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Official LG "XXLH90" 240hz LED Owners Forum [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 5

post #121 of 4719
Sorry Itgary -- you are right -- I need to maintain focus on the main topic of this forum which is the LH90. But I'm so darn deprived of information. Only two owners -- You, who seems to like (love??) your LH90 and Paullouisj who is about to return it. I just keep going to BB hoping to see the LH90 in all of its glory one day sooon. I figure if I go to BB several times a day, the LH90 will appear . I'm data deprived.

I was assuming that playing with the LH40 would give me some insight into some of the feature sets of the LH90 such as screen matte finish as well a 120Hz performance -- I'm assuming somewhat similar video performance since the added 120hz of the LH90 is achieved by scanning the backlight. The motion artifacts that I've seen I would assume to be applicable to both the 40 and 90 where Paullouisj's backlight issue would be related to the backlight scanning.

However, you know what they say about assuming...
post #122 of 4719
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by South Side View Post

Sorry Itgary -- you are right -- I need to maintain focus on the main topic of this forum which is the LH90. But I'm so darn deprived of information. Only two owners -- You, who seems to like (love??) your LH90 and Paullouisj who is about to return it. I just keep going to BB hoping to see the LH90 in all of its glory one day sooon. I figure if I go to BB several times a day, the LH90 will appear . I'm data deprived.

I was assuming that playing with the LH40 would give me some insight into some of the feature sets of the LH90 such as screen matte finish as well a 120Hz performance -- I'm assuming somewhat similar video performance since the added 120hz of the LH90 is achieved by scanning the backlight. The motion artifacts that I've seen I would assume to be applicable to both the 40 and 90 where Paullouisj's backlight issue would be related to the backlight scanning.

However, you know what they say about assuming...

Damn I think you hit it right on the money Southside Way to jerky for me to own this unit that claims240hz when it feels like its somewhat better then Vizios attempt @120hz last year IMHO
post #123 of 4719
The dealer who gave me the great price via PM is one of our forum sponsors listed above. I get the impression when going to their site that they are not a stocking dealer with a showroom for all the brands they carry but I'm not sure.
I lucked out in that they happen to be 12 miles down the road so the salespeople at BB are familar with them and APPARENTLY consider them a local stocking dealer for the purpose of their price match since they are headquartered in the greater cleveland area. Still for anyone considering this set their 2100.00 is a great price even if you have to pay shipping. Buying out of state will save you the tax which in most cases is more than any shipping will be. I am confident that with the source being a major sponsor of AVS they have shipping available and will give all of us the same price quote. They also have the sets in stock--so you only have to see one somewhere and decide IF it is for you. Good luck to all on your quests to view/compare.
post #124 of 4719
I purchased an LG 47LH90 for my mom last week (I ordered, she paid )
I've spent less than an hour with setup and watching some TV. I ordered a wall mount and I'll play with the setting more next week.

Paullouisj and ltgary

Have you found the best settings for the 240hz yet?

I also need to see if DISH has the 1080p available on the VIPs yet.
post #125 of 4719
As I've stated in prior posts, I dont play games. I watch tv/movies and for those purposes I dont see a difference with the 240hz on or off so I leave it off. I've done alot of research and this feature was really developed for and is useful for sets with a normal flourescent backlight which is on all the time. LED's are a total different technology. They can individually be turned on and off and brightened and dimmed. IMO I dont think LED's really need the 120hz or 240hz but the manufacturers include them as a marketing gimmic. But that is just IMO and as I've stated I dont play games and have never viewed one on either of my sets. Maybe if I did I would change my OPINION???? Adjust the set to what looks best for either you or your moms eyes and viewing habits and forget all the suggestions from others including me. You're what counts. If it looks good to you and you are satisfied who cares what I or others think of the set and its adjustments? Just dont leave it in the Vivid setting.
post #126 of 4719
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltgary View Post

As I've stated in prior posts, I dont play games. I watch tv/movies and for those purposes I dont see a difference with the 240hz on or off so I leave it off. I've done alot of research and this feature was really developed for and is useful for sets with a normal flourescent backlight which is on all the time. LED's are a total different technology. They can individually be turned on and off and brightened and dimmed. IMO I dont think LED's really need the 120hz or 240hz but the manufacturers include them as a marketing gimmic. But that is just IMO and as I've stated I dont play games and have never viewed one on either of my sets. Maybe if I did I would change my OPINION???? Adjust the set to what looks best for either you or your moms eyes and viewing habits and forget all the suggestions from others including me. You're what counts. If it looks good to you and you are satisfied who cares what I or others think of the set and its adjustments? Just dont leave it in the Vivid setting.

