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Meridian HD621 MHR makes the 861 "High End" again. - Page 2

post #31 of 105
I have the C61R rack mout equivalent to the G61R/G68 processors (same DSP engine) combined with the HD621. The sound and video for film and from red book CD via Trifield is fabulous with this set up. Personally, I could not care less about the technical nitty gritty as long as the sound is smooth, clear, musical, transparent and dynamic. All these ingredients are in place with this Meridian combination. The HD621 is a great peice of kit that upgrades not just the 861 but most of the older processors as well.

Regards,

Paul
post #32 of 105
Wake me up when Meridian 861 version 5 comes out....
post #33 of 105
Lets hope the ante ageing cream holds up while the bold princess hacks her way through the Boothroyd-Stuart defensive perimeter to present you with the Meridian road map magically waking you from your hundred year sleep.

Regards,

Paul
post #34 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

Wake me up when Meridian 861 version 5 comes out....

Certainly worth the wait for the inevitable MMHR card and possibly a bigger dsp processing engine ( more MIPS ) but not worth depriving yourself of the excellent 2/5.1 channel sound quality available now especially on HD formats via the 621 .

As for 192khz , is it ever going to be more generally available ? Does it even bring any major benefits ?

Meridian are to be commended for , yet again , increasing the performance of the equipment in which we've invested though it would be nice if they could release their Q+A from Ces !

~M~
post #35 of 105
Has anybody here a expert take on Sony´s use of Auto and 2ch PCM for the HDMI output on its new Sony BDP-S360 blue ray player? I need PCM for my Meridian HD621. 2Ch PCM seems to do exactly what it states, everything is processed up to 2 channels only and is displayed propperly as MHR mov2 96K on my 568 processor. Auto however is more of a mistery. It seems to give you Higher Audio Resolution 5.1 PCM for DTS-HD-MA and Dolby True HD with the 568 displaying MHR mov6 96K. Lower Audio resolution (DD, DTS etc.) however, seems to be passed trough the 621 without any MHR processing as the 568 only states the usual AC3, DTS etc as it would where I using plain DVD signals via coaxial input to the 568? All other HD players that Ive tested set to PCM on their HDMI outputs to the HD621 are passed trough the MR621 to the 568 as MHR (mov 2, 6 etc. 96khz)! Has anyone here any expert take on this SonyS360/Meridian HD621 oddness?
post #36 of 105
Thread Starter 
I bought the Sony BDP 360 Blue Ray player to take advantage of the internal decoding of Dolby Digital and DTS True HD as well as DTS Master Audio. Like THUNDER8268 all I could get was regular Dolby Digital through the HD621 and the smart link to my 861. I called Sony and a nice fellow investigated the situation and told me the BDP 360 was incompatible with the HD621. He did not know if other True HD decoders of Blu-Ray players allow Master Audio and the rest out in a full (not 2-channel only) PCM bitstream.

If anyone is still folllowing this thread can you tell me if any decoded True HD or Master audio can be sent to the HD621 via PCM by any new Blu-Ray player? I started this thread with a Sony BDP 500 which sent undecoded DTS Master Audio from the Roy Orbison "Black And White Night" through the HD621 which sounded great in DTS from the 861. The Sony 500 is back in place in my system and the 360 is being returned to B&H in NYC. Is there any Blue Ray machine that I can ask for that will send decoded DTS Master Audio via full PCM bitstream to the HD621 that can be sent by the smart link to the 861?

Thanks for any help, Capnvid
post #37 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnvid View Post

I bought the Sony BDP 360 Blue Ray player to take advantage of the internal decoding of Dolby Digital and DTS True HD as well as DTS Master Audio. Like THUNDER8268 all I could get was regular Dolby Digital through the HD621 and the smart link to my 861. I called Sony and a nice fellow investigated the situation and told me the BDP 360 was incompatible with the HD621. He did not know if other True HD decoders of Blu-Ray players allow Master Audio and the rest out in a full (not 2-channel only) PCM bitstream.

If anyone is still folllowing this thread can you tell me if any decoded True HD or Master audio can be sent to the HD621 via PCM by any new Blu-Ray player? I started this thread with a Sony BDP 500 which sent undecoded DTS Master Audio from the Roy Orbison "Black And White Night" through the HD621 which sounded great in DTS from the 861. The Sony 500 is back in place in my system and the 360 is being returned to B&H in NYC. Is there any Blue Ray machine that I can ask for that will send decoded DTS Master Audio via full PCM bitstream to the HD621 that can be sent by the smart link to the 861?

