Denon AVR-4310CI Thread - Page 65

This probably belongs in the Harmony One thread, but since it's specific to my Denon 4310, I am posting it here. I'll post a reference link in the H-1 thread, however.

Some folks in our house enjoy listening to the available internet radio stations. While not (even the 128K flavors) the best sound quality, many stations provide a wide range of music, that is not found in conventional "radio". As with anything, you have to weed through the junk, to find the jewels - but, they are out there.

For the "technology challenged" members, who just want to play music without having to navigate the myriad menus and options - I invested a little time to program the Harmony One remote to make this simple, fast and effective. Also, if you're like me and have a premium display, you really do not want to leave it on al the time, even with the screen saver/blanking feature enabled, while just listening to music. And, while controlling with the web interface is cool and nice, the wife is not going to do that. I have to admit too, that I really don't want her in there, possibly clicking on something erroneously

So, I created a "Listen to Internet Radio" activity on the H-1. This activity leaves all other equipment off and just uses the 4310. There were a few caveats to this process, however, that I'll share here.

First, you should pre-configure everything using the web interface first. There are multiple "memories" to store more than enough stations and the whole principle of this process centers around that. Call up the web interface, go into the NET/USB screen.. pick Internet Radio and go find your stations. When you find ones that you like, store them in memory locations A1 through G9. You'll see why later.

Also, you'll want to preselect the default listening mode for that input (I use stereo), along with other options such as: Restorer value, DynamicEQ/Vol, Audyssey reference offset (I use -10dB). More on this later, but keep in mind that if you like to change these values on the fly, make a note to add them to list of items that you include in the "Customize Buttons" section of the activity configuration.

I'm not going into detail on how to set these options. I'll assume that you are familiar with the general operation of the 4310 sufficiently, to do this on your own.

Unless you have been able to have Harmony transfer batpigs H-1 settings to your profile (or just don't want to go through the effort, like me) - you will have to learn a few buttons from the original Denon LCD remote. This is not difficult, but there are a few caveats to that, too. You will also need to program a few sequences - one for each station that you want to directly access. I'm going to describe that process now.

Launch the Harmony Remote Software GUI on your computer.

Choose the DEVICES tab and select the 4310 button "Learn IR".

You're going to "learn" commands for the A-G buttons and the accompanying numbers, 1-9. Note: the numbers are not the standard number 1-9 buttons. They will NOT work for this process. Apparently, the number buttons are dual-purpose and send a different IR code when selecting NET/USB presets. You'll have to be careful to learn the correct feature for the numbers.

To learn these commands, take the LCD remote and press the soft button "NET/USB. This puts the LCD remote into the proper operation state.

Make sure your H-1 is connected to your computer now.

At the bottom of the "Learn IR" screen, type in the name you want to call the command that you are about to learn. In this example, I will explain how to learn the "A" command. I call that command..... A.

Press the "Learn New Command" button in the Harmony GUI, below where you typed the command name.

Follow the instructions on the next screen to complete the learning of that command. Basically, you just press the "A" button on the Denon remote, while pointing it at the H-1. You will receive a confirmation if this completes successfully.

Repeat this process for the B-G buttons.

As I said before, the numbers that are in the Denon Harmony database are just "numbers". The default values that are already in the database command list WILL NOT work for this process. You will have to learn the alternate IR code. This is not daunting at all. You just have to repeat the learning process that you did with A-G.

Your Denon remote is already in the proper state to correctly transfer the numbers in the required form.

Go back to the Learn IR screen, if you are not already there. Choose a name for these new commands. Since I am using them just for the NET/USB presets, I name them "NetUSB1, NetUSB2, NETUSB3, etc. Do NOT name them 1, 2, 3, etc. That could confuse you (or the software) with the regular number functions.

DO NOT PRESS ANY OTHER BUTTONS ON THE DENON REMOTE DURING THIS PROCESS. YOU DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE OUT OF THE NET/USB MODE THAT THE DENON REMOTE IS ALREADY IN.

Learn the number commands, one at a time, just like you did with A-G.

