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Emotiva ERC-1 CD Players Owners Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by lngbruno View Post

As far as chu, penngray and krapapple goes, when one reads just their past several dozen posts in the various threads, one picks up the fact that they appear to all belong to a narcissistic society.

L

Well, considering that those 3 posters individually have each brought an infinite more knowledge to this site than most here I guess you should only hope to one day be that "narcissistic."

Also, how is it narcissistic to ask people to back up their claims, most of which are at best case silly and at worst an embarrassment to the site and hobby. I just don’t get it. Why is it always the very knowledgeable here who are given a hard time when they try to either educate or ask for a clarification on something?

Also, while I appreciate the OPs effort in posting up a review of the player I really feel that these reviews are completely useless because none of these tests are ever done with all the variables removed. So it just becomes another exercise in "of course it sounds better than ____________." Ultimately becoming a justifacation of the purchase or worse a blatent advertisement.

Also, what is with the cable break in jibberjabber? That is a myth, nothing more. I am tired of reading about stuff like that because it looks like people throw out terms like that to try to sound more knowledgeable. It actually works in reverse. Besides, the whole "cables and interconnects make a difference" issue has been so beaten to death here. If you think they do then prove it.
post #62 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

Well, considering that those 3 posters individually have each brought an infinite more knowledge to this site than most here I guess you should only hope to one day be that "narcissistic."

Also, how is it narcissistic to ask people to back up their claims, most of which are at best case silly and at worst an embarrassment to the site and hobby. I just don't get it. Why is it always the very knowledgeable here who are given a hard time when they try to either educate or ask for a clarification on something?

Also, while I appreciate the OPs effort in posting up a review of the player I really feel that these reviews are completely useless because none of these tests are ever done with all the variables removed. So it just becomes another exercise in "of course it sounds better than ____________." Ultimately becoming a justifacation of the purchase or worse a blatent advertisement.

Also, what is with the cable break in jibberjabber? That is a myth, nothing more. I am tired of reading about stuff like that because it looks like people throw out terms like that to try to sound more knowledgeable. It actually works in reverse. Besides, the whole "cables and interconnects make a difference" issue has been so beaten to death here. If you think they do then prove it.

Like my mother always told me, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." I have no problem with your issues and how you stated them, but a few of the people on AVS have just been staring at the screen too long. I don't doubt their knowledge or wisdom on the AV topic, they just say things in a mean spirited and pissy way. I for one don't like it and tend to drop off of threads once they get involved. I don't think that is good for the AVS community. I know it takes some of the enjoyment away from my time here. Mom also said, "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything." They just seem angry and that is sad because I thought this was for fun.

There is a way to question and to criticize without being an Ass. Am I any good at it, maybe not, but that is why I try to keep my negative responses to a minimum.

Maybe I'm just too sensitive...

I will now step down off of my soap box...Good day.
post #63 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by lngbruno View Post

Glenee,

Full Disclosure - I don't own any Emotiva products, nor have I ever owned any of their products. However, I have a few friends who do and the products seem to provide synergy in their systems.

Thanks for keeping this thread on topic. Your initial comments are very encouraging about the merits of this CDP and I hope you will share more thoughts at a later date.

As far as chu, penngray and krapapple goes, when one reads just their past several dozen posts in the various threads, one picks up the fact that they appear to all belong to a narcissistic society.

L

We all have mirrors on our monitors because we all know how important it is to be suave. Just like in Blue Velvet.
post #64 of 881
Comparing Pabst Blue Ribbon to Heineken would be much easier to do around here....

larry
post #65 of 881
Quote:


As far as chu, penngray and krapapple goes, when one reads just their past several dozen posts in the various threads, one picks up the fact that they appear to all belong to a narcissistic society.


Wow, that was nice...I have owned more Emotiva products then most actually

I go out of my way to help people on here daily, hour by hour, my PM is 99% full all the time (Pet peeve!!!).....Im also a measuring/science kind of guy that BUILDS his own speakers. Is that Narcississtic? I guess.
post #66 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeronesia View Post

Like my mother always told me, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." I have no problem with your issues and how you stated them, but a few of the people on AVS have just been staring at the screen too long. I don't doubt their knowledge or wisdom on the AV topic, they just say things in a mean spirited and pissy way. I for one don't like it and tend to drop off of threads once they get involved. I don't think that is good for the AVS community. I know it takes some of the enjoyment away from my time here. Mom also said, "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything." They just seem angry and that is sad because I thought this was for fun.

