or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Dayton 1000W Plate Amp
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Dayton 1000W Plate Amp

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Drawbacks? It seems reasonable, but I am a newb. I'm considering building a Maelstrom cube and this would mount nicely...i see that it is not an AB amp, is that a problem?

I see it has soft clip circuitry...is that the same as subsonic filter? If so, what Hz and type of filter?
post #2 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by general23cmp View Post

Drawbacks? It seems reasonable, but I am a newb. I'm considering building a Maelstrom cube and this would mount nicely...i see that it is not an AB amp, is that a problem?

I see it has soft clip circuitry...is that the same as subsonic filter? If so, what Hz and type of filter?


ive been looking into this amp as well for when i do my maelstrom build...theres a link at the bottom that shows the modification guide for it.

the SSF comes at 18Hz standard but can be lowered by changing out some of the capacitors...from what i understand you can get it to go all the way down to 8Hz if you so desire...im interested to see what the guys who are familiar with DIY have to say here also

http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/HPSA1000Mod.pdf
post #3 of 15
You might want to consider reading this post in the amplifier testing thread. It is a test of the rack mount version of this amp. At least using the testing methodology in this thread, the amp produced far less than 1000 watts into 4 ohms.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post13714349

I built a sealed Maelstrom and powered it with the Elemental Designs LT1300. This amp uses the Bang and Olufson ICE Power amplifier modules and should put out it's rated power. It also has a built in high pass, but I belive ED can modify it for you.

Regards,

Dennis
post #4 of 15
Go for a Pro amp for the Malx, it needs the power! A properly designed sealed system won't require any SSF either.
post #5 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by djarchow View Post

This amp uses the Bang and Olufson ICE Power amplifier modules and should put out it's rated power.

ICE Power modules are generally only able to put out their rated power for ~25 seconds before they throttle back due to heat build-up. This is in the spec sheet for the modules. Whether or not you have the house current to feed one for anything more than an instantaneous blip or not is a second question, since they usually don't have enough capacitance for more extended rumbles.

In case you are curious, I own two of this type of amp.
post #6 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear5k View Post

ICE Power modules are generally only able to put out their rated power for ~25 seconds before they throttle back due to heat build-up. This is in the spec sheet for the modules. Whether or not you have the house current to feed one for anything more than an instantaneous blip or not is a second question, since they usually don't have enough capacitance for more extended rumbles.

In case you are curious, I own two of this type of amp.

Bear5k

I am pretty sure the ED lt1300 uses the B&O 1000A ICE modlule which has no built in thermal protection like the B&O 1000ASP modules do. This doesn't mean ED/Kiega couldn't build it into the amp, it just isn't there in the amp module. The 1000asp modules will shutdown if they get too hot from continuous output, though that is at a level far less than 1000 watts (I belive it is > 85 watts continuous for an extended period). This shouldn't be a problem for music/movies though.

If this is incorrect, could you point me to the B&O spec sheet you are referring to as I was unable to find anything else about thermal shutdowns in the B&O materials I have.

Thanks and regards,

Dennis
post #7 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by djarchow View Post

Bear5k

I am pretty sure the ED lt1300 uses the B&O 1000A ICE modlule which has no built in thermal protection like the B&O 1000ASP modules do. This doesn't mean ED/Kiega couldn't build it into the amp, it just isn't there in the amp module. The 1000asp modules will shutdown if they get too hot from continuous output, though that is at a level far less than 1000 watts (I belive it is > 85 watts continuous for an extended period). This shouldn't be a problem for music/movies though.

If this is incorrect, could you point me to the B&O spec sheet you are referring to as I was unable to find anything else about thermal shutdowns in the B&O materials I have.

Thanks and regards,

Dennis

Dennis Look at the connection diagram for the 1000A. The 1000A is a DC-bus version of the 1000ASP (this is standard for ICEPower modules).
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com...power1000a.pdf
If you look at the 1000ASP, page 5, you see that maximum run time before thermal shutdown is 15 seconds at 1000W:
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com...000aspdata.pdf
Right beneath that thermal shutdown, you see the continuous output power is 85 watts. For subwoofer use with transients, it is a decent choice, but as Robert Heinlein said, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". In other words, figure out what trade-offs you are making, and be comfortable with them. With ICEPower, there are still trade-offs.

By the way, all that the lack of the thermal protection means is that you run a different risk with thermal shutdown, not that it won't happen at all.
post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear5k View Post

Dennis Look at the connection diagram for the 1000A. The 1000A is a DC-bus version of the 1000ASP (this is standard for ICEPower modules).
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com...power1000a.pdf
If you look at the 1000ASP, page 5, you see that maximum run time before thermal shutdown is 15 seconds at 1000W:
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com...000aspdata.pdf
Right beneath that thermal shutdown, you see the continuous output power is 85 watts. For subwoofer use with transients, it is a decent choice, but as Robert Heinlein said, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". In other words, figure out what trade-offs you are making, and be comfortable with them. With ICEPower, there are still trade-offs.

By the way, all that the lack of the thermal protection means is that you run a different risk with thermal shutdown, not that it won't happen at all.

so does that mean the ed lt/1300 puts out 85 continuos watts with bursts of 1300 watts?
post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by adio View Post

so does that mean the ed lt/1300 puts out 85 continuos watts with bursts of 1300 watts?

