct and the way they should be.

Can someone here tell me if it's the splitter that's the problem or something else? Or if I need some other kind of splitter or diplexer or something?

Thanks Guys!!

The answer is that you need diplexers where ever you are connecting the MOCA gear into the cable network. A diplexer will split out the MOCA frequencies from everything else so that your cable modem and/or STBs can't 'hear' it. I'd start with getting two diplexers, its possible (but unlikely) that you'd need them elsewhere in the house.

I picked mine up at Lowes (was unable to find them at Home Depot). One side of the diplexer (which looks similar to a 2 way splitter) will have an out to Cable TV and the other side will have an out to Satellite (in your case satellite = MOCA).

This should fix your issue.

Ok this is making a lot of sense; but I have to bother you because I have no experience with Diplexer - I don't know what it is - so I don't know what kind I need & where I need to plug it.

So I just looked one up real quick ... would this be what you're talking about ...



http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...&storeId=10051

And if it is, where exactly do I put this. Do I put this BETWEEN the MoCA Adapter & the Cable Modem? And if so, which cable goes to the IN of the diplexer and which one goes to the OUT of the diplexer.

Sorry about the ton of questions!

Thank!!

So I bought that Diplexer listed above from Home Depot; I've got the receipt in my hands in case I need to return it. I'm not sure exactly how I'm supposed to connect it but I'll give it a try. Chime in if you get a chance.

thanks!

The diplexer is a splitter that divides the signal by frequency. The jack marked Satellite (signals above 1 Gigahertz) gets connected to the MoCA box, the jack marked Antenna (below 1 Gig) connects to the TV or cable box, and the third jack (on the other side, all by itself) connects to the other room.

This way each branch gets as much of the signal meant for it and as little of the rest as possible.

I bought that splitter visible in the above post; and I just tried connecting it but obviously I didn't do it right. After I was done, I was getting the TV Signal (Although I noticed a lot of pixelation/distortion visible in HD stations every now & then) ... but more importantly ... I couldn't get the MoCA to work. I couldn't get a network signal in my 2nd MoCA Adapter.

So here's what I did ...

I connected the Coax Cable coming from the Coax Outlet (Which in my case is coming from the 3-Way Splitter as described above) into the Single Jack (The one that's by itself).

I then connected a Coax cable from the jack marked Sattelite on the Diplexer and into the COAX IN jack on the MoCA Adapter.

I connected a third Coax cable from the jack market ANTENNA on the Diplexer and into the COAX IN on my Internet Cable Modem (Comcast).

I connected the Ethernet cable from my MoCA Adapter to my Router.

That was it. Now that did leave the COAX OUT jack on my MoCA Adapter without anything connected to it - there & then I knew I wasn't doing this right. But i checked anyways and I didn't have any network connection.

So do you know what I did wrong & what I need to do?

Thanks!!

For the sake explaining to you guys clearly how I tried to connect the Diplexer, here's a diagram with the exact components that I'm using. The blue lines obviously are my coaxial cables.

Thanks.

That being the case - 2 questions --

a) Should I take this Diplexer back to Home Depot? I have the receipt - they should give me a full refund. It was about $12 bucks. If it's completely useless to me, that is.

b) Is there any any for me to change the 3-Way Splitter that was installed by Comcast (PCT / Genesis). Do I need a 1.5Ghz or 2Ghz 3-Way Splitter? I believe this one is a 1GHz splitter. Would that make a difference?

And lastly, you mentioned changing MoCA frequency up higher ... I have it set to "SCAN" right now. If we're talking about the same thing, according to the Manual, it goes from 1150Mhz ~ 1500Mhz. Is that the one you want me to switch higher?

Thanks man - I appreciate it.

Personally, my preference has always been for discrete devices so I know how they're really hooked up, so I'd put the diplexer first in the chain in each location, with any splitters coming after the "Antenna" jack.

That provides the most isolation of the TV equipment from the MoCA signal.

For the same reason, I don't trust 3-way splitters, which are just a pair of cascaded 2-way splitters. One of the three output jacks - the one that comes directly off the first splitter - will have a stronger signal than the other two. I'd want to know which one that is so I can give it to the device that has the most need of a strong signal. The only way to know which jack that is - without using test equipment - is to use a pair of discrete 2-way splitters instead.

