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Official Sony KDL-XXZ5100 Owner's Thread - Page 62

post #1831 of 2287
Also,
As CEB noted, the Sony manual recommends 10 Mbps for HD streaming, but some say Netflix only requires 5 Mbps. Does this mean that the media technology in the LCD requires a higher Mbps than say a Roku box?
post #1832 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Also,
As CEB noted, the Sony manual recommends 10 Mbps for HD streaming, but some say Netflix only requires 5 Mbps. Does this mean that the media technology in the LCD requires a higher Mbps than say a Roku box?

Are they referring to Netflix HD when they make those statements? I can believe that Netflix SD would be just fine at 5Mbps...but HD might be a different story.
post #1833 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSonntag View Post

Holy Crap Will! How the heck do you get those speeds to your house? I only have experience with Comcast, and they top out at 12Mbps I believe...

And I'm hoping my Sharks won't make another quick exit from the playoffs. At least they made it to round 2!
Chris

Chris,

Bright House Networks in Central Florida started running fiber optic at the street level about 4 years ago. I know this next statement is gonna piss people off...We are expected to hit 100 mbps sometime this year! Woo hoo!
You know I'll tap that!

You have more right to crow about with The Sharks, than I do. Getting 113 points in The Western Division is no easy task!

Another thing, definitely off topic, btw. I've always been meaning to ask you, and it always slips my mind. Your user name...Sind Sie Deutscher?

I'm assuming you are either German and/or speak German, since, for everyone who is now wondering if I finally completely lost it, Sonntag is German for Sunday. If this is a personal thing, I apologize and please forget that I asked. Munshower is my real last name, that was anglicized when my parents came here.
post #1834 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Also,
As CEB noted, the Sony manual recommends 10 Mbps for HD streaming, but some say Netflix only requires 5 Mbps. Does this mean that the media technology in the LCD requires a higher Mbps than say a Roku box?

So sorry...I forgot to add this disclaimer regarding Mbps and mbps. Even the industry can't get it straight!! 5 Mbps would crush my current speed records.

As I look into this, there are so many ways to differentiate between megabits and megabytes, it's making my head swim. For all purposes, including rantings from me, whenever a given speed is referred to, most likely it will be in megabits.
post #1835 of 2287
John,

I just noticed that there was more to your query. Was Roku's manual referencing HD?

Also, the information regarding Netflix HD requirements is out-dated. I knew I should have re-checked this. I'm going to change my post, as well. Netflix should stream well with 5 mbps at the endpoint. My bad!

For the record, when I do local streaming of 480p DVD's, the numbers are still 3.5 to 4.5 mbps. It's all about true resolution, I guess...
post #1836 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

Sorry...I just noticed your reply to my post. OK...1st, do you have a calibration disc to set contrast, brightness and gamma to your ambient light/wall, color conditions, etc? This is definitely a must have.

Next, barring having a colorometer, I would recommend looking at some of the other members white balance settings. Then season to taste. Everything else seems OK, to my eyes. Depending on your lighting/taste your backlight might be a notch high considering your contrast and brightness settings, IMO. But this can be very subjective, considering not seeing your set with all of the factors that effect black levels and peak white.

Let us know if you have a cal disc...Will

i don't have a cal disc... anyway i like watching movies with calibrated settings but sports and other shows during the day i like different settings
post #1837 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

Chris,

Bright House Networks in Central Florida started running fiber optic at the street level about 4 years ago. I know this next statement is gonna piss people off...We are expected to hit 100 mbps sometime this year! Woo hoo!
You know I'll tap that!

You have more right to crow about with The Sharks, than I do. Getting 113 points in The Western Division is no easy task!

Another thing, definitely off topic, btw. I've always been meaning to ask you, and it always slips my mind. Your user name...Sind Sie Deutscher?

I'm assuming you are either German and/or speak German, since, for everyone who is now wondering if I finally completely lost it, Sonntag is German for Sunday. If this is a personal thing, I apologize and please forget that I asked. Munshower is my real last name, that was anglicized when my parents came here.

Wow Will...almost makes me want to move to Florida...I said ALMOST! LOL I was just reading in USA Today about the economic recovery that is under way, but they said it may take over a year for Florida to ride the recovery wave due to the dramatic housing bust there. Maybe I can still get some cheap land?

Yes, the Sharks always seem to amass huge regular season point totals, then do a disappearing act in the playoffs. I'm hoping this year they'll keep up the pressure.