Thanks for any help, Capnvid

Dear Capnvid, please read my posting again. You obviously did not understand it. My 568 does seem to get Dolby Digital Master Autio and DTS HD MA from the S360 through the HD621 as the 568 displays the correct MHR MOV6 96K on the front panel as it did with all other HD players Ive tested that have multi PCM on their HDMI output. I can clearly hear better fidelity than from for example the older S300 that had a dedicated multi PCM setting (along with 2ch PCM and Auto) on its HDMI output. The S300 could however not decode DTS-HD-MA, but it managed Dolby True HD. The S360 is also slightly better than my Toshiba XA2, soundvise. The XA2 also has multi PCM on its HDMI output. The oddness with the S360/HD621 is with the standard DTS, Dolby Digital signals that do not seem to get the MHR treatment in the HD621. This is obviously a question for someone that knows the AUTO setting workings on the Sony S360 and Sony players in general. That is why I posted this on the S360 thread also, just in case there was a "Sony expert" available on the AVSF.
The problem with the HD621 however is that it does lack any display, showing what goes in to it or out of it (like for example a dedicated Iscan video processor does have). You only get what the Audio processor (in my case the 568) displays as its input signal and that should be MHR if the HD621 is doing its job. Bottom line S360/HD621 seems to decode DTS-HD MA and DD True HD to MHR but only seems to pass DD and DTS without any MHR processing. So back to the drawing board.
post #38 of 105
The HD621 does not decode DD or dts signals but rather it passes them through for decoding my the Meridian pre/pro....therefore, the reason that your 568 is displaying AC3/dts/etc. (i.e. rather MHR) is because the source, in this case your Sony blu-ray player, is sending the HD621 a DD/dts bitstream/encoded signal rather a PCM/decoded signal...

HTH
post #39 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc View Post

The HD621 does not decode DD or dts signals but rather it passes them through for decoding my the Meridian pre/pro....therefore, the reason that your 568 is displaying AC3/dts/etc. (i.e. rather MHR) is because the source, in this case your Sony blu-ray player, is sending the HD621 a DD/dts bitstream/encoded signal rather a PCM/decoded signal...

HTH

Thought that was the case but the question is why did Sony change this in the S360 as the older S300 passes DD and DTS trough the HD621 as PCM that decodes in the 568 as MHR. So does the Toshiba XA2 and many other HD players I tested with the HD621? So the bottom line is that the HD621 does decode DD and DTS if it is passed trough as multi PCM but just not from the S360. But the S360 does work with Dolby Digital Thrue HD and DTS-HD-MA as the S360 has internal decoding for these formats that seem to be output as multi PCM on its HDMI output. Sonically the lack of DD/DTS PCM output does not matter to me as I bought the S360 mainly for the DTS-HD-MA and I also found out that Doldy Digital True HD was the best from any HD player Ive put through the HD621 yet. DD and DTS bitstreamed also sounds great from the S360 even though I do not get the MHR treatment from the HD621, but then again that is what most people without Smartlink are working with anyway. I still have my older S300 hooked up to the HD621 so I can still get the DD/DTS MHR treatment if I want. To finish this off it would be great to get info. from someone that knows exactly what Sony´s "AUTO/HDMI" gameplan realy is.
post #40 of 105
Been testing the Sony BDP-S360 with the Meridian HD621. Ive found out that the S360 can send all sound formats from a Blue-ray disc as PCM to a HD621, there to be decoded as MHR that is then sent to a Meridian processor. These are the settings you need to use on the S360 for the different sound formats (from a Blue-ray disc) to work with the HD621;

Dolby Digital 2.0:
Audio HDMI: Auto or 2ch PCM
Audio BD: Direct (with HDMI/2ch PCM) or Mix (with HDMI/Auto)
Will show as MHR mov2 96K on a Meridian audio processor
Will show as Dolby Digital 2.0 the S360 Audio display

Dolby Digital 5.1:
Audio HDMI: Auto
Audio BD: Mix
Will show as MHR mov6 96K on a Meridian audio processor
Will show as Dolby Digital 3/2.1 on the S360 Audio display

Dolby TrueHD:
Audio HDMI: Auto
Audio BD: Direct or Mix
Will show as MHR mov6 96K on a Meridian audio processor
Will show as Dolby TrueHD 3/2.1 on the S360 Audio display

DTS:
Audio HDMI: Auto
Audio BD: Mix
Will show as MHR mov6 96K on a Meridian audio processor
Will show as DTS 3/2.1 on the S360 Audio display

DTS-HD-MA:
Audio HDMI: Auto
Audio BD: Direct
Will show as MHR mov6 96K on a Meridian audio processor and
will show as DTS HD MA 3/2.1 on the S360 Audio display

This means you can leave the S360 on HDMI/Auto and Audio BD/Mix for all sound formats to be converted to MHR exept for the DTS-HD-MA format. Here the Audio BD setting must be set to Direct.

