Oppo BDP-83 Vs. Denon DVD-A1UDCI

Originally Posted by thebland

I think in today's world, it is hard to justify any Blu Ray player if 1080P24 and lossless audio is your game.... especially at $4500 compared to the very competent OPPO at $500. I have the $2K Denon 3800 and the OPPO.. they perform identically, except I paid $1500 less for the OPPO. They're all the same and if you are bitstreaming, there is no jitter. Now if you're using analog for audio, I'd stay away from a Blu Ray player altogether as there are far better dedicated CD players.

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

The Audio button may change the channel output. I'll have to hook it up and check. If so that would take care of that annoying issue from the 980H.

So the only issue left would be whether I would gain any audible improvement from the synched clocks using both Denons with the units passing Bitstream to each other, vs. no synched clocks with the Oppo Bitstream being passed...

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

I received my Oppo BDP-83 a few days ago, and I'm wondering if people think the DVD-A1UDCI is a worthwhile purchase to match with my Denon AVP-A1HDCI.

What I would gain from the Denon is a shared clock mode for BD audio and the ability to turn off the video portion of the unit (Pure Direct Mode) when I stream DSD, PCM or HD Audio.

I have a lot of concerts on BD; so the next question is important to me. Have any objective tests been done to prove that the level of jitter that is created by combining the video and audio streams on BD is audible, or is not audible, under excellent room conditions?

Also, is there any objective proof that turning off the video section when playing audio (from video discs as well as just audio discs - so I am asking two questions really) can have an audible impact, or not have an audible impact, under excellent room conditions?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by tyree91

QC, I'll throw in my $.02 since we just finished an evaluation with my Elite 09FD and my Oppo. First the Oppo is blazing fast, faster than anything we've seen including the PS3.
We are now using the players analogue out straight into the Six Shooter since the Elite in analogue trounced the Elite out HDMI into the Integra DTC-9.8. There was no comparison as I reported earlier. Here's what we saw and heard with three of us in attendance for the test, myself, the owner of Musical Fidelity here in So Cal (Top rated high end audio repair in LA) who also used to be in video production, and a fellow Audiophile who was interested in purchasing an Oppo.
First on BD Video at 1080p/24 the pictures were very close. The Elite may have been slightly more refined with a slightly better black level, but again very close. There was nothing here to justify the price difference. On SD DVD the difference was more pronounced. The Oppo had more noise, some edge enhancement and not quite as accurate colors. We all noticed these differences, but it bothered my friend with a history of video production the most.
As for analogue Audio the Elite clearly bested the Oppo in every parameter. It had more air, depth of image, better tonal and tighter bass, and a much sweeter mid-range and top end. Here is where the price of admission showed the most, it was not subtle.
Finally, because I was encouraging my audiophile friend to go BD and I think the Oppo is unchallenged in its price range we took it over to his house to see how it faired as a CD transport. We compared it to his Theta Carmen over SP/DIF. Now I expected the two to be fairly close on digital audio, particularly since we were running the digital into a Theta CB III which re-clocks the signal with its "Jitter Jail." I had pretty much convinced my friend that he could go BD with the Oppo and use it as a CD transport and sell the Carmen and probably make a few bucks on the deal. This was a great concept, except the Oppo didn't hold up its end of the bargain. The Carmen was much sweeter, with way more air and dimension. My friend said he just couldn't pull the trigger given the difference. He would not live without the Carmen in this comparison, and I had to agree. So much for Bits is Bits. The difference as digital music transports was easy for all to hear.
This brings me to an observation I've been getting more comfortable with, and that is a top BD player with great analogue outs may just best an HDMI audio out to a processor. In my experience none of the HDMI processors I've heard has been able to best the Elite with its analogue outs in SQ. I'm not sure if we just need better HDMI pre/pros or if HDMI is an inherently inferior audio transfer protocol. I'm beginning to lean toward the latter. Some of the new HDMI pre/pros may help settle this question. However, a close friend was discussing this with the former owner and head designer of Kinergitics and Chiro, and he said the jitter on HDMI is so bad that it will not under its current incarnation do a decent job of transferring audio data.
Hopefully this helps in your quest for a BD player. Assuming the Denon is as good as the Elite for Audio and you can use it for DSD & DVD-A I would say go for it, especially since it is copacetic with your other Denon gear. Good decision making. Regards, Norm

Originally Posted by AV-OCD

Usually, good jitter performance is considered anything below 300 psecs. And below 150 psecs is considered world class. I had to re-read the 10 psec jitter performance of the SSP-800 in the HFN review several times just to make sure that it wasn't a typo. 10 psecs?! That is simply ground breaking. It's the first time I've ever seen a result that low.

There's a good deal of debate as to whether jitter has much of an audible effect on sound, I've been paying a lot of attention to jitter since moving from the CDP-300 to a Mac Mini. When it comes to transports, there are really only two things to worry about. Whether or not the output is "bit-perfect" and the jitter levels. It's not too difficult it seems to achieve bit-perfect output from a PC, but jitter levels can be rather high so you need a DAC that is good at rejecting it--like the SSP-800. Based on the test results on HFN, it's no wonder I heard no difference between the CDP-300 and the Mac Mini.

A quick comparison:

The jitter spectrum of the SSP-800 from HFN:


And now the CDP-202 from Stereophile:


An ideal graph would be a single spike at the test frequency in the center, with no spikes to the left or right. It is plain to see how much cleaner the SSP-800 jitter graph is than the CDP-202. The comparison is not completely apples to apples because I believe the HFN and Stereophile tests are slightly different, but they should be close enough.

I'd like to mention one more tidbit from the HFN review that pretty much sums up my experience with it.

"incredibly refined, yet at the same time revealing..."

I just have to say again that until I heard the SSP-800, I thought that most prepros sounded more or less the same, and there was a small part of me that thought I might have been hearing what I want to hear, but after seeing that the comments in HFN line up almost perfectly with my impressions, I'm confident now that the SSP-800 is a clear step-up in sound quality from the Lexicon MC12HD that I owned prior to it. The Lex had a grain and etch to the top end that is completely absent in the 800. The grain and etch can give the false impression of detail (like edge enhancement on TV), but the 800 has more real resolution and a much more natural sound.

Bravo Classe!

Cheers,

- Tim

Originally Posted by tyree91

This was a great concept, except the Oppo didn't hold up its end of the bargain. The Carmen was much sweeter, with way more air and dimension. My friend said he just couldn't pull the trigger given the difference. He would not live without the Carmen in this comparison, and I had to agree. So much for Bits is Bits. The difference as digital music transports was easy for all to hear.
This brings me to an observation I've been getting more comfortable with, and that is a top BD player with great analogue outs may just best an HDMI audio out to a processor. In my experience none of the HDMI processors I've heard has been able to best the Elite with its analogue outs in SQ. I'm not sure if we just need better HDMI pre/pros or if HDMI is an inherently inferior audio transfer protocol. I'm beginning to lean toward the latter.

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

So far no one has posted any objective data showing that the jitter levels in a normal HDMI player like the Oppo is inaudible compared to one with significantly less jitter. Does anyone know what amount of jitter a player like the Oppo introduces as well as what the proven threshold for audible jitter is?

Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn

Has anyone shown that it is audible ?

Art

Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn


Who here has the 83 ?

art