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Polski Pokoj HT & Bar Basement Build - Page 2

post #31 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I suspect the problem was not the diameter of the pipe but rather the horsepower of the pump. Builders are notorious for putting in undersized pumps that wear out in a couple of years. I mean you have to ask yourself looking at the old pipe that is for "aesthetics reasons" how much water was coming into the sump pit that couldn't be pumped out that pipe. I don't believe that it was too small, just the guys brain was too small.

You should also do an audit of your perimeter water management to see why so much water is getting to the sump. Missing or damaged gutters and drain spouts, poorly sloping ground around the perimeter of the house etc.

I have to wonder about building a new house. My current house, built in 1986 I believe, is horribly built. Everything is undersized. We're on a well, and the tank is only 3 gallons, meaning that every time you flush a toilet, the well pump has to refill the tank. No wonder our well pump went out twice in five years (once before I owned the house). Then, we we had the well pump replaced, it was horrendous. The used many 20 foot sections of pipe that were basically taped together, and many different wires (12 gauge, 10 gauge) also taped together. It cost us 3 grand to fix. I still haven't fixed the undersized tank, because the house has so much else to fix. We've replaced the gutters (the old ones leaked backwards into the house), we're about to replace the sliding glass door downstairs, which has an undersized header, allowing the whole ceiling to sink, it goes on and on.

And then we could get into the previous owners. The previous owners had a new, larger deck put on. They never removed the footers and bottom step from the old deck! They also had a walkway put in (or they put it in) that's falling apart. It's horrible.

And none of this (I can excuse the walkway) was on my inspection. You could easily see where the gutters put water back into the house, as the inside trim is wet and the outside trim is rotten. The freaking idiot inspector complained about the oil tank being in the garage but caught nothing else wrong with the house. (And I blame myself, too, for not taking long enough examining the house on my own; however, as my first house in New England, last house was in AZ, I had no idea gutters would leak.)

Anyway, enough of a rant for now.
post #32 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by mels View Post


Question:
1) I have the following ducts; regarding soundproofing, do I need to do anything with them?


2) I will need to extend the vent so it comes through the 2 layers of DW and RSIC clips. Does anyone know the approx. length from the bottom of a joist to the end of the 2nd piece of DW (if using 2 layers of 5/8") and the RSIC whisperclip? And what is a good way to extend it?

Thanks

2) If sound containment is a critical element of your build you may want to replace the round metal ducts (those supplying the theater) with fiberglass insulated flexible duct as they carry less sound. The garden variety you get at HD are better than the round metal ducts but the true acoustical duct (See FlemasterUSA.com product 6B.) are even better. Then you can just mount the vent collar at the right height.

for extending the ends of vents through thick ceilings I found that you can fasten something really quick with a strip of aluminum flashing bent into a square and held in place and made air tight with metal duct tape,

1) your biggest challenge are those big flat return ducts.

To the extent you can retrofit at least the ends that you can reach through the vent covers with duct liner it will help. Adding mass to the metal will help it form picking up some of the airborne sound and if you have the coin you could add a product like dynamat. You need to make sure your ceiling structure doesn't not come in direct contact with the metal to reduce vibrational transfer. The one return duct that is made using the between joist space I would open up and add a layer of duct liner.

Also you show pictures of two supply ducts, you also need a return. This room is going to get hot when you fill it with people, your gear and the fireplace.
post #33 of 78
In looking at the picture of the framed-out fireplace, I assume you left that drywall and framed in front of it? Did you leave a space between the old drywall and your new framing? Wondering if there is a triple leaf there?

And that long framed walll...are those top plates in contact with the beam? I would think that would make for a pretty good (or bad as the case may be) flanking issue.
post #34 of 78
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post

In looking at the picture of the framed-out fireplace, I assume you left that drywall and framed in front of it? Did you leave a space between the old drywall and your new framing? Wondering if there is a triple leaf there?

And that long framed walll...are those top plates in contact with the beam? I would think that would make for a pretty good (or bad as the case may be) flanking issue.