You could have not said it better! If it looks good to you is what counts!
post #127 of 4719
When I first setup the TV i noticed a super jittery picture on the first HD channel I watched. It might have been the "source" and not the TV. I have the same DISH Vip722 DVR and sometimes my recordings act up. I can usually fix it if I jump forward or backward, sometimes I need to stop the show and then re-start.

I worked at a Home Theater place in Sacramento several years back and I can see things that most/many peopel miss.

I was at Bestbuy the other day looking at the wall mounts. They had Transformers on demo; trying to show the difference between 120hz and non-120. The picture on both TVs was total crap. The colors were WAY WAY oversaturated and there was more grain than a box of Wheeties.
post #128 of 4719
I also wanted to give some more info on the LG LEDs.

The BB web site is the only place I (or Peerless) could find the specs on the VESA Mount holes.

The BB site shows:

Ultraslim LCD
Measures 4-1/5" deep and many be mounted on a wall (with optional mounting kit, not included). VESA 400mm x 400mm compatible.

This is WRONG!

I measured the actual TV and the 47LH90 is 200mm x 200mm

I purchased a Peerless PLA50-UNLP last night for the TV. I'll post some photos once I get it installed Thursday or Friday. I wanted to find a mount that will swing the TV around the corner of the wall. It looks like this will work perfect. The mount is rated for 150 lbs, so this 50lb TV should be very little stress on the mount (I think the mount is about 40 lbs)
post #129 of 4719
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltgary View Post

As I've stated in prior posts, I dont play games. I watch tv/movies and for those purposes I dont see a difference with the 240hz on or off so I leave it off. I've done alot of research and this feature was really developed for and is useful for sets with a normal flourescent backlight which is on all the time. LED's are a total different technology. They can individually be turned on and off and brightened and dimmed. IMO I dont think LED's really need the 120hz or 240hz but the manufacturers include them as a marketing gimmic.

You are confusing the benefits of local dimming with frame interpolation (or other motion improvement methods) and neither feature is a marketing gimmick!

Frame interpolation also has nothing to do with the backlight type - whether CCFL or LED - and you may either like it or not: Fact is that LCDs are hold-type-displays that have a worse motion performance than non-hold-type-displays (CRTs, plasmas). The result is that the picture is less sharp, less clear when motion is involved. The reason is the effect of hold-type-displays on the human eye - use the search function and do some more research as there has been written a lot about it.

There are several methods to improve motion handling on LCDs and they have certain advantages (smoother, more detailed motions) and disadvantages (artifacts and/or the so-called "soap effect").

However, some LCDs with local dimming LED backlight employ a method called "backlight scanning" which pulses the screen very rapidly and increases the motion resolution for the whole screen, which results in increased sharpness.

I don't know if your LG supports such a mode but you should get yourself some good demo material with looping horizontal or vertical pans and then run some tests with the different settings.
Try to notice the sharpness of moving objects, especially smaller ones. You may be surprised by the results!


Quote:


Adjust the set to what looks best for either you or your moms eyes and viewing habits and forget all the suggestions from others including me. You're what counts. If it looks good to you and you are satisfied who cares what I or others think of the set and its adjustments? Just dont leave it in the Vivid setting.

Of course the owner should have the last word on everything, but IMHO it's better to make an informed decision than simply making a decision.

This is the same thing like asking in the forum before you buy a TV (for disadvantages or capabilities) or just running into the next shop.

bye
Benny42
post #130 of 4719
Thread Starter 
My 1st HDMI port isnt recognizing anymore just showing LG logo instead of xbox 360..
When this happens If I turn tv off then back on still does not work unless you reset 360.. Then it works, now before you reply I want you to know that its doing this to both xbox's I have tried its just random though and doesnt happen everytime... the 240hz + BL fluctuation is killing this set for me...
post #131 of 4719
So the quesiton of how many LED zones has been in question, I decided to email LG and ask.

I received and email back stating; "it depends on the size of the tv. The 55" has 240 LED zones..."

Hopefully this clears up that question. I can't wait for Robert of Value Electroics flat-panle shoot-out next weekend! He has added the 55LH90 to the list so we will now get to hear about a professionally calibrated LH90 in comparison to other TVs as well.
post #132 of 4719
I HOPE(Please God, please) that after somebody has a ISF calibration that they can share all the settings with us. This set has so many user adjustments that if you get all the variables you should be able to duplicate them. Just dont have all the test equipment to get everything right.
post #133 of 4719
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltgary View Post

I HOPE(Please God, please) that after somebody has a ISF calibration that they can share all the settings with us. This set has so many user adjustments that if you get all the variables you should be able to duplicate them. Just dont have all the test equipment to get everything right.