Actually, my father is French, having been born and raised in Paris. However, the family, many generations ago, thrived in the Alsace region, which as you may know is in what is now the French-German border. The name originated there. My parents are both still alive, and as a matter of fact are currently visiting me from Southern California. They both lived through the war in Europe (Mom is Italian), and have very interesting stories about their experiences with German, American, and English troops. My father saw the occupation of Paris by the Germans and its eventual liberation by the Americans. Mom's family hid English soldiers from German troops.

Unfortunately, I speak no German but can get by in French and Italian when necessary!

Best,
Chris
post #1838 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSonntag View Post

Are they referring to Netflix HD when they make those statements? I can believe that Netflix SD would be just fine at 5Mbps...but HD might be a different story.

Chris, I believe so.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post18326132
post #1839 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

So sorry...I forgot to add this disclaimer regarding Mbps and mbps. Even the industry can't get it straight!! 5 Mbps would crush my current speed records.

As I look into this, there are so many ways to differentiate between megabits and megabytes, it's making my head swim. For all purposes, including rantings from me, whenever a given speed is referred to, most likely it will be in megabits.

Will, If your head is spinning, you can imagine my state of confusion.

As far as I know they are freferring to Mbps
http://www.optimum.com/online/why/faster.jsp
States as fast as 15 Mbps, but when I tested my PC (not my Sling link) it was arounfd 7 Mbps. I assume megabits
post #1840 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

John,

I just noticed that there was more to your query. Was Roku's manual referencing HD?

Also, the information regarding Netflix HD requirements is out-dated. I knew I should have re-checked this. I'm going to change my post, as well. Netflix should stream well with 5 mbps at the endpoint. My bad!

For the record, when I do local streaming of 480p DVD's, the numbers are still 3.5 to 4.5 mbps. It's all about true resolution, I guess...

Will,
The HD quality was "decent" last night, obviously not BD quality, at 7 Mbps. So I guess, if the pausing doesn'y occur, I'll be ok.
post #1841 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by cristian_ro View Post

i don't have a cal disc... anyway i like watching movies with calibrated settings but sports and other shows during the day i like different settings

Hi Cristian,
Fortunately, the Z5100 has various scene modes. Not sure if you're familiar (and I apologize if you already are), but by hitting the scene mode, you can choose the sport setting, and calibrate that sport setting different from the other scene settings for movies or general, which should help give you what you're looking for.
-Best,
John

P.S. you can get a free calibration disc on this forum, I think it's AVS HD 709, which can be found here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496
post #1842 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSonntag View Post

....(Mom is Italian)....,
Best,
Chris

Chris,
I knew you were a paisan.
Will, you're an honorary paisan.
-Best,
John
post #1843 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Chris,
I knew you were a paisan.
Will, you're an honorary paisan.
-Best,
John

Definitely a paisan John. I spent my first few years of life in Flushing, NY, living upstairs from my Italian grandparents (in typical European fashion). As a matter of fact, a year or so ago, my dad gave me a bunch of old 8mm film reels that were taken during those years (1955-1960). Since the 8mm projector had long ago given up the ghost, I had the films transferred to digital media, and this weekend surprised my parents with a trip down memory lane (shown on my Z5100, of course!).

There was footage of their wedding, of relatives' weddings, and of course tons of footage of me...I swear the stuff looks like it came from the cutting room floor of the Godfather. Pure mafioso...
Tanti auguri,
Chris

P.S. Apologies for the OT diatribe....
post #1844 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

Please note that there is a lot of confusion over mbps (mega bits) and Mbps (mega bytes) per second. Broadband providers and networking equipment manufacturers always use mega bits...I suppose because it sounds faster.

Just wanted to quickly chime in since errors like this only cloud the issue further. For the most part, Will is correct, but the abbreviations he's using are wrong. First, there is no such thing as 'mbps' (you can't break a bit into thousandths since it is the fundamental binary data unit). However, there are Mbps (megabits per second), and MBps (megabytes per second), which is what Will was referring to.

[Aside: the capital M is the standard metric/SI abbreviation for 'mega', meaning one million. The abbreviation for 'bits' is always a lowercase 'b', while the abbreviation for 'bytes' is always an uppercase 'B'. In standard modern computing terminology, there are 8 bits per byte.]