Yes I left a 1/2" gap between the existing drywall and the new wall.
All the current wall frames are connected to the joists using only DC04 clips.
post #35 of 78
Thread Starter 
Since I am building new walls, the existing electrical outlets need to be extended. My idea was to simply splice a new 14/3 from the box then cover it with a faceplate (with a hole). Any ideas?
post #36 of 78
You'll have a triple leaf if you don't remove the drywall in the middle.
post #37 of 78
I would indeed remove the old drywall and check the electrical installations, with the other quality work he has done, I would not trust the electrical one bit. And to do it properly, don't extend the boxes, move the boxes to the final studs.
post #38 of 78
I'll have to agree. Take down whats there. You have no idea what's back there. Plus you're losing several inches of valuable space.
post #39 of 78
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

You'll have a triple leaf if you don't remove the drywall in the middle.

Would I have to remove the vapour barrier as well or could I simply add insulation over top?
post #40 of 78
You won't need to remove the vapor barrier. Insufficient mass to define a cavity, so you're OK.

Insulation simply needs to be some R13 fiberglass in the new wall. Plus whatever is in the original wall.
post #41 of 78
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

You won't need to remove the vapor barrier. Insufficient mass to define a cavity, so you're OK.

Insulation simply needs to be some R13 fiberglass in the new wall. Plus whatever is in the original wall.

Thanks Ted... I'm just reading about the triple leaf effect from the GG company website. Even if the air cavity is filled with insulation would that still be considered a triple leaf?
post #42 of 78
http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...e_leaf_effect/

Expanded article with new diagrams.

Even with insulation, it's a triple leaf.
post #43 of 78
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...e_leaf_effect/

Expanded article with new diagrams.

Even with insulation, it's a triple leaf.

Thanks Ted. Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend.
post #44 of 78
give a holler if you get stuck
post #45 of 78
while for sound proofing, the vapor barrier can stay, for doing a good job with the insulation, the vapor barrier needs to be on the warm side of the insulation here in Ontario. Installing vapor barrier is pretty straight forward, involving not much more than a staple gun and time
post #46 of 78
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjalfe View Post

while for sound proofing, the vapor barrier can stay, for doing a good job with the insulation, the vapor barrier needs to be on the warm side of the insulation here in Ontario. Installing vapor barrier is pretty straight forward, involving not much more than a staple gun and time

Ok ... finished ripped out all the existing DW... that sucked.

I happened to live near Buffalo in Canada, so it does get pretty cold here.
If I left the existing vapor barrier, could I simply add the insulation on top? Does it need another vapor barrier layer after.
post #47 of 78
Thread Starter 
Does anyone know how to change the main thread title - can't seem the find the option anywhere on here.

thanks
post #48 of 78
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

2) If sound containment is a critical element of your build you may want to replace the round metal ducts (those supplying the theater) with fiberglass insulated flexible duct as they carry less sound. The garden variety you get at HD are better than the round metal ducts but the true acoustical duct (See FlemasterUSA.com product 6B.) are even better. Then you can just mount the vent collar at the right height.

for extending the ends of vents through thick ceilings I found that you can fasten something really quick with a strip of aluminum flashing bent into a square and held in place and made air tight with metal duct tape,

1) your biggest challenge are those big flat return ducts.

To the extent you can retrofit at least the ends that you can reach through the vent covers with duct liner it will help. Adding mass to the metal will help it form picking up some of the airborne sound and if you have the coin you could add a product like dynamat. You need to make sure your ceiling structure doesn't not come in direct contact with the metal to reduce vibrational transfer. The one return duct that is made using the between joist space I would open up and add a layer of duct liner.

Also you show pictures of two supply ducts, you also need a return. This room is going to get hot when you fill it with people, your gear and the fireplace.

Thanks Big. I'll look into the flex ducts probably from HD or Lowes.
As for the returns... good point, the room will probably get very hot and will need some air to move. Could I simply leverage an existing return?

