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*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1610/590 owner's thread - Page 54

post #1591 of 5119
12/17/09 at 10:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:


I'll double check to make sure speakers are small, make sure the xover is set there and I'll run it again.

No need to do this -- Audyssey ignores all your settings as the whole point is to figure out the optimal settings for you. AFTER you run Audyssey you may need to check the speaker config and make manual adjustments (e.g. raising the crossover if it's lower than 80Hz) but you don't need to do anything in the receiver beforehand.
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post #1592 of 5119
12/17/09 at 10:26am
Just picked up my AVR-590 this afternoon from Best Buy (who price matched it). I am eager to get this thing setup - is there anything I should know/do before testing it out tonight? I started to read through the 50 some odd pages in this thread and got dizzy. So far I am just running it to four 6 1/2" Monoprice in-wall speakers (going to run a phantom center for the time being). I am also planning on ordering the PA-120 subwoofer after the Holidays. Hopefully this will be a nice budget setup!
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post #1593 of 5119
12/17/09 at 10:31am
Thread Starter 
just follow my setup guide and you should be good to go (see the link in my signature, below). let us know if you have any questions...
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post #1594 of 5119
12/17/09 at 1:41pm
Ok quick question, I am playing my first blu-ray movie since setting this up, I set my panasonic BD60 to bitstream, here is my question. I can hit the "D/ST" button on the dneon remote and on the display on the AVR it says Direct and DTS Master blue light is on. NOw I can also hit "STD" on the remote and it says DTS-HD MA on the AVR display and the blue master HD light is on as well. So which mode should I be in for best sound?
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post #1595 of 5119
12/17/09 at 2:15pm
Thread Starter 
Standard.

Direct mode bypasses all processing, including Audyssey, bass management... so you are losing out on all the goodness of the processing this receiver can do for surround sound. Plus if you don't have big speakers, you can damage them by sending a full range signal (since you aren't getting any bass management). It is really intended more for music "purists" who want to listen to un-processed sound on large, high-end speakers.

See my FAQ to learn more: http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audio
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post #1596 of 5119
12/17/09 at 2:53pm
Ran Audyssey and it made a big difference.

SW is set to +3.5db and I could hear it in a lot more of the programing. Not sure if I'm totally happy with it though. It seems to be a little bit boomy but that could be settings I have yet to adjust. All speakers are set to small which default them to hz. I bumped them to 110hz. Audyssey put the L R at +1.5 and the center at 2.0 I think. It seemed to have created a bit more of a disparity between the sub and sats. I'm not sure what normal settings are for the sub but I'm thinking about putting the speaker settings back down to 80 hz or drop the sub down to 80-100hz to smooth it out a bit. It sounds nice though and I appreciate all the help.

For the most accurate sound, Is it better to raise the +db on the sub and turn down the sub volume or turn up the sub volume and turn downt he db?

I also have the port facing me, I'm thinking I dont like it as much that way, I'm going to experiment with the position so I cant clearly pick out the rumble cause right now I can.
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post #1597 of 5119
12/17/09 at 3:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Audyssey put the L R at +1.5 and the center at 2.0 I think. It seemed to have created a bit more of a disparity between the sub and sats.

don't change the volumes, that is just what is necessary to balance all the speakers. It is not creating any "disparity". The sub/sat blend is going to be determined by the crossover frequency, but most importantly the positioning of the sub and how it interacts with your room acoustics.

Quote:
SW is set to +3.5db and I could hear it in a lot more of the programing. Not sure if I'm totally happy with it though. It seems to be a little bit boomy but that could be settings I have yet to adjust.

the primary cause of boominess is poor positioning of the sub -- if you have time, you may want to experiment with different positions and see if another spot provides smoother response. Also, if you didn't yet, running all 6 positions will give Audyssey MultEQ more data to work with in smoothing low-end response.

if the boominess is only with cable TV programming (and movies sound fine), you should lower the Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset (Parameters > Audyssey Settings) down to -10dB. This will lessen the aggressiveness of the "boost" that Dynamic EQ is doing to your sub.

Quote:
I'm not sure what normal settings are for the sub but I'm thinking about putting the speaker settings back down to 80 hz

What speakers do you have? There are no "normal" settings, the point of the Audyssey system is to measure the response of YOUR speakers in YOUR room (not any spec on paper), so don't assume 80Hz is the "best" setting for your specific setup.