Why don't you just spend the 2or 300 bucks to get it professionally calibrated rather than hoping someone does it for you? Why waste time hoping and watching a picture that isn't satisfying you?
post #134 of 4719
Why should any consumer "need" to spend and extra $200-$300 to get a good picture out of theri new $2000-$3000 tv.
post #135 of 4719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post

Why should any consumer "need" to spend and extra $200-$300 to get a good picture out of theri new $2000-$3000 tv.

Well you don't "need" to if you don't want to. If you can make it look the best that your eyes can manage using the menu setting that is great, but I guarantee that you aren't getting the best picture possible.

If you want the best picture the TV can produce that means getting calibrated closest to the 6500K standard amongst other things, including your own room environment, which means getting it professionally calibrated.
post #136 of 4719
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyers View Post

...If you want the best picture the TV can produce that means getting calibrated closest to the 6500K standard amongst other things, including your own room environment, which means getting it professionally calibrated.

I have read many debates on this forum over the years on this topic. Many people say what you have just typed, but I note that there are others who claim that professional calibration is a waste of money. Included in the latter is the service manager of the store where I bought my HDTV, a small high-end AV store with a decades-long reputation for their own in-house service. I'm not trying to challenge you since I have no personal experience.

One thing that bothers me about this issue is that as far as I know no one has ever set up a test to compare sets with and without professional calibration. If it's really worth the money the difference should be noticable to a focus group of observers.

Cheers
post #137 of 4719
I am not cheap, if I was I wouldnt have bought this set. Also I do want the best picture possible. HOWEVER as pointed out in a prior post how do you KNOW that having spent 300 you will have a picture that you can see the difference on???? As stated before I have never ever seen reviews comparing before and after. Sure its good after, presuming the tech knows what he is doing, but how was the picture before?? Is there really a 300 difference particularly with all the user adjustments built into todays sets. I have already used several test calibration discs so I am not starting from square one. I would certainly agree that you just cant turn a set on as delivered from where you bought it and expect a good picture. But after home adjustment using one of the many available consumer test discs, how much better is professional calibration??? And if you elect to get your set calibrated are all ISF certified techs the same? Do they all have all of the correct test equipment?(Yeah, I know ISF requires a certain amount of training and equipment) Can they work on your particular set? There are dozens of manufacturers with hundreds of models? How to they know about each one? I wouldnt take my Rolls to a Yugo dealer for service--how do I know I have the right tech??? I can get a plumber or electrician out for way less than 300.00. How long is this professionaly trained person going to spend for my 300.00. What if I dont see a difference, will they refund my money. And lastly I also have a old established local dealer(sony) who states calibration is a waste of money. They have been selling tv's(exclusively) since the 60's. Who's right? All of the above caused me to state what I did in my earlier post. And what about the millions of purchasers who dont live in a major city and therefore have no access to a ISF tech? I'm lucky I do but everybody doesnt live in a big metropolitan area.
post #138 of 4719
You can go over to youtube and do a search on ISF calibration. There are "plenty" of examples that will help you decide one way or the other
post #139 of 4719
Thread Starter 
On Callibration just my two cents...You might not like it From what I have seen most of the time you get your set cali'd the picture has less "pop" and more toned down backlight IMHO..I really like the brightness level high and Vivid colors but alot of people I have talked to say that its not performing to its best potential but it is to me I was always under the impression calibration does not really make pic better as much as its being more Eco-friendly w/less power consumption..
post #140 of 4719
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltgary View Post

I HOPE(Please God, please) that after somebody has a ISF calibration that they can share all the settings with us. This set has so many user adjustments that if you get all the variables you should be able to duplicate them. Just dont have all the test equipment to get everything right.

What's your opinion of the "Picture Wizard" this set supposedly features? From LG's web site:

Picture Wizard
Enables easy self-calibration by providing on-screen reference points for key picture quality elements like black level, color, tint, sharpness and backlight levels. Now you can take the guesswork out of picture adjustments and you won't need to purchase separate calibration tools.

post #141 of 4719
I used the wizard to setup my mom's tv.

It is similar to the color patterns on the dvds. I've never used the DVD with the Special Goggles, just the naked eye.

Basically:

Make this green screen look like "this"
Make this red screen look like "this"
Adjust brightness until the box looks like "this"
Horizontal and Verticle Sharpness control too

I did make the TV brighter than the wizard suggestion.

