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*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1610/590 owner's thread - Page 12

post #331 of 5195
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I'm new with setting up receivers so pardon my ignorance. I'm setting up my 1610 with the speakers that I have. I have 2 front, 2 sorround, 1 center and 1 subwoofer. Why is there another set of front speakers terminals in the receiver? Also why is the subwoofer terminal an rca cable terminal? How can I connect the two wires of my sub to the receiver? Thanks in advance!
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If you read the Manual, I think Page 10, the extra terminals can be connected through a Power Amp. to Back Surrounds and/or Front Height Speakers. It gives an option you can add later.
post #332 of 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkyq View Post

If you read the Manual, I think Page 10, the extra terminals can be connected through a Power Amp. to Back Surrounds and/or Front Height Speakers. It gives an option you can add later.

which q were you addressing? (i have not purchased either unit yet)
post #333 of 5195
Sorry I used the wrong quote.
post #334 of 5195
I have been following this forum for some time now and I have read a lot of good advice. But it seems like it my time to post a message.

I just put together a home theatre system but I am having some problems. Here is what I have: Samsung LN46B650, Denon 1610, Energy Take Classic and Energy ESW-V8 Subwoofer. Connect to Comcast Motorola DCH-3416 via HDMI cables.

I posted my Problem on the Denon Online support and I am not sure about their answer. I was hoping that someone on this forum could give me some better advice

Robert

My Question to Denon: I just purchased and avr-1610. It is connected to Samsung ln46b650 via HDMI 1.3b cable. The input cable box is a Motorola DCH3416 connected via HDMI 1.3b cable. The input cable box is physically connected to HDMI3 on the back of the receiver and I have assigned cbl/sat = HDMI3, HDMI control = ON, HDMI audio out = Amp, standby = hdmi3, poweroff control = off. (also tried poweroff control = yes). Everything works fine when avr is ON, when AVR is put in standby only the video is displayed, NO SOUND.
Also, the receiver audio in not in sync with the TV.
Receiver setting- lip sync = ON
The audio seems to be ahead of the video.

DENON's Response: Good Afternoon Robert,
There is no real feature on the receiver that allows the video and audio to pass through when the receiver is on standby. Usually it will work when you have the HDMI control feature on the receiver is turned on, but it is not designed for this function.

The video is slower than audio and so you can experience lip-sync issues. I recommend adjusting the audio delay as described on page 43 of the manual. (The auto lip-sync is a specification of HDMI 1.3 and 1.3a so the source must also be this version of HDMI, which cable boxes are not).
post #335 of 5195
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by westgstreet View Post

Also why is the subwoofer terminal an rca cable terminal? How can I connect the two wires of my sub to the receiver? Thanks in advance!

Unfortunately, modern AVR's are NOT designed to work with HTIB subs that use speaker wire connections. Time for a new sub!

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I have seen some adapters in various places on the web, even radio shack, but am wondering if there's a better way as well.

the "better way" is a new sub!


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Why is there another set of front speakers terminals in the receiver?

that's for A/B speaker switching, for example if you have a separate pair of speakers you like better for music vs HT.
post #336 of 5195
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Pepper View Post

Watching a blu ray disc last night "The sum of all Fears" movie, at -20 I was unable to hear the dialog and even the special effects were quiet. At -10 It was improved to the point i could hear what they were saying but by no means was loud. I also have my Motorola DCH 6416 hooked thru it and its the same. All connections are HDMI

All I can say is, that is pretty odd. "-10" on the volume dial should be absolutely blasting with a movie. "-20" should be pretty darn loud.

Perhaps consider resetting the microprocessor and re-running Audyssey.
post #337 of 5195
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkyq View Post

Just ran a Audyssey on my 590 with the following results:

Front L & R Speakers: Large
Centre, Surround (L & R): Small

Crossover:

Front: Large Band
Centre: 150 Hz
Surround: 80 Hz
LFE: 200HZ.

What is Large Band?

"Large" vs "Small" is the setting for whether the receiver peforms "bass management" on your speakers. If a speaker is set to "large" then there is no crossover and it gets a full range signal -- that is why it is showing up as such in the crossover menu.

If a speaker is set to small, the receiver will start rolling off the bass at the designated crossover frequency.

Even though those 802's are big speakers, I would still reset them to "small" even if you are setting a very low crossover like 40 or 60Hz. The subwoofer will be better with the lowest of the low frequencies, and it will free up a little headroom in the amp. For HT there really is no such thing as a "large" speaker, it's an old convention that should be done away with Here is what the founder of Audyssey has to say, it's a good read: http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/

BTW - on a side note, the "LPF for LFE" setting in the "Bass Setting" menu is not set by Audyssey. You should set that to 120Hz manually, which is the correct setting.


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I have a mishmash of Speakers.
The Fronts are B & W 802, Series 2 (just purchased from next door neighbour for $200).
The Rear are Sonance M30 ( built in came with the house).
The Centre and Subwoofer are cheap Yamaha's. I know I should match the Centre Speaker but I can't afford a B & W.