Quote:
or drop the sub down to 80-100hz to smooth it out a bit.

Don't touch the knobs on the sub after running Audyssey. The crossover is bypassed and all the bass managment is controlled by the crossover freq. you set for the speakers.

Quote:
For the most accurate sound, Is it better to raise the +db on the sub and turn down the sub volume or turn up the sub volume and turn downt he db?

Neither is more "accurate", the combination of the digital signal gain and the sub's amp gain will produce the same SPL in the room (assuming you equalize the volume after fiddling). But as I said above, after Audyssey you do NOT want to touch the knobs on the sub. If you want to tweak the bass, adjust the SW channel level in the AVR.

Quote:
I also have the port facing me, I'm thinking I dont like it as much that way, I'm going to experiment with the position so I cant clearly pick out the rumble cause right now I can.

What sub do you have? In general, the port should face a wall (ideally with at least a foot of separation to prevent boominess).
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post #1598 of 5119
12/17/09 at 8:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

don't change the volumes, that is just what is necessary to balance all the speakers. It is not creating any "disparity". The sub/sat blend is going to be determined by the crossover frequency, but most importantly the positioning of the sub and how it interacts with your room acoustics.



the primary cause of boominess is poor positioning of the sub -- if you have time, you may want to experiment with different positions and see if another spot provides smoother response. Also, if you didn't yet, running all 6 positions will give Audyssey MultEQ more data to work with in smoothing low-end response.

if the boominess is only with cable TV programming (and movies sound fine), you should lower the Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset (Parameters > Audyssey Settings) down to -10dB. This will lessen the aggressiveness of the "boost" that Dynamic EQ is doing to your sub.



What speakers do you have? There are no "normal" settings, the point of the Audyssey system is to measure the response of YOUR speakers in YOUR room (not any spec on paper), so don't assume 80Hz is the "best" setting for your specific setup.



Don't touch the knobs on the sub after running Audyssey. The crossover is bypassed and all the bass managment is controlled by the crossover freq. you set for the speakers.



Neither is more "accurate", the combination of the digital signal gain and the sub's amp gain will produce the same SPL in the room (assuming you equalize the volume after fiddling). But as I said above, after Audyssey you do NOT want to touch the knobs on the sub. If you want to tweak the bass, adjust the SW channel level in the AVR.



What sub do you have? In general, the port should face a wall (ideally with at least a foot of separation to prevent boominess).


Bat, thank you very much for you help. I've ran the full Audyssey auto adjust and the system sounds great. I didnt mess with any settings other then toying with the sub a bit. I have another set of speakers (TSC p5's) and ran it again to compare which I like better but both times the sub was between +3 and +5db and the sound is perfect. Its very subtle but on parts where it counts system SHINES.

The Sub I'm using is a BIC V1020, I knew I had 2 sets of speakers to compensate for and I read a lot of positive reviews stating its punchy and can hit low and I can vouch for that now.

I popped in Star Trek and just had a smile on my face when the Enterprise warped into combat (if you know the movie). I also turned the subs port to face into the tv stand, rather then firing at me. HUGE improvement on sound. There is about 3-4" of clearance there but it turned the sub from muddy to specific with 0 localization. I know having it to the wall is ideal but I have people in the surrounding rooms that I try not to disturb, but damn. This is a kick ass system.

The full 6 level run is what really did it. I was only doing 1 before. I must say the TSC P5's are an amazing set, possibly better price/performance then that Energy set, but I'll have a full review in my VS. thread.

Thank again bat. I've saved this info you gave me in a word doc on my desktop incase I even need to refer back to it.
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post #1599 of 5119
12/17/09 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4me View Post

Bat, thank you very much for you help. I've ran the full Audyssey auto adjust and the system sounds great. I didnt mess with any settings other then toying with the sub a bit. I have another set of speakers (TSC p5's) and ran it again to compare which I like better but both times the sub was between +3 and +5db and the sound is perfect. Its very subtle but on parts where it counts system SHINES.