The numbers on the Denon remote are the hard buttons, below the Channel +/- and VOL +/- buttons. The #1 button is also labeled "DVD", #2 is labeled "TV", etc.

You have now learned all the commands that you will need to select the stations that you have stored in memory locations A1 through G9


Now it's time create the new activity for turning on your 4310 and selecting the Internet Radio function. Select the ACTIVITIES tab on the Harmony GUI, then choose "New Activity". Name it whatever you want.

When asked "what input or channel does your Denon need to be on?" - choose: NET/USB.

Answer appropriately the questions for all the other gear. Most (if not all) will be left "off". I do include my lighting controller in this activity, so the lights can be adjusted, if desired, while in this activity.

Now, move on to customizing buttons. In the new activity you just created, choose "Customize Buttons".

At the bottom of that page, you'll see a button called "Add Sequence". Click it. Here is where you create the command sequence to call up the memory presets. This is a two-button command, so in order to make that happen with just one press of the H-1 - you have to create a sequence for each channel.

I'll describe how to create the sequence for calling up memory A1. Duplicate this for all your presets:

Name the Sequence... obvious- A1.

In the first box under "Device" select your 4310.
In the box to the right of that, named "Command" select A (the A command you learned from the original remote.

In the 2nd box under "Device" again select your 4310.
In the "Command" box to the right of that, select NetUSB1 (or whatever you named that command. DO NOT PICK THE DEFAULT NUMBER BUTTONS - use the ones that you learned!

Continue in the fashion until you have created a sequence for all the memory locations that you are using.

When finished - click DONE and go back to the Customize Buttons screen.

Select the "ADDITIONAL BUTTONS" tab.

Here's where you plug in the sequences that will show up on the LCD display of the H-1 remote, for changing to/from the different stations that you stored in the memory locations A1 through G9.

This is also where you might want to include the other functions that were mentioned at the beginning of this post for STEREO, RESTORER, DYNAMIC/EQ, etc. They are all just standard commands, that you can pick and insert wherever you'd like on these screens. I put them on the last page, to avoid accidental presses, that could change them - leaving the first few pages for the station/memory presets.

I'll show you an example for how to set the first location to store memory location A1. You can duplicate appropriately for the rest.

In the box under "label", create a name for the station stored in A1. For me, it's MusicPlus.

In the box under "Device", select "sequence".

In the box under "Command", select the name of the sequence, corresponding to the memory location you want to access... i this case "A1".

That's it. Just double check your work to ensure that you have no typo's or mistakes and you'll be good to go

Update your remote with this new activity and try it out.

I hope you find this useful, helpful and easy.

I purchased the 4310ci from a non-authorized dealer but it arrived in perfect condition (for those considering a non-authorized vendor). One problem though, the receiver is not changing the aspect ratio correctly on 4:3 HD content to 16:9. This is one of the main reasons for purchasing this unit to prevent burn-in. Denon aspect ratio is set to full. Anybody had this problem?

that is correct function, the "aspect" control only affects 4:3 SD signals. It has no ability to stretch HD signals, you need to use either the TV or the cable box to stretch the image on those channels.

The thing to understand is that there is no such thing as a 4:3 HD signal. If a channel is broadcasting a 4:3 image on their HD channel, the side black bars are actually inserted as part of the 16:9 image. The AVR (or TV) has no way to automatically recognize that it is actually a 4:3 image, as far as they are concerned it is a 16:9 HD signal. So you have to manually use the TV/cable box to stretch the image if you so chose.

How many 4:3 HD signals do you get? Generally it's only local news or old shows where they broadcast an SD feed within an HD channel. I don't think you should really fear any "burn in"....

Mostly the kids staying on Nick too much watching HD 4:3 content. The Direct TV receiver doesn't have an option to only stretch the 4:3 content. I just have to keep reminding them to switch the aspect on the Samsung manually. CBS seems to want to push 4:3 content quite a bit too. I'll quit pulling my hair out (whats left) as I thought I was missing a config somewhere.

btw: Thanks for your web site..some good stuff there..still tring to get some HD audio with this receiver...I'm new to the AVR world and jumped in with a higher end receiver...

