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*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1910/790 Owner's Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 9206
6/13/09 at 5:45am
Video and audio will pass through when HDMI Control - ON and the unit is in STANDBY, although with the 1910 you now have the ability to select the particular HDMI jack you want used with HDMI Control. Not sure what you're asking about (3) Power selections. Power Off Control is either set to ON (default) or OFF. Video pass through can also occur while the AVR is ON and the i/p scaler is set to OFF.
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post #212 of 9206
6/13/09 at 6:28am
Thanks jd, I'm little confused where the 1909 have a power operation button (on/standby) and a power switch and the 1910 doesn't.
So with the 1910 having the ability to select audio pass through it doesn't have that extra power button. Meaning with power button "off", the unit will pass audio through correct? Is their another button or feature in the menu to put the unit in standby?

Duh, never mind I just wasn't looking real hard, sorry
I guess its time to get an eye exam
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post #213 of 9206
6/13/09 at 11:10am
That's probably why you had me confused .... the 1910 has the same Standby and ON/OFF buttons as does the 1909.
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post #214 of 9206
6/13/09 at 12:30pm
Guys,

I was planning to buy Denon avr 1909, but with release of 1910 I was thinking about the last one up to this moment...

I got proposal to buy the older model 1909 (brand new, shop needs to sell out), and they gives in addition Blu-ray player Denon DVD-1800BD just for 100$ (brand new as well). Totaly for 1909 and DVD-1800BD I will pay 880$.

And please keep in mind that in Europe that kind of stuff costs 30-40% more then in US. In my country 1909 costs 760$, 1910 will be around 680$ and DVD-1800BD costs 940$.

Keeping in mind the differences between 1909 and 1910 are minor, up to this moment I don't have any proper video source, exept PC and laptop....I'm thinking to take a deal with them...Even the set is silver, and I need black...

That do you think? Please help me to decide
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post #215 of 9206
6/13/09 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo76 View Post

Davidt1,

Another thing the 1610 is missing is full video scaling of both digital and analog which the 1910 has accroding to batpig. This is one of the reasons I am going with the 1910.

I must admit ignorance here. Don't know much about upscaling and upconverting. From what little I know either the dvd player or the tv can upscale or upconvert, right? My dvd players do a good job at that. All I need is a receiver that will pass the signal through without altering it. So I think the 1610 fits the bill. Even if I get the 1910 I would probably turn the upscaling/upconverting feature off. You can disable this function, right?

I went to Fry's and play with 1610 for a little while. They didn't have it hooked up, so I wasn't able to do any listening. So far I like the features such as the 120 minute sleep timer, complete dimming of the display, the Audysssey stuff. There are dedicate buttons for the sleep timer and dimmer on both the receiver and remote control. Don't have to go into some menu for something like that. Awesome! Plus, you can do the setup or adjustments without using a monitor or even the remote control. With this receiver, I would not have to depend on a monitor or even the remote control to operate it. The only thing the 1610 lacks that might be useful to me are some switched outlets. Ideally, I would hook up my dvd/cd players to the receiver's outlets and use the receiver's timer to shut them all down at the same time.
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post #216 of 9206
6/13/09 at 2:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


From what little I know either the dvd player or the tv can upscale or upconvert, right?

correct

Quote:


All I need is a receiver that will pass the signal through without altering it.

in most cases, yes, completely.

Quote:


Even if I get the 1910 I would probably turn the upscaling/upconverting feature off. You can disable this function, right?

yes, absolutely.


in general, the only benefit to video scaling in the receiver is if the receiver does it BETTER than your TV and/or source device.
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post #217 of 9206
6/13/09 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidt1 View Post

I must admit ignorance here. Don't know much about upscaling and upconverting. From what little I know either the dvd player or the tv can upscale or upconvert, right? My dvd players do a good job at that. All I need is a receiver that will pass the signal through without altering it. So I think the 1610 fits the bill. Even if I get the 1910 I would probably turn the upscaling/upconverting feature off. You can disable this function, right?

I went to Fry's and play with 1610 for a little while. They didn't have it hooked up, so I wasn't able to do any listening. So far I like the features such as the 120 minute sleep timer, complete dimming of the display, the Audysssey stuff. There are dedicate buttons for the sleep timer and dimmer on both the receiver and remote control. Don't have to go into some menu for something like that. Awesome! Plus, you can do the setup or adjustments without using a monitor or even the remote control. With this receiver, I would not have to depend on a monitor or even the remote control to operate it. The only thing the 1610 lacks that might be useful to me are some switched outlets. Ideally, I would hook up my dvd/cd players to the receiver's outlets and use the receiver's timer to shut them all down at the same time.

