Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in HDTV! - Page 52

Sure.

It all used to look that good before bandwidth crunching and subchannels.

I dunno. I think many DBS/cable customers in Europe get high rate MPEG-4 channels, and no recompression from their provider. We're remembering back to the days of ota channels with no subchannels at 19Mbps MPEG-2. Which is still don't think is as good. You really can't tell much from a picture of a TV, those aren't actual caps.

Two questions:

1) Did you ever watch HD back in the early days of it (like around 2000)?

2) Have you been to Europe and viewed HD?

If not, you're just speculating.

In my case, the answer is yes to both.

1) Around 2003. Besides which my CBS station still has no subs and uses pretty much all their bandwidth.
2) Watched some captures of BBC-HD in its early days. Blew any domestic HD I've seen out of the water.

Some new guy coming here would be pretty confused to see those Jaws pics lauded for PQ, then going to the BD forum and, err ...

Depends on your expectations what good PQ is.

For me, for TV, DirecTV's delivery of the Orioles on TBS tonight is pretty amazing. Can't get away from motion artifacts, especially with grass and dirt, but everything else, artistic as well as technical, is great. Enjoy it while it lasts, sigh.

Hello ,

TCM HD fr. 1920x1080i bitrate Mpeg-4 15 Mbp/s ...

Never on the US TCM "HD" channel, that's for sure.

How about any OTHER channel?

TCM-HD went live on the U.K.'s Sky satellite service last month.

 

Go to post #44 to begin reading the first actual sightings:

 

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1720878
 

No way to tell for sure from a photo at 1024x576 pixels of a TV screen like those posted here.

And if I told you otherwise, you should call me a liar.

But it is easy to tell that it's better than SD converted to HD.
Edited by nathan_h - 10/15/12 at 8:21pm

Hi everyone on this thread!

If anyone here could be considered an EXPERT on this issue (TCM HD channel not showing in HD), I'm very interested in speaking with you!!

There's not much to being an "expert" on TCM not showing true HD. I've been a long-time TCM viewer, and had TCMHD for a couple of years. They have never shown true HD, and have made no public announcements about when they will, or why they aren't showing it yet. That's all the info there is on the subject. Now, you're an "expert" too...

I may be delusional, but I recall when TCMHD was in embryo, some "sources" claimed they already had hundreds of movies already transferred and ready to go.

Now, nothing. What a disappointment.

Remember when AMC was the lame channel? Now they have Mad Men and Breaking Bad. Apples and oranges, yes, but what nice shining apples!

AMC may be true HD but they also have commercials and edit movies. At one time AMC and TCM were direct competitors, but that time is long gone. TCM stayed true to their audience, while AMC sold out.

I don't remember anything about having content ready to go but I do remember the post quoted below,

and that was posted waaaaay back on 6/18/09, over 3 years ago.

Yep, I remember that, and nothing since. That was as close to official words as we've had.

Yet, TCM in France is gorgeous!

Yeah I guess I was delusional. Wishful thinking?

Maybe because in the US there's about a zillion channels that have to be squeezed into the same bandwidth, the channels are bit starved.

What's the cable / satellite structure like in France. How much does it cost on average, how many channels? Is it a niche market, or do you pretty much have to have cable to get anything popular, like soccer?

But that makes little sense as a reason for this.

Whether it's upconverted ort native, it's still an HD signal at the end of the chain. It doesn't save any bandwidth.

In fact, it makes it harder to compress to fit it into signal space since you're starting off with a softer image. If it were native HD, you could use more compression before it starts to visibly affect the image quality since you'd be starting off with a sharper image to begin with.

I still think this is some sort of rights issue with the content and I think TCM is using some sort of silly loophole to avoid paying more for sending out HD versions of the content.

At one point, I would have believed it was the expense of an equipment upgrade, but too much time has passed for the to be the case at this point.

I wish that made you/me an 'expert'

So what about other channels? Obviously any new content (Mad Men, etc.) on AMC is actual HD, but what about when they're airing older content. Are they doing what TCM is doing perhaps? And how about TNT HD or TBS HD - Are old Seinfield and Friends episodes actually remastered to HD? Even reruns on Discovery Channel...

There are several different scenarios here:

When AMC airs older content it is at least sometimes in HD. In general if an HD master exists they air it in HD, although there are probably occasions where that is not true for whatever reason. That said they plaster their logo on it, have huge snipes, and just about always crop to 16x9. Oh and they seem to play the same few movies over and over and over again. TCM's presentation is much better than AMC's.

