*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1910/790 Owner's Thread - Page 258

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I understand "cannot stretch the 480 video broadcast over a 1080 signal". Also wondering if it would be able to zoom to eliminate the ticker on ESPN, but without stretching it. I can do it with my tv but it also stretches the picture.

Hopefully someone can help me out on this matter. I just set up a second AVR 790 in my basement (first one is in family room) and I am not getting any volume level feedback on my Samsung LED. I have the components in a closet and I am using a Logitech Harmony 900 remote to control everything.

I am using the same setup (remote & receiver) upstairs and I get feedback on the TV when I change the volume. Is there a setting that is turned off? I have the receiver hooked up to the tv via HDMI and when I access the AVR's Menu I get the GUI interface to show up on the TV.

Any help in this matter would be great. Thanks!

The 790 does not have the Volume overlay feature which starts with the 2310/890 models. The volume overlay you're seeing in the family room is a result of the TV and not the 790.

As JD wrote, this is a function of the TV, and I'm not sure whether the Samsung LED sets provide this. For it to work, as I recall, you have to enable HDMI-CEC (under Manual Setup -> HDMI Setup -> HDMI Control ), which can introduce other HDMI issues with some sets.

I've been trying for the last hour to google up the manufacturing date of my (serial 0013346465) 1910 without success. I don't find a date on the cabinet so I assume it is hidden in the serial #. Anyone know? I think this has been discussed here before but I can't find it. I got the 1910 from Crutchfield a couple of months back and It would be nice to know if any of the updates are installed.

Hi fcatwo, the first three number details year and month. First number 0 detail year (2010) and next two number detail month 01 (Jan).

Why not just check for the firmware version installed on your 1910 which is more important than the actual mfr date? Click on the 2nd link in my sig to learn how to do this.

Front - Polk Monitor 70

Center- Polk Cs2

Rear - Polk Monitor 60

Receiver - AVR-1910

Sub woofer- 1 Epik Empire

My question is in regards to the crossover frequency settings AFTER I ran audyessy.

After audyssey, my sub was set to 80hz. ( Do I change this to 120hz?)

My Front/Rear/Center was set to "large" but I manually set these to "small", but now the crossover freq. is set to 40hz. (Ive switched from 40hz to 60hz to 80hz and it seems 40hz sounds best (not so "boomy") My concern is having these set at 40hz, will I risk blowing anything? Why does everyone say to set f/r/c to 60hz-80hz?

Gives the amp more head room. The sub should be good at 120hz. As for all the other speakers 40hz is good, but if you like to play it loud, than 60hz or 80hz maybe a better way to go.

It seems when I set the f/r/c to 80hz, it doesn't sound as clear as when they are set at 40hz because bass is muffling it up. When you say "loud" are you speaking bass or overall dialog?

The new AVR's seem finally to be setting the sub LFE LPF default (and recommended) to 120Hz rather than 80, but you probably won't hear any difference, as it only applies to LFE content, and it is not a xover. There are several reasons for raising the crossovers up to 60 or 80. The low bass freqs suck power from the AVR amps, as goo mentioned, so it is better to let the sub's amp take that load. Additionally, those freqs demand a lot from your towers' 6" midrange drivers, and are far more easily handled by the large speaker in your sub. Third, the higher crossover sends more freqs to the AVR sub channel where MultEQ applies additional filters as those freqs present the biggest problems for room EQ in our small rooms.

I have Polk towers which are auto-assigned a 40 Hz xover. My sub is up front, but 3' to the R of the FR speaker. To my ears, at lower volumes 40 Hz provides slightly more detailed & localized bass in the front soundstage especially for 2 Ch material, but at higher volumes the overall response is clearly superior with 80, especially for multichannel.

As for "boomy", let's get into more detail. Where is your sub? Is DynEQ on? What sources cause this (film soundtrack vs TV vs CD)?

I've found that many of the better / powerful subs, have a roll off starting at 80hz (the LPF means little above that point) so the 80 to 120hz range can be tricky. If your having problems with clear sound, you may need to look into this.
The better subs go down low and put out high amounts of low end, but start to roll off fast at the high end were the old THX standard was set @ 80hz. Todays low priced subs made to work with small 3 inche satellite speakers are better in the 60 to 200hz range as they just make up for the lack of woofers in the front mains. This can get long and deep but thats the basics.

