or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Programming › Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in HDTV!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in HDTV! - Page 52

post #1531 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

I really would like to know if anyone has seen HD quality as good in this country, EVER?????? Doesn't it make you wonder?
Sure.

It all used to look that good before bandwidth crunching and subchannels.
post #1532 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Sure.
It all used to look that good before bandwidth crunching and subchannels.

I dunno. I think many DBS/cable customers in Europe get high rate MPEG-4 channels, and no recompression from their provider. We're remembering back to the days of ota channels with no subchannels at 19Mbps MPEG-2. Which is still don't think is as good. You really can't tell much from a picture of a TV, those aren't actual caps.
post #1533 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

I dunno. I think many DBS/cable customers in Europe get high rate MPEG-4 channels, and no recompression from their provider. We're remembering back to the days of ota channels with no subchannels at 19Mbps MPEG-2. Which is still don't think is as good. You really can't tell much from a picture of a TV, those aren't actual caps.
Two questions:

1) Did you ever watch HD back in the early days of it (like around 2000)?

2) Have you been to Europe and viewed HD?

If not, you're just speculating.

In my case, the answer is yes to both.
post #1534 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Two questions:
1) Did you ever watch HD back in the early days of it (like around 2000)?
2) Have you been to Europe and viewed HD?
If not, you're just speculating.
In my case, the answer is yes to both.

1) Around 2003. Besides which my CBS station still has no subs and uses pretty much all their bandwidth.
2) Watched some captures of BBC-HD in its early days. Blew any domestic HD I've seen out of the water.
post #1535 of 1760
Some new guy coming here would be pretty confused to see those Jaws pics lauded for PQ, then going to the BD forum and, err ...

Depends on your expectations what good PQ is.

For me, for TV, DirecTV's delivery of the Orioles on TBS tonight is pretty amazing. Can't get away from motion artifacts, especially with grass and dirt, but everything else, artistic as well as technical, is great. Enjoy it while it lasts, sigh.
post #1536 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

I dunno. I think many DBS/cable customers in Europe get high rate MPEG-4 channels, and no recompression from their provider. We're remembering back to the days of ota channels with no subchannels at 19Mbps MPEG-2. Which is still don't think is as good. You really can't tell much from a picture of a TV, those aren't actual caps.
Hello ,

TCM HD fr. 1920x1080i bitrate Mpeg-4 15 Mbp/s ... wink.gif
post #1537 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

I really would like to know if anyone has seen HD quality as good in this country, EVER?????? Doesn't it make you wonder?

Never on the US TCM "HD" channel, that's for sure.
post #1538 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Never on the US TCM "HD" channel, that's for sure.


How about any OTHER channel?
post #1539 of 1760

TCM-HD went live on the U.K.'s Sky satellite service last month.

 

Go to post #44 to begin reading the first actual sightings:

 

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1720878
 

post #1540 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

How about any OTHER channel?

No way to tell for sure from a photo at 1024x576 pixels of a TV screen like those posted here.

And if I told you otherwise, you should call me a liar.

But it is easy to tell that it's better than SD converted to HD.
Edited by nathan_h - 10/15/12 at 8:21pm
post #1541 of 1760
Hi everyone on this thread!

If anyone here could be considered an EXPERT on this issue (TCM HD channel not showing in HD), I'm very interested in speaking with you!!
post #1542 of 1760
There's not much to being an "expert" on TCM not showing true HD. I've been a long-time TCM viewer, and had TCMHD for a couple of years. They have never shown true HD, and have made no public announcements about when they will, or why they aren't showing it yet. That's all the info there is on the subject. Now, you're an "expert" too... biggrin.gifeek.gif
post #1543 of 1760
I may be delusional, but I recall when TCMHD was in embryo, some "sources" claimed they already had hundreds of movies already transferred and ready to go.

Now, nothing. What a disappointment.

Remember when AMC was the lame channel? Now they have Mad Men and Breaking Bad. Apples and oranges, yes, but what nice shining apples!
post #1544 of 1760
AMC may be true HD but they also have commercials and edit movies. At one time AMC and TCM were direct competitors, but that time is long gone. TCM stayed true to their audience, while AMC sold out.
post #1545 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

I may be delusional, but I recall when TCMHD was in embryo, some "sources" claimed they already had hundreds of movies already transferred and ready to go.
Now, nothing. What a disappointment.
Remember when AMC was the lame channel? Now they have Mad Men and Breaking Bad. Apples and oranges, yes, but what nice shining apples!
I don't remember anything about having content ready to go but I do remember the post quoted below,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee View Post

Had dinner with one of my friends at TCM last night. He was very excited about the HD rollout. As you would expect, he said they're in the midst of setting up as many carriage agreements as they can. Some things he passed along:


- Cablevision was indeed the first to pick up the channel.

- Time Warner has already signed to carry the channel in some small markets.

- The good news: EVERYTHING WILL BE SHOWN IT ITS ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIO. No stretching. No cropping. No exceptions.

