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Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in HDTV! - Page 55

post #1621 of 1760
Poor Urga!
post #1622 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

Poor Urga!

 

I know...he's so busy taking perfect screen shots he can't actually watch any of the movies. frown.gif

post #1623 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solfan View Post

I know...he's so busy taking perfect screen shots he can't actually watch any of the movies. frown.gif
Hello ,

Reassures you I watch a lot of movies ... wink.gif
post #1624 of 1760
Recorded LOA on my Dish 622 via Sony Movie Channel. TV is a Panasonic TC-P65GT30 that was professionally calibrated in May of ’12. Top photos of each pic are mine; Urga's the bottom.



post #1625 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

Recorded LOA on my Dish 622 via Sony Movie Channel. TV is a Panasonic TC-P65GT30 that was professionally calibrated in May of ’12. Top photos of each pic are mine; Urga's the bottom.

France wins 2 nil. The US HDTV system is downright pathetic. But don't you dare call DISH HDTV anything but great, or you'll get called a troll on sat-guys forum.
post #1626 of 1760
Although it is interesting to see these pictures, they do not tell us very much. Urga's shots show a higher gamma (crushing of details in the shadow areas), which could be from the transmission, the way his TV is set up, or the camera he used to shoot the image on his TV - or a combination of the three. A higher gamma, while resulting in loss of shadow detail, also gives the impression of greater sharpness and less noise in the dark areas - you win some, you lose some. So it can be a matter of taste. Do you prefer the subtler gray-scale in your images or the sharper looking picture that Urga posted? And which are closer to the way the film looks?
post #1627 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3193 View Post

Although it is interesting to see these pictures, they do not tell us very much. Urga's shots show a higher gamma (crushing of details in the shadow areas), which could be from the transmission, the way his TV is set up, or the camera he used to shoot the image on his TV - or a combination of the three. A higher gamma, while resulting in loss of shadow detail, also gives the impression of greater sharpness and less noise in the dark areas - you win some, you lose some. So it can be a matter of taste. Do you prefer the subtler gray-scale in your images or the sharper looking picture that Urga posted? And which are closer to the way the film looks?

My best guess is, his TV or camera are increasing the gamma, and crushing details, which I certainly don't like. Even so, I'd take it over the Dish network pics. I have Dish, and I'd say those pictures are accurate. I feel like I'm wearing fogged up glasses, on some channels, when watching Dish.
post #1628 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

Recorded LOA on my Dish 622 via Sony Movie Channel. TV is a Panasonic TC-P65GT30 that was professionally calibrated in May of ’12. Top photos of each pic are mine; Urga's the bottom.


I can clearly see that it's not the HD its looks to the SD on Sony Channe l... eek.gif
The TCM HD image to a much finer texture with precise details blur-free ... wink.gif

the image of the blu-ray:


Edited by Urga - 12/29/12 at 10:07am
post #1629 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3193 View Post

Although it is interesting to see these pictures, they do not tell us very much. Urga's shots show a higher gamma (crushing of details in the shadow areas), which could be from the transmission, the way his TV is set up, or the camera he used to shoot the image on his TV - or a combination of the three. A higher gamma, while resulting in loss of shadow detail, also gives the impression of greater sharpness and less noise in the dark areas - you win some, you lose some. So it can be a matter of taste. Do you prefer the subtler gray-scale in your images or the sharper looking picture that Urga posted? And which are closer to the way the film looks?
While I agree that pictures over the Internet don’t always work for various reasons, different monitors being a huge one, I have to say my pics are extremely accurate. After taking the pics I compared them to the broadcast itself and they are spot on, and what I’m seeing on my monitor varies little to the broadcast itself.