The three-way splitters I've used always had a dB rating printed near the output ports, with one higher (i.e., less attenuation) than the other two.

Ok - Scott also suggested the exact same thing so that's 3 of you guys suggesting I try this - So I definitely want to try this today.

Before I do, I kinda wanna make sure I understand what you guys are asking me to do. No better way then my little diagaram ...



^^ Is this what you guys want me to do?

One thing I wanted to ask - doing this, I'm leaving the COAX OUT port on the MCAB1001 connected to nothing. According to the manual I'm supposed to take the Coax cable from that COAX OUT port into my Cable Modem. But I won't be doing that. Is that Ok? Will the network still function without doing that?

Also to anwser xnappo's question ... the TV *only* dies when I have the MoCA that's in the above picture connected ... my other TV which is still actually connected to the 2nd MoCA Adapter (The Recieving adapter where I have my Dune Smart D1) and I recieve cable fine on that one. So No, if I only have the 2nd recieving adapter connected - that does not kill my TV. Only when I bring this first - main MoCA Adapter & connect it with my cable modem does the TV Die.

Let me know if the above diagaram makes sense & I'll give it a shot.

Thanks Guys - I Appreciate your help! I know I'm not even working with the Actiontec router so I really appreciate you guys chipping in.

Xnappo -- I'm not sure if you understood what I meant at the end -- Having the adapter connected in my family room (which is the diagaram above) DOES KILL MY TV. It's the other adapter - which is in the master bedroom - that does not kill the TV it's connected to. That adapter is not part of this whole splitter/cable modem picture at all. It simply sits in the master bedroom and is directly connected to the wall socket and connected to a cable box - not a cable modem.

When I connect the ABOVE adapter in the family room - it DOES indeed kill both the TV's that are connected to the 3-Way Splitter. That was the problem I came here for.

So having clarified that - does the above diagaram makes sense?

Thanks!!

Will Do!! Will also try the 1400Mhz Frequency -- but I'll go in steps so that if one thing works I'm not unnecassarily doing too many things together and then not knowing what worked.

Thanks!! Will report back.

Also, read some of the reviews on the product on Amazon's website if you haven't already done so....there seems to be a lot of relevant info there that may shine a light on your particular problem. Good luck.

http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-MCAB10...DateDescending

Thanks Vin! I had started to do that at one point but left cause I wasn't hitting relevant info -- but I'll start again.

Guys - I had a quick question about the splitter that's installed. I was going through the Amazon reviews and practically every single person has listed that "you need to use 2Ghz splitter". Some have gone as far as saying "You need a 2Ghz splitter. It is required".

Well - I'm not using a 2GHz splitter as far as I know. I think it's a 1Ghz splitter. It's rated 5 Mhz ~ 1000 Mhz -130db RFI. To me that indicates it's 1GHz.

Do I need to update that? Should I really be using a 2Ghz splitter in any case? If yes ... exactly what kind of a rating (MHz) should it have?

Thanks guys.

If the splitter is on the TV branch after the diplexing - either outboard or on the Netgear's output jack, a 1GHz splitter should be ok.

It Works!!

I almost couldn't believe it - but it actually worked. The very first time! The exact diagaram that I last posted above. Used the Diplexer I got and put it first from the Wall Socket ... and NO MORE DEAD TV!! TV worked just fine!! So did Internet and everything else.

This exact Diagaram ...



So first of all ... THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.
Beer's on the house tonight! And I have to thank ScottJ for actually pointing me to this forum cause I was in the Dune Smart D1 forum with all of this.

I actually did not change the frequency; nor did I swap out the Adapaters. I just simply followed the above diagram with all other settings as is to see what happened ... and it just worked.

Having said that, I'm on to Problem #2 now.
Honestly, I don't think this is the right place for that ... but if it has anything to do with the Diplexer or the connections or wiring or anything, you guys are probably best equipped to give me advice, so I'll ask here anyways.

So my TV does not dropout anymore; and I'm getting network connection upstairs in my master bedroom where I have the 2nd MoCA Adapter connected.

