Denon AVR-4310CI Thread - Page 115

I bought mine from Crutchfield about two weeks ago. Everything I have bought from them has promptly arrived well-packaged and in good shape, including an open-box Denon 3910 that was several hundred dollars less than an unopened one. It's always worth checking their outlet store.

I have zero complaints about my buying experiences with them. Amazon has been a crapshoot.

Thanks Bob, I didn't download to see that wasn't the full manual.

BTW - there's a *slightly* more comprehensive manual on Crutchfield (138pgs vs 122pgs). ** Warning: 56MB vs Bob's 17MB **
http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchf...033AV4310C.PDF

Keep in mind this is a "sub" setting and simply sends the front mains low end to the sub only when main speakers are set to LARGE.

Have you reset the microprocessor (p. 111) yet? Did AUTO SETUP set them to LARGE or SMALL originally? Recommendation is to set them all to SMALL with a minimum of 60hz or 80hz crossover.

But also keeps the bass to the mains doesn't it? I know you and I conversed in the 789/1909 thread about this a long time ago, but I thought that was the jist of it?

No ... it simply "adds" the lower level bass to the sub which is why the LFE+Main setting is known as the "double bass" setting as the sub is getting bass from the LFE channel as well as the lower level bass below the front mains crossover setting.

The LFE+Main setting is called the "double bass" setting because the sub is playing all of the bass from all of the channels and the 5 non-sub speakers are also playing all of the bass. In other words, the bass is called "doubled" because it's coming from the subs and everywhere else as well.

If you don't believe me, read these guys (the second post is from an exec at SVS--a fine sub manufacturer).

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=48231

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...8&postcount=10

You also get doubled bass if you have a system with a sub and put a Denon receiver in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT without switching off the sub.

Not really the point of my post .. but thanks for the input.

That is essentially confirming what JD already said although you are incorrect in that it will not necessarily apply to all 5 main speakers; it is only relevant for speakers set to 'large'.

The point he was clarifying is that it doesn't change what is sent to the speakers -- they play what they are set to play. It ONLY affects what is sent to the subwoofer.

Thanks batpig and jd for clarifying. And thanks to Batpig for the really helpful denon setup info on his website--undoubtedly saved me hours!

Thanks guys for chiming in but what is my next move?

If I "tell" the system I have a sub I get no bass from the front three speakers. I test this by running the scene from Flight of the Phoenix where the plane is spiraling and there is a long loud bass noise. With the sub set to no I get amazing bass from the main speakers. If I set it to on and turn the sub off the bass is gone. It sounds like it is crossed over at 80hz. My mains go into the high 30 hz.

I have tried every configuration I think. Audyssey set the mains to large.

Any help is appreciated.

Although it doesn't solve your particular issue as to "why" the mains aren't playing a full range signal, the front L/C/R speakers should actually be reset to SMALL with a 60hz or 80hz crossover minimum. Have you tried resetting the microprocessor (p. 111)?

I have not tried resetting the processor yet. That means quite a long process of reconfiguring and running Audyssey, correct? We are talking a couple hours I believe.

From memory what you are saying is incorrect( I am at work and can not check it) . To be able to define a separate cross over point for the mains and surrounds the mains and center need to be set to large. Then you can go into advanced crossover and select what you want. Otherwise you are selecting a global crossover.

My goal is to set the cross over of the mains and center to 60hz and test, then 40hz and test. BUT I want to be sure I that what I believe I set it at is in fact happening which at this point I do not believe is true.

Here is a photo of my mains and center. With 12 - 7" drivers for the front three speakers and a dedicated 200 watt per channel amp. I think I want to take advantage of what I have. If I test it out and it sounds better at 80 I will go that way but I want to give all options a shot.

I think you are correct in that statement from what I have been told
They have "zones" and they typically will have the same clearance price in the zone
Anything further from that clearance price ...from what I understand...is at the discretion of the individual store

If management at a particular store wants to "blow" something out..they have that discretion

I live in Ohio and stores(MHT) stores in the Cincy and Columbus area are in a different zone than Cleveland and I have noticed price differences occasionally

I am about to take a receipt in and try to get a price match for an item bought within 30 days that was an open box and bought in a different state

I wonder what they are going to say?

