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The "Official" Pioneer VSX-1019AH Owner's Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 5121
So (despite what I said a few posts ago), I did not leave the volume issue alone. I decided to go back in and try what Tiny0011 suggested and adjusting the channels up proportionately. It definitely resulted in the same balance and boosted volumes (by about 5-10db). So I did some more research and here is what I found:

- MCACC set my speakers to output at between -2.5db and -0.5db with the lowest value being for the Left Front speaker. Overall balance and sound quality was excellent but the volume was a bit lacking.
- After reading Tiny0011's recommendation, I boosted all of the channels by the same number: 1db and I got more volume.
- I then checked the manual and found this on page 83 talking about manual speaker adjustments: "Adjust the level of the left channel. This will be the reference speaker level, so you may want to keep the level around 0.0dB so that you’ll have plenty of room to adjust the other speaker levels."
- So now I am thinking there is a 'flaw' in MCACC where it measures sound from the left front speaker first to use a reference but it doesn't then re-adjust that to the reference level and adjust each speaker accordingly. I think MCACC should measure the speaker for FL but then set the output level at 0.0.
- So I went back in and adjusted the FL speaker to 0.0 (from my new position at -1.5db) and added another 1.5db to each other speaker. Results? Same great overall balance in the room but MUCH better volume. I used to have my volume on level set to -45 and now I need to change it to -60. This gives me audible volume from 9 feet away although I wouldnt typically listen at that level. But last night I could easily listen to music at -50, TV at -40 (didnt retest the BD player).

A few other things that can boost volume:
1) Turn off the Dynamic Range Control.
2) Turn on the sound retriever (even for DD and other surround encoded tracks).

These may change the true sound slightly but I am happy with the results and increased volume. Try it out if you are having volume issues.
post #212 of 5121
I am a new owner of the 1019. I've had it for about a week, and I have an issue I could use some help with.

My input for TV is a FIOS set top box connected via HDMI 1. I have tried audio over HDMI alone, and also with an Optical cable. No matter how I connect, I can't get any sound out of the center channel speaker. I've checked the online setup, and the speakers are set to "small" which is what the Pioneer on screen help recommends. The auto MCACC works fine for the other 4 speakers and the subwoofer, but no change will make the speaker show up. If I connect using the 2 RCA plugs will I be able to get the 5.1 sound out of the FIOS box?

The speakers are Boston Acoustics surround system in-a-box MCS 100. The 5 speakers that are working sound great to my untrained ear. I'd very much like to get the center speaker working.

The specifications for the center speaker are different than for the satellite speakers. Am I risking damage to my system if I hook it up as say the "Front Left" instead of the "Center" to see if the speaker is the problem? Is there a chance that the speaker wire or connecting posts are bad? Is there something I can test out to see what the problem might be?

To get acceptable sound to watch TV I've resorted to disabling the center speaker in the setup screen, which causes the 1019 to send the sound that would go the center speaker to the two front speakers. This sounds OK, but I really would like to have a 5.1 system instead of a 4.1 system.

Thanks for any suggestions you might have.

Emil
post #213 of 5121
Help. I love this AVR, but I cannot figure out what setting to use, to get the sub to come on (JBL PB12) when listening to music. I have tried ext. Stereo and all of the others.
post #214 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil_M View Post

I am a new owner of the 1019. I've had it for about a week, and I have an issue I could use some help with.

My input for TV is a FIOS set top box connected via HDMI 1. I have tried audio over HDMI alone, and also with an Optical cable. No matter how I connect, I can't get any sound out of the center channel speaker. I've checked the online setup, and the speakers are set to "small" which is what the Pioneer on screen help recommends. The auto MCACC works fine for the other 4 speakers and the subwoofer, but no change will make the speaker show up. If I connect using the 2 RCA plugs will I be able to get the 5.1 sound out of the FIOS box?

So when you run the MCACC tests, do you ever hear sound coming from the Center speaker? During the tests, you should hear sound coming form each of the speakers at one time or another. If not, then I would definitely check the cabling from the speaker to the receiver.

If you want to "test" things by swapping the center speaker with another one (say the left front) just to see if you hear anything come out of it, that would certainly help verify if you have a speaker problem, or what. I can't imaging that you have a problem with the binding posts, but you could have an issue with the center channel Amp I suppose.