- The bad news: For right now, everything is being upconverted, rather than being shown in native HD. This is temporary (a year or two?) and as my friend pointed out (and has been discussed here) the material still looks worlds better than it does on the SD channel.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1152849/turner-classic-movies-tcm-in-hdtv/90#post_16680473

and that was posted waaaaay back on 6/18/09, over 3 years ago.
post #1546 of 1760
Yep, I remember that, and nothing since. That was as close to official words as we've had.
post #1547 of 1760
Yet, TCM in France is gorgeous!
post #1548 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbawc View Post

Yep, I remember that, and nothing since. That was as close to official words as we've had.

Yeah I guess I was delusional. Wishful thinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

Yet, TCM in France is gorgeous!

Maybe because in the US there's about a zillion channels that have to be squeezed into the same bandwidth, the channels are bit starved.

What's the cable / satellite structure like in France. How much does it cost on average, how many channels? Is it a niche market, or do you pretty much have to have cable to get anything popular, like soccer?
post #1549 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

Maybe because in the US there's about a zillion channels that have to be squeezed into the same bandwidth, the channels are bit starved.
What's the cable / satellite structure like in France. How much does it cost on average, how many channels? Is it a niche market, or do you pretty much have to have cable to get anything popular, like soccer?
But that makes little sense as a reason for this.

Whether it's upconverted ort native, it's still an HD signal at the end of the chain. It doesn't save any bandwidth.

In fact, it makes it harder to compress to fit it into signal space since you're starting off with a softer image. If it were native HD, you could use more compression before it starts to visibly affect the image quality since you'd be starting off with a sharper image to begin with.

I still think this is some sort of rights issue with the content and I think TCM is using some sort of silly loophole to avoid paying more for sending out HD versions of the content.

At one point, I would have believed it was the expense of an equipment upgrade, but too much time has passed for the to be the case at this point.
post #1550 of 1760
I wish that made you/me an 'expert' smile.gif

So what about other channels? Obviously any new content (Mad Men, etc.) on AMC is actual HD, but what about when they're airing older content. Are they doing what TCM is doing perhaps? And how about TNT HD or TBS HD - Are old Seinfield and Friends episodes actually remastered to HD? Even reruns on Discovery Channel...
post #1551 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isadora View Post

I wish that made you/me an 'expert' smile.gif
So what about other channels? Obviously any new content (Mad Men, etc.) on AMC is actual HD, but what about when they're airing older content. Are they doing what TCM is doing perhaps? And how about TNT HD or TBS HD - Are old Seinfield and Friends episodes actually remastered to HD? Even reruns on Discovery Channel...

There are several different scenarios here:

When AMC airs older content it is at least sometimes in HD. In general if an HD master exists they air it in HD, although there are probably occasions where that is not true for whatever reason. That said they plaster their logo on it, have huge snipes, and just about always crop to 16x9. Oh and they seem to play the same few movies over and over and over again. TCM's presentation is much better than AMC's.

Seinfeld has been seen on TBS in actual HD for a few years. Friends too I think but I haven't actually seen it myself (holding out for the BD boxset). Many of Discovery Channels older shows were shot on standard def tape, there is no way to remaster them for HD.

Here's the issues with TCM: Some of the movies they air are available in HD. We know this because they're available on BD or have been seen in HD on other channels. Not all of them are. Why they don't air movies in HD when there is an available HD master? Only 2 possible explanations IMO, either they're being total cheapskates (the cost to upgrade equipment just to air recorded material has to be pocket change for Time-Warner), or they're just completely indifferent. No one here is expecting them to go back and remaster every single title in their library to air in HD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

But that makes little sense as a reason for this.
Whether it's upconverted ort native, it's still an HD signal at the end of the chain. It doesn't save any bandwidth.
In fact, it makes it harder to compress to fit it into signal space since you're starting off with a softer image. If it were native HD, you could use more compression before it starts to visibly affect the image quality since you'd be starting off with a sharper image to begin with.
I still think this is some sort of rights issue with the content and I think TCM is using some sort of silly loophole to avoid paying more for sending out HD versions of the content.
At one point, I would have believed it was the expense of an equipment upgrade, but too much time has passed for the to be the case at this point.

But that makes no sense for titles outright owned by them. Even if they're owned by another subsidiary of Time Warner, it wouldn't even require actual money changing hands. And it still means they're total tightwads.
Edited by lobosrul - 10/26/12 at 1:41pm
post #1552 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

But that makes no sense for titles outright owned by them. Even if they're owned by another subsidiary of Time Warner, it wouldn't even require actual money changing hands. And it still means they're total tightwads.
Not true.

Different divisions have their own budgets and have to stick to them. They have to bid for them just like everyone else. If some other channel wants the rights bad enough, they can outbid TCM. It may be that someone else is paying more for the exclusive rights to the HD versions of some of those movies, so TCM can't air them in native HD. It's possible that downconverting, then upconverting is a loophole thing to get around that issue.

It's the same with TV series. If a studio can get more money for a series selling it to another network instead of their own, they'll do it.