Personally I would not think of the present, but maybe a little further ahead. If the1910 is out of the budget, than the 1609 should do better than the 1610 and you should be slightly a little bit ahead of time. Just my opinion

I had to depart of a HK avr55, did the job so far, and still will do, but too many wires lying around the floor. So think that I will have only 1/5 th of the wires on the floor instead of 25 I'll have only 5 wires. I could certainly hide five but not 25.
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post #218 of 9206
6/13/09 at 5:05pm
im not sure if my 1910 or panny 800u plasma would upscale better.

although, i enjoy reading that everything is 1080p!
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post #219 of 9206
6/13/09 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asb-123 View Post

im not sure if my 1910 or panny 800u plasma would upscale better.

although, i enjoy reading that everything is 1080p!

My panny 80u(short of a zero) does not upscale.

But its good to see my cable channels 480i being upscaled or upconverted to 1080p
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post #220 of 9206
6/13/09 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asb-123 View Post

im not sure if my 1910 or panny 800u plasma would upscale better.

The Panny 800U is one of the best plasmas available. It certainly is as good as or better at upscaling then the Faroudja chip in the 1909. Whether you feel it does a better job than the Denon 1910 (ABT chip) is a personal choice. Worth posting your opinion though once you've had a chance to check them both out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

My panny 80u(short of a zero) does not upscale.

Any fixed panel 1080p display (plasma, lcd) can only display at 1080p therefore EVERYTHING that is fed into it MUST be upscaled to 1080p. Your Panny TH46PZ80U is a 1080p display, therefore it is indeed already upscaling to 1080p. Whether you feel the Denon 1910 (ABT chip) does a better job than the Panny is a personal choice.
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post #221 of 9206
6/13/09 at 8:39pm
Any fixed panel 1080p display (plasma, lcd) can only display at 1080p therefore EVERYTHING that is fed into it MUST be upscaled to 1080p. Your Panny TH46PZ80U is a 1080p display, therefore it is indeed already upscaling to 1080p. Whether you feel the Denon 1910 (ABT chip) does a better job than the Panny is a personal choice.

my Panny displays to a maximum of1080p. But if non-HD cable is fed as input it will display only 480i if its HD it will display a maximum of 780p

So to my understanding it does not upscale or convert to 1080p unless I am missing something.

When receiver is off, non-Hd is 480i and I put the receiver on it upconverts to 1080p. I do see the diff. don't get me wrong it not the same as Blueray 1080p.
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post #222 of 9206
6/13/09 at 9:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

my Panny displays to a maximum of1080p.

Your panel displays and upscales only to 1080p. It's a fixed panel display ... it ONLY displays 1080p (unless of course you have some Canadian variant of the US TH46PZ80U). Also, upscaling a SD video to 1080p is of course no where close to be true 1080p video like a BD.
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post #223 of 9206
6/13/09 at 9:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Your panel displays and upscales only to 1080p. It's a fixed panel display ... it ONLY displays 1080p (unless of course you have some Canadian variant of the US TH46PZ80U). Also, upscaling a SD video to 1080p is of course no where close to be true 1080p video like a BD.

To my knowledge, it does not up scale, it just displays what ever input comes in.
If I get a 480i it will display 480i. cause when I display the info of the tv it says 480i.

If I switch on the receiver it will show 1080p for the above and picture quality will be much better.

To what I see the TV does not upscale it displays what ever is fed. Maybe your 800u does. I know its the higher end of the Panny and its a great tv.

In matter of fact I suggested my friend to by the 800u 58" or so, instead of the Samsung Led 55" 120 proc. and would same money and would have a better tv for cheaper.
but son suggest the LED which is thinner.
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post #224 of 9206
6/13/09 at 10:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

To my knowledge, it does not up scale, it just displays what ever input comes in.
If I get a 480i it will display 480i. cause when I display the info of the tv it says 480i.

I suggest you read your Owner's Manual or better yet spend some time reading the AVS Forum thread on the 80U to better understand plasma TVs and the 80U. When you display the INFO by pressing the RECALL button, it is displaying what is being fed IN to the Panny and not what is going OUT as the ONLY resolution that is going out/displayed is 1080p, regardless of whether you're feeding it a 480i SD signal or a 720p from a DVD.
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post #225 of 9206
6/13/09 at 11:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

To my knowledge, it does not up scale, it just displays what ever input comes in.
If I get a 480i it will display 480i. cause when I display the info of the tv it says 480i.

it is just telling you what the INPUT signal format is.

again, it is a FIXED PIXEL display with a resolution of 1920 x 1080. So ask yourself this: if it isn't "upscaling", why doesn't a 480i signal (480 lines) show up as a tiny box in the middle of the 1,080 lines of the TV screen? Why doesn't a 720p signal appear as a medium-sized rectangle with black bars all around?