There is a way to question and to criticize without being an Ass. Am I any good at it, maybe not, but that is why I try to keep my negative responses to a minimum.

Maybe I'm just too sensitive...

I will now step down off of my soap box...Good day.


hmmm....Chu is completely objective. I post with a certain bluntness that I guess offends some but I doubt that is actually rude (internet forums tend to polarize things though). Im the same way in board rooms so I have seen raised eyebrows in person

While your mother is right about being nice I will one up you and post that my dad () a long time ago said "honesty and making sure the facts are know is more important then being liked"
post #67 of 881
I can literally piss over a train box car. Do I win? Yes it can be proven scientifically we just need an unbiased film crew.
post #68 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

1) Emotiva provides their own proof or actually lack of proof with respect to FCC compliance. The manual must contain the following 'boilerplate' phrase if it is indeed so certified and tested.


For products sold in Canada there also ought to be a relevant notation in the manual stating something like this...


I also see no mention whatsoever cautioning the user because the unit uses a laser.

2) My proof that corners have been cut are evidenced by the absence of relevant testing peculiar to the country or countries the product is sold in. Further the manual lacks appropriate safety admonitions. That means they didn't spend the money to test the unit, they didn't spend the money to have someone write a decent manual. Those are corners cut and the savings don't go to you.

3) There's a CE designation (real easy to silkscreen those on!) but CE can refer to just about anything. There ought to be a reference in the manual something like this...

...product described in this instruction manual is in compliance with the corresponding technical standards such as EN60065, EN55013, EN55020 and EN61000-3-2, -3-3.

There's great leniency with the CE standard because you can basically just self-certify. Now, that's generally not a problem unless something happens at which point you'd better have the supporting doc's and tests to back up your self-certification. Also, FWIW, CE is not allowed in the US as a substitute for FCC reg's.
Read above. Check manual.

I own Emotiva products and was curious as to some of your comments. There has to be some leniency with the rules and regulations. I'm sure mass marketed products just apply every testing certification under the sun to cover them. They also put other information such as patents on the back, which is unnecessary.

Also, the Behringer example that was used is from 2006. I looked on their most recent digital product offerings, such as mixers, and wasn't able to find any FCC information, nor even a CE certification in the manual. Behringer is obviously much larger than Emotiva.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/images/l...7_Rear_XXL.jpg

You would think with them having the threat of a major fine, they would err on the side of caution. If they have been 3 years without a change, then I would guess there is some legal loophole.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but if other smaller Manufacturers can get away with it, then I'm sure it isn't an evil Emotiva conspiracy.
post #69 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

1) Emotiva provides their own proof or actually lack of proof with respect to FCC compliance. The manual must contain the following 'boilerplate' phrase if it is indeed so certified and tested.


For products sold in Canada there also ought to be a relevant notation in the manual stating something like this...


I also see no mention whatsoever cautioning the user because the unit uses a laser.

2) My proof that corners have been cut are evidenced by the absence of relevant testing peculiar to the country or countries the product is sold in. Further the manual lacks appropriate safety admonitions. That means they didn't spend the money to test the unit, they didn't spend the money to have someone write a decent manual. Those are corners cut and the savings don't go to you.

3) There's a CE designation (real easy to silkscreen those on!) but CE can refer to just about anything. There ought to be a reference in the manual something like this...

...product described in this instruction manual is in compliance with the corresponding technical standards such as EN60065, EN55013, EN55020 and EN61000-3-2, -3-3.

There's great leniency with the CE standard because you can basically just self-certify. Now, that's generally not a problem unless something happens at which point you'd better have the supporting doc's and tests to back up your self-certification. Also, FWIW, CE is not allowed in the US as a substitute for FCC reg's.
Read above. Check manual.

What are the FCC requirements? If you are that concerned I am sure the Emotiva would be more than happy to answer a succinct and to the point email from you.