You are on the right track that you need to verify that your center channel cable and speaker are working. Once you know that, then you can work on isolating an issue with the receiver.

As far as getting 5.1 out of your FIOS box, you need to use either HDMI or Optical. You can't get true Dolby Digital 5.1 sound out of the 2 RCA plugs. Remember that if you have both HDMI and Optical connected, you have to use the "Signal Sel" function on the remote to select the sound source - otherwise, you will always hear the HDMI.

I am not sure if FIOS boxes output DD 5.1 over HDMI or not. I would think they would over the optical connection for sure. When you get true DD 5.1, it should show up on the receiver display.
post #215 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by tex94 View Post

Right. And no receiver will be able to display anything but PCM. This is because the PS3 is decoding the original digital stream (DTS-HD MA, DD TrueHD, etc.) into another digital stream called PCM and sending that over HDMI to the receiver (where the receiver will decode it to analog via its DACs to send to the speakers). Since the receiver gets the PCM it doesn't know how it was originally recorded. None of that should matter though as the sound quality should be exactly the same whether the PS3 or the receiver decodes it.

Still, I have to admit it is rewarding to see TrueHD or DTS-HD MA light up on the receiver. You won't get that with the PS3 but it won't impact the sound quality one iota.

Will this receiver matrix a blu-ray 5.1 HD audio PCM from PS3 to 7.1? I am tossed between this and the Onkyo 607 as an upgrade. I have the 605 but it doesn't matrix the PCM.
post #216 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticalJet View Post

Will this receiver matrix a blu-ray 5.1 HD audio PCM from PS3 to 7.1? I am tossed between this and the Onkyo 607 as an upgrade. I have the 605 but it doesn't matrix the PCM.

Yes.
post #217 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by tex94 View Post

Yes.

thanks
post #218 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by tex94 View Post

- So now I am thinking there is a 'flaw' in MCACC where it measures sound from the left front speaker first to use a reference but it doesn't then re-adjust that to the reference level and adjust each speaker accordingly. I think MCACC should measure the speaker for FL but then set the output level at 0.0.

I know you've found a workable solution, but I wonder what the people who frequent the dedicated MCACC thread would say about all this. Maybe it's a MCACC flaw, maybe it isn't, but perhaps they would have an explanation of the whys and hows of your result. Just thought I'd mention it in case you were still curious. At least, you got me a little curious now.
post #219 of 5121
I checked my VSX-919 at lunch time today, and the Front Left channel was set at 0dB, and everything else was +/- from there...
post #220 of 5121
@ TINY & TEX Hey, I really appreciate the heads up on the manual setting of the speaker levels. I set my LF to 0dB and listened to each speaker as I adjusted the dB level. The unit switches back and forth automatically from the LF to which ever other speaker you choose and makes it easy to adjust levels. When I finished, I looked into saving my settings with one of the 6 presets but could not(at least I did not find a way). Also, if you again run Auto MCACC, the manually adjusted settings are lost and of course the auto settings are then kept. But--Hold IT---I will post the solution in next post
post #221 of 5121
For those that think that they may lose settings: You can copy your manually Channel Level adjustments into one or more of the 6 Memory settings.

HOME MENU--MCAA DATA CHECK--CHANNEL LEVEL--HOME MENU--DATA MANAGEMENT--MCACC MEMORY COPY--Select between 1-ALL or 2-LEVEL & DISTANCE and then use From which 1-6 Memories and To which 1-6 Memories.

If you want to check that these settings copied and are kept:
HOME MENU--MCACC DATA CHECK--b.CHANNEL LEVEL--choose Memory 1-6 and you can see all the settings are there.

Just helping out--for those that don't want to read the manual or experiment. TRY IT>>>>>>>>>>>>.YOU'RE LIKE IT>>>>>>>>I PROMISE
I for one enjoy all the settings that this A/V receiver has.
post #222 of 5121
I am almost ready to buy. Does this receiver play a digital input source (HDMI or optical) through zone 2. My older Onkyo 601 does not. Thanks for your input about this output.
post #223 of 5121
Thanks Aross.

I take the Uverse right to the HDTV with Optical out to Receiver so that I can listen to TV from it's speakers or if we wish in full surround sound.