I was a bit uncomfortable with your comments above because...to be honest...to a small degree, I felt the same way when I demo'd the SC-27 against the 4310. I just felt a bit more comfortable with the 4310, although I liked the SC-27 as well and the price was right!

Well, I demo'd them both again, this time in a different store, again on Pure Direct, and this time with some of my favorite recordings.

OMG! You were exactly right, the Pio is harsher than the Denon and was a bit difficult to listen to for extended periods. Just wasn't as enjoyable as the Denon, which has a warmer and fuller sound. So thanks for the comments...you made me acknowledge a shortcoming of the Pio I was apparantly subconsciously trying to overlook due to an outstanding price I was able to get it for.

So I will be trying to cancel the Pio order tomorrow and hopefully will be able to get the 4310 (hopefullt one without a networking issue).

Just got my 4310, connected most of my sources and have some problems I hope someone can help with. Read most of this forum but the solutions escape me.
In my setup I got:
directv hd receiver connected hdmi to 4310, sony bravia40V2500 tv (1080p) hdmi connection, old sony crt tv connected with a/v cable, dvd player a/v cable, vcr a/v cable.

My problems/questions:
1. with directv as input I can get video on v2500 fine, no audio comes over hdmi (set to TV). If I turn HDMI control off audio comes ok. Unfortunately with hdmi control off when 4310 is turned off there is no pass through from directv .
Is there any way I can have both the audio via hdmi and pass through with receiver off?
2. My second tv (that old one, connected to analog monitor out ) doesn't show anything with directv as input, no gui either. On other inputs like vcr I get picture and gui. What am I doing wrong?
3. what should I use for the resolution on directv receiver out? 720p or 1080i? to have 4310 convert to 1080p for my tv?

Thank you.

1. Not with your current configuration. As HDMI Control must be set to OFF when HDMI Audio Out is set to TV, you have a couple options:

(a) Using either the 4310 remote or a Harmony remote you could program either to change the HDMI Control setting back to ON prior to the AVR going to Standby.

(b) Bypass the AVR and go DirecTV ---> HDMI ---> TV as well as DirecTV --> Optical ---> AVR for surround audio. Then you need only turn on the AVR when surround sound is desired.

2. Nothing. There is no HDMI audio/video downconversion. Connect an A/V cable from the DirecTV to the AVR as well as the HDMI.

3. Set it to native ON and let the signal be passed through to the AVR to determine whether the AVR does a better job of upscaling then the DirecTV box, otherwise you can set it to 1080i and just let the AVR take it to 1080p if you see no difference (although you may see faster channel changes if you let the DirecTV box do the upscaling to 1080i first).

How do I playback J-PEG's over the 4310 in correct aspect ratio ?

I have after a few hairy days managed to get my Denon 4310's network abilities up and running. It is playing Internet Radio fine and I have got it capable of streaming J-PEG's off of my PC and 'wired' Home Network.

However, all the J-PEG's are being shown at 576i and they look fat and out of proportion. I have gone into the Denon 4310 menu's and selected the USB/NET input and changed the Video Scaler to "ON", the "I/P Scaler" to "ON", the "RESOLUTION" to "1080p" and the "ASPECT" to "NORMAL". They are now playing fine and look MUCH better.

However, will this setting mess up the video settings in the other menus and for the other inputs (i.e. the Denon BD player, and Toshiba XE1 HDDVD player etc etc) ?

Sorry, a complete NOOB to all this. Also how do I get the 4310 to playback video files in REAL PLAYER or YOU TUBE downloads ?

Thanks again guy! :thumbsup:

Wow!!!! What did you do to get your network working? Was it truly just a DHCP issue?

The settings are saved "per source", so you can have different ones for each source.