Back to what we were talking about. Network equipment manufacturers almost always measure transmission rates in some form of bits per second (i.e., Kbps, Mbps, Gbps, etc). For the time being, the speeds your ISP gives you will be measured in Mbps, and that's the unit of measure that we're invariably dealing with when talking about online video streaming.

One more thing for dsskid, you mentioned that your ISP has 'burst' rates. Ignore any number they give you there since it only applies for short periods of downloading. Streaming a movie will be a 1-1/2 to 2 hour sustained transfer, so any 'burst' benefits your ISP might offer won't apply. Burst rates are handy for quickly loading a webpage or pulling down some images via email, but have no use at all for large downloads or streaming media.

EDIT: Looking at Optimum Online's page, it looks like they aren't using "burst" technology (Comcast does, though). So if they say you have "up to 15Mbps", then it looks like it could potentially be a full 15Mbps.
post #1845 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSonntag View Post

Definitely a paisan John. I spent my first few years of life in Flushing, NY, living upstairs from my Italian grandparents (in typical European fashion). As a matter of fact, a year or so ago, my dad gave me a bunch of old 8mm film reels that were taken during those years (1955-1960). Since the 8mm projector had long ago given up the ghost, I had the films transferred to digital media, and this weekend surprised my parents with a trip down memory lane (shown on my Z5100, of course!).

There was footage of their wedding, of relatives' weddings, and of course tons of footage of me...I swear the stuff looks like it came from the cutting room floor of the Godfather. Pure mafioso...
Tanti auguri,
Chris

P.S. Apologies for the OT diatribe....

What a nice thing to do. I'm sure it brought tears to their eyes.
Many good wishes to you as well,
John
post #1846 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugnax555 View Post

Just wanted to quickly chime in since errors like this only cloud the issue further. For the most part, Will is correct, but the abbreviations he's using are wrong. First, there is no such thing as 'mbps' (you can't break a bit into thousandths since it is the fundamental binary data unit). However, there are Mbps (megabits per second), and MBps (megabytes per second), which is what Will was referring to.

[Aside: the capital M is the standard metric/SI abbreviation for 'mega', meaning one million. The abbreviation for 'bits' is always a lowercase 'b', while the abbreviation for 'bytes' is always an uppercase 'B'. In standard modern computing terminology, there are 8 bits per byte.]

Back to what we were talking about. Network equipment manufacturers almost always measure transmission rates in some form of bits per second (i.e., Kbps, Mbps, Gbps, etc). For the time being, the speeds your ISP gives you will be measured in Mbps, and that's the unit of measure that we're invariably dealing with when talking about online video streaming.

One more thing for dsskid, you mentioned that your ISP has 'burst' rates. Ignore any number they give you there since it only applies for short periods of downloading. Streaming a movie will be a 1-1/2 to 2 hour sustained transfer, so any 'burst' benefits your ISP might offer won't apply. Burst rates are handy for quickly loading a webpage or pulling down some images via email, but have no use at all for large downloads or streaming media.

Pugnax,
Thank you for the clarification. So when I do the speed test, that is a better indication of what kind of Mbps that I'll receive, correct when streaming? 7 seems pretty good. Hopefully it will be enough to help me to avoid any Netflix streaming glitches that was having with the Z5100.
-Best,
John
post #1847 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Pugnax,
Thank you for the clarification. So when I do the speed test, that is a better indication of what kind of Mbps that I'll receive, correct when streaming? 7 seems pretty good. Hopefully it will be enough to help me to avoid any Netflix streaming glitches that was having with the Z5100.
-Best,
John

Since the whole "burst" thing doesn't seem to come into play with your ISP, then yes, one of the speed test sites should give you a fairly accurate number.

I came across a page a month or two ago that detailed Netflix's encoding methodology (I believe it was somewhere on the official Netflix blog). Basically (at the time it was written a year or two ago), they did 5 encodes of movies at various bitrates. These are from memory, so they're most likely wrong, but they're in the general ballpark. Bitrates are roughly 500kbps, 1.0Mbps, and 1.5Mbps for SD material, and then ~2.5Mbps and ~3.5Mbps for HD encodes. When the player does it's bandwidth check, it adds on something like 10-15% additional headroom to these bitrates to minimize buffering issues.