I have heard many different feelings about HDMI and Uverse, so I am a little nervous going HDMI for the video part, not even sure if I have a fully up to date firmware in the Uverse box (though we just received an update last night from at&t to all the boxes)

I am hoping to start setting up tonight. I keep getting delayed with one thing or another.
post #224 of 5121
What you are describing should work. The uVerse box will output HDMI video and stereo audio to your HDTV, and Dolby Digital 5.1 via optical to your receiver.

The only drawback is that you are going to have to switch sources on the TV, and on the receiver if you have more than one source.

By running everything through the receiver, you only have to switch in one place - but you need to use the receiver whenever you watch TV...
post #225 of 5121
Ok here I be, with more questions.

I ran the full setup, then adjusted the speakers to be all small.
I did not get the oomph of boom from the rear speakers when that thunder THX intro came on, like I used to with my old Sony receiver.

I then turned up my sub (after checking its settings were all ok) Still no thunder boom from rears. I will have to turn it back down though, because overall it is now too much sub. (Things falling off the walls) I will be putting back to where it always was.
I wish to reiterate that I am not looking for messy boomy bass. It is just that particular THX intro I know well, and the bass is missing from the rear. It definatly had more thunderous boom before.

I am not fully sure about the standing wave adjustment. I am told and have read to try turning if "off". I don't see an off. By off do we mean set it to 0.0db?

I wish I had something besides that intro to go on, since to test it, I have to turn on the PS3 and re-start that game all the time. To be able to see the GUI I have to have it set to BD, but that is also where the PS3 outputs to.

One other question (for those with a PS3) on the receiver it says Advanced Game. I thought it would say something like PCM. Is this what others see, or perhaps I should use a different sound field?

Oops came up with one more question-
Each time I run the MCAA, am I overwriting? I was wondering if I should reset the receiver and start anew, but if it just overwrites then that would be the same thing I should think.

I have to stop adjusting for the night, since it is getting too late for all the noise, but if I can get some more help in the meantime to help understand this more advanced receiver I would appreciate it.

post #226 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aenygma View Post

Ok here I be, with more questions.

I ran the full setup, then adjusted the speakers to be all small.
I did not get the oomph of boom from the rear speakers when that thunder THX intro came on, like I used to with my old Sony receiver.

I then turned up my sub (after checking its settings were all ok) Still no thunder boom from rears. I will have to turn it back down though, because overall it is now too much sub. (Things falling off the walls) I will be putting back to where it always was.
I wish to reiterate that I am not looking for messy boomy bass. It is just that particular THX intro I know well, and the bass is missing from the rear. It definatly had more thunderous boom before.

I am not fully sure about the standing wave adjustment. I am told and have read to try turning if "off". I don't see an off. By off do we mean set it to 0.0db?

I wish I had something besides that intro to go on, since to test it, I have to turn on the PS3 and re-start that game all the time. To be able to see the GUI I have to have it set to BD, but that is also where the PS3 outputs to.

One other question (for those with a PS3) on the receiver it says Advanced Game. I thought it would say something like PCM. Is this what others see, or perhaps I should use a different sound field?

Oops came up with one more question-
Each time I run the MCAA, am I overwriting? I was wondering if I should reset the receiver and start anew, but if it just overwrites then that would be the same thing I should think.

I have to stop adjusting for the night, since it is getting too late for all the noise, but if I can get some more help in the meantime to help understand this more advanced receiver I would appreciate it.


A couple of things -

1. You might want to set your rear speakers to large if they're able to handle more bass.
2. If not, then the crossover frequency can be lowered to let the satellites handle more bass (if they can). I think THX requires 80 Hz as the crossover, see if that has been changed (of course this depends on your speakers).
3. Is your LFE channel on? That component is mixed in with regular bass to give you that extra oomph in movie soundtracks, if it's off, then turn it on for that extra kick.

Good luck.
post #227 of 5121
And if all else fails, you can adjust the surround speakers at certain frequencies. It could be that MCACC reduced the volume at say the -63hz freq. You can go in under the Advanced MCACC menu and make changes to boost the volume output at certain frequencies by speaker.

To turn off Standing Wave correction and many of the other audio items you use the 'Audio Paramter' button on the remote. These items only show up on the front display of the AVR (not the OSD) but you can cycle through all of them and make adjustments as needed.
post #228 of 5121
I am having the opposite problem. I find that the MCACC has cranked up my sub (+5dB) to the point that it sounds unnatural. I ended up reducing the Sub level a couple of dB to see if that would help.
post #229 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

I know you've found a workable solution, but I wonder what the people who frequent the dedicated MCACC thread would say about all this. Maybe it's a MCACC flaw, maybe it isn't, but perhaps they would have an explanation of the whys and hows of your result. Just thought I'd mention it in case you were still curious. At least, you got me a little curious now.