Nice mishmash Although you should REALLY consider upgrading the center, even if you can't find a matching B&W. The center channel is very important for HT and it's definitely the weak link in the system.
post #338 of 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Unfortunately, modern AVR's are NOT designed to work with HTIB subs that use speaker wire connections. Time for a new sub!



the "better way" is a new sub!

i will not allow anybody other than microsoft tell me i need to buy better stuff as a result of buying their stuff.
post #339 of 5195
Quote:
haberskir

DENON's Response: Good Afternoon Robert,
There is no real feature on the receiver that allows the video and audio to pass through when the receiver is on standby. Usually it will work when you have the HDMI control feature on the receiver is turned on, but it is not designed for this function.

i thought the new yamahas (i have one and it does) denons and onkyos can all pass video and audio while in standby?
post #340 of 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

You're thinking of HDMI CEC which allows a single remote to control multiple HDMI components. HDMI Control is a feature on the AVR and allows it to be in STANDBY while still letting an HDMI signal pass through it.

My HDMI control is set correctly and lets video pass through but no audio. Neither will the TV audio work. All this while in standby.
I altered the settings for "TV Audio" but no luck.
post #341 of 5195
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bc3tech View Post

i will not allow anybody other than microsoft tell me i need to buy better stuff as a result of buying their stuff.

well, first off I am not a Denon rep if that's what you are implying.

second, it's not a "denon" thing or any brand -- the fact of the matter is that ALL modern AVR's are designed to work with a mono RCA connection to an active (powered) subwoofer with an RCA input.

the ones you should be angry at are the HTIB manufacturers, who design their speaker/sub setups with PROPRIETARY connections that make them incompatible with standard AV equipment. The blame lies with the HTIB design for not adhering to a common standard.
post #342 of 5195
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by killahb36 View Post

i thought the new yamahas (i have one and it does) denons and onkyos can all pass video and audio while in standby?

well, according to the response haberskir got from Denon, this "feature" is not an officially supported one and Denon considers it to be a "side effect" of the HDMI-Control/CEC functionality.

This is, frankly, a BIZARRE thing to say considering they have a specific option in the menu for "Standby Source" in the HDMI Setup menu!

The bottom line is HDMI is a flaky technology and this kind of crap is very common. I would suggest, if you really want to utilize the TV speakers sometimes without the AVR being on, to just connect the cable box direct to the TV with an HDMI cable and then run a digital audio cable to the Denon for when you want surround sound. This is a much more reliable method if the standby pass-through feature isn't working out for you.
post #343 of 5195
Quote:


well, according to the response haberskir got from Denon, this "feature" is not an officially supported one and Denon considers it to be a "side effect" of the HDMI-Control/CEC functionality.

This is, frankly, a BIZARRE thing to say considering they have a specific option in the menu for "Standby Source" in the HDMI Setup menu!

I completely agree, that is why I asked the question in this forum. We all know from asking any Product support organization a question there are level 1 tech's, lever 2 tech's and level 3 tech's, some know more than others. I will post a reply on Denon's site asking them your "Standby Source" comment.

Thanks
post #344 of 5195
I just connected a Component cable. There's really no difference in video quality, IMO, between Component and HDMI, at least for my HD PVR and its less flaky (more efficient). I would rather not have the Receiver on SB, uses less power.
post #345 of 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Pepper View Post

Watching a blu ray disc last night "The sum of all Fears" movie, at -20 I was unable to hear the dialog and even the special effects were quiet. At -10 It was improved to the point i could hear what they were saying but by no means was loud. I also have my Motorola DCH 6416 hooked thru it and its the same. All connections are HDMI

Hit the STD button... I have the same problem when my receiver defaults to Stereo... like the entire midrange dissapears and I can only hear quiet bass and really high treble... I hit the surround or STD button on the remote (near bottom left) and the sound comes back just fine!
post #346 of 5195
I bought a speaker cable with rca plug but audyssey cannot detect my subwoofer. Do you think my subwoofer is too old for the receiver?
post #347 of 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by westgstreet View Post

I bought a speaker cable with rca plug but audyssey cannot detect my subwoofer. Do you think my subwoofer is too old for the receiver?

Yah that won't work. Your just going to need to buy a new subwoofer that has a Low-Level Input (RCA Connection).
post #348 of 5195
Has anybody watched AKIRA on BD with the 5.1 TrueHD 192khz/24bit Japanese track? Whenever I choose that audio option, Audyssey disables itself and hitting the MultEQ button displays "Not Available". With all other audio tracks, Audyssey work fine.

I put in Dark Knight and Audyssey stays enabled with the TrueHD track. Does that mean this receiver doesn't recognize the 192khz audio? I'm really stumped.

Ps: I'm using the Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers with the 590 and a Sony S350 BD Player.
post #349 of 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by westgstreet View Post

I bought a speaker cable with rca plug but audyssey cannot detect my subwoofer. Do you think my subwoofer is too old for the receiver?

oh wow these things have to detect your sub to propertly set things up? and that'd require me spending another $100+ for a sub. a/v receiver just got tossed as a possible upgrade.
post #350 of 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by bc3tech View Post

oh wow these things have to detect your sub to propertly set things up? and that'd require me spending another $100+ for a sub. a/v receiver just got tossed as a possible upgrade.