Because of the clarity of Urga’s pics I shot them with a very small aperture to try and give a greater depth of field and a sharper background. I shot several with different shutter speeds in order to best reproduce the color we see in Urga’s pics. What is interesting to me is the color of the sleeping mans coat. In mine it’s light green, and in the HD and BD pics by Urga it’s black. Urga hasn’t told us whether he has had his TV calibrated or not. It looks to me like it is set close to torch mode, which is why everything is so bright. You can’t beat the clarity, but the colors are too intense for me. I can also see a red push in both HD and BD and you shouldn’t see that if the set has been calibrated to the fullest. All of this is very unscientific but I always enjoy taking and comparing pictures.
Edited by Aliens - 12/29/12 at 10:37am
post #1630 of 1760
For the colo I extended Gamut and not in standard gamut ... wink.gif
post #1631 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

While I agree that pictures over the Internet don’t always work for various reasons, different monitors being a huge one, I have to say my pics are extremely accurate. After taking the pics I compared them to the broadcast itself and they are spot on, and what I’m seeing on my monitor varies little to the broadcast itself.
Because of the clarity of Urga’s pics I shot them with a very small aperture to try and give a greater depth of field and a sharper background. I shot several with different shutter speeds in order to best reproduce the color we see in Urga’s pics. What is interesting to me is the color of the sleeping mans coat. In mine it’s light green, and in the HD and BD pics by Urga it’s black. Urga hasn’t told us whether he has had his TV calibrated or not. It looks to me like it is set close to torch mode, which is why everything is so bright. You can’t beat the clarity, but the colors are too intense for me. I can also see a red push in both HD and BD and you shouldn’t see that if the set has been calibrated to the fullest. All of this is very unscientific but I always enjoy taking and comparing pictures.



Is also of the green in the beard ... wink.gif
post #1632 of 1760
" Damn the Defiant! :







wink.gif
post #1633 of 1760
I think Alien has a plasma tv judging from the "less white whites." He has a great picture from Dish, but it doesn't measure up to Urga's. Thanks to both of you for your efforts. It's very interesting.
post #1634 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

I think Alien has a plasma tv judging from the "less white whites." He has a great picture from Dish, but it doesn't measure up to Urga's. Thanks to both of you for your efforts. It's very interesting.
I do, but those whites vary depending on the source. As I posted earlier, I think Urga has his in torch mode and it hasn't been calibrated. I could be wrong, but I'd really be interested in what he has to say about that.
post #1635 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3193 View Post

Although it is interesting to see these pictures, they do not tell us very much. Urga's shots show a higher gamma (crushing of details in the shadow areas), which could be from the transmission, the way his TV is set up, or the camera he used to shoot the image on his TV - or a combination of the three. A higher gamma, while resulting in loss of shadow detail, also gives the impression of greater sharpness and less noise in the dark areas - you win some, you lose some. So it can be a matter of taste. Do you prefer the subtler gray-scale in your images or the sharper looking picture that Urga posted? And which are closer to the way the film looks?

 

I've noticed that there's some edge-enhancement added in Urga's pics, too.


Edited by Rammitinski - 12/30/12 at 4:30am
post #1636 of 1760

Just a little edge and contrast enhancement makes Aliens' LOA capture look much better!

 

Aliens original Dish USA capture:

 

1000

 

 

 

Same as above, with just a little  [Picasa]  tweaking.:

 

1000

post #1637 of 1760

Yeah, that's much improved. 

 

I guess that shows what Dish could accomplish, if they actually cared enough.


Edited by Rammitinski - 12/30/12 at 4:32am
post #1638 of 1760
Hello ,

For Spades/sharpness adjustment of the Kuro: Enhancer Mode: 2 , Sharpness - 4 ... cool.gif
post #1639 of 1760
Tell me, Urga, does most of your television viewing look like what you are showing us? When you "click around the dial" is this pretty much what you see?
post #1640 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

Tell me, Urga, does most of your television viewing look like what you are showing us? When you "click around the dial" is this pretty much what you see?
Yes ,
The Live image is even better than on the screens... cool.gif
post #1641 of 1760
The Kuro is a must in this area of image processing, never seen better ... wink.gif
post #1642 of 1760
Urga, can you take some pics of programming from other channels? Something people in the US would be familiar with, like Mad Men or a Planet Earth, etc.