I think Audioholics had an article on this not too long ago where they basically said: think of it as an amplifier with XX watts of power and ~16dB of headroom. It's great for transient attacks, but if you are planning to use a boatload of power to try to mitigate Hoffman's Iron Law, then this is not the droid you are looking for. Alternatively, if you have a big sub (e.g., sonosub) that you want to have really loud explosions, but to otherwise run coolly and cheaply, then it's probably a pretty good choice.
post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by adio View Post

so does that mean the ed lt/1300 puts out 85 continuos watts with bursts of 1300 watts?

Almost any amp that isn't the size of a small refrigerator with a lot of heat sinking won't put out it's rated power continuously for long amounts of time, especially with sine waves. They simply get too hot. Look at the amplifier tests thread here in the DIY section. Many of the amps tested don't even make their rated power at all, let alone for minutes on end without shutting down. Music and movies simply don't stress amps (or drivers) like test signals.

I have the LT/1300 powering a sealed Maelstrom-X and it even when I have driven it to clipping it has never shut down even with extended listening. The B&O ICE modules in the ED amp are used in a number of high performance products including Mark Seaton's Submersive as well as his other subs and speakers. I am sure Mark would not use amps in his speakers that weren't capable of going well beyond what a normal user would ever need in a home theater.

Regards,

Dennis
post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by djarchow View Post

Almost any amp that isn't the size of a small refrigerator with a lot of heat sinking won't put out it's rated power continuously for long amounts of time, especially with sine waves. They simply get too hot. Look at the amplifier tests thread here in the DIY section Many of the amps tested don't even make their rated power at all, let alone for minutes on end without shutting down. . Music and movies simply don't stress amps (or drivers) like test signals.

I have the LT/1300 powering a sealed Maelstrom-X and it even when I have driven it to clipping it has never shut down even with extended listening. The B&O ICE modules in the ED amp are used in a number of high performance products including Mark Seaton's Submersive as well as his other subs and speakers. I am sure Mark would not use amps in his speakers that weren't capable of going well beyond what a normal user would ever need in a home theater.

Regards,

Dennis

dennis,
i read it many times. i'm hoping that the lt/1300 makes at least 1000 watts continously and the only thing i have to go on is a video i saw over at ED's website testing the lt1300.
i wish the dayton 1000watt plate amp coulda been tested too.
post #12 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by djarchow View Post

capable of going well beyond what a normal user would ever need in a home theater

Are you sure you are in the right forum? Beyond what a normal user needs? This forum is just about as pure of a shrine to the contrary as it gets! Let's review some recent threads:

  • "My wife said I could turn our garage into a subwoofer, where do I start?"
  • "I don't need ears to post on AVS, help me lose my last bit of hearing!"
  • "There's supposed to be a 2 Hz sine wave in the upcoming Iron Man II. Help me build a sub so my neighbors can hear it!"
And my personal favorite from six months ago:

  • "What did YOU get for Christmas for the police officers who have to keep knocking on your door because of noise complaints?"
post #13 of 15
If that amp is rated at 1000 watts with a 18hz hipass, modifying it to 8hz with a sealed 18" Mal will drop it performence level quite a bit.I would look at some pro amps like the QSC 1450 or 1850HD.They can be had used on ebay cheaper.I've never clipped mine and they do get a work out from time to time.

Real world listening is much easier on amps to, to play Devils advocate. You can watch WOTW in dts and it will never compare to a 10hz sine for two minutes !!!!

Stick with pro amps , you'll never be sorry.

KG
post #14 of 15
I have an 18" Avalanche in a sealed enclosure powered by the PE 1000 watt plate amp and it SUCKS!!!! -- Well it doesn't suck, it's actually amazing, just not when I turn it up or on loud material - then it runs out of juice really fast.

I also have a dual 12" setup where they are powered by the rack-mount version wired @ 8ohms and it runs out of juice very fast as well!

overall I'd say these g-class amps PE is selling are a waste of money (junk) and I wish I would have went the pro-amp route in the first place!
post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

If that amp is rated at 1000 watts with a 18hz hipass, modifying it to 8hz with a sealed 18" Mal will drop it performence level quite a bit.

Yep, watts aren't really an exception to Hoffman's Iron Law, merely a method of enforcing it.


Quote:


Stick with pro amps , you'll never be sorry.

As I said, above, it's about trade-offs. Pro amps come in at the right price and have a low-enough noise/distortion threshold in the pass band for a typicaly subwoofer that they are well-suited to that role. The downside is generally the active cooling fans can be noisy if you actually use a significant portion of that power. To push a kilowatt or two, you also need either a big bank of capacitors inside the amplifier or a beefy electrical circuit to feed it. At 100% efficiency, you basically need a dedicated 15A circuit to supply a 1000W/4 Ohm load, unless you have some way of saving up electrons in your amp. Big caps aren't cheap, and this is another area where pro amps tend to shave nickels vs. a consumer-oriented amp. Of course, there can be a LOT of cost built into a consumer amp that doesn't do anything other than add to its extravagance factor (e.g., large heatsinks machined out of solid billets of aluminum or copper - $$$).
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Dayton 1000W Plate Amp