Modern Warfare 2...can you wait? - Page 5  

Lazy, lazy devs.

Its not lazy, its finding whats the best you can do while keeping a smooth game. Not to mention that all the stuff Ive seen so far has looked great. No complaints here.

Uhh, yea right, these guys have been busting their balls the past 2 years to make this game. 600p is just a design decision, like anything else.

Sorry, boys. Have to disagree with you. Other devs have no problem with high frame rates and 720p. And to say "they have been busting their balls the past 2 years" is a stretch. They are using the same engine as COD4, correct? The one they loaned to Treyarch for WaW, correct? It doesn't take two years to write a SP story line, and draw up some new maps.


Yes, it is a design decision that is a lazy compromise. To get it to run at 720p (god forbid 1080p) would require more work.

No HD, no dedicated servers. It's all about the Benjamins, gentlemen.

Of course, I will buy it

There's really not that many games out there running at 720p and 60fps, actually.

And running at 720p would require more than just more work, it would require sacrifices in other areas, sacrifices which the developers obviously don't think is worth it.

And really you are vastly underestimating what it takes to make a modern game. If you can't understand this, or don't believe me, I dunno what to say.

Somebody here has no idea what they are talking about.

Somewhat fortuitously, there's a good article on Eurogamer about sub-HD resolutions:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...nition-article

It goes into to explain why 1024x600 is a chosen resolution, and it is not because the developers are drinking beer instead of writing code.

Trophies:

Platinum Trophy
Earn all other trophies

Back in the Saddle
Help train the local militia.

Danger Close
Get hand picked for Shepherd's elite squad.

Cold Shoulder
Infiltrate the snowy mountain side base.

Tag em and bag em
Find Rojas in the Favelas.

Royale with Cheese
Defend Burger Town.

Soap on a Rope
Storm the gulag.

Desperate Times
Execute the plan to help the Americans.

Whiskey Hotel
Take back Whiskey Hotel.

The Pawn
Assault Makarov's safe house.

Out of the Frying Pan
Complete the mission in the airplane graveyard.

For the Record
Complete the Single Player campaign on any difficulty.

The Price of War
Complete the single player campaign on Hardened or Veteran Difficulty.

First Day of School
Complete S.S.D.D' and Team Player' on Veteran Difficulty.

Black Diamond
Complete Cliffhanger' on Veteran Difficulty.

Turistas
Complete Takedown' and The Hornet's Nest' on Veteran Difficulty.

Red Dawn
Complete Wolverines!' and Exodus' on Veteran Difficulty.

Prisoner #627
Complete The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday' and The Gulag' on Veteran Difficulty.

Ends Justify the Means
Complete Contingency' on Veteran Difficulty

Homecoming
Complete Of Their Own Accord', Second Sun', and Whiskey Hotel' on Veteran Difficulty.

Queen takes Rook
Complete Loose Ends' and The Enemy of My Enemy' on Veteran Difficulty.

Off the Grid
Complete Just Like Old Times' and Endgame' on Veteran Difficulty.

Pit Boss
Run The Pit in S.S.D.D' and finish with a final time under 30 seconds.

Ghost
Plant the C4 in Cliffhanger' without alerting or injuring anyone in the blizzard.

Colonel Sanderson
Kill 7 chickens in under 10 seconds in The Hornet's Nest'.

Gold Star
Earn 1 star in Special Ops.

Hotel Bravo
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It Goes to Eleven
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Blackjack
Earn 21 stars in Special Ops.

Honor Roll
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Operative
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Professional
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Star 69
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Downed but Not Out
Kill 4 enemies in a row while downed in Special Ops.

I'm the Juggernaut
Kill a Juggernaut in Special Ops.

Ten plus foot-mobiles
Kill at least 10 enemies with one Predator missile in Single Player or Special Ops.

Unnecessary Roughness
Use a riot shield to beat down an enemy in Single Player or Special Ops.

Knock-knock
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Some Like it Hot
Kill 6 enemies in a row using a thermal weapon in Single Player or Special Ops.

Two Birds with One Stone
Kill 2 enemies with a single bullet in Single Player or Special Ops.

The Road Less Traveled
Collect 22 enemy intel items.

Leave No Stone Unturned
Collect 45 enemy intel items.

Drive By
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The Harder They Fall
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Desperado
Kill 5 enemies in a row using 5 different weapons or attachments in Single Player or Special Ops.

Look Ma Two Hands
Kill 10 enemies in a row using akimbo weapons in Single Player or Special Ops.

No Rest For the Wary
Knife an enemy without him ever knowing you were there in Single Player or Special Ops.