I'll run the wizard again after a week or two of operation. AND I should have the HDMI cable by then (currently using Comp1).
post #142 of 4719
I think the Wizard is great. Makes it very easy to calibrate the settings it includes. Much better, although not as extensive, as any of my three test discs. Understand that it is limited to its six or so areas of adjustments. You can get, IMO, a very very good picture using the Wizard. It is one feature I wish my 47lg90 from last year would have had.
post #143 of 4719
Thread Starter 
They have a 55" lh90 on display @ BestBuy in North Richland Hills, TX if anyone is intrested in seeing it in person...Its actually the one I returned since they still have none of them in store..
post #144 of 4719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paullouisj View Post

They have a 55" lh90 on display @ BestBuy in North Richland Hills, TX if anyone is intrested in seeing it in person...Its actually the one I returned since they still have none of them in store..

Did you exchage it for another LH90 or something else? Why did you return it? I know you don't like the 240Hz but anything else?
post #145 of 4719
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyers View Post

Did you exchage it for another LH90 or something else? Why did you return it? I know you don't like the 240Hz but anything else?

Nope recieved my money back... I couldnt stand how every time a white background would be displayed the backlight would fluctuate from white to a dirty white then back again.. HD looks dull to me on this set and alot less brighter then traditional CCFL back lit LCD's..SD picture was less impresive also...No audio out except optical

Now the positive is almost perfect screen uniformity when Local Dimming is on No dead pixels on my set and no flashlighting...Dont forget picture wizard too..

Almost didnt take it back, but after talking to LG and listned to them saying they have no updates to resolve issue scared me some..
I dont have the Cash to experiment w/ this set hpoping there is an update soon..$2999.99 for a LCD w/ issues is to much. Maybe after its been a Technology out for some years (240hz Scanning BL, +LD) it should be near flawless...It is what it is..Some people may Love this set and I truly hope it works out for everyone else just not for me unfortunatly..
post #146 of 4719
Quote:
Originally Posted by South Side View Post

Only two owners

I sold one of each so far, not sure if the guys are from the forum or not.
post #147 of 4719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paullouisj View Post

Nope recieved my money back... I couldnt stand how every time a white background would be displayed the backlight would fluctuate from white to a dirty white then back again.. HD looks dull to me on this set and alot less brighter then traditional CCFL back lit LCD's..SD picture was less impresive also...No audio out except optical

Now the positive is almost perfect screen uniformity when Local Dimming is on No dead pixels on my set and no flashlighting...Dont forget picture wizard too..

Almost didnt take it back, but after talking to LG and listned to them saying they have no updates to resolve issue scared me some..
I dont have the Cash to experiment w/ this set hpoping there is an update soon..$2999.99 for a LCD after its been a Tech thats been out for years should be damn near flawless to me but hey it was not...It is what it is..Some people may Love this set and I truly hope it works out for everyone else just not for me unfortunatly..


That is a disappointment especially knowing how good the specs look on paper. Do you think that maybe you got a bum set? I'll wait for the shoot-out judgement when it will get a professional calibration and testing. I hope the Tosh SV670 fairs better.

Speaking of Tosh and LG, do anyone know who is technically better? And by better I mean R&D soming up with more real advancements. I had thought it was LG. Thoughts?
post #148 of 4719
I'm wanting to buy the 55LH40 very soon. I'm going with the 120Hz and not buying in on the 240Hz. Any reason to not get this 55LH40 set? It's either that or the 52B630 from Samsung. I must have a matte screen finish and not glossy.

Will the 55LH40 from LG outperform the 52B640 from Samsung? Or should I scrap both and look at something else? Looking to spend about $2500 for the best 55" LCD I can get.
post #149 of 4719
this tread and its comments are mainly about the LG 90 series of sets. They are the only current LED sets that LG makes. All of LG's other series use different backlighting technology. LG makes a whole series of sets 30's, 40's, 50's etc up to the 90 series which are their top end sets. You cant expect the lower series to have the same features and performance as the top higher priced series. They(LG) make tv's in all price ranges as do most manufacturers. As such I cant tell you a thing about any series other than the 55LG90 that I own. When comparing different brands you should probably try to compare sets in the same price range. You IMO probably will not get a realistic comparison if you compare one brands entry level set with another brands top high end set. Also it is my understanding that some brands make sets specifically for low end retailers like Walmart. The sets made for merchandise clubs like Costco/Sams etc MAY OR MAY NOT have the same features/quality as those made for regular retailers. I dont know for certain but it is worth looking into.
Good luck.
post #150 of 4719
Thanks LT. I have decided on the 55LH40.
Seems to be the only, if not one of the few, 55" LCDs with a matte screen finish and not glossy.
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