Warren

Nice setup!


Running AUTO SETUP should't take more than 15-20 minutes and you can save your personal settings via the web control feature (pp. 84-85).


In fact you can also set individual crossovers when the speakers are set to SMALL which is what they should be set to when using a dedicated sub.

Thanks I will check into that tonight.

I have to run a lan cable over to the equipment rack before I am able to use a web control feature.

I tried finding this on a general HDMI topic without success. I just picked up a 4310 from BB and am running 5 components HDMI in w 1 HDMI out running to flat screen. None of the components are 3-D. I'm using a hodgepodge of different version 2M HDMI cables.

Is there any benefit to gain from swapping into 1.4 HDMI cables? Will ethernet pass-through work if everything is run through the 4310?

I am not about the ethernet part of your question?

The other components that you have ethernet connected to to are the blu ray and the TV?

I would only run those via HDMI connections to the 4310

As for the HDMI 1.4 cables....I would say you don't need them
I am running 3D currently with some cables that are only rated 1.3
As long as the quality of your cables in good I would not think you would have an issue


Warren

@brol...

- "hdmi 1.4 cables" don't exist... there's "high speed" with and without ethernet... that's the "highest spec" available, and it's something that the hdmi org finally clarified... which will hopefully stop some of the more, ummm, questionable marketing practices of certain cable vendors (although i doubt it)...

- your existing cables should be fine for your existing setup... if they worked before, there's no reason why they shouldn't work now...

- ethernet over hdmi, while defined in the 1.4 spec, is optional, and afaik, not implemented on any consumer devices to this date... furthermore, it's a solution in search of a problem...

Just got off the phone with the Mountain View repair center that has had my 4310 since mid November to replace the failed network card.

Denon is now estimating February for the next batch of ethernet cards.

For all of you folks rushing out to gobble up the 4310s from BB and other sellers make sure you factor in when (and not if) the card fails and how long you can be without your receiver. Some of you may consider this to be low risk if you do not plan or need to use the network features but I thought that too until the source switching problem arises (another symptom of the failed card).

I am fortunate that I have my 4802 to fall back on but I am VERY disappointed with Denon on how they have handled this situation. I will probably remain very unhappy until the 4310 returns and hopefully will be fully operational when it arrives.

How are you SURE that your mains are not getting the full range signal?

Your "test" is not valid -- do you understand the difference between LFE and the other channels? When you set sub to NO the LFE gets folded into the mains.

In Tom Andry's review of the 4310 found here: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/r...r-4310ci-setup

...he says this about the video processing:

"The AVR-4310CI has the much lauded Anchor Bay VRS video processing. This is an upconversion technology that essentially makes all of your video sources look as good as possible. While you won't need it for 1080p native sources like Blu-ray, DVDs, cable TV and more will all benefit. What you want to find out is the native resolution for your display. From there, you want the AVR-4310CI to convert all video signals (sans Blu-ray) to that resolution. This will mean that your display only has to, well, display. Since chances are that the Anchor Bay VRS is way better than the scaling/upconversion of any of your sources or your display, you'll want to use that. The last step is to go into the menus of each of your sources and make sure they are outputting the native resolution. For DVDs, that is 480i. It's the same for SD cable/satellite and it is 1080i (usually) for HD. Check with your manuals for each source. The idea is that the source and the display are doing NO processing. What is especially nice about the Denon AVR-4310CI is that it allows you to set the video processing on each source individually rather than one global setting. So for your Blu-ray player you can turn it off while enabling different levels of upconversion for each device."

My display has a native resolution of 1080p. AFAIK, my U-verse DVR outputs the native resolution of whatever channel it is on. I have a Blu-Ray player, an HD-DVD player, and an Oppo DV-980H. I assume I don't have to have the 4310 do any video processing for signals coming from the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD players, but what about the Oppo? I also use it for playing CDs, DVD-As, and SACDs, and according to its manual, I should choose 720p or higher for high resolution audio.