So in a nutshell, if you can sustain over 4.5-5Mbps, you should be able to get the best streaming quality they offer (assuming they haven't added any tiers since they wrote that blog post). However, if you're getting hiccups, there are a number of places along the way that could be causing it. You might be able to fix it on your own or you might not.
post #1848 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Thanks Dave. I'll have to check this out at the other end of the Powerline ethernet adapter to see what I'm getting.
P.S., I noticed that if I click on a NJ location, I get faster speeds (on my main PC), why is that, and can I connect to it for all my computer needs?
John

No, you don't have a choice where you connect to. It's up to your ISP to (hopefully) choose the fastest uplink for you and/or your area (AFAIK).

As an aside to this, and in keeping with Netflix topic, realize that there is a difference between SD and HD streaming too.
Netflix offers both, only the selection for HD is very limited.
Not only that, but the negotiation between the NF servers and your Z-display/ISP speed will determine IF you are eligible to receive HD streaming.
If your connection is too slow, then the stream will default to SD instead of HD when available.

I had a conversation about all of this with a colleague of mine a while ago, and if I remember correctly, he said for HD streaming you basically need more than 12 Mbps to avoid problems.
You could still use like 10 Mbps and not have problems, but the potential is still there.
I can also guarantee he is an expert in this area, so no doubting.

The biggest problem with it all, is how much everything varies, especially with your ISP. You could have 15 Mbps speeds one minute, but then it may fall to 9 Mbps the next. So in order to combat that, you pretty much have to use a higher speed so it does not drop too low.
Unfortunately, that usually means a higher price paid for your ISP service for faster speeds.
post #1849 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by tightclaws View Post

Good points Will and Dss, I was hoping for more streaming apps. I wish we could choose stuff we wanted off the net. I love the set overall best picture I have ever owned on a set. Really I'm happy, I just think the streaming is not as functional as it could be.

Interesting conversation that I had with a Sony rep earlier.

Quote:


user John has entered room

analyst Aaron_ has entered room

John > hello

Aaron_> Hi John. Welcome to Sony Online Support. I'm Aaron. Please allow me a moment to review your concern.

Aaron_> Thanks for waiting, John.

Aaron_> Please let me know your concern in details so that I can assist you better.

John > I have a KDL-46Z5100 LCD, and am very happy with it. It has internet interfaces such as Yahoo, Amazon VOD and Netflix. Can these be expanded to include Blockbuster and others?

Aaron_> Sure, I'll be glad to assist you with this.

John Bartolotta> Hello?

Aaron_> I'm sorry for the delay, John.

Aaron_> I'm sorry John. The Sony TVs are designed only to acess the websites like Netflix, Amazon, You tube, Yahoo and Slacker Radio services.

Aaron_> The Blockbuster and other services are not able to acess through the Sony TVs.

John > Can't a firmware be generated to wexpand on these? Seems kind of limiting

Aaron_> John, the Firmware update for those services is not available right now.

Aaron_> It is going to be released soon in the future.

Aaron_> If it released then it will be posted in the "Drivers and softwares" of our support site.

John > "Aaron_> It is going to be released soon in the future." So they ARE going to expand to include the other services?

Aaron_> Please bookmark our "Drivers and softwares" section to the check for the future updates.

John > I already have it bookmarked, and I also have an ethernet connection so the updates are automatic. So you saying that they intend to issue a firmware to update connectibity to the other services?

Aaron_> Yes, you can perform the Network update directly through the Internet.

Aaron_> Yes, John. The Sony is going to expand the Internet services.

John > Will this be on existing products, or just new products?

Aaron_> The Update should be compatible for all the TVs that supports streaming videos.

John > Great thank you? Any idea how far into the future?

Aaron_> I'm sorry, We do not have the estimated date for the release of the Firmware update.

So it appears that they plan on updating their internet connectivity.
post #1850 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

So it appears that they plan on updating their internet connectivity.

I seem to remember reading an article a few months ago (around CES maybe) about how Sony planned to roll out their own video streaming service to compete with all the others out there. It would basically take the video offerings that they have on the Playstation Network and make them available to all of their other internet connected TVs/BD players/etc. It would only make sense that they'd enable this via firmware updates to all the existing Sony hardware out there. So we should expect to see at least one more firmware update for the Z5100 series. Hopefully we'll get some other services (like Blockbuster and Pandora) along with it.
post #1851 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

However, Netflix is supposed to throttle your speed accordingly, which unfortunately decreases resolution, and in worst case situations, this creates buffering issues, which lead to the pausing.

This is why I always recommend to anyone who wants to stream HD to any device, should use hardwired 100 mbps or Gigabit (where it can be used).