Seinfeld has been seen on TBS in actual HD for a few years. Friends too I think but I haven't actually seen it myself (holding out for the BD boxset). Many of Discovery Channels older shows were shot on standard def tape, there is no way to remaster them for HD.

Here's the issues with TCM: Some of the movies they air are available in HD. We know this because they're available on BD or have been seen in HD on other channels. Not all of them are. Why they don't air movies in HD when there is an available HD master? Only 2 possible explanations IMO, either they're being total cheapskates (the cost to upgrade equipment just to air recorded material has to be pocket change for Time-Warner), or they're just completely indifferent. No one here is expecting them to go back and remaster every single title in their library to air in HD.

But that makes no sense for titles outright owned by them. Even if they're owned by another subsidiary of Time Warner, it wouldn't even require actual money changing hands. And it still means they're total tightwads.
Edited by lobosrul - 10/26/12 at 1:41pm

Not true.

Different divisions have their own budgets and have to stick to them. They have to bid for them just like everyone else. If some other channel wants the rights bad enough, they can outbid TCM. It may be that someone else is paying more for the exclusive rights to the HD versions of some of those movies, so TCM can't air them in native HD. It's possible that downconverting, then upconverting is a loophole thing to get around that issue.

It's the same with TV series. If a studio can get more money for a series selling it to another network instead of their own, they'll do it.

It applies to making movies, too. The Lethal Weapon franchise is owned by Warner Brothers Pictures. However, Warner Brothers Pictures is a different division than Warner Brothers Studios. Therefore, a Warner Brothers Pictures production has to pay Warner Brothers Studios to rent sound stages, props and other items made available at the studio. Same company, different budget sheets.
Edited by NetworkTV - 10/27/12 at 1:11pm

On the TCM HD channel in Canada, some movies are occasionally blacked out. The EPG (electronic program guide) will say that TCM does not have the hd copyrights for this movie in Canada, but you can watch this movie on the TCM sd channel, which is not blacked out. Makes sense, for some movies they don't have hd rights but they can show them in sd. The puzzling part is that the hd channel is not showing any true hd, just like the American version.

But that is the reason. Time passing does not make it any cheaper.
It's all about how they spend their budget. And most viewers (not us AVS people) don't really care. They see movies they can't see elsewhere and are very happy.

Uh, yes it does.

HD production equipment is significantly cheaper than it was just 5 years ago - and getting cheaper, smaller and more efficient all the time.

Yes, I know this, and I should have chosen my words more carefully. It's a matter of the cost and budget priorities.
Edited by d3193 - 10/28/12 at 2:54pm

It's a matter of Warner being Warner.

That is still all just "bean counting". Warner Pictures is always going to use Warner Studios unless its impossible for them to do so, or they feel they can save money. I work for a company that does transfers with other divisions of the same corporation, I know how it works. We sure as hell are not required to bid for supplies from outside.

Even if someone out there has exclusive HD rights on some of their catalog, I can't fathom that they have exclusivity on ALL of it. There are older films in TCM's library that I don't believe have even aired elsewhere in the US at all, at least not in the last decade, of which a handful have an HD master made. What other national channel even plays movies made before about 1960 in HD? MGM is all I can think of. Who would spend money to buy up exclusive HD rights to really old movies with only a relative small amount of them even being available in HD, to then not air them??

Actually I think you may be partially right. They can't air some films in HD because they are required to pay a bit extra to show them in HD. Warner is too cheap to pay any extra, and they're too lazy to keep track of what they actually can air. So everything is upscaled SD.
Edited by lobosrul - 10/29/12 at 9:23am

Although there might be rights costs involved in using HD versions of some films - and as you say WB/Turner itself controls a vast library of movies, many available in HD transfers - the main reason for lack of HD on this channel is the cost of upgrading the facility.

Just Speculating -but, TCMHD is still doing SD content based on its precieved Viewing Demographic.

Translation: Turner Classic Movies executives believe that mainly older people watch TCM.

They believe that the older persons majority still have older CRT SD Televisions and have not upgraded to HD.

Not my beliefs, yet the TCM suits also think that the TNTHD and TBSHD cover the Younger (HD) Demographic.

Evidence: the Seinfeld and Friends HD upgades.