Three-some
Kill at least 3 enemies with a single shot from a grenade launcher in Single Player or Special O

Good article. I read the comments and found this quote from GreatBlackThorn to be my exact sentiments on the issue of sub-HD graphics across most games of this generation:

GreatBlackThorn said: "What I find hard to understand is why the best looking games of this generation, the likes of Gears of War 2, Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2 manage to run at 720p with anti-aliasing and v-sync, yet other games that aren't pushing anywhere near the same number of effects can't manage this. It would be understandable if the very best looking games couldn't run at full 720p, and the less graphically impressive ones could, but for the reverse to be true is simply baffling."

While I'm definitely planning to get MW2 on release day and play just like most of you guys will, I'm still kind of annoyed that we're still not seeing true HD resolution support for many titles (particularly franchise titles) in this generation. Considering that MW2 is likely to end up being one of the best selling games of 2009-2010 across both the PS3 and Xbox 360, wouldn't it be possible for IW to spend the effort to further tweak the code for each hardware platform to allow for the best experience on each console? Even if it would require them to drop the minimum framerate to 40 or 50 FPS, would this really be a burden? Games like Killzone 2 and uncharted are a blast to play and have plenty of eye candy- the fact that they run at less than a stable 60FPS hardly enters your mind when you play them.

I understand that it's easier to work to a common denominator among consoles, but with the exception of the exclusives, a lot of titles seem to be falling short of the HD hype that was pushed when the 360 and PS3 were released. I guess my expectations have grown with the likes of KZ2 and Fight Night, among others. I would expect Infinity Ward and definitely Microsoft (with ODST) to be able to raise the bar graphically just as developers like Guerilla, EA, Epic, and Naughty Dog have done.

Not complaining here, just hoping that IW will see fit to change their formula a bit in the future instead of just sticking with the same resolution.

Considering last gen had very average graphics at SD resollution and 30-60fps, it's hard to expect great graphics at HD resolutions, and high framerates.


What makes you think infinity ward aren't delivering the best experience possible? Good things take time, you want 60fps, and HD res, get a PC or be prepared to wait.


Blame the manufacturers for over hyping their consoles. Seriously history show's you shouldn't believe everything they say.


There's more to graphics than resolution alone.

Actually, there were a handful of titles on the Xbox that ran at true 720p last generation. Considering that there are a lot of current low end PC graphics cards that push 720p without a hitch, and they are similar to the hardware that has ended up in consoles, plus the fact that both consoles have highly parallel CPUs under the hood, I don't think we're expecting too much.


Remember where I said that dropping the framerate would be acceptable? 60FPS doesn't equal more immersion. Killzone 2 consistently runs around 30-40fps at true 720p, and most of the FPS guys on this forum agree that it's one of the more realistic and fluid looking FPS games ever. I could go on about Uncharted, Gears 2, Fight Night etc. but I digress... Fact of the matter is that true HD can be done (with the right tradeoffs), and has been done in spectacular fashion, and even by third-party developers with less inside access to the platform (case in point EA).


I'm pretty happy overall- but like the guy I quoted from the Eurogamer discussion, things seem to be a bit backward- games with fewer graphics tweaks are getting upstaged by games with more tweaks. The deciding factor here might be that MW2 is not an exclusive and IW is not a first party developer. I'm not at all sure of the level of access IW has to the hardware developers for the PS3 (or the 360). I'm betting first-party status or greater access to the details of the platform would make more possible for either platform.


Agreed- I've already mentioned that I'd have been willing to sacrifice some of the framerate for a higher res. I think framerate performance and resolution could have been balanced differently here.

60fps provides a much better feel in response time. This is tangible and measurable (Digital Foundry did an article on that, too, recently). Clearly, IW's designers feel a fast, fluid response is a higher priority than resolution.

Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2 are fun to play, but go back to COD4/WAW and you can feel the difference in responsiveness.

I'm not even saying here that Naughty Dog or Guerilla Games are stupid and wrong and Infinity Ward is right because they are awesome and Naughty Dog sucks. I'm just saying it's a matter of priority and design.

As for 40fps or 50fps as a minimum, that's a nonstarter. Wouldn't there just be a ton of tearing? Killzone 2 runs at a mostly solid 30fps (some small dips), not 30-40fps.


I think market pressure simply makes it very hard to make one version noticeably superior. The internets explodes. This is a new thing. Even last generation, PS2 version was the baseline and Xbox would add better textures, more effects, DD 5.1 sound, etc., and nobody complained. Nowadays the goal is to make exactly the same game, which I find odd.


Quite a few games last gen ran at 60fps, even on PS2. The difference between this one and last is that last generation had hardware powerful enough to run the games, this generation does not.