Please note that there is a lot of confusion over mbps (mega bits) and Mbps (mega bytes) per second. Broadband providers and networking equipment manufacturers always use mega bits...I suppose because it sounds faster.

And that throttling/buffering issue is why I'm resisting the boss on spending money to upgrade my router to wireless 802.11n from "g" and buying the WiFi station/port for the Z5100. After dropping a few hundred bucks and hours of hookup, getting pauses on a Netflix feed would be unacceptable on our allegedly 12 Mbps/Mbs Comcast connection.

BTW, the usual convention is Mbps or Mbs for Megabits per second and MBps or MBs for Megabytes per second. The "K"s and "M"s get capped to denote the magnitude and the little "b" is bits and the capital "B" is bytes. And yes, service providers and manufacturers have typically used "bits per second" instead of "bytes per second" to make the performance sound more impressive. Since internal operations in a PC are now so fast, most data transfer speeds are referred to in Megabytes (MB) because the numbers are substantial without being absurd or puny.
post #1852 of 2287
I have a weird question the clock on my z5100 doesn't seem to be keeping the right time which is causing the tv guide feature to be wack
post #1853 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkellogg1981 View Post

I have a weird question the clock on my z5100 doesn't seem to be keeping the right time which is causing the tv guide feature to be wack

Hello hkellogg1981,
What firmware are you running?
Firmware aa0153pn issued on 01/19/2010 should address this problem.

What does this do?
Sony has designed the BRAVIA® Televisions software update process to be customer friendly. This software update (version aa0153pn) provides the following benefits:
  • Adds support for the Netflix® online movie rental service to the BRAVIA Internet Video® function.
  • Provides additional functionality for Yahoo® widgets.
  • Improves the use of the Network functions (Internet Video and Widgets).
  • Improves audio & video synchronization when playing network videos.
  • Addresses intermittent issues experienced by some customers, including the following:
  • The television picture freezes momentarily, then the TV powers off and then on. This may occur shortly after powering on the TV, while viewing programming, changing channels, or using the TV's xross media bar.
  • When changing channels, the TV powers off and the POWER/STANDBY LED flashes red. Pushing the Power button again (only once) restores the TV's function.
  • When viewing 1080p formatted signals through the Component (Y/Pb/Pr) Input, a horizontal scratch-like line may appear on the screen.
  • Intermittent response from a Remote Commander® control unit when the TV is first turned on and the backlight is dim.
  • The television turns off and then back on again when powering on the TV with a programmable Remote Commander.
  • Correction of the "Current time has been lost. Please reset the time" message repeatedly coming up

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu...=5423&os_id=25

-Best,
John
post #1854 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugnax555 View Post

I seem to remember reading an article a few months ago (around CES maybe) about how Sony planned to roll out their own video streaming service to compete with all the others out there. It would basically take the video offerings that they have on the Playstation Network and make them available to all of their other internet connected TVs/BD players/etc. It would only make sense that they'd enable this via firmware updates to all the existing Sony hardware out there. So we should expect to see at least one more firmware update for the Z5100 series. Hopefully we'll get some other services (like Blockbuster and Pandora) along with it.

It would be nice. We'll just have to wait and see.
post #1855 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Interesting conversation that I had with a Sony rep earlier.



So it appears that they plan on updating their internet connectivity.

Well great news, thank you very much for investigating it! I await with baited breath.
post #1856 of 2287
Pugnax and Smarty Pants...Thanks for clearing that up. As soon as I saw the posts I remembered using these abbreviations: MB/s Mb/s. I guess that's why Executive Management pulled me from Engineering to IT Management!

Much appreciated...Will
post #1857 of 2287
You know...The rumor around the campfire is that we will have 5.1 DD by year's end. Initially, Netflix confirmed 1080p, and when the story hit, it was back-pedal city.

Since we know that 1080p will most likely be HD Lite, I'll take the 6 channel discrete for now!
post #1858 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

Pugnax and Smarty Pants...Thanks for clearing that up. As soon as I saw the posts I remembered using these abbreviations: MB/s Mb/s. I guess that's why Executive Management pulled me from Engineering to IT Management!

Much appreciated...Will

Ah, no credit to me Will?
post #1859 of 2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by CEB II View Post

Ah, no credit to me Will?

Thank you CEB.
post #1860 of 2287
I apoligize CEB! I was spending so much time finding all of my references that were wrong, I neglected to give you credit, where it was certainly due!

Again...My apologies!
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