However, this whole excercise ... in fact my whole purchase of the Netgear MCAB1001 and entry in to the MoCA technology was for one single reason. I have an HTPC that is setup downstairs in the family room with my main entertainment system (3D TV, Reciever, etc.). I also have a Dune Smart D1 media player installed in my master bedroom which is upstairs. Basically all my media (Movies, MKV's, DVD's & BD ISO's) are all on hard drives in my HTPC and I needed my Dune Smart D1 to be able to play movies off my HTPC downstairs.

Essentially, I need to stream HD Video/Audio, specifically Blu-ray.

After I set everything up ... I came upstairs to test my Dune Smart D1. Well, it's streaming MKV's and all just fine. However, I'm not getting smooth playback on my Blu-ray ISO's. It's stuttering here & there. In other words, the network connection/speed I'm getting through the MoCA is not strong enough to stream Blu-ray ISO.

I'm getting pretty much the same playback I did when I used a 500mbps Powerline Adapter. I was able to play MKV's and other HD Video/Audio. But Blu-ray would not stream smoothly. With Powerline Blu-ray pretty much didn't play at all. WIth MoCA, it's definitely an improvement over powerline because there is some playback ... but it starts to stutter.

Streaming Blu-ray was my only reason for this whole setup and right now I'm not achieving that.

Could there be something in my setup that's preventing better speed/connection to stream Blu-ray effectively? Do I need a different kind of Diplexer maybe?

Could it be something else?

The way my network is setup is this now ...

Comcast Cable Modem --> Vonage Adapter
Vonage Adapter --> Netgear Wireless Router WNDR3700
Netgear Wireless Router WNDR3700 --> Netgear MCAB1001 MoCA Adapter.

The HTPC is directly connected to the Netgear Wireless Router WNDR3700 and has a Realtek 8111E Gigabit Ethernet port.

I'm not sure why I still can't stream Blu-ray.

Any advice?

Thanks guys - Can't appreciate enough.

xnappo-

I'm pretty sure that the other MoCA device is connected to a similar wall jack somewhere else in the house, which is connected to this wall jack via coax in the walls, both tied to the Point of Entry (the cable from the street, mickey) through a standard splitter.

If so, since the MoCA device in the diagram is attached to the Satellite side of the diplexer, it can see (hear?) the other MoCA device thru the diplexer's third, unlabeled, jack (unless you count In/Out as a label).

The only isolation is what a diplexer should provide - from the Comcast equipment and the TV.

He could also have simply attached the Netgear MoCA device directly to the wall jack, set the Netgear to pass only frequencies below 1 Gig out its second jack, and attached that jack to the splitter - and he should try that next at both ends of the MoCA connection, to avoid the signal loss produced by going through two diplexers in a row: one outboard and one internal.

Maybe that could reduce the MoCA signal loss enough to avoid the stuttering.

When I set up my MoCA link the hardest part was making sure that both locations were connected to the cable from the street through the same two-way splitter at the same generation of the cascade so the MoCA boxes could hear each other - I ended up having to take out the cable company's three-way splitter and replace it with a pair of cascaded two-way splitters to make sure of that. My neighbor thus got the use of the side of the first-level splitter that was not further split, doubling his signal strength from what it had been before.

If the cable from the street is being split to multiple rooms with a three (or more)-way splitter, mickey could try the same thing - the hardest part being figuring out which cable goes to each room! (Hint: try disconnecting the cables from the main junction box one at a time to see which connection goes dead when each one is unplugged!)

Sorry guys - wife had me busy yesterday so couldn't respond to your queries & suggestions.

Xnappo -- the "Wall Outlet" is 1 of 5 Coax Jacks that are installed in the house. It is *NOT* the main entry point for ALL cables in the house. We have a box installed outside from which 5 Coax Cables run directly into the house into 5 rooms. I'll explain this in detail below.


Xnappo -- Philnick is bang on target!! What he's saying about my setup is exactly right and exactly the way it is.

I'll try & explain my setup in detail here; and since I don't need to show you guys the splitters & devices anymore ... I won't use huge diagrams ... I'll just explain it in writing. (Sorry about the large diagrams).

So here it goes ...

OUTSIDE THE HOUSE

The Comcast Cable from the street connects to a BOX that is installed on the OUTSIDE wall of my House. This is probably the "main entry point" as such. This BOX has a very large 5-WAY SPLITTER. The 5 Coax Cables coming out of that large splitter directly run across my Siding & go into my house in 5 different rooms. The cables are not interconnected -- they run directly from the BOX outside to the Coax Wall Jacks inside. Those are my 5 Wall Jacks which give me Comcast Cable in 5 rooms. Those are the ONLY 5 COAX OUTLETS that I have in my house.