As for the Dynamat... I found a product on eBay which is 1/4 the cost, it is called FatMat, I wonder if anyone has success using this.
post #49 of 78
The system as pictured is going to bleed through to the upstairs. You can replace with flex duct... and no improvement. The problem is you have a vent ported directly into the joist cavity. This is full strength sound, which at those levels won't care that your flex takes an abrupt 90 degree turn. Much of the high energy sound waves will continue straight through whatever elbow you have and travel straight upstairs.

The sound has to be diminished considerably before actually exiting the room. THis is often done with a soffit built to act as a muffler.
post #50 of 78
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

The system as pictured is going to bleed through to the upstairs. You can replace with flex duct... and no improvement. The problem is you have a vent ported directly into the joist cavity. This is full strength sound, which at those levels won't care that your flex takes an abrupt 90 degree turn. Much of the high energy sound waves will continue straight through whatever elbow you have and travel straight upstairs.

The sound has to be diminished considerably before actually exiting the room. THis is often done with a soffit built to act as a muffler.

So are you saying that if I was to replace only the forced air heat feeding the home theatre room with flex duct but via a sofit - I should be ok? So therefore if I was to add a return I should use the same principle...
post #51 of 78
You have it exactly. Use soffits built as mufflers to reduce the sound to a point where it's safe to have the air leave through your ceiling.
post #52 of 78
Thread Starter 
Been a while since the last update, progress is slow - the new addition to our life keeps me busy.
Here is the looking at the screen wall from kitty corner


The soffit suspended by DC04 clips



Screen wall again with all conduit run


Looking at the back where the project will sit, you can see the speaker alcoves - these will house AXIOM M2 in walls. I am also sealing each box with MDF and acoustical caulking.


Built a vent pipe for the projector with a small 12volt triggered fan up top to bring in cool air.


Fireplace view


Equipment closet


I am worried that the soffit is going to be too heavy for the amount of DC04 clips I have. I estimate the soffit will weight approx. 730 lbs with all the lumber, 5/8 DW and green glue. It is nailed/screwed to the decoupled walls at either end, so some of the load will be dispersed there. But I am concerned about the middle. There are 10 clips on either side with the majority in the center. Technically 20 clips rated @ 36 lbs = 720 lbs total load. I feel like I should add another 5 clips on either side to help with the support. Anyone have any suggestions?
post #53 of 78
That's a big soffit. I'd add a few more clips, though the ratings of such things are generally quite understated.
post #54 of 78
Thread Starter 
I'm starting to install the RSIC-V clips perpendicular to my ceiling joists; from what I understand, I install the clips spaced 48" apart and rows 24" apart - with the first row out about 8" from wall and second row 24" from wall
Is this correct?

What would be the benefit - drawback from installing clips every 24"? I am hanging 2 layers of 5/8" drywall, I would think more in a row is better?
post #55 of 78
Do you not have an Installation manual?

more clips means more conduction and less flex.
post #56 of 78
Thread Starter 
yes I do - I went ahead and did the recommended 48" clip distance and rows spaced 24" apart.

I also read somewhere on a post here that you take back unused clips? That still true?
post #57 of 78
Please send us an email for details like that.
post #58 of 78
Thread Starter 
Some updates on progress

insulation going in


hat track and ceiling insulation


built backer boxes for can lights




drywall stage - an important step for the WAF

this is the bar area


fireplace will be have a tiled face


looking at the theater area
post #59 of 78
Starting to look like a room.
post #60 of 78
Nice progress, it's coming along well. Don't worry too much about it coming along 'slowly'. I'm rather impatient, so when I finished a step I moved onto the next, whether or not budget permitted me to do everything I wanted. In retrospect, there's a few things I would have liked to have done differently, but because I kept pushing forward the budget wouldn't allow it.

Also, I love looking at your initial pictures. I'm always afraid my work will be easily spotted as DIY, especially when I see some of the really well finished basements on this site. So when I'm feeling down, I like to come to this thread so I can console myself by looking at your pre-work pictures to remind myself that at least I did a better job than the guy who worked on your basement before you. Of course a 12 year old could probably have done better than him, but hey, it's make me feel better.
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