Best VP for Laserdisc playback? - Page 2

Originally Posted by HDgaming42

Agree completely! I love the thought of squeezing every last drop of potential performance out of gear. And I love expanding my knowledge in topics like these!

I nearly bought a X0 to back up the Star Wars Trilogy, but abandoned that when I learned about the X0 Project.

I'd love to get to the bottom of which output of the X0 provides the best signal. I'd always heard it was the BNC composite. Are there any pics of that out through outboard processors vs the S-video? Is that how you took your pics nidi?

Originally Posted by nidi

yes, of course, I used the BNC composite and went into the Entech and Alchemy.

Michael

Originally Posted by Fudoh

Completely off-topic, but isn't it so much more fun to talk about the essence of video processing, about comb filters, about laserdiscs, about a 80 lbs Pioneer player instead of nowadays usual topics like HDMI handshakes or HDCP issues ?

Originally Posted by Hunter

This is not completely true. The basic noise reduction process in a Mosquito will reduce both chroma and luminance noise in an analog source.

And if the analog signal is output via S-Video into any kind of analog-to-digital process (deinterlacing, scaling, etc.) and THEN run into the Mosquito the artifacts resulting from most Y/C filters will be reduced by the digital artifact processing in the Mosquito.

I used to run my Mosquito with LD and found it helpful in both areas. The settings do need to be used carefully.

Originally Posted by Josh Z

To clarify, we weren't talking about the Algolith Mosquito. We were talking about the "Mosquito NR" setting in the DVDO VP50PRo, which doesn't affect analog chroma or luminance noise at all.

Originally Posted by jedi.master.dre

What would you suggest to improve laserdisc picture quality? I have an Edge and an Panasonic PT-AE3000U. The Edge doesn't seem to help that much for laserdisc (I haven't calibrated much yet). Should I consider a Flea?

To clarify, we weren't talking about the Algolith Mosquito. We were talking about the "Mosquito NR" setting in the DVDO VP50PRo, which doesn't affect analog chroma or luminance noise at all.

Originally Posted by gtaylor74

The best thing to improve laserdisc quality is a better laserdisc player. The Edge is already giving you great deinterlacing, and a comb filter can only do so much to improve quality. The only thing that can really make a big difference in laserdisc quality is to move to a high quality player.

Originally Posted by HDgaming42

Thanks for clarifying!

to which device do you want to feed the Composite ?

all external comb filters people rave about (Faroudja,Entech,Alchemy,...)

are worse than the S-Video output, didn't I prove that in the pics ?

even with a Mitsubishi S=VHS VCR with the latest 3D comb filter you
don't get such a clean picture.

if there would be an external 'latest technology' 3D comb filter with great
internal signal routing, then it might be slighly better,
but a 2D comb filter just doesn't cut it nowadays, too many hanging dots
and crawl and not enough detail.

the X9 is much worse in chroma noise than the X0, even with NR on.

Originally Posted by Axatax

I don't doubt your results in the slightest, but it's a generalization to state these results are universal with the varied equipment we place after the player or comb filter.

In the case of the X9, at least, my finding are similar to JoshZ's WRT artifacting when coupled to a video processor using S-Video. In my setup, the Entech CVSI-1 fed by the X9's composite output provides a superior result to using S-Video direct from the player. These new super chips employed by modern VPs are doing or expecting something different than what the NEC filters are providing. This issue most likely doesn't exist with the X0 S-Video output since it employs a 2D filter like the Entech.

The Entech is also visibly superior to the much lauded Gen. 5 TI comb filter in the CII and the Marantz MV8300 (JVC 40K clone) that I have experimented with.

Also, I wouldn't test something like an outboard comb filter or deinterlacer on static images if you're running a VP or modern display in the video chain.

Originally Posted by Axatax

I don't doubt your results in the slightest, but it's a generalization to state these results are universal with the varied equipment we place after the player or comb filter.

In the case of the X9, at least, my finding are similar to JoshZ's WRT artifacting when coupled to a video processor using S-Video. In my setup, the Entech CVSI-1 fed by the X9's composite output provides a superior result to using S-Video direct from the player. These new super chips employed by modern VPs are doing or expecting something different than what the NEC filters are providing. This issue most likely doesn't exist with the X0 S-Video output since it employs a 2D filter like the Entech.

The Entech is also visibly superior to the much lauded Gen. 5 TI comb filter in the CII and the Marantz MV8300 (JVC 40K clone) that I have experimented with.

Also, I wouldn't test something like an outboard comb filter or deinterlacer on static images if you're running a VP or modern display in the video chain.

I'm waiting for HDgaming42's analysis of my tests, since he's the only one that
asked for the download link.

Originally Posted by jedi.master.dre

Yeah well I had a hell of a time telling my wife I wanted to get a Pioneer CLD-D704 when I had a D504, S105, M301, LDV-2200 and a Sony MDP-333. All on a dead format. If I was to go for a 2-3K Japanese player?

Originally Posted by nidi

have you downloaded my moving tests yet?


what do you think ?

Michael

Originally Posted by gtaylor74

Understood. I am just speaking from my experience on laserdisc players. When I had a CLD-52, I wanted more, so went to a Elite CLD79. Wanted more still so I bougt an Iscan Ultra scaler. Very little improvement at all, then went to an Iscan HD+, again, minimal improvement. In the end, the only thing that significantly improved laserdisc performance was a better laserdisc player. I spent lots of money on scalers thinking it would make a magical difference. All the scaler did was took a mediocore analog image and performed a bit better deinterlacing than my HDTV did. In the end, it was the X9 that got me where I wanted laserdisc to be. Lots of money yes. My advice is just that you are only going to see slight, if any, performance increase on laserdisc based solely on scalers and comb filters. The core performance is in the image that the player itself puts out.

Originally Posted by EmoryS

Hello,

Well... although I don't think I am going to get much improvement from the component out of my 704 laserdisc player, I couldn't resist picking up a Crystal Vision VPS-1 off of fleabay for $50.

For those that might be interested, there is a new Entech CVSI-1 currently for auction on fleabay - Item number: 180361513220

As good as the Entech unit might be, I don't think it is worth $200 even though it might be new in the box.

Anyway, I don't have any association with the seller, but thought I would mention this in case anyone who reads this thread might be interested in picking up an Entech CVSI-1.

EmoryS

As good as the Entech unit might be, I don't think it is worth $200 even though it might be new in the box.

the Entech is ... it's pretty mediocre and does add some additional noise.

it seems that buying a better LD player would net you a far more substantial gain in PQ than picking up an Entech...

My advice is just that you are only going to see slight, if any, performance increase on laserdisc based solely on scalers and comb filters.

Originally Posted by Hunter

This is especially true of the SVSI-1. While still applicable I am not quite as enthusiastic about the CVSI-1 in all circumstances.

Originally Posted by Josh Z

What's the difference between them?

Originally Posted by Josh Z

What's the difference between them?

Originally Posted by Josh Z

OK, but why is Hunter not enthusiastic about the CVSI-1? Is there a quality difference?

Originally Posted by JoshA

SVSI-1 stands for S-Video System Integrator so it converts composite to S-Video. CVSI-1 stands for Component Video System Integrator and it converts composite and S-Video (and it had a component pass through that was only capable of passing through 480i/576i) to component video.

Sorry I am not sure why Hunter has the preference for the SVSI-1, other than potentially the lower cost and better availability.