No, you do not have to have a sub in your system. When you run the automatic setup, it will know that a sub is not there and configure things properly with just the speakers you have.
post #351 of 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Spaulding View Post

No, you do not have to have a sub in your system. When you run the automatic setup, it will know that a sub is not there and configure things properly with just the speakers you have.

kinda kills an action scene though, no?
post #352 of 5195
I assume the AVR-590 decodes Audio over HDMI and doesn't just pass it through to the TV? I'm thinking of getting this to replace an Onkyo TX-SR504 Receiver.

It would be great to finally have everything routed through my Receiver, not to mention getting rid of all the Optical Cables.
post #353 of 5195
Quote:


well, according to the response haberskir got from Denon, this "feature" is not an officially supported one and Denon considers it to be a "side effect" of the HDMI-Control/CEC functionality.

This is, frankly, a BIZARRE thing to say considering they have a specific option in the menu for "Standby Source" in the HDMI Setup menu!

Well you are going to love this. I posted this question on DENON's Online support:

"What does the specific option in the menu for "Standby Source" in the HDMI Setup menu do? The manual says "There is no real feature on the receiver that allows the video and audio to pass through when the receiver is on standby. Usually it will work when you have the HDMI control feature on the receiver is turned on, but it is not designed for this function". I assumed the input signal was both video and audio."

DENON's response: "The AVR-1610 has "HDMI Control" when it is set to "ON" the audio/video from the last source will pass thru."

BTW, this response was from a different tech. Sooooo I am not sure what DENONS position is on this topic. I can only assume I am just having one of those flaky HDMI issues.
post #354 of 5195
Even my 790 only allows Video to pass through but no audio.
post #355 of 5195
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zero383 View Post

Has anybody watched AKIRA on BD with the 5.1 TrueHD 192khz/24bit Japanese track? Whenever I choose that audio option, Audyssey disables itself and hitting the MultEQ button displays "Not Available". With all other audio tracks, Audyssey work fine.

I put in Dark Knight and Audyssey stays enabled with the TrueHD track. Does that mean this receiver doesn't recognize the 192khz audio? I'm really stumped.

Ps: I'm using the Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers with the 590 and a Sony S350 BD Player.

I believe that there just isn't enough DSP power to decode a 192/24 multichannel lossless track and also apply Audyssey processing. There is so little multichannel available material at 192/24 that I guess noone ever noticed before

Be happy it's a Denon though, on some receivers (e.g. Marantz) they can't apply Audyssey when decoding ANY hi-rez audio!!
post #356 of 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I believe that there just isn't enough DSP power to decode a 192/24 multichannel lossless track and also apply Audyssey processing. There is so little multichannel available material at 192/24 that I guess noone ever noticed before

Be happy it's a Denon though, on some receivers (e.g. Marantz) they can't apply Audyssey when decoding ANY hi-rez audio!!

Awww that's not good! That means the 192/24 audio track sounds worse than the 48khz English dub track Right now, with Audyssey disabled, there's much less bass. I guess I can increase the sub level a bit just for this movie. Dark Knight with TrueHD + Audyssey sounds great though! I'm pretty happy with the 590 in general
post #357 of 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

All I can say is, that is pretty odd. "-10" on the volume dial should be absolutely blasting with a movie. "-20" should be pretty darn loud.

Perhaps consider resetting the microprocessor and re-running Audyssey.

I went ahead and bought the 590, even though nobody responded to my post post comparing it to my Sony, and I am impressed that a low priced receiver can sound so much better than my higher priced(at the time) Sony.

Anyway back to Dr Pepper's problem. I was noticing, when messing with the menu, there is an input signal strength and the default is at zero. Go into the receiver's menue for the source that is being inputted and check the level. I believe the strength can be raised or lowered by 12db. YOu might want to check to see if it has been changed from the default of 0. You can increase the level and see if it helps the problem. BTW, I have the level increased +5 for my cable box, since the volume from my cable provider has always been weak.
Also, what color is the light under the Audyssey marking on the front of the receiver? WHen mine is red, the sound is perfect. When the light is green it cuts the sound considerably.


Gary
post #358 of 5195
Quote:
Originally Posted by insync44 View Post

Even my 790 only allows Video to pass through but no audio.

Has anyone been able to pass video and audio through while in standby with the 590/1610? Again I really wanted it to be able to do this (I have not purchased it yet) since I will be connecting everything by hdmi and don't want to have to have the receiver on all the time (it will be hooked up to the main tv in my house). Thx all for any responses
post #359 of 5195
It worked when I first hooked everything up, but then it got "confused" and started sending audio through the TV even when the receiver was on with the audio option set to Amp. So I set HDMI control to Off and am very happy listening through the receiver all the time.
post #360 of 5195
I read that changing settings such as the channel levels will not interfere with the multiEQ or DynEQ functions, is this true? Whenever I make a change like that, on the display, the border around the audyssey/eq info disappears. Is this just to announce that you have changed a setting from the auto configuration?

Thanks
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