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Samsung PNXXB850 & PNXXB860 Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocuMaker View Post

Neither is the Sammy! It's 1.2 inches thick, and the V10 is not exactly deep, at only 2 inches thick.

Nope, it is not 2" thick. Only one very small portion of it is. If you look at the specs it is 3.4" thick.



IMO Samsung is destroying Panasonic in the thin factor and I am heavily leaning towards a V10. I just don't understand why PAnasonic needed to make that set so thick...does it take that much room to improve the blacks?
post #152 of 3219
Thread Starter 
These samsungs are 1.25" thick the whole way down. ( Notice the quarter taped to the bezel. )

post #153 of 3219
This review has definitely solidified my choice to buy the 63B550. I think the whole minimum black level output thing is always blown totally out of proportion. Like someone said earlier, if I was only worried about how black something could get I would just buy a gallon of black paint and stare at a wall. Im coming from a Mits 52625 DLP anyways, and that might have the worst black levels known to man. Color accuracy, motion resolution, screen uniformity, and many others are more important to me anyways. And no where else am I going to be able to get a 63 inch plasma for under $3k. The Panasonic G series doesnt have anything above 54, there arent any LCD's above 55 inches, and the 65 inch Panasonic V series will probably cost a small fortune. Thanks Chad, this review was all I needed to pull the trigger on a new 63 inch Samsung Plasma.
post #154 of 3219
@Chad,

Would you be so kind to post or PM me the settings of the Samsung B860 (I own the B850, European / Dutch model) after you callibrated the set? Thanks!!

And with regard to the picture quality... I'm not a 'cinema-purist', neither can I perform measurements. I did however watch several displays in a side-by-side comparison amongst them the Pioneer 600M and the Philips 21:9 Cinema (LCD, yes...).I felt that the Pioneer did the best job of mastering the blacks while revealing details at the same time. On the other hand, when it comes to motion, the Samsung beats the Pioneer. Pan-scans are just smoother on the Samsung.

Besides all discussions about picture quality, the B860 is a good display, user friendly and easy to set-up. That goes for multimedia (USB, DLNA support), as well as the internet widges. It works, and is easy to use.

For those of you who are thinking of a set-up with a Yamaha receiver, I had trouble with the display quality at first (vertical stripes, noise. After updating the Yamaha firmware (RX-V3900) to version 1.07 the problem was solved.
post #155 of 3219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtiffy View Post

This review has definitely solidified my choice to buy the 63B550. I think the whole minimum black level output thing is always blown totally out of proportion. Like someone said earlier, if I was only worried about how black something could get I would just buy a gallon of black paint and stare at a wall. Im coming from a Mits 52625 DLP anyways, and that might have the worst black levels known to man. Color accuracy, motion resolution, screen uniformity, and many others are more important to me anyways. And no where else am I going to be able to get a 63 inch plasma for under $3k. The Panasonic G series doesnt have anything above 54, there arent any LCD's above 55 inches, and the 65 inch Panasonic V series will probably cost a small fortune. Thanks Chad, this review was all I needed to pull the trigger on a new 63 inch Samsung Plasma.

I agree and you will love the PN63B550.
post #156 of 3219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemmy999 View Post

Everyone keeps saying the Samsungs are at a better price than the Panny's, but I just don't see it. Best price I have seen on a 50" B850 is $1900 and the B860 is a few hundred more than that. The 50" V10 was $1999 at the one place that had it for a few days and will likely be about the same price ast the B850 when more stores obtain it.

I know when I say this I am talking about the Samsung PN58B550 or PN58B560 compared to the TH-58PZ800U. The top models as you notated are about the same price.
post #157 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I decided to just do the calibration in the user menu.

Can you post the settings you used?
post #158 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocuMaker View Post

Well the 850 I saw at Best Buy certainly did not look washed out by any means, but the B750 LCD right next door on the endcap looked darker. The Luxia is a bit darker than the B750, (I did see those next to each other), so you have an LED-LCD and a CCFL LCD which still look darker than the 850 in very bright conditions. I bet the Luxia and the B750 LCD can even give the 850/860 a run for its money with regards to black levels in moderate lighting and in a dark room too. That doesn't mean I prefer those displays--for they have other issues, but it does show you that Samsung has much more work to do in the blacks area on their plasmas.