And thank you Audio4me, I followed your other thread and also ordered the 1610 which is presently in transit (According to FedEx) and should be here Saturday. I also printed out Batpig's word file and have it ready for when my system arrives. I have put my old Pioneer system on Criag's list and hope to sell it this weekend. And I have been following your installation and setup and hopefully know what I need to do when mine arrives. I have already turned my sub around to face the wall and I didn't know that before. Thanks again and enjoy your new Denon.
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post #1600 of 5119
12/17/09 at 10:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynott View Post

And thank you Audio4me, I followed your other thread and also ordered the 1610 which is presently in transit (According to FedEx) and should be here Saturday. I also printed out Batpig's word file and have it ready for when my system arrives. I have put my old Pioneer system on Criag's list and hope to sell it this weekend. And I have been following your installation and setup and hopefully know what I need to do when mine arrives. I have already turned my sub around to face the wall and I didn't know that before. Thanks again and enjoy your new Denon.

That word file is a lifesaver! I deffinately would have asked alot more questions then I have if I didnt use that when setting mine up!
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post #1601 of 5119
12/18/09 at 5:37am
Can someone provide more information on what "Offest" on the status display means? I have seen anywhere from -4dB to -11dB with Dolby Digital sources.

I have read that "it is the DD Dialog Normalization Factor and is set by the source signal."

I am bitstreaming from a Panasonic BD-35. Shouldn't the bitstreamed signal be unprocessed by the player? Or is the Offest determined by the source material?

I have verified that all dynamic range compression settings are "off."

Thanks in advance.
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post #1602 of 5119
12/18/09 at 6:11am
Ok guys,

I went out and ordered a Denon 1610 with a set Mordaunt Short Carnival 5.1 speakers. Expected to arrive next week before Xmas

Will keep everyone posted once I setup everything.
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post #1603 of 5119
12/18/09 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolverine 250r View Post

Can someone provide more information on what "Offest" on the status display means? I have seen anywhere from -4dB to -11dB with Dolby Digital sources.

I have read that "it is the DD Dialog Normalization Factor and is set by the source signal."

I am bitstreaming from a Panasonic BD-35. Shouldn't the bitstreamed signal be unprocessed by the player? Or is the Offest determined by the source material?

As you quote in your post .... "is set by the source signal", therefore cannot be altered or turned off.
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post #1604 of 5119
12/18/09 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As you quote in your post .... "is set by the source signal", therefore cannot be altered or turned off.

Oh, ok. I incorrectly thought that "source signal" was referring to the signal output by the Blu-Ray player (which may or may not have been modified from the original signal). The source signal is actually the unprocessed signal from the source material.

So for a movie with a -4dB offset displayed, I would need to adjust the volume to +4dB on the receiver to achieve reference-level SPL in my living room? I am not sure what the offset value is in reference to.
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post #1605 of 5119
12/18/09 at 7:34am
Great thread....thanks all!

Anyway, kind of a newbie at this, so be patient.

Our current equipment is very basic compared to most on this forum...HD Dishnetwork, Panny 42G10 Plasma, and the 1610.

Current config:
DishNetwork to 1610 via HDM1 (1).
HDMI cable from 1610 to TV (HDM1 on TV).

All works just fine except the situations where we just want to watch TV and have the sound come through the TV speakers(easier for the kdis). I've tried enabling the HDMI control to On, but cannot get any type of pass-thru when in standby to occur. In fact, I cannot even get video when the receiver is in standby.

Any other ideas to try?

If no other ideas, is the next option the use of a optical digital cable as demonstrated below?
Dishnetwork to TV via HDM1 (1)
Optical digital cable from TV to 1610.

Ff the above is right connection path, what settings do I need to make in the menu configurations to solve my original issue.

Thanks and sorry for the newb questions.
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post #1606 of 5119
12/18/09 at 7:41am
The HDMI direct to TV w/optical to 1610 is an option that many of us choose just to avoid HDMI handshake issues which are quite common with many Sat/Cable boxes. However, to get yours to work in Standby, you'll need to not only make sure HDMI Control is set to ON, but also you must select the Standby Source as HDMI1 (although as it's your only source it should also work in the default of LAST used). Try turning off HDMI-CEC in your TV and see if that solves the problem. If not, try the Reset the Microprocessor procedure (p. 57) to reboot and start over again.
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post #1607 of 5119
12/18/09 at 7:43am
I was trying to find out to do that on the Panny, but not seeing anything. At least, I can't find it in the 42G10 PDF.
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post #1608 of 5119
12/18/09 at 7:49am
I went ahead an renabled HDMI Control to ON. HDMI Standby source = LAST and Poweroffcontrol = ON.