I too have found that 60Hz sounds better than the "recommended" 80Hz. Also, purely for music listening I prefer to leave the three front speakers set to Large. All the discussion of setting them to Small makes perfect sense, however with the Small setting the mid-bass just sounds too weak. Tympani (kettle drums) for example sound shallow, even though the bass drum has a clear, solid bottom end.

My fronts are not really all that large, as speakers go.... Polk Monitor 60's, which use 5-1/4 bass drivers, and the claimed response rolls off quickly below 50Hz. So granted they are not putting out much bass themselves, but I suspect that the Large setting is needed so that the 12" sub begins to take over where the fronts roll off.

In other words, at the xover freq, neither the fronts nor the sub are able to do a good job on their own, but together they augment each other nicely AT THAT POINT, then surrender to the other at the higher and lower frequencies. Does that make sense? Do I really run any risk of causing problems leaving the fronts set on Large? Our music/movie ratio is about 50/50 and volume levels are not what might be considered extreme.

With your front 3 speakers set to LARGE, unless you also have the sub set to LFE+MAIN, then the sub isn't getting anything from those speakers, rather only the 0.1 LFE signal in movies and crossover from any other speakers set to SMALL.

Like I said, its tricky, if you set your LPF to max to fill in the above 80hz range, you run the risk of boomy over powering low end. Its just a gross mismatch between subs and mains, I think a lot of people are having this problem, I know I did, I takes alot of tweaking. I found that turning my LPF to the lowest and than running auto setup worked best. A 180 of that most we tell you to do. but thats ok for most, but if that doesn't work for you, than you need to try something else. Its just a gross mismatching of speakers and subs, blending them seamlessly together is a artform like no other

Auto set up will smooth it out, but if its way off it could just make it sound worse.

This can happen when you mix brands and old with very old and new hardware.

Are we having fun yet

Yes, I have LPF+MAIN, with LPF set to maximum of 120... assuming that this will send all LPF information (the 0.1 track) to the sub, plus direct normal 5-CH bass tones below the xover freq (here 60Hz) to the sub as well as the mains. I also assume that *NO* LPF material is sent to the mains.


By "LPF to max" you mean the LPF cutoff on the Denon? I have that set to 120, assuming it only affects the 0.1 material and would not affect music. No problem with boominess since I recently moved up to a higher quality sub. But I also seem to have lost the low frequency but not-quite-bass material.


I'm sorry, but what do you mean by setting LPF to lowest and for what purpose? Are you referring to the xover on the sub itself? I assume that any setting in the Denon is subject to change by running the Audyssey setup.


Actually that's what I think I'm trying to accomplish... getting the mains and sub to work together, rather than having one sharp point in the frequency range where duties are handed over from one to the other.


Audyssey set all speakers to Large with xover at 40Hz, which I felt was too low. Plus I saw no sense in having surrounds and rears set to Large as they have long wire runs and probably receive little if any bass material.

The speakers are all fairly new, though are probably circa 2004 design (Polk Monitor 60 fronts, M50 surrounds, M40 rear). I know the Monitors are notoriously weak in the bass department, but seem to have a smooth and even bass response down to their roll-off point. Also I think the downfiring sub (Klipsch Sub-12, my newest addition) seems to do best with subsonic material - what you feel more than hear - and not very well with the lower end of musical instruments, such as the tympani and bass cello.


As a dear friend of mine once said, "you only have the rest of your life to fool around".

I'm referring to the xover ( LPF) on the sub itself. Try it at min, you may need to rise the subs gain abit. Rerun auto set up, its ok to set denons LFE to 120hz and the other speakers 40hz or higher. The new sub settings will change the overall balance, for better or worse, listen and you be the judge.

Yea I no fear of being tared and feathered, what I say I do or try, I just pass my ideas to others, take it or leave it , but I only have good intentions.

See what I mean
In other words turning the subs LPF down may in some set ups put its output in a range that Audyssey can work (better) with. If your subs output is anything like mine, than it will work for you. As you can see 120hz is down about -12db from the 50hz peak. The two cruves are very much alike yet they sound very unalike after auto set up. Do I have a problem, I did, now it seems to of been fixed or covered up, whatever, I'm happier now than before. If you look close the gain in 30 to 40hz range is about +3db and not as steep with less rolloff with the LPF set to min. I know Audyssey uses -3 db markers so it must have a big effect on the overall sound. I did this with test tones and RS meter by hand with a six pack, its not 100% but its good enough to see whats what.