The S360 will naturally have to be set to HDMI output setting and you will have to set the Audio DRC at "Wide range" as this is for playback at normal volume levels. I can not see that any of the other S360 settings have anything to do with HDMI/PCM signals to the HD621.

Please note however that "plain" DVD playback is another matter. Here you have no way of converting audio signals to MHR in the HD621 unless you use the HDMI/2ch PCM setting. That means only MHR processing for 2 channels for DVD´s on the HD621!!!

If you compare the S360 to the older Sony BDP-S300 (4.9 firmware) this looks like a step backwards by Sony. As the S300 does have all the above S360 settings in one standard setting, that is the HDMI output simply set to PCM (this setting is missing in the S360). The S300 also handles both Blue-ray and DVD discs alike regarding multi MHR. The S300 is obviously better in this way but it does not handle DTS-HD-MA and most likely never will (because of internal storage limitations). Also the S360 seems to have a overall edge "fidelity wise" due to newer and better internal processing, but the S360 leaves a lot to be desiered consumer wise. The lack of a eject button on the remote saying all there is (even though you can use the S300 remote eject button on the S360!!!).

If Sony gets it act together in future models and brings us the best from the S300 and S360. We would have a dream machine for the HD621.

Hope this posting helps anybody considering a Sony BDP-S360 for a Meridian HD621.
post #41 of 105
Thread Starter 
Hey Thunder!

Thank you for explaining in detail how the S360 can get a good HDMI "handshake" with the HD621. Its very important that such things are explained because different HD and DTS MA internal decoding Blu-Ray players seem to require different settings to achieve their full potential with the HD621. You're right about the S360 being user unfriendly. It's also smaller than the video processor I normally put on top of my Blu-Ray player.

I took my own S360 back to B&H to exchange it for something else I needed. I use my old Sony S500 and get excellent, although not HD decoded, "auto" setting bitstream sound from the HD621. I will wait until a really good decoder Blu-Ray player comes out like the new Marantz, Oppo, or a new Sony machine and go through the adventure of finding the right settings for decoding. I hope you enjoy the sound you worked so hard to get from the S360 through your HD621.

Cheers, Capnvid
post #42 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnvid View Post

Hey Thunder!

Thank you for explaining in detail how the S360 can get a good HDMI "handshake" with the HD621. Its very important that such things are explained because different HD and DTS MA internal decoding Blu-Ray players seem to require different settings to achieve their full potential with the HD621. You're right about the S360 being user unfriendly. It's also smaller than the video processor I normally put on top of my Blu-Ray player.

I took my own S360 back to B&H to exchange it for something else I needed. I use my old Sony S500 and get excellent, although not HD decoded, "auto" setting bitstream sound from the HD621. I will wait until a really good decoder Blu-Ray player comes out like the new Marantz, Oppo, or a new Sony machine and go through the adventure of finding the right settings for decoding. I hope you enjoy the sound you worked so hard to get from the S360 through your HD621.

Cheers, Capnvid

Not hard work, just fun. Thats what we are here for anyway, right! I am using the S360 until the Oppo BDP-83 is available for the general public (very soon now). But even then I think ill compare the S360 with the Oppo as you cant get a better HDMI source switcher than the HD621 to try these babys out with. More toys for us boys.
post #43 of 105
I can't seem to get to the hitchhikers site. Anybody else having trouble?
post #44 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_Morr View Post

I can't seem to get to the hitchhikers site. Anybody else having trouble?

They had a glitch yesterday which seems to have been resolved. Worked for me this morning.
post #45 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_Morr View Post

I can't seem to get to the hitchhikers site. Anybody else having trouble?

No issues. Try here > http://www.meridianunplugged.com/ubb...s.php?ubb=cfrm
post #46 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1971 View Post

No issues. Try here > http://www.meridianunplugged.com/ubb...s.php?ubb=cfrm

That worked. Thanks.
post #47 of 105
would I be correct in assuming the HD621 only works on Meridian products?
post #48 of 105
That would be partially correct. It will work with all processors EXCEPT, you will not get the lossless formats (MasterHD, etc) out of it. That would require an MHR link and only Meridian has such an interface.
post #49 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

That would be partially correct. It will work with all processors EXCEPT, you will not get the lossless formats (MasterHD, etc) out of it. That would require an MHR link and only Meridian has such an interface.

Dennis:

I , as an HD621 owner, do not think that to be correct as follows:

-- The HD621 must receive the lossless audio in uncompressed format (i.e. LPCM) as it does no decoding.

-- The HD621 has two three outputs (MMHR via 4 coax coonections, MMHR via cat5/SpeakerLink and HDMI).

-- The HD621's outputs are all simultaneously active which means that it is my understanding that the HDMI output will output the inputed LPCM signal.