Yes, the 850/860 series still isn't quite as inky black as a Samsung LCD in bright lighting conditions, but it's better than any other plasma that I've seen in that situation.
post #159 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

Which to me means the 850/860 looks better than any other plasma out there during the day, where all other plasmas reveal their greenish grey screens. I'd say that's a fair trade for the not-quite-as-dark-as-a-G10 blacks in dark room conditions.

I definitely agree! while it would be nice to have inky black blacks, I'll take the trade off for a better "perceived" picture with light in the room since I do not have a dedicated theater room.
post #160 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOAMattD View Post

Can you post the settings you used?

It's going to be different from one sample to another, even the same model; I have seen the variation time and time again. Also, there are variations in source components, connections, etc. I might come up with very different settings than a different calibrator would; that is because a good calibration is both art and science.
As the sole breadwinner in my household and someone whose only income is from calibrating TVs (I don't make any money writing the reviews), I am hesitant to publish the settings for fear that too many people will put them in, believe they will have a calibrated set, and then not have me or another top notch calibrator out to get it done right. They could very well then be looking at an inaccurate image, and I would be hurting myself, other calibrators, and even them because they are not getting the most out of it. I am not trying to be mean here, and I hope you will understand my concern.
post #161 of 3219
Ok guys, maybe we can just let DocuMaker have his last words. It seems as if he really just wants to keep these debates he carries on going and I for one am getting annoyed with having to scroll through all of his posts just to participate in the rest of the thread. I know there have been some valid points made but this really is "The owners'/potential owners' thread" and I really do not think there is anymore need for this type of debating when we just keep coming back to the same points.

Hope I am not out of line here, but I am sure some others will agree

post #162 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by emelioestaves View Post

Ok guys, maybe we can just let DocuMaker have his last words. It seems as if he really just wants to keep these debates he carries on going and I for one am getting annoyed with having to scroll through all of his posts just to participate in the rest of the thread. I know there have been some valid points made but this really is "The owners'/potential owners' thread" and I really do not think there is anymore need for this type of debating when we just keep coming back to the same points.

Hope I am not out of line here, but I am sure some others will agree


I agree, its kind of getting old. Im all for a good debate since they can be very informative, but a lot of this has gotten out of hand. First it was the Samsung 2009 thread that he hijacked, now he's showing up in the owners threads. If he wants to open up a thread and discuss this I'm all for that, but lately its seems he's been on a holy crusade of sorts against the tyrant that is Samsung plasma owners and will stop at nothing to convince them they have bought inferior televisions. I think if people stop replying to him he will eventually go away.
post #163 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by emelioestaves View Post

I definitely agree! while it would be nice to have inky black blacks, I'll take the trade off for a better "perceived" picture with light in the room since I do not have a dedicated theater room.

Yeah. Even in the dimly lit magnolia rooms, so long as there is any light the room the G10 (and other plasmas) still show their grey screens to my eye.
post #164 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by emelioestaves View Post

I definitely agree! while it would be nice to have inky black blacks, I'll take the trade off for a better "perceived" picture with light in the room since I do not have a dedicated theater room.

I agree with this 1000%. I like the Panasonic build quality and their contrast ratio in a very dark room. But the two things that really irk me about their plasmas are their horrendous designs and their AR filters. Both Samsung and Pioneer plasmas are so much better at preserving a deep shade of black with ambient light. Even in a Magnolia room I've noticed the pz850 panasonic has a light gray/green haze in letter box bars, whereas 2008 Samsung and Pioneer plasmas maintain a solid inkiness. Maybe not bezel black, but solidly inky nonetheless. And at the end of the day that's all that matters to me: whether a plasma looks black or not in my living room. That's why I like Samsung's plasmas this year and the promise they hold for future years' plasmas. Pretty much the only thing I can fault them on is not having a raw minimum luminance as low as Pansonic and Pioneer. Everything else is great.
post #165 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

Yeah. Even in the dimly lit magnolia rooms, so long as there is any light the room the G10 (and other plasmas) still show their grey screens to my eye.

That is what is making me think about the 850/60 over the V10, since my wife doesn't like it when I close the shades
post #166 of 3219
Does anyone know what this is for? FYI I am running break-in images from a usb drive...
LL
LL
post #167 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

It's going to be different from one sample to another, even the same model; I have seen the variation time and time again. Also, there are variations in source components, connections, etc. I might come up with very different settings than a different calibrator would; that is because a good calibration is both art and science.
As the sole breadwinner in my household and someone whose only income is from calibrating TVs (I don't make any money writing the reviews), I am hesitant to publish the settings for fear that too many people will put them in, believe they will have a calibrated set, and then not have me or another top notch calibrator out to get it done right. They could very well then be looking at an inaccurate image, and I would be hurting myself, other calibrators, and even them because they are not getting the most out of it. I am not trying to be mean here, and I hope you will understand my concern.