Somehow, it is blown up and fills the entire screen, right? So the TV is taking it from 480 or 720 lines of information and displaying it on 1,080 lines of information. The only way to do that is to SCALE the image!

the key thing to understand is that "upscaling" is not a FEATURE of HDTV's, it's a NECESSITY in order to display the image across all the pixels!
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post #226 of 9206
6/14/09 at 4:55am
Whew! Hopefully he gets it now!

This 1080p plasma discussion has been a bit off topic but probably worth the discussion for you 1910 newbies that are just entering the AVR market (and this forum) for the first time. The key thing to realize is that with the 1909 and the crappy Faroudja video chip, there was generally no reason to even consider the 1909's video processing if you had either a 1080p HDTV or a HD DVR, both of which would do as good as or better a job of upscaling to 1080i/p than the Denon. The introduction of the ABT chip in the 1910 offers better video processing technology than the Faroudja; however, we're still waiting on some feedback from you new 1910 owners as to whether you consider the ABT better than your respective HDTVs or HD DVRs. What say you?
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post #227 of 9206
6/14/09 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Whew! Hopefully he gets it now!

This 1080p plasma discussion has been a bit off topic but probably worth the discussion for you 1910 newbies that are just entering the AVR market (and this forum) for the first time. The key thing to realize is that with the 1909 and the crappy Faroudja video chip, there was generally no reason to even consider the 1909's video processing if you had either a 1080p HDTV or a HD DVR, both of which would do as good as or better a job of upscaling to 1080i/p than the Denon. The introduction of the ABT chip in the 1910 offers better video processing technology than the Faroudja; however, we're still waiting on some feedback from you new 1910 owners as to whether you consider the ABT better than your respective HDTVs or HD DVRs. What say you?

Batpig thanks for clearing it up,

jdsmoothie, on this matter the Panny does upscale and you are correct.

NOw is upscaling the same as upconverting. Maybe you guys can explain it better.
I know the 1910 gives me a better picture with the receiver is on 1080p then when its off 480i.
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post #228 of 9206
6/14/09 at 5:28am
Also, some of you are probably thinking you can save money on upgrading to an HD cable/satellite box by letting the 1910 upscale to 1080p instead. If cost is the overriding factor, then this will indeed work. However, keep in mind that although this will provide for slightly better picture quality than the original 480i, it won't come close to the quality of a true 1080i/p HD cable/satellite transmission. On a scale of 1 - 10, with 480i video being a 1 and a true 1080i/p HD transmission being a 10, then upscaled 480i using the 1910 will get you maybe a 4-5 (again subjective to be sure).
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post #229 of 9206
6/14/09 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

NOw is upscaling the same as upconverting. Maybe you guys can explain it better.


Nope. Upscaling involves taking a lower resolution image (eg 480i) and increasing the pixel count to create a higher resolution image (eg. 1080p). Upconversion involves taking a signal input via composite/S-video/component cable and converting it to be able to be broadcast over HDMI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

I know the 1910 gives me a better picture with the receiver is on 1080p then when its off 480i.

To be clear ... you're saying that when you run a 480i SD signal through the Denon 1910 with the HDMI setting at AUTO (to upscale it to 1080p which is the resolution of your Panny) it looks better than if you have the Denon in STANDBY such that the 480i signal simply passes through the Denon and goes directly to the Panny? Is this correct?
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post #230 of 9206
6/14/09 at 5:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

Batpig thanks for clearing it up,

jdsmoothie, on this matter the Panny does upscale and you are correct.

NOw is upscaling the same as upconverting. Maybe you guys can explain it better.
I know the 1910 gives me a better picture with the receiver is on 1080p then when its off 480i.

I'll give it a try.
Upconversion: Convert the signal from analog such as component or composite to digital HDMI.
Deinterlacing: Deinterlace an interlaced signal such as 480i to 480p.
Upscaling: Scale the size of the picture from for example 480 to 1080.