We sell a controller with 12v relay and ethernet connection. There is no CE/UL/other listing for it. None is required by law. Now I have had electricians ask about the UL listing, but it isn't a requirement.
post #70 of 881
I only ask a company once and that's already happened. If they ignored it, deleted it, or it found its way into the spam bin or filter, I don't know. Myself, I prefer to get responses in writing. The general requirements are given in FCC Part 15B which covers emissions by devices that are unintentional radiators. IOW, a side consequence of their usage is that they emit RFI/EMI. That's why you'll find devices that employ switching power supplies, DAC's and DSP's subject to this. Check the manuals from say Onkyo's CDP's or other major manufacturers and you'll find they have no problem with this. The smaller outfits routinely skirt this issue yet claim parity and then some with the big boys. I imagine if your product was a DAC it too would be subject.
post #71 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason1976 View Post

I own Emotiva products and was curious as to some of your comments. There has to be some leniency with the rules and regulations. I'm sure mass marketed products just apply every testing certification under the sun to cover them. They also put other information such as patents on the back, which is unnecessary.

Also, the Behringer example that was used is from 2006. I looked on their most recent digital product offerings, such as mixers, and wasn't able to find any FCC information, nor even a CE certification in the manual. Behringer is obviously much larger than Emotiva.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/images/l...7_Rear_XXL.jpg

You would think with them having the threat of a major fine, they would err on the side of caution. If they have been 3 years without a change, then I would guess there is some legal loophole.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but if other smaller Manufacturers can get away with it, then I'm sure it isn't an evil Emotiva conspiracy.

In the example you give (assuming the picture is accurate) it would seem that Behringer is likely flouting Part 15A seeing as it's a pro product and not specifically marketed to homes or small businesses. That they're not in apparent compliance does not appear to be due to a legal loophole but rather more of the same behavior. I'll check on a few other products and send of a letter to the FCC. I'm not looking at this as an evil Emotiva conspiracy. It just happened to be the topic of the thread (the brand that is).
post #72 of 881
Does the 384 instead of the 192 oversampling make a big difference in the sound? Looking at getting one of these and the write up makes a big deal about it.. thanks in advance.
post #73 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

In the example you give (assuming the picture is accurate) it would seem that Behringer is likely flouting Part 15A seeing as it's a pro product and not specifically marketed to homes or small businesses. That they're not in apparent compliance does not appear to be due to a legal loophole but rather more of the same behavior. I'll check on a few other products and send of a letter to the FCC. I'm not looking at this as an evil Emotiva conspiracy. It just happened to be the topic of the thread (the brand that is).

That could make sense. I looked at a few of their amps as well and none had any compliance standards stated in their manuals. I just found it odd that the FCC publicly targeted them and they didn't really change anything.
post #74 of 881
Depends on the kind of amp as to whether the standard applies. Now, you'd mentioned Behringer. Take a look over at QSC and click on the manual for say their DSP4...also a digital processor. You'll find they do indicate compliance. Some folks play by the rules and don't have to worry about being caught. Others hope nothing happens. I'm sure we'll be hearing about Behringer again in the news and maybe Emotiva too along with a host of others.
post #75 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

Does the 384 instead of the 192 oversampling make a big difference in the sound? Looking at getting one of these and the write up makes a big deal about it.. thanks in advance.

Oversampling basically allows you to take the filter out of the analog domain (where it's relatively costly to implement) and do it digitally where it's cheap. As to whether it makes a big difference, I don't know. I do know that in CDP's that implement different degrees of oversampling, say like the Chord Red Reference CD Player (44.1, 88.2, 176.4) according to the work done by Miller Audio Research, the performance varies with only the highest value achieving an acceptable performance according to their tests. For example, at 44.1 they've got problems with stopband rejection (images that ought to be removed by the filter that find their way back into the audible audio portion) while at 176.4 they don't. Now, I don't know if it's severe enough to be audible but if it is, you just might find the lower setting to impart a certain richness or lushness to the sound while the higher setting sounds more crisp or defined. So, in the absence of actual measurements, there's nothing to indicate whether Emotiva's product will behave the same or different.
post #76 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeronesia View Post

Dude, why so inappropriate? Do you think it's funny? I'm sure you have a lot of knowledge and it would be nice to hear something of value from you on this thread.

I thought it was very funny

hence appropriate.
post #77 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

Does the 384 instead of the 192 oversampling make a big difference in the sound?

There's no plausible reason it should. 192 kHz SR is already overkill. (Btw, Do they really use 384 and 192 as the comparison values? Typically oversampling SRs of CD players are multiples of the Redbook 44.1. So 4x is 176.4, and 8x is 352.8; here it appears they are using the DVD-standard 48kHz as the baseline instead)

But of course, many people are suckers for the 'higher numbers must mean better performance' trick.
post #78 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I post with a certain bluntness that I guess offends some but I doubt that is actually rude
"honesty and making sure the facts are know is more important then being liked"

We agree, you post with a certain bluntness.