Fair enough, figured it was worth asking. Question though - Can you explain what the "cell light" setting is and if it should be messed with at all, as opposed to just using brightness/contrast? There's a thread about it but it's long degenerated into childish bickering (deja vu...)
post #168 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta_23 View Post

Does anyone know what this is for? FYI I am running break-in images from a usb drive...

You know, I have the same light on my 850 that I noticed when i was investigating my buzzing. It almost always seems to be on no matter what I am watching. I figured maybe it is just some kind if indicator light when the TV is operating, hopefully nothing bad. If anyone else could dig up an answer for this that would be great.
post #169 of 3219
see attached pics...

When enabled, it shows "1920x1080 @24Hz"

can that be right?
LL
LL
LL
LL
post #170 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta_23 View Post

see attached pics...

When enabled, it shows "1920x1080 @24Hz"

can that be right?

The tv seems to think it's on, but toggle between Cinema mode on and off while the credits roll at the end of a Blu-Ray film and see if there's a visual difference. If you can do that for us, and if you can see a difference, then we can finally put this Cinema Smooth thing to rest.
post #171 of 3219
There is a lot of talk about black levels and reflections. I´m coming from a high-end CRT-set. Could I expect lesser reflections and better blacks on a Samsung -09 plasma?
post #172 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

The tv seems to think it's on, but toggle between Cinema mode on and off while the credits roll at the end of a Blu-Ray film and see if there's a visual difference. If you can do that for us, and if you can see a difference, then we can finally put this Cinema Smooth thing to rest.

I'm really not sure that I can detect a difference.

Can you?
post #173 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta_23 View Post

i'm really not sure that i can detect a difference.

can you?



nope:d
post #174 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahafj View Post

There is a lot of talk about black levels and reflections. I´m coming from a high-end CRT-set. Could I expect lesser reflections and better blacks on a Samsung -09 plasma?

Probably not.
post #175 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta_23 View Post

I'm really not sure that I can detect a difference.

Can you?

me neither but thanks for doing this video...now if someone with an 860 could compare on/off on credits just like you did and tell us if it's better or similar to your video that would be nice

or better if someone could film a scene with on/off making a difference (especially on an 850 to confirm it works)...would be nice!!!
post #176 of 3219
Per BB Magnolia tech - B850 does not have cinema smooth, but the B860 does in fact have that feature at 96hz. I believe the TV's are essentially the same. The fact that one can find Cinema Smooth labeling within the B850 adjustments must only mean Samsung simply disabled the feature on the B850 without changing the directory.
post #177 of 3219
Regarding Blacks - the B550 has settings for Black - normal, dark, darker, darkest and another setting HDMI Black level for screen depth. Assume the Series 8 also has these controls. If the test were done with normal settings, would be interesting to see if the results were different with other settings.
post #178 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by thj17 View Post

me neither but thanks for doing this video...now if someone with an 860 could compare on/off on credits just like you did and tell us if it's better or similar to your video that would be nice

or better if someone could film a scene with on/off making a difference (especially on an 850 to confirm it works)...would be nice!!!

Agreed and exactly. Thanks for doing this video delta_23. Either Cinema Smooth doesn't actually do anything once enabled on the 850, or Cinema Smooth just doesn't look any different. It would take an 860 owner performing the same before/after test to confirm.
post #179 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta_23 View Post

I'm really not sure that I can detect a difference.

Can you?


There is a huge difference if you turn cinema smooth on and off, it is noticeably smoother, still not perfect but there is definitely a difference.

And the video with the credits is pretty pointless
post #180 of 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by andygeerlings View Post

dude... What are you trying to prove with these rants..? Really... Why do you feel the absolute need to correct every single little detail about everyones opinion that you think is biased and chew them out in the mean time?
It's not only unnecessary and useless, but quite irritating aswell, and the only thing it generally does is making you look like an annoying know it all that thinks his opinion is the only one that actually matters...

I think your posts usually add some nice insights, but do us all a favor and stop ranting, stop nitpicking about every single detail in posts you don't fully agree with and stop repeating yourself over and over and over... We already know and understand your opinion on blacks thouroughly, you made absolute sure of that

+1
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