-- What is loss (i.e. no pun intended) by using the HDMI audio outpout is i) apodozing / upsampling the signal for non 88 kHz / 96 Khz signals ii) connectivity / transferability to a Merdian processor.

Hope this is helpful...
post #50 of 105
I found this

Quote:


Meridian's new solution easily handles these problems allowing all components that deliver video via HDMI to a common destination. Thus, a single cable can be run from the HD621 to the display, while enhanced digital audio is fed to the sound system. The HD621's audio outputs connect directly to an existing Meridian processor, offering complete and immediate system integration. Meanwhile, the HDMI video is de-jittered and its quality maximized

.....on the Hometoys website: http://www.hometoys.com/news_detail_rss.php?id=15120592

What exactly does the bolded statement above mean? The HD621 doesn't process video does it?
post #51 of 105
The 621 does not "process" video. The HDMI output does NOT include the audio according to Meridian.
post #52 of 105
The 621 will output video or audio by the user's choice of configuration for that output. By default it only outputs video but as stated it can be configured to do audio out. The product info sheet that can be found on Meridians web site states "HDMI OUTput: Video-This outputs the video information present on selected HDMI input. By default,it does not carry the audio information,but can be configured to do so". So, Meridian does say that HDMI audio out can be output if the user so desires.
post #53 of 105
Ah. Thank you for the correction.
post #54 of 105
Did any of you A/B a soundtrack either with and without the HD-621? I listened to a Dark Knight demo last month, and quite frankly found the sound to be less impressive than my own system with regular DD. I also thought it suspect that the dealer did not have a regular Bluray player on hand so that he could show the difference between the HD-621 and bluray over coax/spdif. Granted the speakers are wildly different, but I still thought that the virtues of the high resolution soundtrack would be obvious. Is it a subtle improvement, or perhaps one only obvious on really high-end systems?
post #55 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 568 View Post

Did any of you A/B a soundtrack either with and without the HD-621? I listened to a Dark Knight demo last month, and quite frankly found the sound to be less impressive than my own system with regular DD. I also thought it suspect that the dealer did not have a regular Bluray player on hand so that he could show the difference between the HD-621 and bluray over coax/spdif. Granted the speakers are wildly different, but I still thought that the virtues of the high resolution soundtrack would be obvious. Is it a subtle improvement, or perhaps one only obvious on really high-end systems?

Based on my experience there is no comparison between lossy and lossless audio with the lossless audio being noticeably superior...in fact, I find the audio improvement to be greater than the video in comparing DVD to Blu-Ray...
post #56 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc View Post

Based on my experience there is no comparison between lossy and lossless audio with the lossless audio being noticeably superior...in fact, I find the audio improvement to be greater than the video in comparing DVD to Blu-Ray...

It must have been a terrible demo or DSP 7000s aren't that good then? I guess I need to hear it on a much better system
post #57 of 105
I am having an HD621 installed in two weeks time. Based on what I have read here I don't know whether or not I'm in for a substantive improvement or a huge disappointment. I'm hoping for a substantial improvement in sound quality from my SKY HD satellite receiver and a modest improvement from my Blu-Ray player. Before reading this thread I was hoping for fireworks but I have now started to seriously manage my expectations. I'll be sure to post by thoughts and comments once my dealer has installed the device. All the best.
post #58 of 105
My audio experience with the 621 has been wholly positive. The difference between digital lossless and lossy *is* significant and I'm now replacing HD-DVDs that use DD/DTS with the lossless blu-ray if available.

Mark
post #59 of 105
Mark_H thanks for your post...makes me feel a little less pessimistic. I am assuming that there will be a firmware upgrade to the 861 at some point in the near future so that it can handle DD True HD and DTS Master Audio (i.e. HD621 + 861 + firmware upgarde will allow Meridian users to enjoy the full Blu-Ray audio experience)...is this a false assumption on my part?
post #60 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepin View Post

Mark_H thanks for your post...makes me feel a little less pessimistic. I am assuming that there will be a firmware upgrade to the 861 at some point in the near future so that it can handle DD True HD and DTS Master Audio (i.e. HD621 + 861 + firmware upgarde will allow Meridian users to enjoy the full Blu-Ray audio experience)...is this a false assumption on my part?

We are already enjoying the full experience... PCM out of the player (which Meridian have repeatedly stated is the best way to deliver the audio) into the HD621 where it is buffered, upscaled and apodized before being delivered to the 861 for final processing. All codecs supported by this method (assuming you have a player that decodes them all). It doesn't get any better than that...

Well, actually, according to Meridian, it does - they plan to release a MMHR smartlink card for the 861 that thay claim sounds better than S/PDIF.

Cheers,

Mark
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