INSIDE THE HOUSE

Those 5 Coax Cables coming from the 5-Way Splitter go into 5 Coax Wall Jacks inside the house to the following rooms ...

Wall Jack #1: Family Room
Wall Jack #2: Master Bedroom (Upstairs)
Wall Jack #3: Office/Den (Upstairs)
Wall Jack #4: 2nd Bedroom (Upstairs)
Wall Jack #5: 3rd Bedroom (Upstairs)

On my lower level where we have the family, we also have a 4th Bedroom that did not have any Coax Outlets/Wall Jacks. So in order to give that bedroom a Coax Outlet, this is what Comcast did ...

On Wall Jack #1: Family Room ... they installed a 3-Way Splitter (That you guys have seen in the pictures above).

This is what the 3-Way Splitter did ...

Jack #1 On Splitter: Goes to 4th Bedroom (For TV)
Jack #2 On Splitter: Goes to Family Room (For TV)
Jack #3 On Splitter: Goes to Family Room (For Internet Cable Modem)

What I needed to do was connect the Family Room <--> Master Bedroom because my HTPC is in the Family Room and my Dune Smart D1 is in the Master Bedroom, simply so I could stream Full Blu-ray's from the Family Room to the Master Bedroom.

After taking you guys' suggestions, this is what my 2 rooms actual connection setups look like:

FAMILY ROOM

Coax Wall Jack ---> Diplexer IN

Diplexer ANT ---> 3-Way Splitter

3-Way Splitter --->
Jack #1: 4th Bedroom (TV)
Jack #2: Family Room (TV)
Jack #3: Family Room (Cable Modem)

Diplexer SAT ---> MoCA Adapter's COAX IN

Cable Modem ---> Ethernet --> Vonage Adapter/Router
Vonage Adapter/Router ---> Ethernet ---> Wireless Router
Wireless Router ---> Ethernet ---> MoCA Adapter

MASTER BEDROOM

Coax Wall Jack ---> MoCA Adapter COAX IN
MoCA Adapter COAX OUT ---> Comcast Cable BOX
MoCA Adapter Ethernet ---> Dune Smart D1

This is pretty much the whole setup.

Now that I'm past the "TV Cuts Out" problem by using the Diplexer ... the only problem that I'm having is that I'm still not able to stream Blu-ray; as I said above, it stutters and it's possible due to some interference or connectivity issue in my setup.


Philnick --

Now that I have a slightly better understanding of Diplexer/Splitter and how my setup is working, I think I understand what you're suggesting and I'm going to try it.

Firstly though, I see what you had to do to make sure your cables were on the same Splitter ... in my case however, I don't believe I need to do that since all 5 Coax Cables are connected to the Same 5-Way Splitter so both Family Room & Master Bedroom are "on the same" Splitter.

Coming back to your original suggestion -- I think what you're trying to say is (And correct me if I'm wrong) -- Get rid of the Home Depot Diplexer -- Instead, since the NetGear MCAB1001 has a built-in Diplexer, connect the Coax from the Wall Jack DIRECTLY into the MoCA Adapter's COAX IN, and take a Coax Cable from the MoCA Adapter's COAX OUT and connect that to the 3-Way Splitter's IN? Correct?

If that is correct, my only question is -- I'm not sure how to do this --> "set the Netgear to pass only frequencies below 1 Gig out its second jack" ?? Are you talking about the "Frequency" Option inside the MoCA Adapter's setup which is set to "SCAN" right now?

---

One more thing I'd like you guys to consider. I had talked about this in my previous post. If I understand MoCA correctly ... the Ethernet cable running from my Wireless Router back into the MoCA Adapter is what's supplying the MoCA Adapters with Internet/Intranet Networking Access, correct? Well, my Internet Cable Modem connects to a Vonage Router/Adapter ... and that Vonage Router/Adapter connects to my regular wireless router. Although I have never seen a degraded performance in networking before due to Vonage Adapter being "BEFORE" my Wireless Router ... I have never really tried to stream Blu-ray before either!! Is it possible that the Vonage Adaper, that sits between my Internet Cable Modem & my Wireless Router that connects to MoCA ... is causing a degraded network performance?? It's just a thought.