Maybe I don't understand the order to shut things off. With the above config, does this mean I should power off the 1610 with it's remote first, then power off the TV? If that is true, that is where the HDMI Standby source comes into play...correct?

When I use the 1610 remote, the receiver goes into standby and the TV stays with video, but no sound.
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post #1609 of 5119
12/18/09 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolverine 250r View Post

So for a movie with a -4dB offset displayed, I would need to adjust the volume to +4dB on the receiver to achieve reference-level SPL in my living room? I am not sure what the offset value is in reference to.

The offset value is in reference to -31db. So when the offset says -4db the material has a Dialnorm value of -27db (which is typical). Read this article for more info.
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post #1610 of 5119
12/18/09 at 8:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifalcon View Post

I was trying to find out to do that on the Panny, but not seeing anything. At least, I can't find it in the 42G10 PDF.

HDMI-CEC on the Panny is known as Viera Cast.
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post #1611 of 5119
12/18/09 at 9:59am
Is this what I need then for the optical cable?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
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post #1612 of 5119
12/18/09 at 10:17am
Monoprice is an excellent source for your cable needs. Do you really need a 25' cable though? If not, there are smaller length cables available. Also, if you only have a short distance requirement, you can also use a yellow video composite cable as a digital coax cable substitute and connect into the single coax jack on the 1610. Have you not gotten the HDMI Standby to work for both audio and video?
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post #1613 of 5119
12/18/09 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The offset value is in reference to -31db. So when the offset says -4db the material has a Dialnorm value of -27db (which is typical). Read this article for more info.

Excellent! Thank you, that is exactly the type of explaination I was looking for.
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post #1614 of 5119
12/18/09 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Monoprice is an excellent source for your cable needs. Do you really need a 25' cable though? If not, there are smaller length cables available. Also, if you only have a short distance requirement, you can also use a yellow video composite cable as a digital coax cable substitute and connect into the single coax jack on the 1610. Have you not gotten the HDMI Standby to work for both audio and video?

jdsmoothie -
We don't need that much cable...I just happen to look at that one.

So far, I haven't been able to get either video or audio on the TV when the receiver is off.

I set the HDMI control=ON, STANDY BY source = LAST, Poweroffcontrol=ON. I then powered off the TV, which powered off both devices. Then turned on the TV, but no audio or video would come through the TV.

It's probably a silly thing I'm doing.
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post #1615 of 5119
12/18/09 at 1:44pm
You mean you put the Denon in Standby, right? AFAIK, you need to use the Denon remote in order to do that rather than using the TV remote. Also, did you turn off Viera Cast in the Panny as I suggested? The Denon power button should have a red ring around it when it's in Standby.
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post #1616 of 5119
12/18/09 at 6:05pm
Another quick question, whats the difference between Dolby PLII and DTS NEO:6 Cinema?
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post #1617 of 5119
12/18/09 at 7:01pm
They both turn a stereo signal into a 5.1 signal (or 7.1) but they do it differently and they sound different from eachother. I don't know specifically how they're different though. I prefer Neo:6 myself.
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post #1618 of 5119
12/18/09 at 7:02pm
Thread Starter 
Exactly the same as the difference between Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 -- it's just two different companies' versions of the same thing, they both are for scaling up 2-ch sources to 5.1. Both have separate "cinema" and "music" modes.
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post #1619 of 5119
12/18/09 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

You mean you put the Denon in Standby, right? AFAIK, you need to use the Denon remote in order to do that rather than using the TV remote. Also, did you turn off Viera Cast in the Panny as I suggested? The Denon power button should have a red ring around it when it's in Standby.

I set the HDMI control=ON, STANDY BY source = LAST, Poweroffcontrol=ON. I also disabled Vierra Cast.

I turned off the receiver with the receiver remote and the receiver went into standby. I then turned off the tv with the tv remote. Turned on the TV and no sound could be heard, but I did receive video.

One interesting thing and cannot figure what happened. All of a sudden sound came out of the TV speakers for a few short seconds and then went away. I have yet to figure out the pattern I did to make that happen.
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post #1620 of 5119
12/18/09 at 7:57pm
ifalcon
Quote:


One interesting thing and cannot figure what happened. All of a sudden sound came out of the TV speakers for a few short seconds and then went away. I have yet to figure out the pattern I did to make that happen.

IMO it sound like a handshake problem. Have you try another HDMI input (like SAT/CBL) just for the heck of it.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1610/590 owner's thread