Thanks for the replies. I understand Goo, you're trying to trick Audyssey into doing what you want it to do. Maybe tarring and feathering is too good for you (j/k) I'm considering reconnecting the old(er) 10" sub in addition to the 12" and see if perhaps it will fill in the upper bass. And thank you both for the graphs.

You may have done your homework already, but I want to be sure we cover the basics to help with your bass issue. I fear Goo will get us way off track with his, shall we say, unique approach. I suggest you review the Audyssey setup guide (and os course feel free to post here or in the Audyssey thread with any further setup questions). By far most folks obtain exc bass by carefully following these instructions on sub setup and bass management, including bypassing the sub's filters as much as possible. A sub crawl can also help to obtain more even bass with optimal sub placement. It should not be situated in a corner or close to a wall. Take all mic positions well within the FR/L's tweeters sound cone and within 3' of MLP, not close to walls. Do not sample every seat. Afterwards all speakers are set to small, regardless of the wire length which is irrelevent in our rooms, or physical size. Xovers are raised to 80. If after all that you decide to go with more than 1 sub, this complicates things slightly. I'd try locating the second sub equidistant from MLP on the opposite wall, then run them individually to level match then run both with a Y splitter for final run.

I'll sure my old polk psw is the problem, but theres nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't play nice with others, its a bad boy

Thank you for taking the time to provide such a detailed response. Much of this had occurred to me already... Goo did state early on that his approach was a 180 from what is normally recommended. Also the thread quickly turned into an Audyssey issue not specific to Denon, other than terminology in the setup menu, e.g. LPF for LFE.


I do suspect that my sub may be too close to the back wall. Apparently this was not as big an issue with a smaller sub as it is now. And certainly there would be complications introduced with two dissimilar subs. Basically the purpose of my original reply was to say that I too have found that a 60Hz xover seems to sound better than 80Hz

Speaker placement is difficult to work out in our small room already packed with furniture and equipment, though I do intend to move things around some. A large overstuffed easy chair near the LF speaker causes Audyssey to favor that channel and raise it's level +5.0 db over the others, although all speakers are essentially identical. The chair is NOT blocking the speaker, but I may cover it with a plastic sheet next time I run setup. Otherwise, each time I have run setup the results become more and more favorable.

Bad boy, bad boy, whatchagonnado...
My old Polk PSW 350, vintage about 10yrs old, seems very adequate (smooth, punchy, never boomy, very musical) since switching from the old Sony AVR to the Denon with MultEQXT (and pulling it out of the corner when I added DynEQ). I would say MultEQXT has done the same for all the Polk satellites too (RT800i towers, CS 400i CC, RC 55i in-wall surrounds), improving SQ. I had previously considered upgrading speakers but there is no urgency as it sounds so darn good now.

Good points. I do like 60Hz xover a tad better than 80 for lower volume critical listening, especially 2 Ch. But the AVR and speakers seem to appreciate it at 80 when I crank it up, especially for multich. I would not be too concerned about the chair and would be surprised if the plastic shield during autosetup would help. Generally speaking all should be during autosetup as it will be during listening. I have a chair very close to RF but the drivers are in the upper half of the tower so it doesn't seem to affect things much.

Nice photo - I wish our room looked so good. Your chair is considerably less overstuffed than ours, and it appears that your ottoman may be the only item that might absorb sound. Our chair looks more like a reclining futon. Even though I always ensure that the mic has a clear shot at the upper drivers in that speaker, Audyssey always sets the LF at +1.0, while ALL of the others are set to -4.0. This in itself seems suspicious as all drivers are identical. Also that speaker simply SOUNDS much louder from everywhere else in the room, not just to the person sitting in that chair. I think the plastic is worth a shot, just to see how it changes the outcome, short of moving the chair from its location when running setup. In a way, I can see how and why Goo feels he must trick Audyssey into performing as he intends it to. It is a nice feature and certainly eliminated a lot of trial and error (we also have a Yamaha in the bedroom with YAPO or whatever it is called, their version of Audyssey).

Thanks. Ohh, I misread 5dB as .5dB. That is certainly an audible difference, assuming FR/L are nearly equidistant from MLP. MLP=mic pos #1 is the position that sets delays and levels for all speakers. Does the inequality persist if you switch out FR and FL?

That was actually the first thing that crossed my mind. Actually it occurred to me that if that particular speaker (the unit itself, not its location) is more "powerful" (i.e., sensitive) than the others, that I should probably move it to the center, as I use three M60's up front... But moving the chair would be a LOT easier than moving the speakers!