It applies to making movies, too. The Lethal Weapon franchise is owned by Warner Brothers Pictures. However, Warner Brothers Pictures is a different division than Warner Brothers Studios. Therefore, a Warner Brothers Pictures production has to pay Warner Brothers Studios to rent sound stages, props and other items made available at the studio. Same company, different budget sheets.
Edited by NetworkTV - 10/27/12 at 1:11pm
post #1553 of 1760
On the TCM HD channel in Canada, some movies are occasionally blacked out. The EPG (electronic program guide) will say that TCM does not have the hd copyrights for this movie in Canada, but you can watch this movie on the TCM sd channel, which is not blacked out. Makes sense, for some movies they don't have hd rights but they can show them in sd. The puzzling part is that the hd channel is not showing any true hd, just like the American version.
post #1554 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

At one point, I would have believed it was the expense of an equipment upgrade, but too much time has passed for the to be the case at this point.

But that is the reason. Time passing does not make it any cheaper.
It's all about how they spend their budget. And most viewers (not us AVS people) don't really care. They see movies they can't see elsewhere and are very happy.
post #1555 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3193 View Post

But that is the reason. Time passing does not make it any cheaper.
Uh, yes it does.

HD production equipment is significantly cheaper than it was just 5 years ago - and getting cheaper, smaller and more efficient all the time.
post #1556 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Uh, yes it does.
HD production equipment is significantly cheaper than it was just 5 years ago - and getting cheaper, smaller and more efficient all the time.

Yes, I know this, and I should have chosen my words more carefully. It's a matter of the cost and budget priorities.
Edited by d3193 - 10/28/12 at 2:54pm
post #1557 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3193 View Post

It's a matter of the cost and budget priorities.

It's a matter of Warner being Warner.
post #1558 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Not true.
Different divisions have their own budgets and have to stick to them. They have to bid for them just like everyone else. If some other channel wants the rights bad enough, they can outbid TCM. It may be that someone else is paying more for the exclusive rights to the HD versions of some of those movies, so TCM can't air them in native HD. It's possible that downconverting, then upconverting is a loophole thing to get around that issue.
It's the same with TV series. If a studio can get more money for a series selling it to another network instead of their own, they'll do it.
It applies to making movies, too. The Lethal Weapon franchise is owned by Warner Brothers Pictures. However, Warner Brothers Pictures is a different division than Warner Brothers Studios. Therefore, a Warner Brothers Pictures production has to pay Warner Brothers Studios to rent sound stages, props and other items made available at the studio. Same company, different budget sheets.

That is still all just "bean counting". Warner Pictures is always going to use Warner Studios unless its impossible for them to do so, or they feel they can save money. I work for a company that does transfers with other divisions of the same corporation, I know how it works. We sure as hell are not required to bid for supplies from outside.

Even if someone out there has exclusive HD rights on some of their catalog, I can't fathom that they have exclusivity on ALL of it. There are older films in TCM's library that I don't believe have even aired elsewhere in the US at all, at least not in the last decade, of which a handful have an HD master made. What other national channel even plays movies made before about 1960 in HD? MGM is all I can think of. Who would spend money to buy up exclusive HD rights to really old movies with only a relative small amount of them even being available in HD, to then not air them??

Actually I think you may be partially right. They can't air some films in HD because they are required to pay a bit extra to show them in HD. Warner is too cheap to pay any extra, and they're too lazy to keep track of what they actually can air. So everything is upscaled SD.
Edited by lobosrul - 10/29/12 at 9:23am
post #1559 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

That is still all just "bean counting". Warner Pictures is always going to use Warner Studios unless its impossible for them to do so, or they feel they can save money. I work for a company that does transfers with other divisions of the same corporation, I know how it works. We sure as hell are not required to bid for supplies from outside.
Even if someone out there has exclusive HD rights on some of their catalog, I can't fathom that they have exclusivity on ALL of it. There are older films in TCM's library that I don't believe have even aired elsewhere in the US at all, at least not in the last decade, of which a handful have an HD master made. What other national channel even plays movies made before about 1960 in HD? MGM is all I can think of. Who would spend money to buy up exclusive HD rights to really old movies with only a relative small amount of them even being available in HD, to then not air them??
Actually I think you may be partially right. They can't air some films in HD because they are required to pay a bit extra to show them in HD. Warner is too cheap to pay any extra, and they're too lazy to keep track of what they actually can air. So everything is upscaled SD.

Although there might be rights costs involved in using HD versions of some films - and as you say WB/Turner itself controls a vast library of movies, many available in HD transfers - the main reason for lack of HD on this channel is the cost of upgrading the facility.
post #1560 of 1760
Just Speculating -but, TCMHD is still doing SD content based on its precieved Viewing Demographic.

Translation: Turner Classic Movies executives believe that mainly older people watch TCM.

They believe that the older persons majority still have older CRT SD Televisions and have not upgraded to HD.

Not my beliefs, yet the TCM suits also think that the TNTHD and TBSHD cover the Younger (HD) Demographic.

Evidence: the Seinfeld and Friends HD upgades.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Programming
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Programming › Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in HDTV!