Good suggestion. I did pose the question on the MCACC forum and the feedback was pretty consistent:

1) You cannot compare the volume levels displayed by one AVR to another. They will vary by manufacturer and model and are NOT indicative of power.

2) You can boost volume output they way I did but it isn't really going to change anything. The unit will create the same overall volume and will still peak out at the same levels (i.e., when it starts to clip). What this solution does do is boost the volume output. So you will get more sound at a lower reading on the unit but it doesn't really 'improve' any performance.

3) The recommendation was to leave the MCACC settings alone and be happy. You are getting great sound and who cares what the volume level is as long as it is loud enough with great sound for you.

Good advice.
post #230 of 5121
Is anybody bi-amping? I just bought speakers that can do that and I wonder if anybody who does bi-amping can notice a difference.
post #231 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by tex94 View Post

Good suggestion. I did pose the question on the MCACC forum and the feedback was pretty consistent:

1) You cannot compare the volume levels displayed by one AVR to another. They will vary by manufacturer and model and are NOT indicative of power.............

I was well aware of that, how people needlessly concern themselves when receiver volume varies from one model to the next at the same dB settings, wondering if there is something lacking in the lower volume receiver, etc.

I was mostly interested in what they might say about your -2.5dB result for your left front channel, what significant that had if the target is supposed to be 0.0dB, etc. No big deal. I haven't worked with MCACC yet, so just trying to better familiarize myself with the software.

EDIT: ok, nevermind. I read what MacFan had to say about this question in the other thread. Makes sense, as he usually does.
post #232 of 5121
Ok will give those a shot.

When I run MACC each time, am I overwriting the previous settings?
I was wondering if I should do a reset to the receiver, but if it overwrites each time, then there would be no need for that.
post #233 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarcampbell View Post

I am almost ready to buy. Does this receiver play a digital input source (HDMI or optical) through zone 2. My older Onkyo 601 does not. Thanks for your input about this output.

I found my own answer, which is no, it can't output digital from zone 2.
post #234 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by statikcat View Post

I just replaced my Onk 606 with this and really love it!

The only downside so far are:


2) You can't set individual crossovers for each speaker and you can't enable double bass between speakers and the sub.

Otherwise I am stoked about this .. especially for 500$ I paid for it. I could not find a comparable receiver in this range at all. Plus since it is brand new you get the most value from purchasing it.


You should be able to set double bass in the Manual SP settings:
1. Set Front Speaker to "Large"
2. Set Center Speaker to "Large" (if they can reproduce low frequencies)
3. Set Surround Speaker to "Large" (if they can reproduce low frequencies)
4. Set SW (SubWoofer) to "Plus"

If the "Plus" setting, any frequency below the crossover setting is sent to both the speaker as well as the subwoofer.

However, this frequently produces more "muddy" sound and is generally not adviced. Better to leave all speakers as small and let the sub produce all the bass.
post #235 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl@ltDel View Post

Help. I love this AVR, but I cannot figure out what setting to use, to get the sub to come on (JBL PB12) when listening to music. I have tried ext. Stereo and all of the others.

Hey guys and gals, I posted this earlier and nobody replied.


Another question.....
Next week I will be getting in another set of rear speakers. I am wondering if I can use zone 2 to play music from my usb flash drive while the main system plays my PS3 game. I dont like the music in most of the games and I usually go into them and turn the MUSIC off and leave the rest of the sound on (ie. special effects, car engines...blasts...etc).

If I am correct then I will have the best of both worlds, and will be able to listen to my music and experience the game sounds at the same time.

Any help or advice on both issues (bass and zone2) would be greatly appreciated.
post #236 of 5121
I think there is a misconception that is Receiver A generates a particular volume at level x and Receiver B needs a higher level on the volume control to generate the same volume, then Receiver A is better and more powerful.

To understand why Pioneer sets the volume the way they do, you need to know a bit of cinema background. Unlike stereo music, sound in a theater is very tightly controlled. When calibrating in a theater environment, each test tone frequency should produce a particular SPL (measured in dB) at the seating positions. The overall sound dB should be at 75dB. This way, when the scene should be loud, it is. When it should be quiet, it is. A mouse running across the screen should not sound like Godzilla was tramping through the theater!