Although it is admirable to honestly have the facts know in business I have found that being liked is more lucrative.
post #79 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

At least you know up front how seriously to take his review.

As far as the dimming display, I've never had a CD player that couldn't dim the display, or completely turn it off. If that's the most compelling feature, I guess I'll pass.

Sorry I have been away! I am sure I could have added some clarity as to the nature of certain posters.

As to a dimming display, I don't believe I have ever had a dimming display on a CD player. Nice feature.
post #80 of 881
Here is an interested buyer and here are three pages of the owner's thread. The only new things I've learned about the CDP so far are dimming lights and some US electrical warning label is missing... c'mon... Let's stick to the thread title... Where are more reviews from owners. I understand it's just been released, but at three pages I was expected more Emotiva CDP related meaty experiences.

-- of course me adding this comment doesn't help much Well, hopefully it'll help a little over time.
post #81 of 881
Try their forum.
post #82 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by razel View Post

Here is an interested buyer and here are three pages of the owner's thread. The only new things I've learned about the CDP so far are dimming lights and some US electrical warning label is missing... .

You forgot the whole "switching interconnects abilty" thing and the bonus of learning about the "cable burn in" thing.
post #83 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by razel View Post

some US electrical warning label is missing....

I'd say this info is all you need to know in order to scratch it from consideration and halt any other curiosities about it.
post #84 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Now, I don't know if it's severe enough to be audible but if it is, you just might find the lower setting to impart a certain richness or lushness to the sound while the higher setting sounds more crisp or defined.

So, how do you get it all? Get a unit with a filter?
post #85 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Comparing Pabst Blue Ribbon to Heineken would be much easier to do around here....

larry

Only if done DBT
post #86 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfeust View Post

I can literally piss over a train box car. Do I win? Yes it can be proven scientifically we just need an unbiased film crew.

Is that a full scale train car? Or, one of those HO type scales
post #87 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

I disagree. They have been very helpful on getting the most out of one's own money on CDP.

being narcissistic and knowledgable are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
this forum gets abused by people by individuals with anger management issues and personality disorders but I digress... (btw not implying that i think any of the implicated fit the categories but more of a general observation)

i also would like to hear more from current owners about perceived or measured performance--whether ascertained via perceptual tools or bench tests. anyone know how it does with dirty or scratched discs?
post #88 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

anyone know how it does with dirty or scratched discs?

Good question. I got a DVD from Netflix the other day that I knew would not play in my DVD player so I stuck it in the BD player and got through the whole thing without a hicup. I'm all for players that can overcome these issues.
post #89 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

being narcissistic and knowledgable are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
this forum gets abused by people by individuals with anger management issues and personality disorders but I digress... (btw not implying that i think any of the implicated fit the categories but more of a general observation.

AVS being a big forum, I only have time to visit two or three sections so I can't judge the rest but as for this section goes, I would like to see some examples that back up your statement.
post #90 of 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeronesia View Post

So, how do you get it all? Get a unit with a filter?

No. You simply can't get it all if the unit fundamentally behaves differently at the different settings.
While it ought not to make a difference using the different oversampling rates, that presumes that at each setting the manufacturer has done their utmost to extract what's on the CD and nothing more. If you look at the measurements of say the Chord Red Reference player, you'll find that it's not until you're at the highest setting that you no longer have any issues with the stopband rejection. As you go to the lower settings, it gets worse and by worse I mean that false audio images that ought to have been rejected by the filter have progressively made their way back into the audio spectrum. I can't say for certain if they're audible but if I were to guess, I'd say that there's a good chance there's at least a subtle difference between 44.1 and 176.4. Whether that was their intent I can't say. All I can do is point out that if there's an audbile difference there what I 'think' the reason is due to. For all I know this may be beneficial to you and your personal tastes. OTOH, Behringer used to make a product (maybe still does) called the UltraQ. It could be placed in between the preamp and amp (and for receivers that have a pre-out, you could stick it there) and maybe even between the CDP and whatever you're plugging it into. It had the ability for the user to dial in, or defeat, the amount of 'tubeiness' desired among other features. It at least gave you some measure of fine control of how you wanted to alter the signal to your tastes.
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