I don't use the 4310 for pictures/video's... I'll leave that for an expert on the subject

To be honest... I have no idea. I figured that the FIRMWARE UPDATE had broke my 4310 so I just turned EVERYTHING off and disconnected the CAT6a cables. Connected everything back up and turned it all on again. I didn't do the Factory Reset or the other Microprocessor Reset thing though.

Anyway, voila.... Internet Radio is working a treat, Media Server now working a treat with pictures and music (can't get the video to work though), and all my settings... like Input Labels, Audessey, Manual Settings etc are all saved as they were originally. Phew!

A lucky escape I guess.

Better be lucky than good...

Five weeks after dropping my 4310 off at an authorized service center, they have concluded that Denon is not supplying replacement network cards in a reasonable time-frame and have started the paperwork to replace the entire unit.

This raises these questions - since replacements to their own service centers are not readily available (keeping in mind that this same "network card" may be used in several models, not just the 4310, as well as the manufacture of this particular component is most likely outsourced):
a) Are there that many returned units requiring new network cards that very few replacement cards are available?
b) Does Denon not have a resolution for the issue so has placed a hold on network cards available for service? (Manufacturing definitely knows about this, regardless of customer care's position..)
c) Are new Denon receivers flying off the shelves so quickly that manufacturing isn't able to meet demand for both new units and service parts?

Three reasons why I bother to mention this:
1) I've been waiting for five weeks without an AVR so I've had time to think about trivial stuff like this while listening to the tinny TV speakers.
2) Now I'm wondering if my replacement will be susceptible to the same issue.
3) In my original post about sending it in I promised a post-mortum as I got it from the service center tech. Now the problem is being placed in a box and being shipped to NJ never to return.

To the more geeky minds in the thread - the term "network card" doesn't appear to be synonymous with NIC as it appears to also have high-level functionality that starts to experience issue since the lower-level TCP/IP functions including DHCP client are still functional. The HTTP server on port 80 quit responding on my unit before I sent it back (ICMP port unreachable received instead of a TCP ACK), making it sound like the HTTP server also resides on the card itself rather thanany of this traffic ever reaching the backplane - except for actual control/config primitives. I imagine the network streaming functionality also lives on the card itself. All functionality worked fine for several weeks after the last firmware upgrade, so firmware itself doesn't seem to be an issue rather than something on the card horking.

Hi guys... so am I right in thinking that if I turn on the "I/P Scaler" in the NET/USB input it will have NO effect whatsoever on the other inputs quality ?

Also, if I am passing a VIDEO signal through (from my Denon A1UD) should I have the "Video Convert" set to ON or OFF or doesn't it matter with HDMI ?

Thanks guys! :thumbsup:

The i/p Scaler setting is input specific so it shouldn't effect your other inputs. The Video convert setting affects component ---> HDMI conversion so should have no effect using HDMI inputs.

Don't you need I/P convert to be ON, if you want to overlay the GUI and Volume over an HDMI input signal? I thought without that on, you'd still get the GUI, but it would replace the HDMI signal and that there would be no volume overlay either.

Correct, the Video Convert setting must be ON for the GUI overlay.

And to completely clarify, if you have the video convert set to ON for an HDMI input signal (so that you can get the GUI and Volume overlays), but you have the scaler OFF - the HDMI signal is passed through unaltered - except, of course, during the time the GUI/Vol is mixed.

correct -- the "Video Convert" setting must be ON to enable gui/status overlay graphics. but this is a separate setting from the i/p scaler, the scaling functions are independent of the basic video stuff. So to enable "passthrough" of unaltered HDMI video but with the gui/graphics overlaid, set i/p scaler off but leave video convert on.

Thank you for clarifying my questions and your help, appreciate it.

I have to bring this up before escalating to Denon tech. But has anyone tried to playback DVD Audio/SACD from Oppo(HDMI) to Denon 4310 to a DVI Tv with the latest fw. Here is what happens: when tv is on, 2 channel is only played at 48kHz. When tv is disabled I get my glorifed 5 channel 96kHz sound. This never happened with my Denon 2807 with my Oppo. I rechecked my Oppo output and also tried to check my Denon but I cannot for the life of me find the root cause unless, it's the old DVI problem again in a different form.

that sounds like the winner -- the fact that when you turn off the TV things revert to normalcy definitely supports this.