I blame Kotic.

Is it really that much of a difference b/w 40 fps and 60fps on a console? I imagine in a game like cod running at 60 fps makes a difference on a PC where you play with a keyboard and a mouse and precision is really important, but with analog sticks where auto-aim is at the center of your game?? Analog sticks are not as responsive as K&M, yes games looks fluid and nice but so does other mentioned games in here where fps is nowhere near 60 and they are awesome, especially in 720p.

Yes there is a difference between 30fps and 60fps. Not just on console, but on any console, or any computing system where you can play a game. It's really as simple as that.

I saw an advertisement for this game during football yesterday and the cutscenes they showed were kind of meh. Helicopters and hummers looked really cheesy and fake, just my opinion remember...

^^

I agree. I've been less than impressed with every cut scene they have advertised. However, all the gameplay footage has looked great.

Here is the trailer: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/04/wa...are-2-trailer/

If you can adjust VSYNC this shouldn't be all that much of an issue. KZ2 has a Vsync option that you can turn on or off to your liking. And yes, you're right that the game runs at 30FPS. I don't have any issues with the responsiveness at all, though. Another trick that some of the exclusives have used is motion blur. In my opinion, used the right way, it can actually make the game feel more immersive at a lower framerate.


I find this odd too, and I remember the differences you mention about last gen's multiplatform titles on the PS2 and XBox. I'd expect that a third party developer would do the best they could to take advantage of every platform and enable bells and whistles where possible to squeak out more total sales. Maybe we'll see this happen when the development cycle gets shorter down the road (if it ever does).


Good point. But keep in mind the development learning curve also seems to be pretty steep this gen. Killzone 2, Gears 2, and Uncharted 2 may not even be the best looking titles we'll see this generation, but it might take time to get there.

"immersiveness" is a subjective thing though, but responsiveness is measurable. Check the Digital Foundry archives, there's a recent article on lag. And CoD4 is twice as responsive (at least) as Killzone 2.


I dunno. This generation is pretty old. By the fourth year people know what's up. Now some games might do this or that a little bit better thanks to tricks it uses but I don't think you will see many 360 games better looking than Gears 2 (hell Gears 2 didn't even look that much better than Gears 1) or PS3 better than Uncharted 2.

Which means it's time for new hardware soon.

The difference this generation is the PS3 and xbox are very similar in total computing power. Last gen the xbox was noticeably superior to the PS2 in raw power.


That's a really odd response. Name one game this generation that does not run?

Agreed. Go back to the PS1 era, and you'll find the original Ridge Racet ran a 30fps, and 320x240 resolution. The game was re-released towards the end of the consoles life cycle running a 640x480 res and 60 fps. Be patient and good things will come.

And Here We Go.

2 Generations ago it was pseudo 3d. Last generation ran sub SD resolutions. This generation runs sub HD resolutions.

Who cares? Not me, I'm playing some fun games! Sure, extra wizz bang boom is nice, but when it comes down to it, the GFX cold war race is just that. Marketing tripe. Good, innovative, fun games are where it's at. GFX is just the cherry on top.

Couldn't have said it better.

That game came out 4 years after psx launch. Same place in lifecycle we are in now with360. I don't think you're gonna see huge advances on this hardware and I am saying that after I read the new edge article on that stupid wardevil game.

Haven't we already seen significant graphical advances?
COD3 to COD5?
NFS Carbon to NFS Shift?
etc etc

gooki you're absolutely right. Point is that doesn't happen forever. Eventually the advances "slow down" so to speak. Based on PSX/N64 and PS2/Xbox, that happens 3-4 years after the systems come out... that's all I am saying.

I can't believe how fast the Elite editions on BOTH consoles have already sold out.

People will buy any piece of crap just because you put the word Super Limited Exclusive Collector's Item - or in this case PRESTIGE EDITION.

The fact that they pay out the ass for two-minute long commercials during football games may have something to do with it, too. The marketing for this game is nuts. It's not "Mountain Dew: Halo Edition" nuts, but it up there.

Hey guys, I can't wait for this game, but I haven't been really looking at videos or news about it so my question is, is there co-op in this game? I never played the singleplayer part of COD4 and the single player looks pretty cool this time around but I'd like to do some co-op with it. So did they do that?

I think if MW2 was a PS3 exclusive, it would run at 720p. It's hard to get things to run smoothly on 2 different platforms.

The graphics look pretty good to me. I'll be picking this up on Day 1.

I will also be getting this game on day 1, but next weeks release of Uncharted 2 will make the wait pretty damn easy.