I'm open to all suggestions.

Thanks Guys!!

mickey -

The five-way splitter connecting all the rooms to the cable from the street is not a single splitter but is actually four two-way splitters cascaded (or nested, if that term is more descriptive to you): each output from the first splitter is fed to the input of two more two-way splitters (second-level splitters), producing four outputs, and then one of those outputs is split a third time (the third-level splitter), to produce two more. Thus three of the outputs have been split twice and two of them have been split three times. As nothing works without loss in this world, a splitter's outputs at each level are each less than half of what went into that splitter.

Aside from the tremendous loss in cable tv signal strength on the last pair, it is very hard to be sure which pairs are actually tied together inside the box on the same two-way splitter.

The MoCA signal is riding on leakage sideways across a splitter. If it has to go upstream as well, from an output of one two-way to its input and then sidewas across another, the loss of MoCA signal strength is even more.

If the jacks are marked with numbers that indicate how much loss each jack is subject to, then the pair with the greatest loss are the third-level splitter, but you won't know which of the other three are on the same second-level splitter.

I would suggest that you replace that five-way splitter with four cheap two-way splitters and a few short cables to tie them together, and put the rooms with MoCA devices on both sides of one of the second-level splitters.

As I said in my previous post, you can figure out where each of the five cables fed by the current five-way splitters goes by disconnecting then one at a time to see which room is cut off, and labeling them as you go so you know which is which. Then put together the cascade I described earlier. By using separate pieces you'll be able to make sure that your two MoCA devices are on the same second-level splitter, giving them both the clearest path to each other and giving those rooms the strongest cable tv signals as well.

Why cheap splitters instead of fancy ones? Because part of the sales pitch for the fancy ones is the degree of isolation between the outputs - precisely the opposite of what you want, since MoCA rides on the leakage between the jacks!

Not having one of the Netgear boxes I can't tell you how to do what I described with its configuration, but I believe you can tell those boxes to send all frequencies or just those below 1GHz to their output jack. I could be wrong about that - or it might not matter, as the path to the MoCA circuitry might not be affected if it's merely putting filtration on the output jack - but if the Netgear has both a diplexer and a simple splitter inside and that configuration choice routes the signal through one or the other, you want to make sure it's the diplexer being used, not the splitter.

Phil

PS As the various rooms in my building belong to different neighbors, I wasn't free to determine which was which by the simple expedient of unplugging them and seeing what stopped working - I had to photograph the underside of the box on the side of the house from the garden with a telephoto lens, and coordinate that image with what I could see from above, to decode the rat's nest of wiring!

Phil,

What you're saying makes a lot of sense; I actually didn't know what I was seeing was multiple splitters combined ... I thought that actually was a single 5-Way Splitter. The "nested" splitter explanation makes sense to me.

I took some photographs to show you and just to be sure.

This is the BOX outside the house to which the street cable connects ...


The inside of the BOX ...


The 5-Way Splitter ...


A splitter inside that I hadn't noticed ...


So essentially, I still need to figure out if the Family & Master are on the same splitter and if not - put them on the same 2nd level splitter.

I also understand what you mean about the frequency.

I'll have to give this a shot and see if it improves the connectivity speed and enables blu-ray stream without stuttering.

Thanks!!

Since that Evolution EVO1-5-U/P is a powered device, it might not work the way I described but probably has radio-frequency amplifiers rigged up in parallel - so it may have more isolation between all of its outputs than is healthy for a fast MoCA connection.

I certainly wouldn't replace it with your own splitters - your cable company would get very peeved by an expensive device like that being bypassed.

Just put your two MoCA rooms onto a simple two-way splitter fed by one of the EVO's outputs.

The amplification inside the EVO will make sure that the cable company's signal to those rooms is nice and strong.

Phil

Phil --

I was begining to realize the same when I saw the power adapter for that EVO device; I didn't think replacing it would be a good idea. That being the case - I'll do what you've suggested. I'll figure out the cable for Family & Master using your method of elimination and put them on a single 2-way coming out of the EVO device.

I'm also still exploring the possibilities of the Vonage causing any network connectivity/speed issues for steaming blu-ray.

Thanks man!