Check with us over at Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread

I'm sure that someone may have experience with HDMI/DVI and all the wonderful problems that causes. If not, you should contact Oppo directly, before contacting Denon. Oppo is MUCH more responsive and may already be aware of this issue.

Yes, unfortunately it is not Oppo's problem since it works perfectly with Denon AVR 2807. I am now having second thoughts about the 4310, it's ironic we have HDMI certification, Simplay testing and as long as there is ACP/HDCP support, this should not be an issue.

yeah, well, give a big hearty "thanks" and a one-finger salute to DRM thanks HDMI HDCP! we all really appreciate this broken industry standard you have foisted upon us! Never mind the typical consumer, you will beat those pirates soon!

Talked to Denon rep, what a joke! Do they even log these issues? So to cut a long story short, I think the audio channels may still be sent to the Tv via the data islands along with the infoframes. Being a DVI Rx, it does not/cannot decode it. One way to check this is to bring it to compliance center and check for HDCP test 1A-09, the Panasonic UITA 2000 would reveal HDMI data islands in this DVI HDCP test.
Once the Tv is turned off , Denon cannot pass through the audio channel to any sink device and decodes it internally thus getting a 5.1 channel. Just my theory, but I am certain it's fixable via fw.

Then can't you just tell the 4310, for that HDMI input, use the AMP and not pass through audio?

Yes, I did the AMP assign for all input sources so that it does not pass audio to Monitor 1 or 2. Resolution from DVD player is set to 1080i so that I have enough bandwidth on the pixel clock to carry the audio during blanking period.
HDMI control is off. Would my debugging time be worth it to check the decoded HDMI signals is i2s and DE on the Rx via an external repeater board? Don't think so. However I can try using another later model DVD player that supports DVD-A and SACD.
Rants aside I do like(not overtly bowled over) the sound as compared to my 2807 and emo amps. dyn EQ is probably the best feature. DSX or PLIIz maybe for movies for my audio, it really adds no impact.

Odd, I retired my 2807 after getting the 4310 and found the 4310's sound to be significantly better (regardless of DynEQ on/off) to the 2807's all the way around (I posted a review in this thread somewhere ). Perhaps your EMO is the wild-card. If you like the sound, keep using it.

Then again, you could always upgrade your display - that would solve the HDMI/DVI problem

There are still a few Kuro's left

Don't want to upgrade one for another, its a never ending addiction. I have my DVI monitor for output 1, my Epson 1080p projector is monitor 2, so I am pretty set. I only use Epson at night so I'll try it tonite.
I have to say, adding the EMO definitely helped open up the sound stage to drive my RF-82s even though they were very efficient speakers. UPA-2s did a very good job. Without the UPA-2, yes I would definitely say that a huge improvement has taken place.
All 9.1 speakers are wonderfully connected with non-snake oil connectors and cables.

I understand upgraditus very well

If you have a Harmony (or other prgrammable remote), you could always set that up so you do not need a display to navigate. The only time I use my display is for watching TV and/or Blu-ray. All other functions (Vinyl, CD, DVDD-A/SACD, streaming audio, internet radio, etc.) can be controlled via my harmony, without the need for a display. You really do not need a display, if you can manipulate the right commands with your remote. It takes some time to set up, but it's well worth it.

Scroll up several posts and see what I did for internet radio, as an example.

Thanks I have a Harmony as well. Your posts are of the outmost help. Some Porcupine Tree DVD-A recordings have nested menus that need to be accessed for bonus tracks and video. SACDs are a non-issue. I noticed that the Denon not only puts the incoming stream to 2 channel but downsamples it to 48kHz from 96kHz when connected to the DVI monitor.
I am going to figure out a couple of ways to see what causes this to happen without lugging in an oscilloscope ; ) and to find a workaround before throwing in the towel. Sadly I think I am sure to run across more issues in the future.
BTW how often does Denon update the fw?