(I know it's off topic, but it's not like we have a lot to talk about in this thread)
post #1643 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urga View Post

TCM HD fr. :
Mpeg4 , 1920x1080i 75Hz , 16,4 Mbits/s , Pal RGB 16-235 ...wink.gif

The two parameters in bold are probably the number one reason why HDTV programming in much of the world outside of North America and a few countries in the Far East looks so much better. Roughly speaking, MPEG4 is about twice as efficient as MPEG2, so to match the quality of the 16.4 Mbps MPEG4 stream in France, a North American MPEG2 stream would have to run around 33 Mbps. As far as I know, no pay providers in the United States offer any programming to the end consumer at a bit rate even close to that level (the HD channels offered by my cable provider run around 11-14 Mbps MPEG2, although I've noticed a few sports channels averaging 17-19 Mbps), and our MPEG2 OTA system doesn't even allow for a bit rater higher than about 19 Mbps, with the majority of stations operating HD services around 12-15 Mbps MPEG2 since they have subchannels and/or mobile DTV services taking bits away from the HD stream.

Thanks to H.264/MPEG4, HDTV in other parts of the world, even when a lower average bit rate like 12 Mbps is used, can truly be a sight to behold and really put to shame the quality of HDTV broadcasts in North America. I suppose that's what we get, though, for being relatively early to adopt HDTV and HDTV standards rather than waiting a bit, like many other countries did, for a subsequent generation of standards to be developed before rolling out HDTV to the masses.
post #1644 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

Urga, can you take some pics of programming from other channels? Something people in the US would be familiar with, like Mad Men or a Planet Earth, etc.
(I know it's off topic, but it's not like we have a lot to talk about in this thread)

I have this available:





String HDTV sports ... wink.gif
post #1645 of 1760
Another string HDTV Franco-German:











post #1646 of 1760
Another string HDTV:


post #1647 of 1760
Thank you very much, Urga, to supplying so many pictures for analysis. A quick look says to me that this is more like what I see here. Good clear picture, but, perhaps, a little softer than the Euro TCM pictures.
post #1648 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by agus0103 View Post

The two parameters in bold are probably the number one reason why HDTV programming in much of the world outside of North America and a few countries in the Far East looks so much better. Roughly speaking, MPEG4 is about twice as efficient as MPEG2, so to match the quality of the 16.4 Mbps MPEG4 stream in France, a North American MPEG2 stream would have to run around 33 Mbps. As far as I know, no pay providers in the United States offer any programming to the end consumer at a bit rate even close to that level (the HD channels offered by my cable provider run around 11-14 Mbps MPEG2, although I've noticed a few sports channels averaging 17-19 Mbps), and our MPEG2 OTA system doesn't even allow for a bit rater higher than about 19 Mbps, with the majority of stations operating HD services around 12-15 Mbps MPEG2 since they have subchannels and/or mobile DTV services taking bits away from the HD stream.
Thanks to H.264/MPEG4, HDTV in other parts of the world, even when a lower average bit rate like 12 Mbps is used, can truly be a sight to behold and really put to shame the quality of HDTV broadcasts in North America. I suppose that's what we get, though, for being relatively early to adopt HDTV and HDTV standards rather than waiting a bit, like many other countries did, for a subsequent generation of standards to be developed before rolling out HDTV to the masses.

Can North America switch to MPEG4?
post #1649 of 1760

Dish rolled out MPEG4 here in the US in 2008, I think.


Edited by Solfan - 12/31/12 at 11:10am
post #1650 of 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

Can North America switch to MPEG4?
It's already started, but it will only mean that carriers will be able to squeeze even more channels into the same chunk of bandwidth with no appreciable increase in picture quality.

I think Dish is squeezing 9 channels per 40mb transponder? That's a long ways from what Urga is getting with a "Mpeg4 , 1920x1080i 75Hz , 16,4 Mbits/s , Pal RGB 16-235" stream. Dish uses maybe a third of that bandwidth, and if I'm not mistaken, they only send 1440x1080i as the top resolution.
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