The 1910 does all of this for you. If you feed the 1910 with HDMI in, then the upconversion isn't done since the signal allready is digital.
The Panasonic PZ80 TV also do all of this for you if you feed it anything else than 1080p. The question is which one is better at it.
I don't know about the PZ80 or 800 but this years models like the G10 isn't very good at deinterlacing (see: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panas...0090415146.htm) so that's probably why the picture looks better if the 1910 does the deinterlacing and upscaling than if your panasonic TV does it.
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post #231 of 9206
6/14/09 at 5:42am
While I'm on the topic of video conversion.
I'm looking to get a 1910 or a 2310. The 1910 is enough for me audio-wise. But an important feature to me is the video-conversion. Is the ABT2010 chip in the 2310 that much better than the ABT1030 chip in the 1910 that it alone motivates the higher price?
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post #232 of 9206
6/14/09 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Also, some of you are probably thinking you can save money on upgrading to an HD cable/satellite box by letting the 1910 upscale to 1080p instead.

Right, jd. That seems penny wise & pound foolish with your entertainment $. IMHO if you spent the bucks on an HD TV you should budget in a HD cable box. You get significantly better SQ & PQ. Then when selecting the AVR, if cost is a factor, just let your TV do the video processing and save money on the AVR by buying (last year's?) lowest model that will handle your audio needs adequately.
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post #233 of 9206
6/14/09 at 6:38am
Good point ... the HD cable/satellite box also adds DD 5.1 audio with the majority of the HD channels over the basic 2.0 from a SD box. If you've got a new Denon to play the audio, might as well get the best audio.
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post #234 of 9206
6/14/09 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Right, jd. That seems penny wise & pound foolish with your entertainment $. IMHO if you spent the bucks on an HD TV you should budget in a HD cable box. You get significantly better SQ & PQ. Then when selecting the AVR, if cost is a factor, just let your TV do the video processing and save money on the AVR by buying (last year's?) lowest model that will handle your audio needs adequately.

On the other hand if your HDTV has a QAM tuner you can get a considerable amount of HD programming with just a subscription to basic cable. In a vacation home a I get the networks and some others including ESPNHD for free! OTA is not available for me in the mountains of North Carolina but may be an option for others, as well.
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post #235 of 9206
6/14/09 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

On the other hand if your HDTV has a QAM tuner you can get a considerable amount of HD programming with just a subscription to basic cable. In a vacation home a I get the networks and some others including ESPNHD for free! OTA is not available for me in the mountains of North Carolina but may be an option for others, as well.

Right, Gary, that is also a good point about OTA. Free is good! Personally I just don't watch much network TV, prefering SciChHD, NatGeoHD & the HD movie channels. HD net has great concerts on Sundays-Santana tonight! With the DVR, it really frees me up to spend more time on the forums, I mean, on work.
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post #236 of 9206
6/14/09 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

HD net

Sure, we were talking about free HD options. I can tell you don't have Time Warner which lost HD Net. No more space shuttle launches for me.
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post #237 of 9206
6/14/09 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Sure, we were talking about free HD options. I can tell you don't have Time Warner which lost HD Net. No more space shuttle launches for me.

Yep, you got it. I switched from Comcast to attuverse awhile back. Recently att pulled a little fast one, taking Palladium (my prior fav concert source) and making it part of a pay-even-more-than-I-do-now add-on premium pkg. No way I was going to pay more, I've reached my max cost/benefit for now, so I squeezed a little discount off my rate. Both companies compete here, offering TV, phone and internet packages that are really pretty good values. That was my point, that for me a few OTA free HD channels was really never in the running. I've put thousands into this HT and want to enjoy a good variety of worthwhile programming in HD. With "On Demand" and the HDDVR I never have to watch SDTV anymore! But to each his own. Oops sorry, kinda getting further & further off topic...
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post #238 of 9206
6/14/09 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Nope. Upscaling involves taking a lower resolution image (eg 480i) and increasing the pixel count to create a higher resolution image (eg. 1080p). Upconversion involves taking a signal input via composite/S-video/component cable and converting it to be able to be broadcast over HDMI.



To be clear ... you're saying that when you run a 480i SD signal through the Denon 1910 with the HDMI setting at AUTO (to upscale it to 1080p which is the resolution of your Panny) it looks better than if you have the Denon in STANDBY such that the 480i signal simply passes through the Denon and goes directly to the Panny? Is this correct?

Yup, you got it there.

thanks is sure clears up the above issue.
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post #239 of 9206
6/14/09 at 8:58am
But HD cable, not all channels are HD here. We still have 2 bands 480i and the hd 1080i some channels duplicate.
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post #240 of 9206
6/14/09 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

HD net has great concerts on Sundays-Santana tonight!

DirecTV offers their new "The 101 HD channel Concert Series" with live concerts from all around the country every day of the week! The payback for putting more money into the speakers rather than the AVR just keeps getting better and better! Not to mention, soon there will be over 200 HD channels available!
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1910/790 Owner's Thread