I'd rather not have to switch the output resolution on my Oppo depending on what I'm playing on it, but would that be the only way to take advantange of its hi-rez audio capabilities and the video processing of the 4310 when I play DVDs?

Whats the deal with the network card? Should I just send mine in to be swapped out or should I be good? I plan on using ethernet.

^Congrats on your upgrade. I am quite impressed with this unit. Does your Ncard work? If like mine, it is working, I would do nothing now. I would just wait to see what develops in terms of Denon CS response while enjoying the new AVR. You have a 2 yr warranty, right? I am assuming that there are thousands of units out there with functioning gold trim Ncards after months of use.

Thanks man. And thanks for the heads up...or curses, haven't decided which yet.

I don't have mine yet. It is still sitting at BB waiting for my step-son to pick it up in the morning to be shipped to me as I had to go 2 states over to find it. And yes, I presume it has the 2 or 3 year warranty Denon offers. I just figure if I have to pay to have it shipped to me, I may as well ship to Joisy and I'll save a few bucks in the long haul.

In the meantime I am trying to learn about the 4310 as it is virtually the flagship model (I said virtually ) and I want to know what I need to do. The FW upgrade over the internet is sweet. The 789 had to be shipped to get its FW. But suddenly I read the network card has issues...anyone know what the issue is? Any other tips/tricks specific to the 4310ci I should know about?

^Don't worry, it has a great GUI/interface and you've passed Denon 101 with flying colors. It will be fun learning the new stuff. Your homework over the holiday is to review this thread in reverse order, as I'm doing. I have found little so far of concern. I think you can feel pretty darn good about this purchase. The video is delicious and the audio is the best I've had in any AVR yet. It trumps the 2809ci.

If you haven't yet, you could just verify with staff at the BB store that the unit is functioning. You may even have the newer card in yours, unless it is an older display unit like mine.

Sounds great. I am anxious! Tell me the 4310 uses the same setup mic as the 789? Or do I need to find one? The remote I don't care about as I have Harmony. Just need the damn mic.

*EDIT* YES!!! Same mic!!!

^yup good ol' DM-A409...edit, but you knew that.

[quote=
If you haven't yet, you could just verify with staff at the BB store that the unit is functioning. You may even have the newer card in yours, unless it is an older display unit like mine.[/QUOTE]

So let me summarize what I think I've learned from this thread regarding the Network Interface Card (NIC) versions.

1. If you look through the top grill (rear left corner) and see a NIC card with gold trim, that's potentially a "bad card" , meaning it has a decent (1 in 4 chance?) of failing within a year or so.

2. BUT wait: If your NIC card has the BridgeCo CPU chip with the "DM860" code, this means it's a next generation "updated" card that is more reliable (even though a white label elsewhere on the card says "CM860-3" which has been reported many times to be the code number of a "bad card"??) See quote below from Message #3102 of this thread:


...So to verify what is relevant, can someone who has removed a FAILED NIC card please report on what code was on the BridgeCo CPU chip?

I presume it is something other than "DM860" and probably "CM860"? And it would then follow that having the gold edging around the NIC card is not really the relevant issue, nor is the white label on the card that says "CM860-3". And the truly relevant issue is solely the code found inked onto the BridgeCo CPU chip that tells you if you have a "bad" (failure prone) or "updated" card. "DM860" on the chip indicating "updated". To put it another way, a gold edged card is "necessary" but "not sufficient" to indicate a failure prone card.

I guess it's also possible that if there are non gold edged cards that don't fail, these cards may have a BridgeCo (or other?) CPU that has a code on it that is different than the code found on the gold edged cards' CPU's.

--Bob

Congrats, Splicer.

I'm off to Lexington the next couple of days to see if I can't find something. Anything. (Just got my first set of 5 speakers and just need an avr already).