What Pioneer's MCACC does is calibrate the system so that 0dB on the volume dial equates to the REFERENCE standard in a cinema. In other words, at 0dB, you should be hearing the movie at the sound level you would have heard it at in a cinema! Of course, in many instances, this is WAY too loud for our homes (or at least for our neighbors). So the dB goes into the negative as you turn down the volume, ie. -10dB is 10dB below REFERENCE, or 65dB. It is therefore not surprising that you are not hearing sound until you move the volume knob up. This is NO INDICATION of a receiver's power.

Other manufacturers may choose to represent the volume in a differenct fashion. But after understanding what 0dB represents on a Pioneer AVR, I think that you will agree that it makes a lot of sense.

regards
post #237 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl@ltDel View Post

Hey guys and gals, I posted this earlier and nobody replied.


Another question.....
Next week I will be getting in another set of rear speakers. I am wondering if I can use zone 2 to play music from my usb flash drive while the main system plays my PS3 game. I dont like the music in most of the games and I usually go into them and turn the MUSIC off and leave the rest of the sound on (ie. special effects, car engines...blasts...etc).

If I am correct then I will have the best of both worlds, and will be able to listen to my music and experience the game sounds at the same time.

Any help or advice on both issues (bass and zone2) would be greatly appreciated.

Set your front speakers to SMALL.
It may also work if you set your front speakers to LARGE and the SW (subwoofer) to PLUS. (PLUS only available if the front is set to large)
post #238 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeephok View Post

I think there is a misconception that is Receiver A generates a particular volume at level x and Receiver B needs a higher level on the volume control to generate the same volume, then Receiver A is better and more powerful.

To understand why Pioneer sets the volume the way they do, you need to know a bit of cinema background. Unlike stereo music, sound in a theater is very tightly controlled. When calibrating in a theater environment, each test tone frequency should produce a particular SPL (measured in dB) at the seating positions. The overall sound dB should be at 75dB. This way, when the scene should be loud, it is. When it should be quiet, it is. A mouse running across the screen should not sound like Godzilla was tramping through the theater!

What Pioneer's MCACC does is calibrate the system so that 0dB on the volume dial equates to the REFERENCE standard in a cinema. In other words, at 0dB, you should be hearing the movie at the sound level you would have heard it at in a cinema! Of course, in many instances, this is WAY too loud for our homes (or at least for our neighbors). So the dB goes into the negative as you turn down the volume, ie. -10dB is 10dB below REFERENCE, or 65dB. It is therefore not surprising that you are not hearing sound until you move the volume knob up. This is NO INDICATION of a receiver's power.

Other manufacturers may choose to represent the volume in a differenct fashion. But after understanding what 0dB represents on a Pioneer AVR, I think that you will agree that it makes a lot of sense.

regards

Right. And while Pioneer chooses to set 0db to be the reference point, other manufacturers may have chosen -10db or some other value which creates this perceived sense of power.
post #239 of 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl@ltDel View Post

Hey guys and gals, I posted this earlier and nobody replied.


Another question.....
Next week I will be getting in another set of rear speakers. I am wondering if I can use zone 2 to play music from my usb flash drive while the main system plays my PS3 game. I dont like the music in most of the games and I usually go into them and turn the MUSIC off and leave the rest of the sound on (ie. special effects, car engines...blasts...etc).

If I am correct then I will have the best of both worlds, and will be able to listen to my music and experience the game sounds at the same time.

Any help or advice on both issues (bass and zone2) would be greatly appreciated.

yeephok answered the first part but not the second. The short answer is yes, you could listen to zone 2 in the same room. You will hear the game on your 5.1 setup and then the music (from an analog source or ipod) in your zone 2 speakers. You'll need to hook up the zone 2 speakers via line level out or using the amp assign for the surround back channels but it should work.
post #240 of 5121
Thanks for the help. The Harmony One was having trouble directly selecting an individual HDMI connection. But at your suggestion, I assigned the TV/SAT to HDMI 1 and then reprogrammed the Harmony to select TV/SAT instead. Viola - problem solved. No more remote problems. Now, if I could just figure out why I'm getting a noisy image from my PS3 on the BD HDMI connection - and only that connection - I'll be totally loving this unit.
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